Does it really matter what over all grade you graduate with?

DeadMoney

Hey, what do you really think the true significance of getting something like a 1:1 or 2:1 in your final year is? Everybody seems very hung up on getting at least a 2:1 and it seems that anything below this is almost like failing in some peoples eyes. I understand people wanting the personal gratification of leaving college with a high grade and of course I'd like this myself but does it really make a difference in the grand scale of things? I mean degrees are so bloody common nowadays, surely your over all grade in final year isn't gonna be the sole determinant in your future success?

I have heard that for certain companies (particularly business degree related) a minimum of a 2:1 is required to get a job. Also I'm aware that to do some further studies such as a masters there is also a minimum grade requirement. But for somebody who is not looking to apply to a company in Ireland or do a masters next year, does this still affect your possibilities. It seems to me like while it definitely is a positive thing to have a good over all grade, its importance is largely exaggerated. I mean I can't really picture some employer a few years down the line in some other country going ''oh wait it says here you only got a 2:2 in DCU back in 2011, sorry no go''. I dunno maybe I'm wrong and it is this important. Anyone care to offer their views?

Will

Depends what you want to do. If you plan on going on to do a masters you would want decent grades. The jobs scene at the minute is kinda funny, most places want a degree and a minimum 2.1 or whatever but also want a few years experience on top of that. Something a new grad just doesn't have.

johnmcdnl

well when your going for a job in another country aren't they going to look at your grades before giving you a job ????

cocoa

speaking as a final year student myself, I definitely want as high a grade as possible. From an employer's perspective, a 1.1 means you probably have at least a reasonable grasp of all the content advertised as part of your course, a 2.1 means an ok grasp, anything below that, well how much do you actually know if you only scraped through?

Wudyaquit

Yes, it matters.
Do a search on Irishjobs for whatever type of job you want and guaranteed at least a few of them won't even look at you with less than a 2.1. I'm not sure it has much benefit beyond getting an interview, but in the current climate, that counts for a lot. Some of the best jobs in any industry will require it.
Can't really comment on when you're abroad, but again, if they have a similar third level system to here, it can only benefit you.
You've pretty much answered your own question - degrees are so bloody common, that having a mediocre one doesn't count for a lot.
I will say though that some of those courses that demand a 2.1, will accept a 2.2 if you have experience.

professore

cocoa wrote: »

speaking as a final year student myself, I definitely want as high a grade as possible. From an employer's perspective, a 1.1 means you probably have at least a reasonable grasp of all the content advertised as part of your course, a 2.1 means an ok grasp, anything below that, well how much do you actually know if you only scraped through?

Back in the early 90's job market a 1 meant you wouldn't get interviewed as you were perceived as "too academic". A 2.2 or lower got your CV in the bin. Only a 2.1 sufficed.

cocoa

professore wrote: »

Back in the early 90's job market a 1 meant you wouldn't get interviewed as you were perceived as "too academic". A 2.2 or lower got your CV in the bin. Only a 2.1 sufficed.

I can't say for sure of course but I wager a 1 would have been accepted for the top jobs whereas the more standard positions would have avoided it. At any rate, thankfully for me, the climate has now changed and a 1, in my experience any way, is welcomed by employers.

c0rk3r

DeadMoney wrote: »

But for somebody who is not looking to apply to a company in Ireland or do a masters next year, does this still affect your possibilities. It seems to me like while it definitely is a positive thing to have a good over all grade, its importance is largely exaggerated.

No one here can say for certain if having a 2:1 or 1:1 over a 2:2 will hinder your chances of employment abroad. Logic would tell use that a potential employer would chose a 1:1 over a 2:2 but thats not always the case. 1:1 screams anti-social interspective nerd and can put employers of. Your selling yourself as a whole, aswell as your degree you'll need various interpersonal skills, an ability to work to deadlines, ability to cope with stress and such nonsense. Its all dependent on what the employer wants. Someone could see "runner" under hobbies and offer you an interview on that basis, could be that they're a keen marathon runner. Who knows

Good luck on your travels. Its tough going here as a graduate at the moment, few opportunities and huge competition from not only other graduates but experienced people who;ve been laid off. I think youre making the right choice

Wudyaquit

c0rk3r wrote: »

1:1 screams anti-social interspective nerd and can put employers of. Your selling yourself as a whole, aswell as your degree you'll need various interpersonal skills, an ability to work to deadlines, ability to cope with stress and such nonsense.

I have to disagree. 1.1 is now a lot more achievable than it used to be with a lot more people getting it than 20 years ago, so isnt the sole domain of interspective nerds as you put it.

An employer will give an interview to someone at this level more readily than someone on any other degree - weeding out antisocial nerds is part of what the interview process is about. Having a poorer quality degree isn't much of an indicator that that person is better able to cope with stress or meet deadlines.

Choc123

Dead Money I actually agree with you. I am on the verge of getting a 1.1 in my degree but if I was on a low 2.1 it probably would have made no difference to me.
I sorted out a paid intra off the system and my employer didn't ask once what my grades were - I was judged on my already gained industry experience and more importantly my persona and individual characteristics. But of course for other employers and industries grades are everything.

Darren1o1

I think the general consensus (in engineering) is that your first degree (and whatever minor experience you have) gets your first job. Your degree and first job, get your second job. After your second job, your degree grade is often not important. I received a 2.2 and had no problem find work in the US (even after grades were translated and assessed). I also had no problem getting interviewed for grad programs (even when 1.1 students did not) in Ireland and the main reason for this was I had worked extra hard to get two or three internships.

Also often grades are course specific, some seem to have a higher/lower on others.

DeadMoney

From a home perspective I think getting at least a 2:1 is definitely important as our country is completely ****ed and its survival of the fittest to put it bluntly. However on an international scale and speaking from what I have seen of my friends in other parts of the world, their grade didn't matter. One of my friends got the top grade in his year 3 years ago and was given an award by the college at graduation. His current employer which is a large multi national didn't even request a copy of his degree. That is obviously just one example and I assume at the very least most employers will look for some sort of proof that you actually did a degree but I think internationally for the most part it is not important. What is important is how you come across in interview, your relevant skills, experience etc. I just think people place far too much stock in it and whether you got a 2:2 or a 1:1 you still completed an honors degree and got through 3 or 4 years of University. **** that has to stand for something.

myk

sorry to be a pedant, but it isn't called a 1.1, it is a first, after that 2.1 and 2.2.

SparkyTech

Employers look for your overall work experience and personality, the academic piece of paper is only one component of that. Yes, you need a decent degree grade (2.2, imo) as a minimum to show you put in a bit of effort into your coursework, but in the grand scheme of things, getting hung up on a 1.1 shouldn't be the bee all and end all of your carearr.

Lots of places home and abroad will accept you for masters with a 2.1 or a 2.2

amen

well how much do you actually know if you only scraped through?

Back in the early 90's job market a 1 meant you wouldn't get interviewed as you were perceived as "too academic". A 2.2 or lower got your CV in the bin. Only a 2.1 sufficed.

I just don't know where to start.

I graduated from DCU in 1994 with based on the above comments is a lowly 2.2.

Of course of the 60+ who started my course in 1990 only 20 graduated, 2 with 1.1s (one who stayed to do a PhD, the other who got a job after 3 months) 4 2.1s and the rest had 2.2s with 1-2 passes.

I have never had a problem getting a job with a 2.2 in fact I was first person in my class to get an Intra Job, first person in class to get job after final exams( degree related). My 2.2 has never held me back.

Of course with what seems to be recent grad inflatation everyone seems to have a 2.1/1.1 and it now appears you need a master to tell who knows what and even then the only way to know is to ask questions at interview.

Grades with recent graduates does not seem to match the calibre of the graduate.

In my mind anyone with a 2.2 is worth an interview. No point in having book smarts if you can't answer basic problems in interviews or explain a point to someone.

jennyq

I find it hard to believe any decent company would disregard a graduate solely on the basis their grades were too high. It'd be absurd to assume anyone who gets a 1st is inept at everything but studying. I don't think I'd want to work for any company that was so narrow-minded tbh!

amen

not sure if this

I find it hard to believe any decent company would disregard a graduate solely on the basis their grades were too high

relates to my post but we do higher 1.1s. Just saying we also interview those with 2.2 and 2.1s. We don't discount anyone because of their grade.

jennyq

Nope that wasn't a direct reply to you at all amen, that idea had just been mentioned a couple of times over the thread.

Tree

jennyq wrote: »

I find it hard to believe any decent company would disregard a graduate solely on the basis their grades were too high. It'd be absurd to assume anyone who gets a 1st is inept at everything but studying. I don't think I'd want to work for any company that was so narrow-minded tbh!

I have spoken to people who say they would prefer to hire a 2.1 over a first, as the firsts arent always equipped to deal very well w/ failure. Not that they wouldn't hire firsts, but they'd have to demo some non-academic ability to cope with stuff going wrong.

myk

Tree wrote: »

I have spoken to people who say they would prefer to hire a 2.1 over a first, as the firsts arent always equipped to deal very well w/ failure. Not that they wouldn't hire firsts, but they'd have to demo some non-academic ability to cope with stuff going wrong.

Sounds like a poor approach to hiring. You can have poor non-academic ability to cope and deal badly with failure no matter what academic results you get.

I'm guessing the people taking such an approach were not academic high flyers themselves

DeadMoney

From my own guess I'd imagine more 'routine' or 'automatic' professions like auditing would justify the selection process of potential applicants by their grade more than some other professions. No offence to any accountants but I don't think the job really requires any specific personality traits or special skills and people who have performed well in college and seems well balanced will be more than suitable for these jobs. So in a case like this where you have lots of similar types of people going for a job and the specifications are not too broad, then I could see how companies would take grades in to major consideration.

My problem is that everyone I talk to in college seems to have developed this idea that this relates to every job they will go for and I think it is a serious misconception of the work force and is pretty naive imo. Also I think anyone who places too much stock on the difference between a 2:1 and first, or even a pass for that matter is delusional. It is merely an indication of the effort somebody put in to their college exams and in most cases has no bearing on somebody's actual intelligence or suitability. I mean we all know people who are 'book smart' but dumb as **** in other areas of life.

But yeah definitely a positive thing to have a higher grade on your CV no doubt and in some cases it may very well be a deciding factor in being selected for a job (seriously doubt it would be the sole basis for selection), however the overall perception of its true importance is completely overblown I think.

cocoa

I think the effect of the grade is hard to measure and varies widely dependant on the industry and the individual business. But as a general rule, it's part of a CV and it's about getting an interview. The degree (of whatever grade) may get you to interview, but it's your whole package, with your actual skills and personality, that will get you hired. The effect of the degree will also lessen, of course, as time passes and experience takes precedence. The problem is, if you're up against a lot of people, it may be a struggle to get to the interview stage where, maybe, you would get the chance to outshine other candidates.

I don't understand why anyone would deliberately aim for a grade lower then they were capable of. If I saw two candidates, otherwise identical, one of which had a lower grade, I would hire the one with the higher grade. Either the lower grade was due to less effort (not intelligence or ability) and I want someone who has proven they'll work harder, or the lower grade was due to less intelligence / ability and I want someone better. No two candidates are identical and no two universities are identical, so it's not easy for employers, but I'd be highly surprised if it wasn't a factor for getting to interview, after that probably not so much...

InReality

Yes and No.

Yes, in that some jobs will use a grade as a culling mechanism when going through CV's.

No in that it usually only applies to your first one or 2 jobs , in that other jobs a specific grade is not used as a cut off , and that Masters programmes are often more flexible about taking people on with 2.2 or lower than you might expect.

I got on to a masters programme with a Pass in my primary degree.
Granted it was 6 years after that degree , and I had done other course since then , but the "offical" requirements would have made me a very long shot.

In summary your right to be skeptical.

KenHy

I find this discussion quite odd, of course it matters, it's one of many things an employer will look at. The weighting it gets will of course differ from job to job, as many have said the more experience you have the less important the degree (and it's grade) becomes, nonetheless it's always better to have a 1.1 than a 2.1 and so on.

amen

I find this discussion quite odd, of course it matters, it's one of many things an employer will look at. The weighting it gets will of course differ from job to job, as many have said the more experience you have the less important the degree (and it's grade) becomes, nonetheless it's always better to have a 1.1 than a 2.1 and so on.

not when it a lot of recent graduates all have 2.1 or 1.1s

cocoa

amen wrote: »

not when it a lot of recent graduates all have 2.1 or 1.1s

surely that's exactly when it matters? When lots of applicants have 1.1s, it's less likely someone with a 2.1 will be called for interview, I would imagine.

XPS

DeadMoney wrote: »

Hey, what do you really think the true significance of getting something like a 1:1 or 2:1 in your final year is? Everybody seems very hung up on getting at least a 2:1 and it seems that anything below this is almost like failing in some peoples eyes. I understand people wanting the personal gratification of leaving college with a high grade and of course I'd like this myself but does it really make a difference in the grand scale of things? I mean degrees are so bloody common nowadays, surely your over all grade in final year isn't gonna be the sole determinant in your future success?

I have heard that for certain companies (particularly business degree related) a minimum of a 2:1 is required to get a job. Also I'm aware that to do some further studies such as a masters there is also a minimum grade requirement. But for somebody who is not looking to apply to a company in Ireland or do a masters next year, does this still affect your possibilities. It seems to me like while it definitely is a positive thing to have a good over all grade, its importance is largely exaggerated. I mean I can't really picture some employer a few years down the line in some other country going ''oh wait it says here you only got a 2:2 in DCU back in 2011, sorry no go''. I dunno maybe I'm wrong and it is this important. Anyone care to offer their views?

Read: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0527/1224297853362.html

Extract:

MOST EMPLOYERS are now demanding that graduate recruits hold a 2:1 honours degree, according to a new survey.

The survey of 79 leading employers also highlights “serious shortfalls” in the communication and writing skills of Irish graduates.

The employers surveyed by gradireland – the graduate careers service – include virtually all of the major accounting and consulting companies, as well as the likes of Intel, Diageo, the Kerry Group and Facebook.

It finds that the average starting salary for new graduates is about €24,000 to €25,000. More than 16 per cent of companies surveyed said they had no plans to recruit graduates this year because of the economic downturn.

Kavrocks

XPS wrote: »

MOST EMPLOYERS are now demanding that graduate recruits hold a 2:1 honours degree, according to a new survey.

The survey of 79 leading employers also highlights “serious shortfalls” in the communication and writing skills of Irish graduates.

The employers surveyed by gradireland – the graduate careers service – include virtually all of the major accounting and consulting companies, as well as the likes of Intel, Diageo, the Kerry Group and Facebook.

It finds that the average starting salary for new graduates is about €24,000 to €25,000. More than 16 per cent of companies surveyed said they had no plans to recruit graduates this year because of the economic downturn.

Only today I recieved an email about a job offer and 1 of the key requirements was that you had a 2:1 honours degree.

XPS

Kavrocks wrote: »

Only today I recieved an email about a job offer and 1 of the key requirements was that you had a 2:1 honours degree.

Indeed. I've seen some strange questions asked on this site, but this is up there with the best of them. Of course it matters.

Lost Arrow

Is it possible to reject your degree grade and repeat final year in hope of a better grade in DCU?(Just curious,I know someone in Maynooth who rejected a 2.2,then repeated final year to get a 2.1):eek:

cocoa

Lost Arrow wrote: »

Is it possible to reject your degree grade and repeat final year in hope of a better grade in DCU?(Just curious,I know someone in Maynooth who rejected a 2.2,then repeated final year to get a 2.1):eek:

No, you get one chance and there is no such thing as an 'elective repeat'. If you fail something, you can repeat it but it will not change your overall grade.

mehfesto

cocoa wrote: »

No, you get one chance and there is no such thing as an 'elective repeat'. If you fail something, you can repeat it but it will not change your overall grade.

Do they still do interviews for those people very close to the First grade? Two of the people in my part-time workplace had interviews to bump their grade up in an interview if they were less than 3% off a First. Two of them got it. None went to DCU though...

cocoa

mehfesto wrote: »

Do they still do interviews for those people very close to the First grade? Two of the people in my part-time workplace had interviews to bump their grade up in an interview if they were less than 3% off a First. Two of them got it. None went to DCU though...

I can't speak for other schools but I know in electronic engineering the external examiner will ask to interview students near a grade boundary. Their decision will usually be based on the final year project and the interview, I don't have any specific information on how near the boundary the student would need to be, I know my class were all informed of this practice and advised to make ourselves available while the external examiner is visiting.