Macbook pro 2010 v 2011

!MAVERICK!

Hi guys, Was just wondering if you could help me make a big decision on whether to purchase a brand new 13 inch Macbook pro for € 1120 or a refurbished 15 inch Macbook Pro for € 1270.

I dont want to use the machine for games, just to be able to play Xplane or Flight simulator on Windows smoothly.

Heres the specs between the two.

Macbook Pro 15" 2010 Refurbised - € 1270

Processor 2.4GHz Intel Core i5
Cache 3MB shared L3 cache
Memory 4GB (two 2GB) of 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM
Graphics Intel HD Graphics5 and NVIDIA GeForce GT 330M with automatic graphics switching
Hard disk drive1 320GB Serial ATA, 5400 rpm
Optical drive 8x double-layer SuperDrive (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
Wireless AirPort Extreme (802.11n)4 Bluetooth 2.1 + EDR (Enhanced Data Rate)
Expansion Two USB 2.0 ports, one FireWire 800 port, one SD card slot
Video and Audio iSight camera; Mini DisplayPort output port with support for DVI, VGA, dual-link DVI, and HDMI (requires adapters, sold separately)

Stereo speakers with subwoofers, omnidirectional microphone, audio line in minijack (digital/analog), audio line out/headphone minijack (digital/analog)
Size and weight Height: .95 inches (2.41 cm)
Width: 14.35 inches (36.4 cm)
Depth: 9.82 inches (24.9 cm)
Weight (standard configuration): 5.6 pounds (2.54 kg)3


MacBook Pro 13″ 2011 – €1120

2.3GHz Dual Core i5 CPU
320GB 5400 rpm hard drive
4GB RAM at 1333MHz
Intel HD 3000 GPU
1280×800 screen resolution

Also note the new 2011 models have
Facetime HD Camera and thunderbolt ports

Sad Professor

The 15-inch is obviously better. The separate graphics card being the main reason (integrated Intel graphics suck). Aside from that there's not a lot between them. The Thunderbolt port on the newer 13-inch model is the only thing you'd really be missing out on. However, your preferred screen size and whether you think it's worth the extra should probably be the deciding factor.

!MAVERICK!

Sad Professor wrote: »

The 15-inch is obviously better. The separate graphics card being the main reason (integrated Intel graphics suck). Aside from that there's not a lot between them. The Thunderbolt port on the newer 13-inch model is the only thing you'd really be missing out on. However, your preferred screen size and whether you think it's worth the extra should probably be the deciding factor.

I researched the intel hd 3000 and its not as bad as most people think it is. It can handle games quickly at low to medium settings sometimes even quicker in certain games than the previous model.

Im only gona be using the macboook for flight simulator so I wont be playing chart games.

But apart from the graphics card do you think the new 2011 13 inch is a better buy than the refurbished 15" (150 euro difference). Like taking into account that its new, fresh, new sandybridge processor, might last longer? I dont know this is my first mac.

I know Apple completely redo the outer case on all refurbished models but will the battery and other parts be second hand as-well if I go refurbished?

Greentree_uk

two reasons I would go with 13" are thunderbolt and SATA 3. I'd rather go for a 15" 2011 though.

!MAVERICK!

Greentree_uk wrote: »

two reasons I would go with 13" are thunderbolt and SATA 3. I'd rather go for a 15" 2011 though.

The 2011 15 inch version is priced at 1800 though. Its pretty much identical to the 2010 model apart from the thunderbolt and amd graphics card.

Sad Professor

!MAVERICK! wrote: »

I researched the intel hd 3000 and its not as bad as most people think it is. It can handle games quickly at low to medium settings sometimes even quicker in certain games than the previous model.

It's the drivers rather than performance that I'd be worried about. It's been the main problem with them in the past. But you aren't doing any major gaming so it's probably not an issue.

But apart from the graphics card do you think the new 2011 13 inch is a better buy than the refurbished 15" (150 euro difference). Like taking into account that its new, fresh, new sandybridge processor, might last longer? I dont know this is my first mac.

I know Apple completely redo the outer case on all refurbished models but will the battery and other parts be second hand as-well if I go refurbished?

I wouldn't let the fact that it's a refurb put you off. They come with the same warranty as a new machine. And they aren't second hand. Most of the time they are new machines that people didn't want. You get a discount because you are taking a risk: there might be a few physical imperfections or you might get a lemon. But there's just as much chance of either happening with a new machine. I got a brand new MBP with a dent in the case, and Apple were selling new iMacs for ages (probably still are) with huge yellow stains on the screen. The only difference between buying refurb and buying new is that you can't moan as much if you have to return it. In some cases they probably go through more testing than the new machines.

Unless you have a particular need for Thunderbolt, SATA3, HD iSight, etc, then I still say the screen size should be deciding factor. The 13-inch is perfectly large and far more portable than the 15-inch imo. I like portability so if it was me I'd probably get the 13-inch.

!MAVERICK!

Sad Professor wrote: »

It's the drivers rather than performance that I'd be worried about. It's been the main problem with them in the past. But you aren't doing any major gaming so it's probably not an issue.


I wouldn't let the fact that it's a refurb put you off. They come with the same warranty as a new machine. And they aren't second hand. Most of the time they are new machines that people didn't want. You get a discount because you are taking a risk: there might be a few physical imperfections or you might get a lemon. But there's just as much chance of either happening with a new machine. I got a brand new MBP with a dent in the case, and Apple were selling new iMacs for ages (probably still are) with huge yellow stains on the screen. The only difference between buying refurb and buying new is that you can't moan as much if you have to return it. In some cases they probably go through more testing than the new machines.

Unless you have a particular need for Thunderbolt, SATA3, HD iSight, etc, then I still say the screen size should be deciding factor. The 13-inch is perfectly large and far more portable than the 15-inch imo. I like portability so if it was me I'd probably get the 13-inch.

So if I went for the refurbished one... What could I expect from it, will the battery be used much. I absolutely dont want any cosmetic damage. And they said it was released on April 2010, so will it just be sitting there for a year? or should it be perfectly ok without a scratch?

On screen size im using a 10 inch netbook at the moment and have no problem with vision at all. So 13 inches should be more than enough for me.

Ive a week to decide to ill make my mind up then.

Sad Professor

!MAVERICK! wrote: »

So if I went for the refurbished one... What could I expect from it, will the battery be used much. I absolutely dont want any cosmetic damage. And they said it was released on April 2010, so will it just be sitting there for a year? or should it be perfectly ok without a scratch?

Battery should be perfect. If it's not send it back. It should function just like a new machine. Damage shouldn't be accepted either. Just to be clear again - refurbs are NOT second hand. See Apple's FAQ here.

Current Macbook Pros were only release in February, so they were still making this model up until a couple of months ago. Previous gen models are only available on the refurb store for a short time after the new models are released, so they are all fairly new.

holystungun9

Sad Professor wrote: »

Battery should be perfect. If it's not send it back. It should function just like a new machine. Damage shouldn't be accepted either. Just to be clear again - refurbs are NOT second hand. See Apple's FAQ here.

Current Macbook Pros were only release in February, so they were still making this model up until a couple of months ago. Previous gen models are only available on the refurb store for a short time after the new models are released, so they are all fairly new.

Crap, i have been watching the refurb store like the op weighing up a refurb 15 or getting the new 13. For the last two days, the apple websites have said, no refurb items available, wasn't showing macbooks, pros, imacs at all. Is this what you are referring to? Strange that it is not just the macbook pros that aren't available. While I still hadn't made my decision for sure, I'll be a bit annoyed if my chance of a reduced price 15 is gone.:mad:

Sad Professor

Refurb store gets updated around midnight so it goes empty for a while. Is that what you mean?

!MAVERICK!

holystungun9 wrote: »

Crap, i have been watching the refurb store like the op weighing up a refurb 15 or getting the new 13. For the last two days, the apple websites have said, no refurb items available, wasn't showing macbooks, pros, imacs at all. Is this what you are referring to? Strange that it is not just the macbook pros that aren't available. While I still hadn't made my decision for sure, I'll be a bit annoyed if my chance of a reduced price 15 is gone.:mad:

I noticed that myself, Still cant decide on whether to spend the 150 extra on a refurbished 15 inch or buy the new 13 inch. Wont have the money til wednesday. Id say there will be more up tomorrow. Let me know if you purchase one.

holystungun9

yes, I see it's all back up again today. I have a 13 and I love it as my personal computer. I want a second to keep as a dedicated music machine for Traktor and all my music files for djing. A 15 would be nice but now I am thinking of getting a new 13 as my personal computer and repurpose my older one for music. Looking at putting an SSD drive in and removing optical drive to reposition the original hd for my music files.I have one more big bill to pay out this month and then I'll see if i can pull the trigger on the new 13. I know, I've little to be worrying about!

whiterebel

Sad Professor wrote: »

Battery should be perfect. If it's not send it back. It should function just like a new machine. Damage shouldn't be accepted either. Just to be clear again - refurbs are NOT second hand. See Apple's FAQ here.

Current Macbook Pros were only release in February, so they were still making this model up until a couple of months ago. Previous gen models are only available on the refurb store for a short time after the new models are released, so they are all fairly new.

"They are in 100% working condition, and are then sold as refurbished product. As these refurbished products have been unpacked and manipulated, they might however exhibit some minor cosmetic imperfection, such as scratches, marks or discolorations."

Accruing to Apple, some cosmetic damage may be there. They certainly don't change casings for no reason as the OP suggests, I think you're getting mixed up with iPads.

!MAVERICK!

whiterebel wrote: »

Accruing to Apple, some cosmetic damage may be there. They certainly don't change casings for no reason as the OP suggests, I think you're getting mixed up with iPads.

If there are scratches, scuff marks, dents etc on the case. Apple Will replace the whole casing. If the case is still in perfect condition from the previous user, apple will still professionally clean it out or repaint it.

If the keyboard has superficial wear on the keys, they will replace the whole keyboard.

If there is any part on the laptop that does not look like new, Apple will replace it before selling it in the refurb shop.

In the end, they make sure all the hardware is in working order twice and conduct a quality audit on the cosmetics. Finally they repackage the macbook pro just like a new one in plastic, apart from the elegant box the new ones are shipped in.

But IMO if you were shipped a refurbished macbook pro in a new box you would not be able to tell the difference between them.

Check all the unboxings of the refurbished macbook pros on YouTube and tell me if you find one with cosmetic imperfections.

barryj

I've bought many refurb models and none have had the slightest mark on them. Don't forget you have 14 days to return any item if you decide you don't want it.

- barry

yer man!

Bought a 13" macbook pro last nov and just last week the hard drive failed. Under warranty so Apple are replacing it for free. Really nice laptop to use though, never had a problem up until now. I'm hoping they'll upgrade the HD to 320gig for free from the 250 gig thats in it doubtful tho

!MAVERICK!

barryj wrote: »

I've bought many refurb models and none have had the slightest mark on them. Don't forget you have 14 days to return any item if you decide you don't want it.

- barry

Yeah thats another factor that appealed to me in buying a mac. So when I order mine tomorrow, and for some reason I want to return it, does it matter if I opened it and will I have to pay postage costs? Whats the deal will a man come and collect it?

barryj

!MAVERICK! wrote: »

Yeah thats another factor that appealed to me in buying a mac. So when I order mine tomorrow, and for some reason I want to return it, does it matter if I opened it and will I have to pay postage costs? Whats the deal will a man come and collect it?

It doesn't matter if you've opened it - just make sure you don't damage or lose anything and keep all the packing.

You just call Apple, and they'll have the courier call you to arrange a day for collection. No cost to you.

- barry

!MAVERICK!

yer man! wrote: »

Bought a 13" macbook pro last nov and just last week the hard drive failed. Under warranty so Apple are replacing it for free. Really nice laptop to use though, never had a problem up until now. I'm hoping they'll upgrade the HD to 320gig for free from the 250 gig thats in it doubtful tho

Chance your arm and ask them to bump you up to the 320 for the inconvenience. Its worth a shot.

!MAVERICK!

barryj wrote: »

It doesn't matter if you've opened it - just make sure you don't damage or lose anything and keep all the packing.

You just call Apple, and they'll have the courier call you to arrange a day for collection. No cost to you.

- barry

Great that puts my mind at peace, thanks Barry.

whiterebel

!MAVERICK! wrote: »

If there are scratches, scuff marks, dents etc on the case. Apple Will replace the whole casing. If the case is still in perfect condition from the previous user, apple will still professionally clean it out or repaint it.

If the keyboard has superficial wear on the keys, they will replace the whole keyboard.

If there is any part on the laptop that does not look like new, Apple will replace it before selling it in the refurb shop.

In the end, they make sure all the hardware is in working order twice and conduct a quality audit on the cosmetics.

The reason most are perfect is because they are unwanted returns within the 14 days, or D.O.A. within 28 days, meaning in most instances they don't get a chance to scuff keyboards or get damaged. It wouldn't be economical to replace the expensive casing for no reason, and they cover themselves for This in their T&Cs as I quoted above

!MAVERICK!

whiterebel wrote: »

The reason most are perfect is because they are unwanted returns within the 14 days, or D.O.A. within 28 days, meaning in most instances they don't get a chance to scuff keyboards or get damaged. It wouldn't be economical to replace the expensive casing for no reason, and they cover themselves for This in their T&Cs as I quoted above

I never said they replace every single returned macbook. Your right on the unwanted returned macbooks within 14 days though. But if there was noticeable cosmetic damage on the returned product they will replace the part. And at the price your paying for a mac I dont think Apple will worry about replacing another casing or another sheet of glass for a screen or a few bits of plastic for a new keyboard.

whiterebel

!MAVERICK! wrote: »

I never said they replace every single returned macbook. Your right on the unwanted returned macbooks within 14 days though. But if there was noticeable cosmetic damage on the returned product they will replace the part. And at the price your paying for a mac I dont think Apple will worry about replacing another casing or another sheet of glass for a screen or a few bits of plastic for a new keyboard.

Sorry, it sounded like it to me: "I know Apple completely redo the outer case on all refurbished models but will the battery and other parts be second hand as-well if I go refurbished? ".

I worked in Apple, and know many machines failed again after "testing", and returned because people didn't like having marks and scuffs on the casing. Doesn't stop me buying refurb, indeed my last 13" MBP is from the refurb store, but I wouldn't set unrealistic expectations either.

opinion guy

Sad Professor wrote: »

You get a discount because you are taking a risk: there might be a few physical imperfections or you might get a lemon.

Actually the reason you get a discount is because its technically a second hand product. Its illegal for them to sell as new - even if they have never been used before. As you point out they are probably more tested than a non-refurb'ed model.


I bought a refurbed Acer before. When it arrived there was writing on the box saying "No Ram". Bascially it had been shipped out to either a shop or a customer with no ram installed. So it was returned and then sold on as a refurb

!MAVERICK!

whiterebel wrote: »

I worked in Apple, and know many machines failed again after "testing", and returned because people didn't like having marks and scuffs on the casing. Doesn't stop me buying refurb, indeed my last 13" MBP is from the refurb store, but I wouldn't set unrealistic expectations either.

What did you do in Apple? as far as I can recall they are not based in Ireland. They used to have an international call center in Cork but nothing major. The closest apple establishment in Ireland is the apple store in Belfast. All of their bases are subcontracted to multiple countries in either the US, Taiwan, China, Germany and Korea.

And what you mean unrealistic expectations? what I said is the truth and thats coming from people who purchased refurbished models. My brother purchased a refurbed pro last year and he managed to convince me it was brand new until I saw his bill. My brother in law did the same and actually brainwashed one of his mates into buying off him for just a € 100 off retail price. Like I said before, have a gander at some of the recent macbook refurbished un-boxings on YouTube and tell me if you find a scratch on one.

ryanmatty

!MAVERICK! wrote: »

What did you do in Apple? as far as I can recall they are not based in Ireland. They used to have an international call center in Cork but nothing major. The closest apple establishment in Ireland is the apple store in Belfast. All of their bases are subcontracted to multiple countries in either the US, Taiwan, China, Germany and Korea.

Well you don't know that much about apple in Ireland so if thats your view. Apple have a massive facility based in North Cork. It employs over 2000 people at present which is far from "nothing major" as you have stated. Apple have been in Ireland since the early 80's and is at present Ireland's forth largest ICT employer. It's bigger than Microsoft Ireland! They also are not just a call center they have assembly lines in the facility that handle the construction of Mac Pros!

!MAVERICK!

ryanmatty wrote: »

Well you don't know that much about apple in Ireland so if thats your view. Apple have a massive facility based in North Cork. It employs over 2000 people at present which is far from "nothing major" as you have stated. Apple have been in Ireland since the early 80's and is at present Ireland's forth largest ICT employer. It's bigger than Microsoft Ireland! They also are not just a call center they have assembly lines in the facility that handle the construction of Mac Pros!

Oh well thanks so much for your knowledgeable input Ryan! And stop exaggerating they are not bigger than Microsoft Ireland. How could they when you just stated they are the "4th largest ICT employer in Ireland" and Microsoft are the second biggest employer just behind Intel. Your response is so ambiguous. Im not going to argue with you.

!MAVERICK!

Oh yeah and one last thing, If apple are such a big employer in Ireland then how come such a large MNC isnt even listed here?????

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_of_Ireland

ryanmatty

!MAVERICK! wrote: »

Oh well thanks so much for your knowledgeable input Ryan! And stop exaggerating they are not bigger than Microsoft Ireland. How could they when you just stated they are the "4th largest ICT employer in Ireland" and Microsoft are the second biggest employer just behind Intel. Your response is so ambiguous. Im not going to argue with you.

Just a quick search confirms this and shows you lack of knowledge on Irelands ICT employers and how they are ranked! Even quoted on Microsoft site as been just 1200 plus contract staff of 700. Maybe my maths is wrong here or something but 1200 + 700 is not more than 2000?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/apple-breaks-the-2000-jobs-mark-120074.html

http://www.microsoft.com/ireland/about/

ryanmatty

!MAVERICK! wrote: »

Oh yeah and one last thing, If apple are such a big employer in Ireland then how come such a large MNC isnt even listed here?????

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_of_Ireland

Industry


Murphys Stout, 1919 advert for the famous Cork brewery.
Cork City is at the heart of industry in the south of Ireland. Its main area of industry is pharmaceuticals, with Pfizer Inc. and Swiss company Novartis being big employers in the region. The most famous product of the Cork pharmaceutical industry is Viagra. Cork is also the European headquarters of Apple Inc. where their high end computers are manufactured and their European call centre, R&D and AppleCare is hosted.[36] In total, they currently employ over 2,000 staff. EMC Corporation is another large IT employer with over 1,600 staff in their 52,000 sq metre (560,000 sq ft) engineering, manufacturing, and technical services facility.

Taken from

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cork_(city))

So its actually APPLE INC EUROPEAN HEADQUARTERS

So maybe eat sum humble pie!!!

!MAVERICK!

ryanmatty wrote: »

Just a quick search confirms this and shows you lack of knowledge on Irelands ICT employers and how they are ranked! Even quoted on Microsoft site as been just 1200 plus contract staff of 700. Maybe my maths is wrong here or something but 1200 + 700 is not more than 2000?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/apple-breaks-the-2000-jobs-mark-120074.html

http://www.microsoft.com/ireland/about/

Do something better with your time would you? I dont want a lecture on how many people Microsoft employ. Im sure I know more about them that you anyway as Ive actually work experience there. And my brother actually used to work as one of the HRM managers in Sandy ford. So sorry to piss on your bonfire but get stuffed!

aidan_walsh

So, about those laptop comparisons, eh? Back on topic please, and less of the personal abuse (before or after editing it out).

was.deevey

I use a 13' daily, given the choice i'd change to 15'

Refurbs are quite literally as good as new, you can send it back if not up to your expectations.

Thunderbolt I cant imagine being anywhere near "standard" for another 2-3 years anyhow.

BUT the OP keeps bringing up the 13' and making excuses for buying one (Eyesight is great, intel graphics aren't so bad etc...).

So it sounds like you really want a 13' .. buy what YOU want, both are fantastically great machines.

fasty

Cognitive dissonance at work!

Anyway, it's madness getting a 13" Macbook Pro given it's screen resolution. Plenty of people will say "oh, it's fine for me". That's fair enough, just try to avoid having a go of a 13" Macbook Air!

In fact, if you can wait, wait and see if they bring out Sandy Bridge Macbook Airs this Summer. You'd get your Intel graphics and 13" screen but at a decent res!

yer man!

My refurb has been running really well so far, it's a macbook pro 13" from last nov. I had an issue with the connection from the mother board to the hard drive but apple fixed that under warranty except when I got it back they forgot to reconnect the sleep sensor that detects the lid when closed, drove me mad. All in all tho the refurbs are really good. looked brand new when I got it.

opinion guy

fasty wrote: »

Cognitive dissonance at work!

Anyway, it's madness getting a 13" Macbook Pro given it's screen resolution. Plenty of people will say "oh, it's fine for me". That's fair enough, just try to avoid having a go of a 13" Macbook Air!

In fact, if you can wait, wait and see if they bring out Sandy Bridge Macbook Airs this Summer. You'd get your Intel graphics and 13" screen but at a decent res!

I'm currently on 13" 2009 model. I'm leaning towards a 15" maybe at then end of the year. The sole deciding factor as to why 15" is the increased screen resolution.