MOSSAD FRONT URBAN MOVING SYSTEMS RECIEVED FEDERAL FUNDING IN MONTHS PRIOR TO 911

Dave!

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Well, I wouldn't like to think I'm on a 'side' as such. This shouldn't really be a football match or something

True, but you and alastair are both arguing against the people who think that 9/11 was a Mossad/Jewish/stonemason/reptilian conspiracy, so for all intents and purposes you are teammates! Act accordingly

Di0genes

Hookah wrote: »

Now look at the tables, concerning the nature of the buildings and the collapses.

The only steel framed buildings with a total collapses due to fire are the WTC buildings.

Every other one is either not a steel framed building, or suffered only a partial collapse (which could mean anything).

In the windsor building the steel frame collapsed.

About 50 firefighters tackled the blaze at the ESP plant in the Enigma Business Park, near Malvern, which started on Wednesday morning.

The roof collapsed inside the building and flames leapt 45ft (14m) into the sky in a strong wind, Hereford and Worcester Fire and Rescue Service said.

A spokesman for the fire service said the blaze had resulted in a black smoke cloud which could be seen for miles.

He added: "Intense heat buckled the steel girders holding the roof."

There's also the Kader Toy factory
http://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/kadertoyfactoryfire:structuralsteelquick

and this

http://www.fpemag.com/archives/article.asp?issue_id=27&i=153

Two large department store fires in Athens, Greece, in 1980 are documented in the paper by Kyriakos Papaioannoa, 1986.4 These fires began at 3 a.m. on Dec. 19, 1980, with arson being suspected as the cause. The Katrantzos Sport Department Store was an 8-story reinforced concrete building. Its fire started at the 7th floor and rapidly spread throughout the building, due to lack of vertical or horizontal compartmentation and the absence of sprinklers. Collected evidence indicated that the fire temperatures reached 1000°C over the 2- to 3-hour fire duration, and the firefighters concentrated on containing the fire spread to the adjacent buildings. Upon termination of these fires, it was discovered that a major part of the 5th to 8th floors had collapsed. Various other floor and column failures throughout the Katrantzos Building were also observed (see Figure 1). The cause of these failures was considered to be restraint of the differential thermal expansion of the structure that overloaded its specific elements or connections. On May 21, 1987, Sao Paulo had one of the biggest fires in Brazil, which precipitated a substantial partial collapse of the central core of the tall CESP Building 2.

and

A fire-initiated full collapse of a textile factory occurred in Alexandria, Egypt, on July 19, 2000. This 6-story building was built of reinforced concrete, and its fire started at about 9 a.m. in the storage room at the ground floor. Fire extinguishers were nonfunctional, and the fire spread quickly before the firefighters could arrive. An electrical short-circuit accelerated the fire spread. At about 6 p.m., nine hours after the start of the fire, when the blaze seemingly was under control and subsiding, the building suddenly collapsed, killing 27 people. Figure 3 shows a photograph of this collapse.

The point is your claim that "no steel framed building has ever collapsed due to fire"

Is utterly erroneous

Hookah

Di0genes wrote: »

The point is your claim that "no steel framed building has ever collapsed due to fire"

Is utterly erroneous

The one in Thailand was an 'unprotected steel structure' according to one of the points in that report.

The one's in Greece and Brazil are partial collapses, not the nice, neat, freefall, total collapses in New York that day.


I could dissect them all, but I'm off into the gym.

Di0genes

Hookah wrote: »

The one in Thailand was an 'unprotected steel structure' according to one of the points in that report.

The one's in Greece and Brazil are partial collapses, not the nice, neat, freefall, total collapses in New York that day.


I could dissect them all, but I'm off into the gym.

None of them had chunks of skyscraper fall on them, or had raging unfought fires burning continuously throughout the day.

And the collapse was neither nice, nor fully freefall.

Again all this has been done to death already on this forum.

Hookah

Di0genes wrote: »

None of them had chunks of skyscraper fall on them, or had raging unfought fires burning continuously throughout the day.

And the collapse was neither nice, nor fully freefall.

Again all this has been done to death already on this forum.

We'll have to agree to disagree for now.

Till we meet again, Di0genes.

Mahatma coat

at what point in the Timeline did Chunks of Skyscraper fall on WTC7??

What started the fires that Raged throughout the day????

Yitzhak Rabin

This is going fairly well off topic. I know 9/11 threads are by their nature very hard to keep on topic, but could people please try and keep discussion centered around Urban Moving Systems.

Tbh, on the balance of probabilities I would say that UMS was a mossad front. Thats not to say that every employee was an agent, but thats the way a front operates. Its a convenient for a spy ring to operate. Access to vans, vacant buildings, visas, passports etc.

I doubt Suter was a an operative, most likely an Israeli patriot businessman who employed a few people to act as agents in return for some money.

So has anyone any logical reason the Fed would give half a million to UMS? In fairness, its fairly odd.

(by the way, just because I think theres a good chance UMS was a spyfront, doesn't mean I believe the Mossad did 9/11)

Di0genes

Mahatma coat wrote: »

at what point in the Timeline did Chunks of Skyscraper fall on WTC7??

Around about the time the towers collapsed

What started the fires that Raged throughout the day????

The falling debris...

Di0genes

yekahS wrote: »

So has anyone any logical reason the Fed would give half a million to UMS? In fairness, its fairly odd.
)

They're a small business it's a government loan.

Unless every business that ever got IDA grant works for the Irish Government....

Mahatma coat

Well Yeah, if the IDA gave a Small Removal firm Half a million pounds Iwould be rather suspicious, what are the overheads for a Removals Company,
A few Vans, a few guys to work those Vans, Some blankets and a central Office, even allowing for a Storage element to it they aint storin yer stuff for Free, So what costs half a Million dollars in One Year???????

King Mob

Mahatma coat wrote: »

Well Yeah, if the IDA gave a Small Removal firm Half a million pounds Iwould be rather suspicious, what are the overheads for a Removals Company,
A few Vans, a few guys to work those Vans, Some blankets and a central Office, even allowing for a Storage element to it they aint storin yer stuff for Free, So what costs half a Million dollars in One Year???????

Shouldn't you know all these things seeing as you're claiming that the amount is inappropriate?
And if they were paying them off for whatever reason, why through a government loan, the details of which are available online?

Yitzhak Rabin

Di0genes wrote: »

They're a small business it's a government loan.

Unless every business that ever got IDA grant works for the Irish Government....

Oh right, I didn't think it was a loan. Thought it was a grant.

True enough. I suppose there's no way of knowing whether its odd or not, until we can compare it to what is a 'normal' federal loan, and whether this was out of the ordinary.

Mahatma coat

Well, Lets see, why do you think that it was an appropriate figure??????

King Mob

Mahatma coat wrote: »

Well, Lets see, why do you think that it was an appropriate figure??????

I don't know. I'm not the one claiming it's weird.
How exactly do you know it's too much to be a normal loan.

Mahatma coat

Because thats a Very large figure for a Removals Company, I have already stated why.

Di0genes

Mahatma coat wrote: »

Well, Lets see, why do you think that it was an appropriate figure??????

Until someone can explain why it is odd, or unexplained, for the US government to make a loan to this business.

I am reminded of those claims about the ISI wiring 100k to Atta on the eve of the attacks, the next obvious question should be this. Why on earth did Atta need 100k before boarding the planes?

Can you explain Mahatma Coat, the significance of this loan? What do you think 400k was used for?

Or indeed why you think they needed it? You think the CIA or Mossad, or the Lizzzzards or whatever's plan required them to borrow 400k from the US government?

Are they supposed to be that hard up for cash?

Mahatma coat

has any effort been made to Recoup this 'Loan' since the business folded and the Main recipient Fled the country??????

Mahatma coat

you Know the Lizzzzzzzzzards dont like spending their own money :pac:

Di0genes

Mahatma coat wrote: »

has any effort been made to Recoup this 'Loan' since the business folded and the Main recipient Fled the country??????

I imagine because of both of the reasons you mentioned it would be a tad difficult to recoup the loan.

King Mob

Mahatma coat wrote: »

Because thats a Very large figure for a Removals Company, I have already stated why.

And how do you know that it is very large for such a company?
Can you show some examples of similarly sized companies getting much less?

Mahatma coat

yekahS wrote: »

Oh right, I didn't think it was a loan. Thought it was a grant.

True enough. I suppose there's no way of knowing whether its odd or not, until we can compare it to what is a 'normal' federal loan, and whether this was out of the ordinary.

heres the Fedral spendin for 2001 in NJ,
http://www.fedspending.org/faads/faads.php?&recipient_state_code=34&fiscal_year=2001&record_num=all&detail=2&datype=T&reptype=r&database=faads&sortp=p
it does look a bit odd, there are some much larger companies with many more employees and overheads gettin not much more than these guys.
AND
Simmilar sized companies getting much less

Di0genes

Mahatma coat wrote: »

heres the Fedral spendin for 2001 in NJ,
http://www.fedspending.org/faads/faads.php?&recipient_state_code=34&fiscal_year=2001&record_num=all&detail=2&datype=T&reptype=r&database=faads&sortp=p
it does look a bit odd, there are some much larger companies with many more employees and overheads gettin not much more than these guys.
AND
Simmilar sized companies getting much less

How can you tell company size from that spreadsheet.

or overheads?

There's a 700k loan to cheese and wine shop

300k+ to a Picture framing shop

412k to CENTRAL AVENUE WINES AND LIQUOR

$999,990 HOWARD JOHNSON'S MOTOR LODGE

Shall I go on?

Hookah

Did whoever funded the company the money, ever state why, or what for, the company received that amount of funding?

Mahatma coat

yes, please do go on, Find an example of something Simmilar

King Mob

Mahatma coat wrote: »

heres the Fedral spendin for 2001 in NJ,
http://www.fedspending.org/faads/faads.php?&recipient_state_code=34&fiscal_year=2001&record_num=all&detail=2&datype=T&reptype=r&database=faads&sortp=p
it does look a bit odd, there are some much larger companies with many more employees and overheads gettin not much more than these guys.
AND
Simmilar sized companies getting much less

How are you finding out that the companies getting less were bigger and had more overhead? That information is not listed in that link.
And there's a ton of other businesses getting the same type of loan in comparable and greater amounts.

Mahatma coat

take the name of the company an FGI;)

DublinWriter

Di0genes wrote: »

In the shift of rubble were wedding rings, tiny bone fragments, and scrapes of DNA have been found and returned to the family members, no one has found any detention cord, blasting caps or charges, any of the sort of residue you'd find after a controlled denotation.

Except the firemen, who reported rivulets of molten steel days after 9/11.

The thermal signature of the smouldering remains was far in excess of what you'd expect jet kerosene to do to so much office furniture and paper and was more in keeping with a massive termite reaction.

NIST never came up with an explanation of this.

It's the one, and perhaps, only time you'll hear conspiracy nuts claim the validity of the laws of Thermodynamics.

King Mob

Mahatma coat wrote: »

take the name of the company an FGI;)

Ok this one got 430,000+
http://www.a-zrental.com/
Please show us how this has more overhead than the Movers?
Or maybe you can show us the ones you googled and proves your point?

Mahatma coat

What??????????????
In what world would those two business models ever comparable, one Has a Fvckload of Stock that it Rents out to people, the other fills people stuff into the back of a Van and moves it around.

if you dont understand the difference there I cant really help you, same as any form of Shop which has Stock requirements and a Shopfront in a desireable location, or any form of manufacturing industry that requires a Factory and Competent qualified workers.

King Mob

Mahatma coat wrote: »

What??????????????
In what world would those two business models ever comparable, one Has a Fvckload of Stock that it Rents out to people, the other fills people stuff into the back of a Van and moves it around.

if you dont understand the difference there I cant really help you, same as any form of Shop which has Stock requirements and a Shopfront in a desireable location, or any form of manufacturing industry that requires a Factory and Competent qualified workers.

So then what was the names of the moving companies you used to compare and determine that the Urban movers got too much?