ireland's literacy?what is going on?

metrovelvet

I went into a garden center and asked the manager for AROMATIC sweet pea. He didn't know what aromatic meant and I had to explain it to him, a garden center manager.

pickarooney

Garden centre.

DEVEREUX

DEVEREUX wrote: »

did'nt

Is that a joke?

DEVEREUX

metrovelvet

pickarooney wrote: »

Garden centre.

I'm American. We spell it center.

It's normal standard over here that a garden centER manager doesn't know what aromatic means when he has to sell flowers for a living?

Dunjohn

I'd say it's an exception. "Aromatic" is a word that's common enough the many non-Garden centre managers would recognise it. It's just a gap in this one man's lexicon.

Slightly in the same vein, I've had something happen to me once, years ago, when I worked in a supermarket. And American lady asked me for some Japanese-sounding thing I'd never heard of - Kukido. I searched all around the Japanese-ish sections but could find nothing. I rang the manager and he said, yeah, we have loads of it, in the bakery section. So I brought the lady there but I still couldn't see any kukido. She just looked at me and took down a packet of biscuit dough. She'd been calling it "cookie dough."

metrovelvet

Dunjohn wrote: »

I'd say it's an exception. "Aromatic" is a word that's common enough the many non-Garden centre managers would recognise it. It's just a gap in this one man's lexicon.

Slightly in the same vein, I've had something happen to me once, years ago, when I worked in a supermarket. And American lady asked me for some Japanese-sounding thing I'd never heard of - Kukido. I searched all around the Japanese-ish sections but could find nothing. I rang the manager and he said, yeah, we have loads of it, in the bakery section. So I brought the lady there but I still couldn't see any kukido. She just looked at me and took down a packet of biscuit dough. She'd been calling it "cookie dough."

One time this English person asked me directions to the 'mowl.' I had no idea what he was talking about. I said what is a 'mowl?" It took about 15 minutes to fugure out he was saying MALL.

NufcNavan

metrovelvet wrote: »

I went into a garden center and asked the manager for AROMATIC sweet pea. He didn't know what aromatic meant and I had to explain it to him, a garden center manager.

Loving the lack of upper case in the thread title by the way.

metrovelvet

NufcNavan wrote: »

Loving the lack of upper case in the thread title by the way.

Im glad you like it. I would expect someone who leaves out a subjective case and doesn't write in full sentences would appreciate it.

I assume you are not an English teacher so these things are not as shocking as someone who sells flowers for a living not knowing what aromatic means.

NufcNavan

metrovelvet wrote: »

Im glad you like it. I would expect someone who leaves out a subjective case and doesn't write in full sentences would appreciate it.

I assume you are not an English teacher so these things are not as shocking as someone who sells flowers for a living not knowing what aromatic means.

Agreed. An absolute travesty.

Get on the blower to Joe Duffy on Monday afternoon.

pickarooney

This thread has nothing to do with English. It's just another pointless generalisation on Irish ignorance based on one incident. I fail to see what literacy has to do with a vocabulary gap in any case. What's an aromatic sweet pea as opposed to an ordinary sweet pea anyway, that I may go to sleep less ignorant myself?

metrovelvet

pickarooney wrote: »

This thread has nothing to do with English. It's just another pointless generalisation on Irish ignorance based on one incident. I fail to see what literacy has to do with a vocabulary gap in any case. What's an aromatic sweet pea as opposed to an ordinary sweet pea anyway, that I may go to sleep less ignorant myself?

One has a scent and one doesn't. There are two varieties.

I'll come back when I go to a garage and find a garage attendant who doesn't know what diesel and normal unleaded is.

pickarooney

I'm no botanist but a quick google says there are over a thousand varieties of Lathyrus odoratus but doesn't mention any with no scent, which would be kind of ironic, given the genus name. Are you sure you weren't looking for Lathyrus latifolius or everlasting pea, the perennial with a much milder perfume?

(yeah, this is what it sounds like when someone hasn't a clue and pretends they do after 10 seconds of googling)

Rodin

metrovelvet wrote: »

I went into a garden center and asked the manager for AROMATIC sweet pea. He didn't know what aromatic meant and I had to explain it to him, a garden center manager.

Ireland has a capital 'I'.
And in Ireland, center is spelt as 'centre'.

Before criticising ( NOT criticizing) other's literacy, your own needs to be fairly watertight.

Rodin

metrovelvet wrote: »

I'm American. We spell it center.

It's normal standard over here that a garden centER manager doesn't know what aromatic means when he has to sell flowers for a living?

Is that a question?
Your sentence construction is abysmal.

I suggest 'Is it . . .' may be a better start to future questions.

As an aside, if you walk into a pharmacy and ask for 'acetaminophen' expect a puzzled look. It will be nothing to do with literacy or level of education.

NomdePlume

metrovelvet wrote: »

One time this English person asked me directions to the 'mowl.' I had no idea what he was talking about. I said what is a 'mowl?" It took about 15 minutes to fugure out he was saying MALL.

I used to work in a bookshop, and one day a customer asked me if we had any "low" books.
"Low books?" I asked
"Yes, low books"
"Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean"
At this point he was looking at me like I was a total imbecile. "LOW books. Books on LOW"....
And after a long pause it dawned on me.....
"Oh, LAW books!"
"Yes, low!"

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

metrovelvet

pickarooney wrote: »

I'm no botanist but a quick google says there are over a thousand varieties of Lathyrus odoratus but doesn't mention any with no scent, which would be kind of ironic, given the genus name. Are you sure you weren't looking for Lathyrus latifolius or everlasting pea, the perennial with a much milder perfume?

(yeah, this is what it sounds like when someone hasn't a clue and pretends they do after 10 seconds of googling)

It was a garden centER manager in France who told me that there are scented and unscented varieties of sweet pea. A garden centER manager in France who had basic English knew the word aromatic.

I just wanted to make sure I was purchasing the aromatic sweet pea as I would like to add some sensuality to my garden.

I can't imagine one day when you walk into a garage in France and the attendant there doesn't know what sans plomb 95 is you will be on ennuye.fr wondering the same thing I am. [And before you start pickarooneying me, I already know there is an accent on the e, I don't know how to do accents on the keyboard.]

CiaranC

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

lol, nice one Walter Mitty

looksee

metrovelvet wrote: »

It was a garden centER manager in France who told me that there are scented and unscented varieties of sweet pea. A garden centER manager in France who had basic English knew the word aromatic.

I just wanted to make sure I was purchasing the aromatic sweet pea as I would like to add some sensuality to my garden.

I can't imagine one day when you walk into a garage in France and the attendant there doesn't know what sans plomb 95 is you will be on ennuye.fr wondering the same thing I am. [And before you start pickarooneying me, I already know there is an accent on the e, I don't know how to do accents on the keyboard.]

None of this has anything to do with literacy, more to do with appreciating nuances of the language as it is used in Ireland/England.

As has been pointed out, centre is the word used in England and Ireland, American English has reinvented it as center.

The most common variety of sweetpeas have a scent anyway (the clue is in the latin name). If you wanted something else you would be expected to ask for 'everlasting', for example.

I would not use the word 'aromatic' in connection with sweetpeas, to me it suggests herbs. While you are strictly speaking correct, it is not an intuitive use of aromatic. It might well seem to be correct to a Frenchman since they use the word aromatique to mean scented.

Finally, I would not consider adding scent to your garden would result in sensuality, not on its own anyway. Again you are strictly speaking correct, but it is not an intuitive use of sensuality.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

looksee

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

OK, I accept that, and I believe we are going back to varied spelling as we lose track of what is European and what is American spelling. However it is surprising how often Americans try to correct European English, whereas we just accept that Americans have different spellings.

metrovelvet

looksee wrote: »

OK, I accept that, and I believe we are going back to varied spelling as we lose track of what is European and what is American spelling. However it is surprising how often Americans try to correct European English, whereas we just accept that Americans have different spellings.

Wow. Talk about aromatic hipocracy. It stinks of horse****. Pardon my French.

If you want to speak the Queen's English, that's your preogative, but we have our own English, and I will use the one I grew up with.

At least I can recognise and respect that, rather than correct someone who spells center, centre and tell them how to speak their language.

Having flashbacks yet?

looksee

metrovelvet wrote: »

Wow. Talk about aromatic hipocracy. It stinks of horse****. Pardon my French.

If you want to speak the Queen's English, that's your preogative, but we have our own English, and I will use the one I grew up with.

At least I can recognise and respect that, rather than correct someone who spells center, centre and tell them how to speak their language.

Having flashbacks yet?

Feel free to use any English you want, but don't come on an Irish website complaining about literacy when people are using 'the Queen' English'. As to the centre/center discussion, there is an aromatic whiff of trolling.

pickarooney

metrovelvet wrote: »

Wow. Talk about aromatic hipocracy. It stinks of horse****. Pardon my French.

I think even in America that counts as bad spelling.

The centre/center thing was obviously a petty joke, in keeping with the spirit of the thread. Honestly, if you're going to post something so insensitive and inflammatory you can't expect people to take it well. Making thick Paddy digs might be OK if you self-identify as one, but making these kind of superior, disparaging remarks is not a whole lot different to starting a thread on an African message board title "why are blacks to dumb?" It doesn't help that you've been patently wrong from post one.

metrovelvet

pickarooney wrote: »

I think even in America that counts as bad spelling.

The centre/center thing was obviously a petty joke, in keeping with the spirit of the thread. Honestly, if you're going to post something so insensitive and inflammatory you can't expect people to take it well. Making thick Paddy digs might be OK if you self-identify as one, but making these kind of superior, disparaging remarks is not a whole lot different to starting a thread on an African message board title "why are blacks to dumb?" It doesn't help that you've been patently wrong from post one.

I never claimed to be a good speller. Im not an English teacher and I don't work in publishing.

If I did, you would have a point.

I do expect people who sell flowers to know what aromatic means.

I might add that you were patently wrong from your first post in correcting my spelling of centER. You want to claim an 'Irish message board.' The US invented the web, if you want to follow that train of thought.

And if being Irish is what qualifies you to make an observation without petty bullying from other posters, I hold an Irish passport and I have an Irish last name and hold Irish residency. And you have NO RIGHT to tell anyone else who they are.

deman

metrovelvet wrote: »

I might add that you were patently wrong from your first post in correcting my spelling of centER. You want to claim an 'Irish message board.' The US invented the web, if you want to follow that train of thought.

And if being Irish is what qualifies you to make an observation without petty bullying from other posters, I hold an Irish passport and I have an Irish last name and hold Irish residency. And you have NO RIGHT to tell anyone else who they are.

This is getting beyond ridiculous. It's comments like "we invented the internet" make a lot of Americans seem arrogant and self-important. What would we all do with our lives if it hadn't been for our wonderful cousins across the pond who have shown us the light. Inventing the internet! Ha! Follow that train of thought! Ha!

Newflash!

AMERICA OWNS THE INTERNET AND THEREFORE CONTROLS OUR LIVES!

Back on topic...

This garden centre, where was it? Ireland or the US? In Ireland it's a garden centre.

tallaghtoutlaws

To be fair to the OP I also find in shocking a Garden Centre Manager/Worker doesn't know what Aromatic means. I venture to the Garden centre a lot out by us with the old man a lot and even he has found some of said workers need to read up on what they sell. Pointless for the most part asking a few of them questions.

As for literacy, the standard definition of read and write for literacy has changed in many countries eyes including European Countries. It has long extended past read and write.

As for spelling, I also think giving the OP a hard time about the way she grew up spelling words is madness. You can hardly compare it to a Manager of a Garden centre not knowing what a word means, especially one used in his chosen field and lets get real Aromatic has been used a lot in the last 10 years by many, its hardly a new word or strange one to be asked.

Edit: Just to add I sent a buddy of mine a text who is an English teacher in the US but studied here in Maynooth for a year and asked him was his way of spelling accepted in an Irish College and he said yes it was. So those of you giving the OP a hard time about they way we spell things guess our education system doesn't care about the way Americans spell words.

deman

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

As for spelling, I also think giving the OP a hard time about the way she grew up spelling words is madness. You can hardly compare it to a Manager of a Garden centre not knowing what a word means, especially one used in his chosen field and lets get real Aromatic has been used a lot in the last 10 years by many, its hardly a new word or strange one to be asked.

Edit: Just to add I sent a buddy of mine a text who is an English teacher in the US but studied here in Maynooth for a year and asked him was his way of spelling accepted in an Irish College and he said yes it was. So those of you giving the OP a hard time about they way we spell things guess our education system doesn't care about the way Americans spell words.

I could have told you that even Cambridge accepts American English in its exams. But the student taking the exam must stick to one or the other and not a mishmash of both....

metrovelvet wrote: »

At least I can recognise and respect that, rather than correct someone who spells center, centre and tell them how to speak their language.

brendanL

I've something similiar to TS at deli counters that sell rolls.

If they sell sandwiches and rolls.. and they ask, 'what would you like?' I ask for a baguette.... honestly everytime the counter person says... 'a whaa?'

At this juncture in the roll buying experiance I say 'a roll man' XD

looksee

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

To be fair to the OP I also find in shocking a Garden Centre Manager/Worker doesn't know what Aromatic means. I venture to the Garden centre a lot out by us with the old man a lot and even he has found some of said workers need to read up on what they sell. Pointless for the most part asking a few of them questions.

As for literacy, the standard definition of read and write for literacy has changed in many countries eyes including European Countries. It has long extended past read and write.

As for spelling, I also think giving the OP a hard time about the way she grew up spelling words is madness. You can hardly compare it to a Manager of a Garden centre not knowing what a word means, especially one used in his chosen field and lets get real Aromatic has been used a lot in the last 10 years by many, its hardly a new word or strange one to be asked.

Edit: Just to add I sent a buddy of mine a text who is an English teacher in the US but studied here in Maynooth for a year and asked him was his way of spelling accepted in an Irish College and he said yes it was. So those of you giving the OP a hard time about they way we spell things guess our education system doesn't care about the way Americans spell words.

That is not the point at issue. Maynooth may have been willing to accept American spelling, that is not the same as an American (Irish passport notwithstanding) who is making an issue of being American and having an American education, insisting that Europeans are wrong in using a particular spelling.

Are we wrong about aluminium and colour and pyjamas and speciality as well?

I still contend that while a French person might apply aromatique to flowers, 'aromatic sweet peas' is not a phrase that would be expected and could therefore lead to momentary confusion - scented sweet peas, possibly, but even that could be considered tautology.

You want to claim an 'Irish message board.' The US invented the web

What are you talking about? It is an Irish message board! The clue is in the .ie in the name. And the fact that the vast majority of posters are Irish. And it is based in Ireland. Are you saying you have been on Boards all this time and didn't realise it was Irish? What did you think it was?