Cut the dole 100%

rossa morbeg

The dole should be 100% percent cut for anybody that has been on it since pre 2007. I dont mean people on disabilty payments.

No it shouldn't.


Well, I'm glad we cleared that up.

themadchef

rossa morbeg wrote: »

The dole should be 100% percent cut for anybody that has been on it since pre 2007. I dont mean people on disabilty payments.

Really. How do you propose these people feed and clothe themselves?

Get back under the bridge before you get sunburnt.

celticbest

rossa morbeg wrote: »

The dole should be 100% percent cut for anybody that has been on it since pre 2007. I dont mean people on disabilty payments.

bluewolf wrote: »

No it shouldn't.


Well, I'm glad we cleared that up.

Maybe not 100%, but it should be cut at a comparable rate to the lose most working people have seen in their pay packet over the past few years.

The dole has been cut by far less % wise compared to the % of pay I have lost over the past few years.

celticbest

celticbest wrote: »

The dole has been cut by far less % wise compared to the % of pay I have lost over the past few years.

You getting a pay cut isn't really a good basis for the dole being cut. I got a pay rise, should that mean the dole is increased?

celticbest

celticbest wrote: »

Maybe not 100%, but it should be cut at a comparable rate to the lose most working people have seen in their pay packet over the past few years.

The dole has been cut by far less % wise compared to the % of pay I have lost over the past few years.

bluewolf wrote: »

You getting a pay cut isn't really a good basis for the dole being cut. I got a pay rise, should that mean the dole is increased?

I never mentioned a pay cut...........

I said the % of pay I've lost over the past few years, this is down to additional taxes which as a % of my pay are far higher then the % of lose incurred by people on Social Welfare payments.

celticbest

celticbest wrote: »

I never mentioned a pay cut...........

I said the % of pay I've lost over the past few years, this is down to additional taxes which as a % of my pay are far higher then the % of lose incurred by people on Social Welfare payments.

I see, I assumed you meant pay cuts, my misunderstanding
I think my point still stands though...

Laminations

Threads like this should be cut by 100%

RMD

The OP has a point in fairness. There is a certain contingent in Irish society who decided they don't want a job, don't want to work for an honest living and instead want to be a parasite on society by continually drawing the dole. These types I feel shouldn't get anything unless they perform community based tasks or are showing evidence of actively seeking employment.

DrumSteve

Not everyone on the dole is a bum.

Those who don't want to work but can should receive a reduced rate.

Besides, can you imagine how much crime would shoot up by if you cut the dole of long term recipients 100%?

celticbest

bluewolf wrote: »

I see, I assumed you meant pay cuts, my misunderstanding
I think my point still stands though...

Fair enough, but if someone really wants to work there are jobs to be had out there, it might not be there first preference or even there tenth but if someone is willing to work they will find work.

However the problem is there is that no incentive to work in a lot of cases at the moment because of our overly generous Welfare system.

If the minimum wage was say at least twice what you would get in Social Welfare payments and you still got some entitlements like rent allowance etc. then at least you are contributing to society instead of doing nothing.

However as a start how about people collecting Social Welfare payments being made to work in there local community for say.....10 Hours a weeks, sweeping roads, picking up litter etc. If payments are not to be cut then why should money be handed out for nothing in return? This would be a reasonable wage, eg someone on a payment of €188p/w working for 10 p/w would be equal to €18.80p/h into the hand.

Dannyboy83

RMD wrote: »

The OP has a point in fairness. There is a certain contingent in Irish society who decided they don't want a job, don't want to work for an honest living and instead want to be a parasite on society by continually drawing the dole. These types I feel shouldn't get anything unless they perform community based tasks or are showing evidence of actively seeking employment.

Not that long ago they had one of the Dundon's in the papers collecting SW.
God knows - there are plenty of people who have earned it but can't get it!

The current Irish SW system is not fit for purpose, should be scrapped.

We seriously need to bring in expertise from abroad.

tayto lover

I pass a certain pub every day and the same faces are outside smoking. I know them all and they have never worked (ever), never will work. How can they afford their life-style ? They are married with families so someone must be suffering. They even back horses so they must be very lucky though i doubt it but this intrigues me as i see them there every day no matter what time i pass.
How is it done ?
I know very few working people who could afford 2 nights drinking, never mind everyday and night.

My name is URL

tayto lover wrote: »

I pass a certain pub every day and the same faces are outside smoking. I know them all and they have never worked (ever), never will work. How can they afford their life-style ? They are married with families so someone must be suffering. They even back horses so they must be very lucky though i doubt it but this intrigues me as i see them there every day no matter what time i pass.
How is it done ?
I know very few working people who could afford 2 nights drinking, never mind everyday and night.

Have you reported any of them to the DSP? If you're so sure of their circumstances then what's your reason for not reporting it?

The amount of spiel that people on this site come out with in regards to welfare scroungers is absurd. if you know for a fact that people are abusing the system then do something to help put an end to it, rather than moaning anonymously online.

Einhard

celticbest wrote: »

However as a start how about people collecting Social Welfare payments being made to work in there local community for say.....10 Hours a weeks, sweeping roads, picking up litter etc. If payments are not to be cut then why should money be handed out for nothing in return? This would be a reasonable wage, eg someone on a payment of €188p/w working for 10 p/w would be equal to €18.80p/h into the hand.

Don't really have a problem with that on principle, but that would esssentially put local authority workers, and others, in direct competition with what amounts to free labour. I'm not sure you'd be so supportive if you're sector was allowed to draft suitably qualified people from the dole, to do your job at a fraction of the cost.

Gunmonkey

Einhard wrote: »

Don't really have a problem with that on principle, but that would esssentially put local authority workers, and others, in direct competition with what amounts to free labour. I'm not sure you'd be so supportive if you're sector was allowed to draft suitably qualified people from the dole, to do your job at a fraction of the cost.

True but in my village the maintenance of the green and flowerbeds and tidying of litter is usually handled by the people living here, the council just makes sure the street lights work, the bins are emptied (but other litter is ignored) and the potholes have some road between them :pac:

Nobodys saying they should be out doing all the jobs of the council workers, just the light work that will get ignored as budgets get tighter and other projects need priority. And if the dolers are cleaning up the streets and such wouldnt that just leave the council workers free to handle other work in the area.

celticbest

Gunmonkey wrote: »

True but in my village the maintenance of the green and flowerbeds and tidying of litter is usually handled by the people living here, the council just makes sure the street lights work, the bins are emptied (but other litter is ignored) and the potholes have some road between them :pac:

Nobodys saying they should be out doing all the jobs of the council workers, just the light work that will get ignored as budgets get tighter and other projects need priority. And if the dolers are cleaning up the streets and such wouldnt that just leave the council workers free to handle other work in the area.

+1

If you walk around your local streets you will see litter at almost every corner, if the council had enough employees then this would not be the case.

If Ireland as a whole was a tidier looking place it would leave a good impression on people who come here to visit & this would surely lead to them recommending it as a vacation location to others. Thus this in turn would create more jobs in the hospitality sector giving our economy a much needed boost.

misterdeeds

rossa morbeg wrote: »

The dole should be 100% percent cut for anybody that has been on it since pre 2007. I dont mean people on disabilty payments.

Many people solely rely on the dole to survive in this world people who are on the dole through no fault of their own
So imagine your income was cut by 100% and then you might get some idea of what it would be like
And i bet your next post would not sound as cock headed .

candy-gal1

Disability allowance is for people with actual disabilities imho, not depression or any of those "mental health" problems people say they have :rolleyes:
Cure for depression? get out and do something!
I could be depressed right now tbh, does that mean im entitled to some cash for it? lol

Dole should be kept being cut as it has been tbh, unless youve been on it over say 5 years and have no proof of looking for work at all then halfed imho

Chuck Stone

candy-gal1 wrote: »

Disability allowance is for people with actual disabilities imho, not depression or any of those "mental health" problems people say they have :rolleyes:
Cure for depression? get out and do something!
I could be depressed right now tbh, does that mean im entitled to some cash for it? lol

Wow you've just found a way to 'cure' millions of people from a complex and debilitating illness in one little paragraph!

Please allow me to carry your fruit oh wise one.

douglashyde

Some of people on the dole want a job and have the drive and are looking for work.

Some people want a job on the dole want a job but don't have the drive and are waiting for work.

Some people don't want a job, want the dole and are happy with the perks attached to it.

In my view two things need to be done with People who are on Job Seekers Allowance (Arn't working of their Stamps, PRSI payments) and are living of working peoples' tax.

1. Decentives: In the form of reduced cash payments for food, electrical stamps. Living on Job Seekers Allowance should not be nice.

2. Incentives: Job creation etc..

It's disgusting that some people have choose a welfare lifestyle.

Einhard

candy-gal1 wrote: »

Disability allowance is for people with actual disabilities imho, not depression or any of those "mental health" problems people say they have :rolleyes:
Cure for depression? get out and do something!
I could be depressed right now tbh, does that mean im entitled to some cash for it? lol

And what's the cure for astounding ignorance?

LK_Dave

rossa morbeg wrote: »

The dole should be 100% percent cut for anybody that has been on it since pre 2007. I dont mean people on disabilty payments.

You sound like a twat. Give me double what the dole currently offers and I'll do your job. If your post is the level of your intelligence your job can’t be very challenging.

Before you ask, I'm not on the dole, I can't as I'm self employed.

tayto lover

My name is URL wrote: »

Have you reported any of them to the DSP? If you're so sure of their circumstances then what's your reason for not reporting it?

The amount of spiel that people on this site come out with in regards to welfare scroungers is absurd. if you know for a fact that people are abusing the system then do something to help put an end to it, rather than moaning anonymously online.

Hold your horses now you.

My reason for posting is to find out why they can lead such a good lifestyle on the dole. They are definitely not working as they don't have time.
The purpose of my point was to find out how they can afford to drink all day every day on the dole.
Now you get off your high-horse.

My name is URL

tayto lover wrote: »

Hold your horses now you.

My reason for posting is to find out why they can lead such a good lifestyle on the dole. They are definitely not working as they don't have time.
The purpose of my point was to find out how they can afford to drink all day every day on the dole.
Now you get off your high-horse.

Well since you apparently know these people and their employment histories, I'd imagine that you're better equipped to answer that question than anyone else on here, which is why I suggested that you report them if you feel they are cheating the system, instead of venting online about the issue.

amacachi

My name is URL wrote: »

Well since you apparently know these people and their employment histories, I'd imagine that you're better equipped to answer that question than anyone else on here, which is why I suggested that you report them if you feel they are cheating the system, instead of venting online about the issue.

Have you had any experience with the social welfare and HSE in these matters? Other than a caseworker taking a dislike to the odd person it's ridiculously easy to stay on the dole non-stop.
Trouble is that most of it is perfectly within the rules etc. It's not just the social welfare that doles out money. If someone is cut off the dole they can go to the HSE (used to be the Health Boards so I assume it's the HSE now) and get the same payment as they were getting indefinitely.

candy-gal1

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Wow you've just found a way to 'cure' millions of people from a complex and debilitating illness in one little paragraph!

Please allow me to carry your fruit oh wise one.

Ah i was expecting to get slaughtered with my statement there tbh, but seriously if you give out money to people who say theyre depressed etc then why wouldnt everyone just say that?
im just wondering, whats getting money got to do with being depressed? if you are, fine, take some time and get out of it there you go

tayto lover

My name is URL wrote: »

Well since you apparently know these people and their employment histories, I'd imagine that you're better equipped to answer that question than anyone else on here, which is why I suggested that you report them if you feel they are cheating the system, instead of venting online about the issue.

Good man yourself. Where did i say or suggest they were cheating the system?
They are not nice people and i wouldn't have anything to do with them but everyone knows them and also that they have never worked and are on the dole. I would still like to know how they can drink every day on it though.

candy-gal1

Einhard wrote: »

And what's the cure for astounding ignorance?

Again, knew this was coming to me from what i said, but whats ignorant? just curious, if i said i was depressed and "proved" it in some way does that mean i get cash for being like that?

beeftotheheels

candy-gal1 wrote: »

Again, knew this was coming to me from what i said, but whats ignorant? just curious, if i said i was depressed and "proved" it in some way does that mean i get cash for being like that?

Do you suspect that you are depressed? If so, you should go to your doctor who will assess you and treat you.

If you don't suspect that you are depressed, why the post? Are you implying that many people who claim to have depression are faking it? Are you yourself interested in engaging in benefit fraud?

candy-gal1

beeftotheheels wrote: »

Do you suspect that you are depressed? If so, you should go to your doctor who will assess you and treat you.

If you don't suspect that you are depressed, why the post? Are you implying that many people who claim to have depression are faking it? Are you yourself interested in engaging in benefit fraud?

No no tbh i dont think that. But hypathetical situation would that mean i get disability benefit? just for saying that? im just curious tbh

myself? no no never would tbh, i know how important money is and how hard people work for it, would never abuse the system like that.
But yeah, for people saying they are depressed, how can you prove it enough to give them money? thats all.
like for dole you can prove someones out of work and looking for work but the whole disability thing seems a bit different or maybe i just dont know enough on the matter?

Brenireland

If this government cuts any-more money from the unemployed of this country their will be WAR.

My name is URL

amacachi wrote: »

Have you had any experience with the social welfare and HSE in these matters? Other than a caseworker taking a dislike to the odd person it's ridiculously easy to stay on the dole non-stop.
Trouble is that most of it is perfectly within the rules etc. It's not just the social welfare that doles out money. If someone is cut off the dole they can go to the HSE (used to be the Health Boards so I assume it's the HSE now) and get the same payment as they were getting indefinitely.

No, I've no idea how they enforce rules for claimants but surely sorting out the inefficiencies there should be the first step, rather than cutting the dole outright for everyone. I assume the vast majority of those receiving social welfare payments are legitimately entitled to them, so I'm not sure why the whole 'welfare scrounger' thing is such a sticking point with people. That's an issue that can be remedied without impeding on those who are not abusing the system.

johnn

I bet if they were to cut the dole by 70% you'd find a lot of people sitting on it getting up off their arses and gettingjobs fairly sharpish.

Einhard

candy-gal1 wrote: »

Ah i was expecting to get slaughtered with my statement there tbh, but seriously if you give out money to people who say theyre depressed etc then why wouldnt everyone just say that?
im just wondering, whats getting money got to do with being depressed? if you are, fine, take some time and get out of it there you go

Money isn't given out to people on the basis that they claim to be depressed, anymore than welfare is paid to people on the basis that they claim to be blind. It's a recognised medical condition, and people can avail of welfare when they are diagnosed as suffering it.

candy-gal1 wrote: »

Again, knew this was coming to me from what i said, but whats ignorant? just curious, if i said i was depressed and "proved" it in some way does that mean i get cash for being like that?

You're attitude to a grave and horrendous illness, which claims more lives in this country every year than motor accidents, is both ignorant, and hugely offensive. If you know so patehtically little about the condition, perhaps you should do everyone a favour, and either educate yourself, or shut up about it until you do?

Einhard

johnn wrote: »

I bet if they were to cut the dole by 70% you'd find a lot of people sitting on it getting up off their arses and gettingjobs fairly sharpish.

Yeah, all those wonderful imaginery jobs floating about out there...

maynooth_rules

Well a person on the dole now gets just under 200 quid a week.
The minimum wage in Ireland is €8.65. A person working 35 hours a week takes home 300 quid a week. From this 300 quid some of it will go on just getting to work if they are driving. The dole being 2/3 of a full weeks minimum wage work is downright wrong IMO.
Also the person on the dole can possibly get rent allowance, a medical card and many other benefits.
Lets make minimum wage jobs attractive again to irish people, and cut the social welfare to about the €140 region.
In one of the other threads I read someone saying that it was treating people like slaves to try to entice them into minimum wage jobs. Thats complete stupid talk and stems from the incredibly attractive welfare state we have.

Einhard

Gunmonkey wrote: »

True but in my village the maintenance of the green and flowerbeds and tidying of litter is usually handled by the people living here, the council just makes sure the street lights work, the bins are emptied (but other litter is ignored) and the potholes have some road between them :pac:

Nobodys saying they should be out doing all the jobs of the council workers, just the light work that will get ignored as budgets get tighter and other projects need priority. And if the dolers are cleaning up the streets and such wouldnt that just leave the council workers free to handle other work in the area.

I take your point, but I can easily envisage a situation where councils, strapped for cash as they are, would seek more than merely to supplement their existing workforce, and draft dole receivers to work in perihperal areas. If an organisation is short of revenue, and has a huge, free labour force at its disposal, it's only a matter of time before the existing pool of labour is adversely affected.

amacachi

My name is URL wrote: »

No, I've no idea how they enforce rules for claimants but surely sorting out the inefficiencies there should be the first step, rather than cutting the dole outright for everyone. I assume the vast majority of those receiving social welfare payments are legitimately entitled to them, so I'm not sure why the whole 'welfare scrounger' thing is such a sticking point with people. That's an issue that can be remedied without impeding on those who are not abusing the system.

My point is that there's basically no such thing as a scrounger since even when someone is caught out or admits that they don't want work they may be cut off the dole but will just get the same amount from another source, but still from the state's coffers.

Cookie_Monster

rossa morbeg wrote: »

The dole should be 100% percent cut for anybody that has been on it since pre 2007.

why stop there, lets cut it by 400%, no 600% actually get some money back off all the wasters
:rolleyes:

Coillte_Bhoy

celticbest wrote: »

Fair enough, but if someone really wants to work there are jobs to be had out there, it might not be there first preference or even there tenth but if someone is willing to work they will find work.

Well could you explain then how come there are approx 1/4 million more on the dole than there were 4 years ago. not to mention the thousands that emigrated? Did all these people who were in employment suddenly decide that they would go on the dole, which is being cut every year?? Honestly....

candy-gal1

Einhard wrote: »

Money isn't given out to people on the basis that they claim to be depressed, anymore than welfare is paid to people on the basis that they claim to be blind. It's a recognised medical condition, and people can avail of welfare when they are diagnosed as suffering it.



You're attitude to a grave and horrendous illness, which claims more lives in this country every year than motor accidents, is both ignorant, and hugely offensive. If you know so patehtically little about the condition, perhaps you should do everyone a favour, and either educate yourself, or shut up about it until you do?

Good to know there Was always wondering that, and sorry if i offended anyone about this but it was always a confusing subject to me.
But if I shut up, il never learn, am i right or is that just ignorance too?

Chuck Stone

candy-gal1 wrote: »

Good to know there Was always wondering that, and sorry if i offened anyone about this but it was always a confusing subject to me.
But if I shut up, il never learn, am i right or is that just ignorance too?

When you find something so serious confusing you should do your best to either learn more about it so it becomes less confusing or not make uninformed comments which may actually be hurtful to people.

Having said that we are prone to make rash comments so don't beat yourself up too much about it.

mlumley

RMD wrote: »

or are showing evidence of actively seeking employment.

440,000 out of work, where the f**k are these jobs they are all ment to be looking for?????????????

beeftotheheels

candy-gal1 wrote: »

Good to know there Was always wondering that, and sorry if i offended anyone about this but it was always a confusing subject to me.
But if I shut up, il never learn, am i right or is that just ignorance too?

Read The Bell Jar by Sylvia Plath, it will give you some idea of what it is like to live with depression.

hatz7

rossa morbeg wrote: »

The dole should be 100% percent cut for anybody that has been on it since pre 2007. I dont mean people on disabilty payments.

OP...what an idiotic statement (facepalm)
Look you started this thread, can you expand a bit, or give a bit more background to why you think it should happen?

love reading the posts saying that people would find a job if....blah blah blah,
there aren't that many jobs out there, almost half a million people on the dole!

candy-gal1

Chuck Stone wrote: »

When you find something so serious confusing you should do your best to either learn more about it so it becomes less confusing or not make uninformed comments which may actually be hurtful to people.

Having said that we are prone to make rash comments so don't beat yourself up too much about it.

ah ok, well sry to anyone I hurt then

cool, well thanks for that there

caseyann

hatz7 wrote: »

OP...what an idiotic statement (facepalm)
Look you started this thread, can you expand a bit, or give a bit more background to why you think it should happen?

love reading the posts saying that people would find a job if....blah blah blah,
there aren't that many jobs out there, almost half a million people on the dole!

Problem is people who make such statements believe all the hype and attack on the social welfare recipients and want to believe it because easy to pick on less fortunate in the world,rather than make the government dock their wages and make the bankers etc.. pay for their gambling debts.
Its everyone on social welfare needs to be punished in their eyes.
If they got out and volunteered for some work with svp they would see the low income families and social welfare people who are in majority living in poverty without clothes to go for that interview or decent pair of shoes for their kids etc.. and the ones who have no heating or dont ever ever do anything with their kids on a day out.
Then come back and say they know anything.
Now the stigma attached to it because of the dole spongers that are out there.
Knock the poorer of society what a humanitarian view.

LG3

I know people selling their methadone and tablets, for crack, rock etc., i cant report them cos they know where i live, my neighbour has had all her windows & car smashed by one of them. same person also bitten off someone's ear and got away wit it, same person told me they'd cut my troat from ear to ear over something simple. I'm not a junkie dnt even smoke. Dole money & childrens allowance also being used on drugs. Vincent de paul gives person dunnes vouchers and cheques all used for drugs.

phasers

LG3 wrote: »

I know people selling their methadone and tablets, for crack, rock etc., i cant report them cos they know where i live, my neighbour has had all her windows & car smashed by one of them. same person also bitten off someone's ear and got away wit it, same person told me they'd cut my troat from ear to ear over something simple. I'm not a junkie dnt even smoke. Dole money & childrens allowance also being used on drugs. Vincent de paul gives person dunnes vouchers and cheques all used for drugs.

Dunnes sell drugs now?

caseyann

LG3 wrote: »

I know people selling their methadone and tablets, for crack, rock etc., i cant report them cos they know where i live, my neighbour has had all her windows & car smashed by one of them. same person also bitten off someone's ear and got away wit it, same person told me they'd cut my troat from ear to ear over something simple. I'm not a junkie dnt even smoke. Dole money & childrens allowance also being used on drugs. Vincent de paul gives person dunnes vouchers and cheques all used for drugs.

I have seen that to unfortunately,reason its given is so they eat and how ever much they do drugs,those kids have to eat and need someone to make sure they do.Parents like that need either stuck in rehab or kids taken away from them.
And the people who get harassed and threatened with prison are parents who are great with their kids.
They sell off the vouchers aswell for drugs.Cheques no impossible they never make out a cheque to an individuals name must be made out to gas or electric and such.They cant get drugs for them.