Coroner calls for speed limiters to be fitted to young drivers cars

challengemaster

http://www.eecho.ie/news/ireland/coroner-calls-for-speed-limiter-technology-for-young-drivers-502748.html

The coroner for South Kerry is calling for legislation obliging all young drivers to have a speed limiter fixed to any car they are allowed to drive.

Terence Casey issued the call at the inquest into the deaths of four teenagers who died in a single vehicle crash outside Killarney last August.

17-year-old David Breen; his 15-year-old brother Kevin, 15-year-old Aine Riordain and 19-year-old Brian Coffey all died in the single vehicle crash at Carrigeen.

The inquest heard that although they had been at a party all night, alcohol was not a factor in the accident.

A Garda technical expert gave evidence that David Breen was driving between 99 and 110 kilometres an hour when he lost control of the car which skidded into a ditch and collided with tree.

Why can I see our stupid government / RSA going for this, and overlooking all the obvious issues with it. What's their problem with actually tackling the cause rather than the effect.

I'm finding it harder and harder to actually enjoy driving anymore

Eric Cartman

wow...thatll really help , fitting a speed limiter at 100km/h will just stop lads doing 140 on the motorway/ dcw and have them do 100 on a back roads instead ,

Plug

Impossible for a limiter to be fitted to most cars(with in a budget anyway).
Whats going to be the next bright idea? Bumper cars?

stephendevlin

gps tracking unit? be cheaper to produce rather than fitting limiters. police / outside vendor can use the data recorded against the zoned speed limits. Have it tamperproof and compulsary for new drivers and repeat speed offenders.

dr.fuzzenstein

That speed limiter thing gets dug out every now and then.
Yeah, yeah, we hear you grandpa, just sit down in your corner and read your book.
In the "to be trotted out every now and then" and "to be safely ignored" bracket.
"Think of the children" sort of thing.

Owen

The coroner is an idiot. The speeds quoted in this specific accident were between 99 and 110kph. So in other words, in or around the legal speed limit. So fitting a limiter would do ... ?

People speed. It's a fact of life. Road deaths are going to keep happening, which is also a fact of life. Fitting limiters will increase deaths, I guarantee it.

challengemaster

GPS units?

Where do you get them?
Who pays for them?
Who pays for fitting them?
Who maps them properly and assigns the correct speed limit to each area?
How do you know who is driving the car?
How many people do you need to hire to constantly monitor the thousands of devices being used simultaneously?
How do you pay them all?
Tamperproof? - How can it be removed/disabled if selling the car?

....
List goes on.

VolvoMan

It's just another stupid brain fart by someone involved in our government. Give it time and we won't hear about it again.

mb1725

challengemaster wrote: »

GPS units?

Where do you get them?
Who pays for them?
Who pays for fitting them?
Who maps them properly and assigns the correct speed limit to each area?
How do you know who is driving the car?
How many people do you need to hire to constantly monitor the thousands of devices being used simultaneously?
How do you pay them all?
Tamperproof? - How can it be removed/disabled if selling the car?

....
List goes on.

We might have a few less grieving parents if we had technology like that.

Owen

mb1725 wrote: »

We might have a few less grieving parents if we had technology like that.

Cause you know, GPS is infallible, and trucks don't get stuck down country lanes, and people aren't lead along seaside clifftop dead end gravel paths.

unkel

What a load of bollox. Speed limiters aren't gonna solve the problem.

The problem is that young drivers are incompetent and do stupid things. Incompetent can be fixed by better training and a stricter, more comprehensive test. Doing stupid things needs a cultural change and enforcement. Not easy, but it can be done. A few decades ago everybody drank and drove. No very few people do.

peasant

mb1725 wrote: »

We might have a few less grieving parents if we had technology like that.

My parents made sure that:

- I didn't hang out with known lunatic drivers
- I didn't go to faraway discos or nightclubs
- That I had to be home by a certain time
- That they would give me lift when the necessity / the exception to the above rules arose.

They had a grieving son ...but I'm very much alive


Edit ...that was before I drove myself

kirving

We might have less grieving parents if people learned to cop on and not act the gob****e. A spped limiter won't help in situations like that to be honest, ~100kph is under the motorway limit, and a GPS system to accurately tailor the speed limiter for every road in the country would require massive investment to ensure every road is correctly classified(boreens with 80kph limits, etc) would be proibitively expensive, never mind the rest of the questions challengemaster asked.


Were all passengers wearing seatbelts?

The car was complete shitbox too, a 1.5 star rating wouln't instill me with confidence, especically fully loaded.

http://www.euroncap.com/tests/hyundai_accent_1998/36.aspx

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjwBzx2CEps

knifey_spoonie

mb1725 wrote: »

We might have a few less grieving parents if we had technology like that.

We would also have a lot less grieving parents if a proper road/driver education scheme was put in place.

The fact of the matter is, deaths on the road are a fact of life. Fitting a limiter/monitoring device will do nothing more than make people find a lope hole in the system

As the stats have proven silly slogan's like "he drives she dies" and "the faster the speed the bigger the mess" don't work. You cant just keep shouting speed kills over and over again. It's not going to work.

People need to be educated why speed is dangerous, There is no point in saying speed is dangerous without explaining why. That's like teaching some one 2+2=4 but not explaining why 2+2=4

Eric Cartman

stephendevlin wrote: »

gps tracking unit? be cheaper to produce rather than fitting limiters. police / outside vendor can use the data recorded against the zoned speed limits. Have it tamperproof and compulsary for new drivers and repeat speed offenders.

the privacy implications of that are far to large , I love driving but If I had to have a gps tracking device fitted to my car when i was 17/18 i think i just would have walked. Gardai , insurance company , parents etc... do not have the right to know where somebody 18 or over is at all times.


no amount of technological innovations and devices can replace common sence and a bit of cop on and education - thats the only solution to this problem

Atlantic Dawn

From the information in the media from the coroners report it is fairly poor on detail...
No mention what the actual speed limit on the stretch of road was.
No mention whether the passengers had seat belts on.
No mention whether the driver had a full license or not and what was his driving experience.
No mention that the car had at max one air bag if any and was as above a poor NCAP rated car.

peasant

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

No mention that the car had at max one air bag if any and was as above a poor NCAP rated car.

Not to piss on your parade ...but even a five star car with airbags to the hilt will not let you walk away from a 100 km/h crash sideways into a tree. You'll be just as dead.

Mar4ix

another idea ... any car has speed limiter, and regardless driver, car not driving over 50 km/h i know.. stupid ... but sound

ShadowHearth

oh lord...

i just got bored to get suprised. if there would be award for idiocy then RSA and goverment would be best bet for it...:rolleyes:

AugustusMinimus

This crash was clearly caused by a complete disrespect for both the road conditions and the road layout in general by the driver. The driver (if reports are correct) was likely not speeding within the letter of the law.

We need to get away from the notion that if we stick to the speed limit then we will be fine. We'd be a lot better off if more motorists had a bit of cop on and common sense. The vast majority of accidents would be avoided if we did.

Ridiculous comment about limiting the top speed of cars for young drivers, given the circumstances. You have to wonder how the coroner got to where he has got to given his appauling logic.

CashMoney

Why aren't all cars imported into Ireland cars limited 120kmh? They should be. It is the highest speed limit after all.

OK it won't stop stop people doing 120kmh on the backroads. But, it will stop doing 140kmh on the backroads and 160kmh on the motorways.

timt

jeese thats funny, because top speed has nothing to do with it at all. What an imbecile that coroner is . Yeah it'll stop lads doing 140kmh on a back road, but theyre going to make just as big of a mess doing 120kmh. Doing 160kmh on a motorway (depending on the car) is not a safety issue at all. Its illegal, but not dangerous.

3 problems with speed limiters
- Top speed isn't the problem, Judgement is. A bit of cop on goes a long way.
- What happens if you try to overtake someone?
- The people who speed and generally don't care for much will be able to bypass it. So once again it'll only affect those of us who play by the rules.

AugustusMinimus

CashMoney wrote: »

Why aren't all cars imported into Ireland cars limited 120kmh? They should be. It is the highest speed limit after all.

OK it won't stop stop people doing 120kmh on the backroads. But, it will stop doing 140kmh on the backroads and 160kmh on the motorways.

But there are hardly any crashes at all on motorways, and especially not those that cause death.

The issue is on back roads and as you've said, a limiter will do jack **** about it.

Would you also mandate that everyone in the country may have to go and spend a couple of thousand euros to update their old car to work with the limiter.

Would you also care that the cost of a new car would shoot up due to the added expense of adding a limiter ?

I'm sure mechanics would love it though considering all the new work they'd get from removing the ****ing things.

Caliden

Speed alone doesn't kill, careless driving is just as much, if not more, of a factor than speed.

CashMoney

timt wrote: »

jeese thats funny, because top speed has nothing to do with it at all. What an imbecile that coroner is . Yeah it'll stop lads doing 140kmh on a back road, but theyre going to make just as big of a mess doing 120kmh. Doing 160kmh on a motorway (depending on the car) is not a safety issue at all. Its illegal, but not dangerous.

The faster the speed, the more liklihood of serious injury. Plus, there is more stopping time available driving at 120 rather than 140. Driving at 160 rather tahn 120 on any road is more dangerous obviously. Anybody who tries to tell you otherwise is a fool.

timt wrote: »

3 problems with speed limiters
- Top speed isn't the problem, Judgement is. A bit of cop on goes a long way.

Unfortunately we can't write cop on into law. That's we need actual laws.

timt wrote: »

- What happens if you try to overtake someone?

It's still not legal to go over the speed limit. If you have to break the speed limit to overtake, then you shouldn't be overtaking.

timt wrote: »

- The people who speed and generally don't care for much will be able to bypass it. So once again it'll only affect those of us who play by the rules.

The average driver who speeds (and there are a lot of them) are unlikely to bother bypassing the limiter. I'm sure this could be enforced through NCT anyway who could fail any car that looks like it's been tampered with.

OldmanMondeo

Speed limiters could be fitted to all cars. The place I work for imports them and sells them on to registered installers. You would be looking at the guts of €1k to supply and install a limiter, then a few hundred every year for calibration. So it can be done, but is not the answer.

If they really want to "spy" on young drivers, then have a Digital Tacho, similar to the units used in trucks and buses. Information can be downloaded, as to time of day, speed, hours driving. It will not give GPS location, but I am sure this could be developed. Insurance companies would then be able to get a profile of the driver from downloads. The Gardai would also be able to check the tacho to again see what type of driver they are dealing with.

At the end of the day, nothing will stop a driver exceeding the speed limit, nothing will stop the driver taking needless risks.

stephendevlin

challengemaster wrote: »

GPS units?

Where do you get them?
Who pays for them?
Who pays for fitting them?
Who maps them properly and assigns the correct speed limit to each area?
How do you know who is driving the car?
How many people do you need to hire to constantly monitor the thousands of devices being used simultaneously?
How do you pay them all?
Tamperproof? - How can it be removed/disabled if selling the car?

....
List goes on.

Develop software (outside vendor) to offset the area/speedlimit and when it crosses that limit ie you speed then a notification goes out (less sorting less people) Raise money through fining system use an ouside vendor to facilitate

Have the new driver assign a car. ie parents car etc
If the parents are cought over the speed limit they can nominate the youngster or take the hit themselves.

Have it tamperproof and if the car is being sold then they would have it removed by maybe an outside vendor (like the speed vans)

have it for the first year / 2 years and fines for people who dont comply.

Change insurance to suit.

Drive 1 car and 1 car only. no other car extension (leads to young people driving big engined cars)

im sure this can be done im sure there will be issues but if you knew your every move (speedwise) was being monitored would you speed?

challengemaster

*sigh*

You, Sir, have a very simplistic view of speeding and probably life.

KamiKazi

Bikers are already limited to 33BHP while on learner permit and for two years after passing the test. Wouldn't be suprised if they brought something similar in for cars.

stephendevlin

challengemaster wrote: »

*sigh*

You, Sir, have a very simplistic view of speeding and probably life.

Who was that at?

challengemaster

KamiKazi wrote: »

Bikers are already limited to 33BHP while on learner permit and for two years after passing the test. Wouldn't be suprised if they brought something similar in for cars.

Still irrelavent tbh - if anything it's probably worse. You can still get a punto or any other car with 70-90bhp up to 180km/hr on a motorway, or over the speed limit on normal roads. That in itself isn't the problem, it's the fact those cars aren't capable of handling well or stopping quickly enough under those circumstances. Tipping along a 100km/hr road at 120 isn't going to kill someone, acting the muppet vastly increases those chances though.

I firmly believe that if high powered cars were more readily available to young drivers, first off the amount of messing would decrease. Between people actually having a decent car that they can be proud of and care for, to knowing if they put the foot down they have power - less need to prove themselves at every opportunity. The other benefit is that, if people do act stupidly in these cars, they're for the most part a lot better than a crap box like a punto for it. Having massive stopping power and good handling available would definitely improve the situation.

The other issue is there's a severe lack of motorsport acceptance by the general population, and as such, there's a severe lack of places to safely have fun in your car. A day in mondello (ignoring the new €50 training course thingy), while it has come down, is still insanely expensive on an international level, which isn't exactly encouraging people to do the right thing.

Same thing with drifting - people complain about noise and take a NIMBY approach, yet complain when there's tyre marks on the road from people taking the only option left available with a severe lack of tracks.

Country is backwards in so, so many ways it's not funny.

opinion guy

challengemaster wrote: »

GPS units?

Where do you get them?
Who pays for them?
Who pays for fitting them?
Who maps them properly and assigns the correct speed limit to each area?
How do you know who is driving the car?
How many people do you need to hire to constantly monitor the thousands of devices being used simultaneously?
How do you pay them all?
Tamperproof? - How can it be removed/disabled if selling the car?

....
List goes on.

Errrr - you could just interrogate their iphones perhaps ??????:D

Tigger

KamiKazi wrote: »

Bikers are already limited to 33BHP while on learner permit and for two years after passing the test. Wouldn't be suprised if they brought something similar in for cars.

it would make sense, limit all cars to 33bhp till the driver has done two years with a full lisence

Eric Cartman

Tigger wrote: »

it would make sense, limit all cars to 33bhp till the driver has done two years with a full lisence

trabants for all

Tigger

was the car being legal ie did the drivef have a license or a sober and licensed accompaning person

i doubt it tbh

so inforce the law simples

Tigger

acually i have an idea: instead of having all the sPeed checks on big open roads we should put them on side roads

AugustusMinimus

Tigger wrote: »

was the car being legal ie did the drivef have a license or a sober and licensed accompaning person

i doubt it tbh

so inforce the law simples

This x1000

What the hell happened to the Gardai supposedly clamping down on learner drivers, driving un accompanied.

There are as many on the roads these days as ever before.

Flyer1

I just don't understand this. No matter what measures government take you will never stop people being killed on roads. People will act the idiot regardless of what you do.

I'm 20, my car is capable of doing 165mph all day long, capable of getting to 60mph in 4 - 5 seconds and does a standing 1/4 mile in 13 seconds. However I am driving almost 4 years, never had an accident, never had points, i've never been pulled for acting the idiot. I take all the abuse out on my car in mondello and at legal drag events and then for every other day I treat the car as a normal car and obey speed limits.

It's all about driver attitude. I never feel the need to show off to anyone, simply because I couldn't give a fcuk what someone thinks of me or my car.

No measures will ever stop the feeling that 17/18 year old gets when he/she is first on the road with their first car that they have freedom. However as experience is gained they will calm down. Simple as.

Providing better driver education will definitely help resolve this issue, not a stupid speed limit on cars that could never be policed.

stephendevlin

challengemaster wrote: »

I firmly believe that if high powered cars were more readily available to young drivers, first off the amount of messing would decrease. Between people actually having a decent car that they can be proud of and care for, to knowing if they put the foot down they have power - less need to prove themselves at every opportunity. The other benefit is that, if people do act stupidly in these cars, they're for the most part a lot better than a crap box like a punto for it. Having massive stopping power and good handling available would definitely improve the situation.
.

Theres the answer right there. give all the young ones high powered cars :rolleyes:

Bad enough them trying to max out the speed in whatever 1.0 1.2 cars

timt

Hes refering to the fact that 'high powered cars' can handle the speed and are less likely to end up in a tree. If you accept the fact that some people will speed no matter what, his point is valid. Your less likely to crash a 530d going round a bend at 100kmh than a fiat punto, because the car was designed for it.

Ideally giving learners a good chassis and brakes from such a car, but restricting the engine would be the ideal case. Unfortunately its also a pipe dream.

Your right about not being able to write cop on into law, but thats my point. It shouldn't have to be law, its called education. Its in everyones interest that you don't crash, teaching them a bit about judgement and basic vehicle dynamics (overloading etc) would go a lot farther than nannying speed limiters.

Ive already explained why speed limiters wont work, care to make any other suggestions?

FYI overtaking should be done smoothly but also as quickly as possible, which usually means going over the speed limit.

Voodoomelon

I only have one question. When are the RSA going to stop talking sh1te and actually do something about driver education? It is the only thing that matters. They can keep ranting on with their stupid ad campaigns for the next 20 years and nothing will change, if you look at it from that point of view, what are the RSA even for?

The amount of revenue wasted by the RSA, and the amount of revenue being brought in by these "safety" cameras could go a long, long way towards a new licensing system with a new learner system and a refresher course system.

Its easily doable, why don't they? I genuinely dispair because The RSA is such a waste of money, I find their attempts at improving road safety laughable and insulting.

Seth Brundle

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

From the information in the media from the coroners report it is fairly poor on detail...
No mention what the actual speed limit on the stretch of road was.

* It was the Killarney to Mallow Road (N71) which is 100km/h
* The IT reports that

The sole survivor of the crash, Darragh Jones, said David Breen had been driving “flat out” and that “the car was hopping off the road” just before the crash.

URL="http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0426/breaking44.html"]source[/URL

ShadowHearth wrote: »

oh lord...

i just got bored to get suprised. if there would be award for idiocy then RSA and goverment would be best bet for it...

What has the RSA or the government got to do with this thread?

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

But there are hardly any crashes at all on motorways, and especially not those that cause death.

The issue is on back roads and as you've said, a limiter will do jack **** about it.

It wasn't a back road!

timt wrote: »

jeese thats funny, because top speed has nothing to do with it at all. What an imbecile that coroner is . Yeah it'll stop lads doing 140kmh on a back road, but theyre going to make just as big of a mess doing 120kmh. Doing 160kmh on a motorway (depending on the car) is not a safety issue at all. Its illegal, but not dangerous.

I'm not saying that I agree with the idea. However, the coroners job is to help prevent a repeat of having people turn up on slabs in his office. The driver in this case appeared to be showing off. In this case he was stupid but you can't legislate for this so you have to prevent idiots like this fella killing others by using alternative methods.
So the options available are to reduce speed by reducing the BHP (but not necessarily limiting speed) or by reducing the available speed.

Voodoomelon wrote: »

I only have one question. When are the RSA going to stop talking sh1te and actually do something about driver education? It is the only thing that matters. They can keep ranting on with their stupid ad campaigns for the next 20 years and nothing will change, if you look at it from that point of view, what are the RSA even for?

The amount of revenue wasted by the RSA, and the amount of revenue being brought in by these "safety" cameras could go a long, long way towards a new licensing system with a new learner system and a refresher course system.

Its easily doable, why don't they? I genuinely dispair because The RSA is such a waste of money, I find their attempts at improving road safety laughable and insulting.

They are looking at the education of drivers. However, when they announce new initiatives, there are threads on ehre bitching about how Gaybo can shove the idea up his arse.

angelfire9

According to the RTE news the vehicle they crashed was actually stolen so it could have belonged to a 60 year old granny who was tucked up in bed during the party
Speed limiters won't stop idiots nicking cars in fact if limiters were fitted to all cars registered to under 25's I reckon mammy and daddy's cars would be nicked even more often!
If it wasn't so bloody expensive I think Tachographs would be a good idea for all cars then when there is a fatal accident we'd know for sure if speed was a factor eg) the speed of the car at time of impact would be known not estimated
Plus you could produce your Tacho at insurance renewal time for reduced premiums for careful drivers and if stopped by cops at a checkpoint an examination of the Tacho readings would be enough to warrant a prosecution for speeding (in a manner similar to current speeding fines the driver of the car at the time of the speeding would be needed) (I'd be talking about speeds in excess of 120km on the Tacho before anyone mentions road specific limits)
That might slow a few fools down a bit

workingstudent

I'm 19 passed my test just before I turned 18.when I was in transition year (year before last) we went to a road safetly conference organised by the hospital guards and other emergency services. They had a mock car accident scene set up in the hotel car park and we all watched what the emergency services would do,they even cut the people out of the cars. We had the conference then where we heard different perspectives on people affected by road accidents, a&e doctor, guards ect and we also saw videos.

My suggestion- make sure all young people get to see one of these presentations... I still remember some of the stories and it made me realise I wouldn't like to put my family in a situation like that.

Education is way more important than talks of speed limiters ect, in my opinion anyway. It definitly has made me a careful driver after seeing all the horror stories.

ZENER

My money is on Darwin tbh. If idiots are given lethal weapons then they will ultimately cause them selves or others harm.

Raise the driving age to 21 and be done with it. That and introduce drivers education as part of the national curriculum and make it an exam subject at Junior and Leaving Cert levels. An unpopular POV I dare say but I'm tired of seeing white crucifixes at the side of roads. I presume they are there to warn people of the dangers but they don't. To the boy racers they are a challenge. A challenge to do better than the guy who was killed.

Why blame the RSA or the authorities for human error ? Laws are broken all the time, if they're not we're looking for ways to circumvent them - browse the threads here !! Bald tyres, cars in poor condition, the cost of repairs over-riding the safety to the driver and the general public . . . come on people wise up, take responsibility for your actions or at least admit that these idiots involved in one car accidents did so because they did something stupid out of inexperience and need education not cheaper insurance.

Stereo typing isn't the problem here, it's the decisions made by people who consider themselves "old enough" to be in control of a dangerous weapon - and a car is a dangerous weapon the the hands of an inexperienced driver or a drunk.

Mature drivers with zero points on their license need only reply . . .

Ken

opinion guy

ZENER wrote: »

My money is on Darwin tbh. If idiots are given lethal weapons then they will ultimately cause them selves or others harm.

Raise the driving age to 21 and be done with it. That and introduce drivers education as part of the national curriculum and make it an exam subject at Junior and Leaving Cert levels. An unpopular POV I dare say but I'm tired of seeing white crucifixes at the side of roads. I presume they are there to warn people of the dangers but they don't. To the boy racers they are a challenge. A challenge to do better than the guy who was killed.

Why blame the RSA or the authorities for human error ? Laws are broken all the time, if they're not we're looking for ways to circumvent them - browse the threads here !! Bald tyres, cars in poor condition, the cost of repairs over-riding the safety to the driver and the general public . . . come on people wise up, take responsibility for your actions or at least admit that these idiots involved in one car accidents did so because they did something stupid out of inexperience and need education not cheaper insurance.

Stereo typing isn't the problem here, it's the decisions made by people who consider themselves "old enough" to be in control of a dangerous weapon - and a car is a dangerous weapon the the hands of an inexperienced driver or a drunk.

Mature drivers with zero points on their license need only reply . . .

Ken

What evidence is there that raising the driving age would make any difference ? 21 year olds can be just as thick as 17 year olds. Its a training problem not an age problem

ZENER

opinion guy wrote: »

What evidence is there that raising the driving age would make any difference ? 21 year olds can be just as thick as 17 year olds. Its a training problem not an age problem

I think I referred to that in my post as well ! You read what you wanted to object to I think ?

Ken

angelfire9

ZENER wrote: »

Stereo typing isn't the problem here, it's the decisions made by people who consider themselves "old enough" to be in control of a dangerous weapon - and a car is a dangerous weapon the the hands of an inexperienced driver or a drunk.

Im Over 30 y.o. With 0 points and 0 convictions but "mature" makes me sound old

Anyway back on topic....

I agree with what I quoted above

But, I don't think changing the age to 21 would make a damn bit if difference except that the demographics of road fatalities would change slightly
Driver behaviour won't IMHO

It's the "attitude" of some young drivers male & female
Their supposed "immortality" and the fact that they think doing figures if 8 on the motorways in the middle if the night makes them a) cool and b) able to handle a car at high speeds!

It's an awful pity we don't have closed roads somewhere (kinda like a track designed for teaching practical driving skills) where little boy and girl racers could practice high speed maneuvers and see how hard it is to avoid that artificial horse that jumps in front of you or the robot child who dashes across the road as you come around the corner or even simple stuff like an unexpected oil spill or severe water on the roads

Gregsor

I don't think it is a bad idea and if my son or daughter were of the driving age i would insist on it if it was thought out properly.

But say they decided to overtake in a 100Kph speed zone and the car limited and and put them in danger on the wrong side of the road?

I also have to say i feel rather no threat from young drivers on the roads and more from the over confident "i haven't had a crash in my life i am not going to now" folk who put our every day lives in risk along with theirs and their driving antics.

The younger generation tend to be at their worst behaviour when most folk have left the road for the day and then their ego takes hold then the tragedies happen.

I am up for any incentive that may curb the road deaths here just a few logical ones please.

Atomic Pineapple

Its purely a training and attitude problem, but the overriding issue here is that a bunch of young people with no insurance, no driving licences etc... took a car that wasn't theirs and went joyriding they then happened to hit a tree and kill all but one in the car.

No speed limiter is going to stop someone from stealing a car and going joy riding, I cant see how this incident can be seen as part of the normal statistics when it isn't. A speed limiter would have had no positive effect in this case at all.

And using this case to make a statement that all young drivers should be limited in speed because of it is nothing other than an insult to young drivers who work hard to pay for cars and insurance.

angelfire9

The term "joyriding" should be banned!
There's nothing joyful for the car owner who has their car nicked

Nothing "joyful" in idiots driving stolen uninsured cars like maniacs

And nothing "joyful" in the road carnage caused by car thieves because at the end of the day that's what they are... Thieves!!!

/rant over