Trans Jacks

WindSock

Does anyone have an issue with transgendered females using the women's toilets, I wonder? I can't imagine many women would in this day and age that I have come across, but there must be ones that do for whatever reasons....any trans females have their experiences to share?

Shield

Is your thread open for "anyone" to answer (as the first question indicates), or only for "trans females" to answer (as the last question indicates)?

Either way, you could be doing this...

WindSock

It's a question intended toward females and their views on transgendered females using the womens toilets, I think this is the most appropriate forum to ask to be honest. Not trying to stir worms just curious if any females out there would have an issue with it...and also as the op asks if any tg's would like to share their experiences...

(just a thought that came to mind while reading of the tg woman being beaten in mcd's)

Acoshla

I would have no issue at all with transgender females using the women's bathrooms, they see themselves as women, live as women so I consider them to be women, and to be totally honest from what I've heard and seen of the world life can be hard enough for transgender people, I wouldn't want to make it any harder for them by denying them basic things like this.

That girl being beaten in the McDonald's was awful, poor thing.

chickenbutt

I wouldn't care, and probably wouldn't even notice tbh... I generally don't pay much attention to anyone in the bathrooms. I've got more important things on my mind.

sam34

wouldn't remotely bother me.

Wouldn't notice wouldn't care

Pembily

How could it bother you - we're all in cubicles, it's not like they can look at you semi naked or anything... Not being smart but I actually can't comprehend how this is an issue

WindSock

No it isn't really an issue at all, on sober reflection its not a terribly good idea for a thread....just got me thinking after seeing the clip. I can't imagine now it'd be a problem for anyone really.
But I wonder if any tg have had negative experiences from women?

Acoshla

Pembily wrote: »

How could it bother you - we're all in cubicles, it's not like they can look at you semi naked or anything... Not being smart but I actually can't comprehend how this is an issue

I think it's just that some people/women would see them as men, and would then think it was weird to see men in the general public bathroom area. I for example get very uncomfortable if I see a man accidentally wander into a women's bathroom, not realise, and use the bathroom etc, it just seems odd to have one lone man in there! That probably comes from when I used to frequent a seedy enough nightclub and men would wander in just to get a look and stuff So if you were the type of person who was uncomfortable with transgender people you might see her (hypothetical transgender woman) as a man in your ladies' bathroom.

You know how some people think that if someone is gay they are attracted to every person of the same sex (guys who think a gay guy will fancy them just because they're a man)? I think the same kind of thing happens some people with issues like this, if that makes any sense. Things are black and white for them (or they just don't understand it for whatever reason) and all they see is a man in the women's bathroom. Although I bet most people wouldn't even notice a transgender woman unless it was pointed out to them, at which point they might then become indignant. I have known many a straight man to get on fine with another man, then when they later hear the man is gay they get all weird and assume the gay man fancied them and it makes them uncomfortable.

Sure just look at the time Ray D'Arcy spoke to that really tall model, Eve, or Amazon Eve, or something. He was openly flirting with her over the phone, then after he spoke to her he was told she was born a man, he got seriously freaked out, back tracking and stuff.

SarahBeep!

I wouldn't ask any lady (whether she has boy bits or not) to use a male bathroom. They stink....

rainbow kirby

Don't have a problem with it at all. Present as female, pee as female.

Annasopra

Over in the after hours thread this guy was saying that he was all for trans rights but that M2F shouldn't be allowed to use the women's toilets basically because Noone with with a penis should be allowed in there while women are there. I find this very very strange

Kadongy

but what if they p!ss on the seat

rainbow kirby

Kadongy wrote: »

but what if they p!ss on the seat

Plenty of ciswomen do that too :eek:

Links234

psni wrote: »

Either way, you could be doing this...

It's not After Hours I've got far more faith in the posters of TLL

WindSock wrote: »

any trans females have their experiences to share?

Not personally, no, but public bathrooms can be dangerous places for trans people, and when trans women are forced to use men's facilities it can often result in physical altercations and sexual assault.

funnily enough I've known a few non-trans women who've had altercations in the ladies room because people perceived them to be male. an ex-girlfriend of mine was thrown out of the ladies room in a niteclub because someone thought she was a guy, and another woman I knew was literally shoved out of the ladies room in a pub by other patrons on account of her looking a bit butch.


but the whole argument seems pretty silly to me when you get into it. like, if you were male assigned at birth you're supposed to use the mens room, and if you were female assigned at birth you're supposed to use the ladies room... I don't think people who make that kind of argument really thinks it through

because on that logic, this guy would have to use the ladies:



and this girl would have to use the mens:



I wonder which of the two would look more out of place in the ladies room?

Orla K

I'd have no problem with it.

I would have a problem in a changing room, mainly because there is one m2f in this town and I really just wouldn't trust her. She's intrested in women and can be quite forward about things. I don't want to get naked in front of her but I don't actually think it's anything to do with her being transgender.

Links234

Orla K wrote: »

I would have a problem in a changing room

I'd say most transgender women wouldn't use a communal changing room, or showers or anything, the last thing any of us would want is to have our bodies on display. I can't ever see myself using communal showers.

but on the subject of toilets, this is an extremely touching article:

A Dad Testifies for his Transgender Teen Daughter

My name is Wayne Maines, I live in Old Town. I have a 13-year-old transgender daughter. In the beginning, I was not onboard with this reality. Like many of you I doubted transgender children could exist, I doubted my wife and I doubted our counselors and doctors. However I never doubted my love for my child. It was only through observing her pain and her suffering and examining my lack of knowledge about these issues did I begin to question my behavior and my conservative values. I learned that the medical standard of care requires parents seek assistance from a panel of experts. We did this and our team of doctors recommended my daughter to live fully as a girl. We cannot turn back now. When my daughter lost her privileges at school and both children and adults targeted her, I knew I had to change and I have never looked back.

When we moved to Maine, it was clear my daughter was transitioning from male to female with us or without us. She used the girl's bathroom with no fanfare; she was confident and very social. Her strong personality helped the entire school transition right along side of her. She was proud and secure with herself and when people asked at the young age of six she openly stated that she was a girl trapped in a boy's body.

The transformation was amazing, but her happiness would not last. Unfortunately the fears of others would destroy everything that our team of doctors, teachers, school counselors, friends and classmates had work so hard to establish.

I know that it is difficult for some of you to understand the needs of transgender children. You only need to spend some time with these kids to see that they are struggling and suffering beyond your imagination only because they are singled out and misunderstood. They are just like your children and grandchildren; they have the same hopes and the same dreams.

In the fifth grade because of significant negative exposure we had to take drastic measures to protect her from harm, including splitting our family up to go in hiding and we are not the only family that has had to do so. When she was told she could no longer use the appropriate bathroom her confidence and self-esteem took a major hit. Prior to this my daughter often said, "Dad being transgender is no big deal, my friends and I have it under control." I was very proud of her. It was only when adults became involved with their unfounded fears that her world would be turned upside down. "She came to me crying and asked, "Daddy what did I do wrong? Daddy please fix this?" That is what dads do -- we fix things. I had to break her heart and say, "You have not done anything wrong sweetie, but Mommy and I do not know how to fix this, but we will try."

Continuing to single these kids out is not necessary. Having the opportunity to use the bathrooms of their true gender is essential for these kids' well being. This bill places transgender children in a position of doom and hopelessness. This bill tells my daughter that she does not have the same rights as her classmates and reinforces her opinion that she has no future. Help me give her the future she deserves. Do not pass this bill.

And here's another article from a while ago, Father of a Transgender Tween Speaks out

baby and crumble

I would have a problem in a changing room, mainly because there is one m2f in this town and I really just wouldn't trust her. She's intrested in women and can be quite forward about things. I don't want to get naked in front of her but I don't actually think it's anything to do with her being transgender.

It's to do with her being gay then? By this logic then lesbians and gay guys should have their own changing rooms and what have you...

I freely admit I NEVER look at other girls bodies when they are naked (apart from the one I'm allowed to, obviously! ) It would be weird. But just because I fancy girls does that mean I need a separate changing room?

Orla K

zoegh wrote: »

It's to do with her being gay then? By this logic then lesbians and gay guys should have their own changing rooms and what have you...

I freely admit I NEVER look at other girls bodies when they are naked (apart from the one I'm allowed to, obviously! ) It would be weird. But just because I fancy girls does that mean I need a separate changing room?

No, I think it's really just her she can be very friendly and it's not good, it makes people feel uncomfortable around her. It's sad really because of the people that don't care about the she being born a he, the whole overfriendlyness puts people off her and I would guess she's fairly lonely(family won't talk to her too)

The only reason I thought of it was because I saw her in the gym one day but I've never seen her back.

Azureus

As for transgender female using the ladies, would not give a damn. Proabably wouldnt notice for one thing, and I couldnt care less anyway. What harm could they possibly do? I really dont see the issue here.

I also dont have an issue with sharing changing rooms with gay women either, seeing how the above statements have kind of ventured into that issue.

parker kent

SarahBeep! wrote: »

I wouldn't ask any lady (whether she has boy bits or not) to use a male bathroom. They stink....

As a former cleaner of toilets in college, I disagree!

LegacyUser

I know this is slightly off topic but I dont think it deserves a thread of its own.

I'm constantly amazed as to why their is a need for separate Toilets in a lot of locations. Like take at a cinema why is there a need for a separate male and female toilet? Is it just to conform to the social norm?

I can see the need for separate toilets in places where alcohol is likely to be consumed but in other places I dont see the need, everyone would be in separate cubicles so its not like you can see anything.

Maybe I'm missing something?

sam34

Spadina wrote: »

it just seems odd to have one lone man in there! That probably comes from when I used to frequent a seedy enough nightclub and men would wander in just to get a look and stuff

what would they see in the ladies loo (given that there are cubicles) that they wouldnt see on the dancefloor?

Aoifey!

I really don't see how anyone could have an issue with it since there are seperate cubicles.

diddlybit

MFToilet? wrote: »

I'm constantly amazed as to why their is a need for separate Toilets in a lot of locations.

This confuses me too. I don't understand why there aren't more unisex toilets. it would probably help with the horribly long queues for the ladies that the gents never appear to have.

Agree with Links though, I think women that read as quite masculine in their gender presenatation, would have more problems in the ladies bathrooms than transwomen.

Neyite

I would prefer a transgender woman to use a ladies toilet. I think its disgraceful to make them use the mens.

And even if some women get the hump - whats to be seen? someone hogging the mirror putting on makeup? everything in a girls toilet thats intimate is done behind a closed, (usually locked) cubicle door anyway.

sam34

sam34 wrote: »

what would they see in the ladies loo (given that there are cubicles) that they wouldnt see on the dancefloor?

All the lesbian action we all clearly get up to in private, of course

Lucyfur

Wouldn't bother me in the slightest. Nor would a transgender woman/man using a communal shower or dressing room.

Pembily

In Ruby's in Cork the ladies are unisex and it doesn't bother me at all! Also depending on my need to pee I've gone into the men's and I've never looked at them, I go in to pee and nothing else!

As said before what can they see when you're in a cubicle??

boomkatalog

Wouldn't bother me in the slightest. As far as I'm concerned, they're female, I'm female, the bathroom is for females.

I don't think it'd bother me in a communal shower either. Although he idea of showering with other people is horrific to me, sharing it with a transgender woman, be she pre or post op, would be none of my business really. Same with using a communal shower with lesbian women. Firstly, I more than likely won't know they're sexual preference or that they're transgender (why would I be staring at someones crotch area in a communcal shower :pac:), and secondly it won't have any bearing on my toilet-going/showering experience!

Actually with bathrooms, I don't think I'd care about using a unisex bathroom either once it was all cubicles and no urinals! The only thing that'd bother me is if the doors were the sort where you can see out the sides while you pee :eek: ( the bathrooms in America, WHY do I want to see who's queing while I pee??) but that'd bother me no matter who was in the bathroom.

That's a very long and round-about way of saying no, it wouldn't bother me in the slightest

Links234

I really have to say a big thank you to the posters of The Ladies Lounge, the response here has been absolutely wonderful and genuinely heartwarming

I don't know if I could fully impart to you just how scary public toilets are for transgender people, but they can be absolutely terrifying. That horrible incident of the girl in McDonalds being brutalized and beaten and kicked in the head to the point of seizure is just one example of many, there was this incident last year, Man attacks transgender college student, carves "IT" into his chest, in 2006, a manager of McDonald's in NYC beat transgender woman Chrstina Sforza with a metal pipe, just for using the ladies, and there's a lot more that just doesn't get reported. I've heard some absolute horror stories from other trans people online that you wouldn't believe. Bathrooms are terrifying for trans people, but for most I assume the right to go to the bathroom in peace is something you just take for granted?

Personally, I'm between a rock and a hard place. I'm very early in my transition, and I still use the men's bathrooms. For now, I still pass as male generally, but I'm going to get to the point where it's going to be pretty noticeable that I'm not male, and when that point comes it's going to get pretty dangerous for me to use the men's room. But it's also gonna be pretty dangerous for me to use the ladies room if it looks like I don't belong there either. I'll be walking a line there, if you know what I mean? And it's quite scary because if I ever did get into any kind of altercation in a mens room, with HRT physically I'm not any stronger than any other woman, and a man could easily overpower me. On top of that, add general uncomfortableness and anxieties over using a mens room in the first place... I've had panic attacks going to the toilet before. Scary places.

But I'd be very nervous about using the ladies either, not just because of the threat of any kind of attack, but because I'd be terrified that I'd make anyone else feel uncomfortable, anxious or intimidated, which I might if it looked like I didn't belong there. The very last thing I'd want to do is make another woman feel threatened or scared in a bathroom, because I know exactly how that feels and it is absolutely not good. So it's gonna take a while before I ever build up the confidence to use the ladies. There's one girl I know, she's not even started HRT yet, doesn't really pass, but she uses the ladies and I've no idea how she has the confidence/moxy to do it, because I know she's been called on it before, and she's stood her ground. I'd be absolutely mortified if it were me.

So really, it's just really wonderful to see that nobody so far has any problem with trans women using women's toilets, and that actually means a lot. I was actually kinda afraid to read this thread at first when I saw it, because I'd be afraid that anyone might have a problem, and I'll be honest, that would hurt. So thank you.

enda1

I'd have a far bigger problem with women using the men's toilets than trans-women using the female toilets.

The apparent disregard for the privacy of men in the semi-public male toilets is shocking to be honest and to imagine the contrary situation of a man walking into the women's where everything is compartmentalised and the ensuing shitstorm... Beggar's belief.

we'llallhavetea_old

nope, wouldnt have an issue with it, but then, i think seperate male and female toilets are silly anyway.

Maple

Would I have a problem with it? No.

Would I be a little startled if I twigged a transgender woman in the ladies? Yes.

Only because it's not something I "usually" see, it's not the "norm" for me. But would I make a big song and dance about it? Not in the slightest. I think that, given the animosity and prejudice they face in their transition, they are very brave and courageous people to undertake such a journey.

I think it shameful that a transgender woman be made use the mens toilets, it's humiliating and degrading and only serving to make them stand out, highlight the fact that they're "different", draw people's attention to them in a derogatory fashion, have people whisper about them.

It would be like my thinking that a lesbian using the same bathroom as me automatically fancies me and is going to be found peering over the top of the cubicle at me, as I pee, driven mad with lust by my lovely lady parts. In other words, a complete fallacy.

baby and crumble

I agree, actually, that the more traditionally 'butch' girls might face a tough time in the female loos than some tg girls. I mean I look a HELL of a lot more masculine than most TG women.

And I second the notion that single sex toilets are odd. Remember though when Ally McBeal was on, one of the 'weird' things about their office was the unisex loos? hah.

I also think it's really horrible when women on nights out run in and use the mens toilets, it's really disrespectful since the guys have urinals.

Michellenman

I have no problem with trans women using ladies toilets, what else would they use sure?

Off topic but @Zoegh, unisex toilets are all we have over here (France) in bars, clubs, restaurants. That includes urinals and cubicles, there's never been any trouble that I've been aware of and it's been surprisingly easy to get used to. The only seperate sex toilets I've seen here was in a shopping centre.

lil'bug

There is a M2F transgender girl where i work, some people didn't want her to use the ladies loo (why i don't know) so she used the disabled bathroom, she is post op now and is doing well

shinikins

^^^^
Are people still insisting she not use the womens loo now that she's transitioned fully? I can kind of(at a stretch) understand why someone might be uncomfortable while she was pre-op but she's completely female now, surely people aren't that cruel??


I have no problem with a transgendered, transvestite or otherwise "different" person using the womens toilets. I've used the mens plenty of times on nights out and there's never been a problem, so I'd want to be a right hypocrite to say any different. I've never understood why Unisex toilets can be used on the continent with no problems, yet here in Ireland i've seen girls freak out if a man put his head around the door of a ladies toilet! It's not a sacred temple, we're all just sitting on the pot to have a widdle!!!

Links234

That's awful lil'bug

but sadly, that's kinda the world we live in and to be expected really, this is an article from just today: Barred For Life From The Cosmopolitan For Being Transgender.

deirdre_dub

WindSock wrote: »

any trans females have their experiences to share?

I've been using the female toilets for about 30 months now, and I've been using them constantly for about a year.

Naturally, the very first time, I was scared sh1tless. I was completely p1ssed, and I just went for it. It was in a gay bar in Manchester, and the toilets were awful!!!

Since then, any time I was out presenting as Deirdre, I would use the female toilets, and any time I was presenting as that douchebag , I would use the male toilets. There was only one time I can recall where I decided to not use the toilets at all because I was scared, and that was in a shopping centre in Manchester (again), though the fact that there was a big queue quite possibly also had something to do with it.

I've never ever had hassle. Having said that, one of my trans friends had a security guard in the Dragon pub (a gay bar) in Dublin stopping her from going into the women's toilets and directing her to the mens! She reported him to management, and it was quickly sorted out. Indeed, the only times I've heard of trans women getting hassle is from security guards. They seem to think that there is a greater chance that we would cause problems in the women's than that someone else would cause problems for us in the men's! :rolleyes:

Taking up what Links said above, the key is to not look like you don't belong there. And, if you are female, be it cis-female or trans-female, you belong. End of story.

lil'bug

shinikins wrote: »

^^^^
Are people still insisting she not use the womens loo now that she's transitioned fully? I can kind of(at a stretch) understand why someone might be uncomfortable while she was pre-op but she's completely female now, surely people aren't that cruel??

She's using the ladies loo now TBH most of the staff use the disabled loo's because they are a hell of a lot nicer then the ladies loo's

Aoifums

It wouldn't bother me. I don't think I'd say anything to anyone even if I thought they were a guy just in case I was wrong. Like I saw someone who I presumed was male (very masculine looking, guys clothes, flat chested and guyish body movements) queueing with me for the ladies once. I just assumed they were f2m and the guys bathrooms didn't have any cubicles. Maybe I was wrong but it wasn't an issue. I'd never say anything to anyone.
Unisex bathrooms are usually fine. But I don't like them on nights out.

JeeLuna

I socialise a lot in the trans community and have no problem with it at all from transgender to drag. If someone is out and about as a lady they should be entitled to use ladies facilities. Thats what I think.

I was out recently in a club and a friend who is going through an actual gender change was told by 2 little idiots that drag queens werent allowed in the womens. It was so horrible. Made me realise though that still a huge number of close minded people out there.

Victor

I actually used to frequent a cafe in Dublin that had 2 cubicles in a unisex toilet. While it wouldn't have been the busiest place in the world it was two years before some fool decided to have a peek over the partition. Solution - raise the partition to ceiling height.

boomkatalog wrote: »

Actually with bathrooms, I don't think I'd care about using a unisex bathroom either once it was all cubicles and no urinals! The only thing that'd bother me is if the doors were the sort where you can see out the sides while you pee :eek: ( the bathrooms in America, WHY do I want to see who's queing while I pee??) but that'd bother me no matter who was in the bathroom.

This is done to stop people doing drugs in the cubicles. Now, you know the way it is easy to see out through blinds, but difficult to see in? The door works the same way. The chances of anyone seeing intimate anything is rather minimal. In London train stations, there are large opaque glass panels on cubicle doors (I'm not sure of the motivation, drugs, sex or general misbehaving).

Aoifums wrote: »

Unisex bathrooms are usually fine. But I don't like them on nights out.

Could I ask why? Aside from drunken idiots losing and / or them losing control of their bodily functions? I'm pretty much convinced that the best way to get people to behave themselves in the toilets is for them to be as busy as possible - that means unisex. It also helps deal with excessive demand from males or females. For personal safety, keeping them as open-plan and busy as possible is better than segregation.

In pubs, clubs and the likes of train stations (unlike workplaces where access is controlled) having an attendent present tends to be useful for the occassional mishap or misbehaviour.