Difficulty with mothers views on rape

LegacyUser

This all came up talking about the coronation st thing, where someone was almost sexually assaulted. For the record i haven't seen it but saw little bits in the newspaper which led me to believe the girl was almost raped. Anyhow my mother was talking about it last night saying that it wasn't a big deal at all, that he hardly touched her and she was clearly asking for it in the manner she dressed. I was pretty shocked and it stirred up a lot of emotion for me.

I was raped about 7 years ago and never said it to my family. I never said it because i knew this would be the reaction. ever since i can remember my mother always talks about girls who dress even slightly sexily that they're asking to be raped. When i would leave the house to go to a bar or club she would look at me with disgust and tell me i was asking to be raped, and if i ever was don't come crying to her because i would have deserved it by putting myself out as such a slut.

I did speak to councillors about it, but it wasn't much help. today thinking about all this with my mother has left me feeling really sick. I know it sounds silly to be getting upset over a soap thing, but i can't really explain it. I'm feeling really low and disgusting in myself today. My mother wants me to go over tomorrow for easter, ut i can't stand to face her now

MitchKoobski

Excuse me for being blunt, but your mother needs to cop the **** on.

ANY mother who says to her daughter "You're just asking to be raped" and that you deserve if it you were to be, clearly isn't a mother who cares enough.

It's completely understandable to be getting upset about it. The storyline brought back bad memories and that happens to a lot of people whether it be tv, radio or even a casual conversation might trigger it.

If it was me, I would be tempted to tell her what happened. It might change her opinion. Everyone has a great opinion on something until it happens to them or hits home, then everything changes.

spinandscribble

I don't know why your mother has such a unforgiving opinion on rape victims. I mean does she believe men are creatures that cannot control themselves? Sorry I'm always amazed by the old "she was asking for it".

I'm not sure if you should keep it a secret from your mother. You will not go crying to her but if you explain to her you'd prefer she kept her opinions on rape VICTIMS to herself as you were raped before otherwise you cannot be around her, you might be able to come to an civil understanding she's to keep her mouth shut.

Ever2010

Be honest with her - she may have said those things to scare you into dressing "more appropriately" in her opinion. This could be your chance to explain the other side to her - she's your mother - her first instinct should be to protect her daughter - I'm sure that she'll be deeply upset that you were hurt.

Is your relationship with her good other than these issues?

IrishEyes19

I think perhaps you should tell her, also is there anything that happened in the past regarding your mother that would cause her to have these views. Sometimes victims of such crimes often blame the girl rather than the criminal. so fair play to you for being so strong!!!!!! cant have been an easy few years for you at all.

Forest Master

Your mother sounds like a bigot, and I'm also assuming she's God-fearing & religious too: it's usually religious people that have such harsh & illogical opinions on things such as gays & rape & abortion, etc. She's stuck in her close-minded ways & views - it's unfortunate, but she won't change.

What can you do? Not sure - but you've certainly done nothing wrong, and it's 100% her issue.

Aishae

i didnt see the rape plot line but i did see some or it last night and saw whatsername Carla speaking the way your mother was. calling the rape victim a silly little girl etc. I said to dad 'thats the exact reason so many rape victims keep quiet - people spouting rubbish like that'.

theyre pretty old fashioned views but thats not to say all older people think that way (they dont).

i agree with the suggestion it might be time to tell her. i'd hope that the storyline might actually affect peoples views positively.

iguana

To be fair to your mother, the scene in Coronation Street was very ambiguous and did not really appear to the viewer that the woman was in danger of rape. If I didn't know better I'd be wondering if the story was a "cry rape" scenario rather than an attempted rape. The male character certainly went too far but backed off when a rather small woman gave him a bit of a push and just sat watching her as she walked past him and out of the room. It was very badly choreographed.

I wonder if your mother's comments have as much to do with her perception of the story and her involvement with the particular characters than her world view.

I'd suggest talking with her about the comments in isolation from the programme. Maybe show her something like this ad and use that as a focus, not a really ambiguous scene in a not particularly well written storyline.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGnGPAZcsqE

Ickle Magoo

Forest Master, making insulting sweeping generalisation about people based on their faith just serves to inflame and annoy other posters and offers no constructive advice to the OP as to how best to deal with their issue - please don't do it.

Be aware that off-topic and unhelpful posting can earn you a ban from this forum.

If you haven't already done so, please take the time to read the [URL=" http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056181484"]forum rules[/URL] in the charter.

Many thanks.

Forest Master

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Forest Master, making insulting sweeping generalisation about people based on their faith just serves to inflame and annoy other posters and offers no constructive advice to the OP as to how best to deal with their issue - please don't do it.

Apologies - won't happen again.

BUT - did the OP deny my assumption? And you don't think it's fair to assume that her mother's views are old fashioned, and in Ireland that most old-fashioned & outdated views on homosexuals, sex outside of wedlock, abortion, etc, were formed from being devout Catholics their whole lives?? We all know old people & relatives/grannies, etc, with those sort of views, and they're always spawned from a life of devout God-fearing Catholicism - it's the way Ireland used to be. If you disagree with me, then fine - but it's not a "sweeping generalisation". It's a fact. I was adopted because my birth mother had me outside of wedlock and was told she was a dirty sinner that would burn in hell, and she was sent to a home for the term of her pregnancy. This was 1978 - not medieval times. And this is how Ireland was back then, and this is why the OPs' mother holds these type of bigoted views.

Just because you may not agree with my view, I don't believe it to be a generalisation, and I bet I'm right about her mother being religious - it's usually connected to having ignorant & prejudice opinions - that's my point. OP?

I'll drop it now, but you're wrong to accuse me of generalisations, because it's a reality in Ireland - nearly every old person I know has old-fashioned views like this. Ask your Granny what she thinks of gays, and I bet she'll say it's a sin. Now is that her own uninfluenced & educated opinion, or is it influenced by the Catholic church telling her it's a sin for 70 years?

Ickle Magoo

Forest Master, as per the forum charter if you have an issue with a moderator instruction you PM the mod rather than dragging the thread off-topic arguing.

Forest Master

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Forest Master, as per the forum charter if you have an issue with a moderator instruction you PM the mod rather than dragging the thread off-topic arguing.

Sorry - moving on...

whiteonion

If I was you I would tell your mother to go to hell and die.

Ickle Magoo

whiteonion given a months holiday for failing to heed previous warnings with regards to trolling and unhelpful posting.

tinkerbell

I think you should tell her what happened. I would hope to think that no matter what her views are on the subject, that should it be her own daughter, she would definitely change her attitude. She may think she can make these rotten sweeping statements but if she knew that her own daughter had this awful experience happen to, I think she would very quickly change what she thinks on the subject.

Regardless, I don't think it's healthy for you to be around her if she's making statements like that anyway. Because presumably, it's bringing you back to what happened 7 years ago which is no good for you. You already had this horrible experience happen, you don't need to be dragged back to it constantly by your mother's stupid insensitive remarks.

So either you tell her what happened and say that unless she changes her attitude, you can't be around her if she's making those comments, or else you just tell her that you don't want to be around her unless she stops blaming rape victims for what happened to them. Just because someone wants to dress provocatively, doesn't mean that they were "bringing it on themselves".

LegacyUser

Well i told my mother and it didn't go well. She asked when did it happen, i said it was 7 yrs ago when i was away. Then she kind of laughed and said ah i see. So i asked what do you mean? She said she knew that i had been drinking and would have been dressed innappropriately like i 'always' do and it was my own fault. She then said she thought the young man in question was lucky that he was a complete stranger so i wouldnt have ruined his life

i really wish i hadn't told her now, i feel so sick and destroyed

pookie82

Sorry to hear about her reaction OP. But you probably figured that was coming.

Is there any chance that she, herself, was raped or abused as a child? Maybe as a kid she came clean, and someone told her she was asking for it? If she was young enough, this idea could have been deeply engrained in her. Thus her spouting throughout your life that dressing or acting a certain way means you're asking to be raped.

It might be a mechanism for her to overcome feeling like a victim.

It's kind of strange to take such a forceful stance on rape without any personal background shaping it.

solovely

You mother sounds like a very messed up person, with her own warped views on life.

I really hope you go back to your counsellor and talk to her about this, as the people on here, great an all as everyone's intentions here won't be able to reassure you the way you need to be, that this is 100% not your fault, and your mother's reaction is completely wrong and unjustified.

I just wonder what has sprung your mother's attitude? There are theories somewhere that people who have gone through traumas in their own past (such as rape, child abuse, gay tendencies, adoption) attempt to get over them by negating the whole situation...sounds really bizarre but I've heard lots of instances where this is true (especially with clerical sex abuse). Not saying it did with your mother, but there could be repressed issues there.

Do you have other members of your family you could speak to who would understand and support you better than your mother? How is your mother in general? Do you get on well besides this issue?

She sounds caustic to me, and detrimental to your recovery.

There are a couple of things you can do, but as I said, I really think you should speak to a proper counsellor to help deal with this properly.
1. Cut your mother out of your life completely, and let her know the reason why
2. Write her a letter explaining why she has hurt you so bad, and why none of this was your fault
3. Get really angry and get all the repressed issues out in the open
4. Speak to someone else who you know will be on your side and try get them to have a word of reason with her
5. Badmouth her to the whole world, and make sure everyone knows how cruel and unkind she is to her own daughter.

2 or 4 sound like the most rational options, but only you know what's best for you.

Good luck! And as everyone here is echoing, none of this is your fault.
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Kanoe

if it's any consolation op I've been through the same thing with my mother. Not to divulge too much information but I turned up on her doorstep bloody and bruised and while my father was preparing to take me to the hospital she's busy telling me I deserved it. Even at the hospital the doctor on duty was of much the same opinion. If my father hadn't been with me I wouldn't have believed it. I bought a one way ticket out of the country following it. It was a long time ago but my mothers response burned me. (it wasn't about how I was dressed, but I was living with the man..which apparently doesn't count)

p.s. my father took me to the station and I made a report anyway. The female garda was the first person to take me seriously and I will be forever grateful to her for her help.

tinkerbell

OMG OP and to zxy, I'm so sorry for what you both had to go through.

OP - cut your mother out of your life, she sounds rotten to the core if that is the only thing she has to say to her daughter after hearing that her own daughter was raped.

dan_d

Jesus Op.

I think you probably should have a chat with a counsellor for yourself, just to give you a hand. This is not something you should be dealing with by yourself - and I don't just mean the rape, I mean your mother's attitude.

Your mother.....leaves me speechless. What kind of person is she? Seriously, who says stuff like that?

Taltos

OP - wow (bad way) - not sure how else to respond.

A few things struck me though. As per the other posters your mother does not sound either in touch of reality or even aware of her role as a mother. Personally life is too short to surround yourself with poisonous people like that so I think that I would have to cut all ties just to prevent any of her warped views impacting me(you) any further.

I mean - her views on you causing a guy to rape you is more than backward it is last century - well except in some religous countries.

I think you 100% did the right thing in telling her.
Her reaction though - well it speaks all about her and not about you.
You have to do your best to ignore everything out of her mouth. At the end of the day her role as a mother is meant to be a nurturing one - seems like someone forgot to tell her that...

Stay strong - and irrespective of those views I do hope you get whatever help / advice you need going forwards.

Monkey61

spinandscribble wrote: »

I don't know why your mother has such a unforgiving opinion on rape victims. I mean does she believe men are creatures that cannot control themselves? Sorry I'm always amazed by the old "she was asking for it".

My mother has the exact same opinion as the above. I always found it so offensive, both to women and to men. And then I found out that she had been abused as a child - which is presumably exactly why she has developed all these ideas, out of guilt, fear, shame etc.

I am so sorry that your mother reacted that way. It does seem like there is more to it than she is saying though, and that something in her life has shaped that opinion.

You definitely should get some counselling to help you deal with all the feelings that this has brought up.

Good luck OP.

Kanoe

apologies, it wasn't my intention to detract from the op's PI. I don't know if I would put much faith in any of the reasons why your mother reacted this way but I can guarantee you're not alone. I remember reading studies on on how women perceive other women who have been raped/physically assaulted and it suggests that they are more likely to blame the woman as it is a way of psychologically protecting themselves from the same fate. They believe that because they have done "all the right things" it hasn't happened to them and ergo never will if you abide by such and such rules. Because these things don't happen in a just world.

I would put everything I own on your mother having been raped in the past.. There's no other logical explanation for such illogical views.

Sad really.

midlandsmissus

Can I say and I mean this in the best way possible, I told my mother about my sexual assault, she was supportive, and I still feel like ****. What other people think of you is not going to help you, it is what you think of yourself that it is the hardest thing to work on and what you need to do to get on with your life. Know this, you were never at fault. Other peoples views are going to be representative of their own upbringing. This is not the battle. You and I have to forgive and like ourselves. Good luck.

Kanoe

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Can I say and I mean this in the best way possible, I told my mother about my sexual assault, she was supportive, and I still feel like ****. What other people think of you is not going to help you, it is what you think of yourself that it is the hardest thing to work on and what you need to do to get on with your life. Know this, you were never at fault. Other peoples views are going to be representative of their own upbringing. This is not the battle. You and I have to forgive and like ourselves. Good luck.

This is true in a lot of ways although I think the difference between having support and not having it does severely impact on your recovery, especially when they add the onus of blame into the mix, it's horrific case of secondary victimization. And because it's someone who you have trusted the most (parent/family member) it can be detrimental to how you build on close relationships and where you place your trust. To forgive does not mean to forget and the best I can do is accept that some people are just like that and move on.

midlandsmissus

zxy wrote: »

This is true in a lot of ways although I think the difference between having support and not having it does severely impact on your recovery, especially when they add the onus of blame into the mix, it's horrific case of secondary victimization. And because it's someone who you have trusted the most (parent/family member) it can be detrimental to how you build on close relationships and where you place your trust. To forgive does not mean to forget and the best I can do is accept that some people are just like that and move on.

Yeah even though my mum was supportive she did say I put myself in a risky situation, and said 'if you do x behaviour a man's gonna think you want x' so she was a bit blaming aswell now I think of it. But that didn't matter to me as I completely blamed myself anyway. If that makes sense. My huge battle was with myself, let alone what she thought. Still not out of the darkness now. I'm not blaming myself anymore but still feel the awful fear of it. Do you feel like that xzy?

Kanoe

No but it was 16 years ago. I think I spent a lot of those years preoccupied with other things and really shoved it to the back of my mind and it wasn't until much later when other things came up did it resurface and I had to deal with it again. It really was the mothers response which killed me and while I still have a reasonably ok relationship with her every now and again she goes and blows my mind by saying something so archaic that I can't get my head around. but I'm less angry. The problem is that we will always love these people no matter what they do to us which leads us to normalise their behaviour. I don't have a fear of men necessarily, I have a lot of good male friends and funnily enough I am more trusting of them than women a lot of the time. (maybe because my father was my main comforter/supporter/provider/nourisher and consequently I have a lot more respect for them)I don't know if that answers your question tho Everybody's experience is different and we all have different ways of dealing with them.

p.s. only recently this issue came up again with her and she suggested that it was the stress I put my father through that killed him. (he passed away a year after it all)

midlandsmissus

zxy wrote: »

No but it was 16 years ago. I think I spent a lot of those years preoccupied with other things and really shoved it to the back of my mind and it wasn't until much later when other things came up did it resurface and I had to deal with it again. It really was the mothers response which killed me and while I still have a reasonably ok relationship with her every now and again she goes and blows my mind by saying something so archaic that I can't get my head around. but I'm less angry. The problem is that we will always love these people no matter what they do to us which leads us to normalise their behaviour. I don't have a fear of men necessarily, I have a lot of good male friends and funnily enough I am more trusting of them than women a lot of the time. I don't know if that answers your question tho Everybody's experience is different and we all have different ways of dealing with them.

Thanks for replying. . Yeah it just goes to show we all deal with things like this differently, mine was 5 months ago and I still get so frightened when i think of it. Please god it will pass. Hang in there OP hopefully we will emerge stronger people.

LegacyUser

To the posters who experienced something like this, i am sorry for what you went through and still do go through.

To clear a few things up, i don't dress provocatively. My mother thinks that a fitted top, hipster jeans, trousers or a skirt where you could see the shape of a bum in, anything fitted, skirts above knee, any cleavage showing etc is dressing like you're asking for it. A spaghetti strap top is jordan wear etc.

She is not overly religious, mass at christmas etc

I don't believe she was abused, although i had wondered. Both of her parents were loving aand very nurturing. She enjoyed school and jokes about the nuns when the topics come up. She got on well with her aunt who would have been the only other authority figure in her life. She met my father at 15 and they got married when she was 20 having never gone out with someone else. She is not overly religious but she isn't atheist or anti religious.

She has always had this attitude of serve your man, although she didn't treat my father this way, she expected him to do half of housework always. ut in my relationships when things were topsy turvy she would always say if you don't look after your guy you know someone else will grab him etc...

It kills me that while completely unable to show sympathy for me she was able to show sympathy for the guy that did this....when she said lucky for him that he's not here so you couldn't ruin his life....i don't think i will ever get over that sentence.

Its almost like this issue with my mother is seperate from the rape. i know it happened and was hurtful but with my mother its like everything i knew and was is gone. its such a betrayal and causes so much hurt than the rape ever did.

LegacyUser

OP, I hope you are doing ok.. just wondered if your mother is having a denial type reaction to what happened to you? My mother had a similar reaction when she found out I had been attacked (I was lucky I got away but was stalked afterwards)...many years later she apologised for her reaction, she just couldn't deal with the trauma years before, and she had got angry with me and blamed me at the time but I found out later that this is a common reaction of victims' parents.
At the time I was hurt terribly, until I had understood that she loved me and just wanted it to "go away".
You are her little girl, it is easier for her to absorb that is was an unfortunate misunderstanding than the thought of you being raped ( I am in no way trying to down play what happened to you because my heart goes out to you).
I hope you can get support from trained counsellors and start to look after yourself. I was advised to not resent my mother for her reaction and concentrate on myself and healing.
She is doing what a lot of victim's mothers do in reaction to assault, it does not mean she does not love you, she just has her own coping mechanism. However you need help from someone who is not affected by what happened. The rape crisis centre can also help.
Take care of yourself.