space Shuttle and Fuel Tank visible April 29th

Calibos

Heads up folks!!

All aboard the rollercoaster. With the launch date of STS134 moved to next Friday afternoon Florida time,weather permitting here in Ireland we'll be treated 18 minutes later to the breathtaking sight of the Space Shuttle Endeavor Climbing into orbit with its main fuel tank falling away underneath as they pass over Irish Skies.

This has only happened 3 times in the past afaik. Once in the late 80's or early 90's and twice in 2009. With only 2 more shuttle launches after this one we will never see this spectacle again.

Anyone who followed my thread from 2009 will know what to expect. Its gonna be a wild ride!

derra

Calibos wrote: »

Heads up folks!!

All aboard the rollercoaster. With the launch date of STS134 moved to next Friday afternoon Florida time,weather permitting here in Ireland we'll be treated 18 minutes later to the breathtaking sight of the Space Shuttle Endeavor Climbing into orbit with its main fuel tank falling away underneath as they pass over Irish Skies.

This has only happened 3 times in the past afaik. Once in the late 80's or early 90's and twice in 2009. With only 2 more shuttle launches after this one we will never see this spectacle again.

Anyone who followed my thread from 2009 will know what to expect. Its gonna be a wild ride!

Link to the 47 page thread here
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055618844&page=41

Can't wait to see this if all goes to plan, shuttle launch time and weather.
Cheers for the heads up.

ct89

What time?

Calibos

Heres the link to an article in the Guardian about the event

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/apr/20/spacewatch-satellites-endeavour

If the Shuttle launches next Friday at the scheduled time which is about 8.45pm our time, then we should see it flyover us about 18-20 minutes later at about 9.05pm. Launch timing and the arrival of the shuttle over us around the time of our dawn or dusk is critical (has to be within about an hour after sunset here or before sunrise) This is why the event is so rare. We are very lucky in that its only us, the UK and Norway that ever have a chance of seeing this when there is a mission to the ISS and thus the Launch trajectory takes the shuttle hurtling into orbit NE from Cape Canaveral across the atlantic and over us. Nowhere else usually gets to see this ever.

Heres the thread from the last time this happened in July '09 to give you an idea what to expect.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055618844

It should be about 40º up in the sky from Dublin when its due south which is a decent enough height and it'll be higher the further south in the country you are and lower the further north you are.

Go to Heavensabove.com and select your location from the Database-Ireland-Type the nearest decent sized town or city and then select ISS flyovers. Look at the entry for the 29th April around 9pm and that will give you a reasonalbe idea of how high the Shuttle will track across the sky at your location. The higher the better and the brighter the sight will be.

ISS flyovers are pretty cool all by themselves. One can visualise the crew leisurely going about their business weightless with maybe the Blue Danube from 2001 playing in your head as they flyover

However the Shuttle Launch flyover is a whole other ball game. You get the excitment of watching the launch on Telly or on the Nasa Website. The expectant wait of 18 minutes for it to thunder all the way from Florida to Ireland in such a short time. Then the thrill of seeing it appear over the western horizon and race across the sky (much faster than the ISS) AT this point in the flight the shuttle and fuel tank are much lower than the ISS already in Orbit. You can just visualise the Shuttle crew still strapped into their seats and grimacing under the G-Forces. I recommend playing Meat Loafs 'Bat Outta Hell' in your head for the flyover.

Its pretty exciting stuff even for those who might watch an ISS flyover and go Meh'!

Overature

nice, what time and what direction?

Beeker

Overature wrote: »

nice, what time and what direction?

It will appear from the SW moving towards the SE at about 21:03. If the sky is clear by out watching from just before 21:00. It is a fantastic sight to see. White orbiter and orange tank close together passing accross the sky at 17500 mph:)

AugustusMinimus

Beeker wrote: »

It will appear from the SW moving towards the SE at about 21:03. If the sky is clear by out watching from just before 21:00. It is a fantastic sight to see. White orbiter and orange tank close together passing accross the sky at 17500 mph:)

Any idea how long it will be visible for ?

Beeker

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Any idea how long it will be visible for ?

Just a few minutes as it crosses the sky, about 4 minutes:)

lord lucan

IIRC the national media(papers and radio) flagged this up last time quite a bit. Hopefully they do the same again. For a brief period people took an interest in the Shuttle and actually took an interest in what's beyond our little round home. If even a handful of kids are inspired by it and take an interest it'd be great.:)

Beeker

lord lucan wrote: »

IIRC the national media(papers and radio) flagged this up last time quite a bit. Hopefully they do the same again. For a brief period people took an interest in the Shuttle and actually took an interest in what's beyond our little round home. If even a handful of kids are inspired by it and take an interest it'd be great.:)

And so say all of us!!:)

Calibos

Beeker wrote: »

Just a few minutes as it crosses the sky, about 4 minutes:)

Its the ISS that takes about 4 minutes. That is what was so spectacular about the Shuttle and Tank last time other than their brightness and vivid colours, it was the fact that because they are still on the climb to orbit they fly over at 17000 mph at less than half the height of the ISS. This means the pair literally scream across the sky in under 2 minutes. Faster than any Satellite or any airliner at cruising altitude. It really conveys a sense of speed that these instense points of light which look and indeed are pretty much in space hurtle across the sky as fast as a Supersonic jet at a few thousand feet.

Its mad to think that the external fuel tank which has been jettisoned a few minutes before the flyover over Ireland and is already falling to earth but won't actually 'land' till the Pacific Ocean off New Zealand afaik.

AugustusMinimus

I've always wondered.

They don't actually scalvage the fuel tank as there is no remains by the time it hits the ocean.

How the hell is this ? Should NASA be done for littering ?

lord lucan

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

I've always wondered.

They don't actually scalvage the fuel tank as there is no remains by the time it hits the ocean.

How the hell is this ? Should NASA be done for littering ?

It burns up on re-entry. The SRB's fall to the ocean and are recovered.

Ive just read that the pope may make a call to the ISS during the Launch of Space Shuttle. Hmmm.

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/04/23/reaching-pope-make-space/?test=faces

PeakOutput

were does the fuel tank land?

Beeker

PeakOutput wrote: »

were does the fuel tank land?

The tank burns up on reentry over the Pacific ocean so does not land.

Beeker

Jake1 wrote: »

Ive just read that the pope may make a call to the ISS during the Launch of Space Shuttle. Hmmm.

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/04/23/reaching-pope-make-space/?test=faces

Down with that type of thing!:D

lord lucan

Beeker wrote: »

Down with that type of thing!:D

CO19

Beeker wrote: »

The tank burns up on reentry over the Pacific ocean so does not land.

How does it not burn up leaving the Earth but burns up going back in ? has it a coat on it that burns away leaving the Earth so that it will burn up going back down ?

Also how come the ISS orbits the Earth in an up down motion and not just by going round the Earth in a circle ?

lord lucan

The Shuttle and its ET are travelling at a much slower speed on launch than on re-entry. It's profile on launch means it creates less drag basically as it encounters the thinner atmosphere. When the ET re-enters the dense earths atmosphere it encounters the same forces as the shuttle does only at a lesser speed. The Shuttle has heat resistant tiles to shield it but the tank has no protection and gradually burns up on re-entry. There will be some debris landing in the ocean,most likely the attachment points. I've never heard of NASA actually tracing any debris.

I've a couple of scoops on me so i may have made a balls of describing it.:o

Beeker

CO19 wrote: »

How does it not burn up leaving the Earth but burns up going back in ? has it a coat on it that burns away leaving the Earth so that it will burn up going back down ?

The tank burns up because it hits air molecules at high speed which heat up. As it decends through the atmosphere it is hitting more and more molecules in the thickening air so the heating intensivies leading to the burn up. During launch the tank heats up also but no where near burning point. The reason is simple, it is travelling at 17500 mph when it comes down but much slower on the way up through the thickest part of the atmosphere. As its speed is increasing, so the air molecules are deminishing with its increasing altitude. By the time it reacheds 17500mph it has effectively left the atmosphere and the air moleclues are gone.

CO19 wrote: »

Also how come the ISS orbits the Earth in an up down motion and not just by going round the Earth in a circle ?

The ISS does travel around the earth in a straight line which is angeled at 51 degrees to the equator. When this is displayed on a flat map of the Earth it is reperesented as a "wave" but it is a straight line. The Earth also rotates under it so each orbit will pass over a different part of the surface.
Hope that explaines it:)

lord lucan

Good man Beeker,i'll stick to the beer!:D

CO19

Beeker wrote: »

The tank burns up because it hits air molecules at high speed which heat up. As it decends through the atmosphere it is hitting more and more molecules in the thickening air so the heating intensivies leading to the burn up. During launch the tank heats up also but no where near burning point. The reason is simple, it is travelling at 17500 mph when it comes down but much slower on the way up through the thickest part of the atmosphere. As its speed is increasing, so the air molecules are deminishing with its increasing altitude. By the time it reacheds 17500mph it has effectively left the atmosphere and the air moleclues are gone.

The ISS does travel around the earth in a straight line which is angeled at 51 degrees to the equator. When this is displayed on a flat map of the Earth it is reperesented as a "wave" but it is a straight line. The Earth also rotates under it so each orbit will pass over a different part of the surface.
Hope that explaines it:)

Thanks ! trying to picture the earth going under the station but just can't see how this works when you watch through live streaming (which I can't seem to do anymore for some reason ) you always see the 2 move in perfect harmony and never the Earth moving under-heads melted trying to understand the workings of it all

clln

CO19 wrote: »

Thanks ! trying to picture the earth going under the station but just can't see how this works when you watch through live streaming (which I can't seem to do anymore for some reason ) you always see the 2 move in perfect harmony and never the Earth moving under-heads melted trying to understand the workings of it all

Hi'ya again CO19,:)

Have you got an Apple Mac may'be?
If windows just go to the microsoft download site and search for windows media player for your particulor version of windows,it is free to download and use.

used to be that the ISS feed supported many players but now only windows media player.
Like you i often check it out and just sit and watch our beautiful Earth go by when ISS is in range of the tracking and data relay satellites,sometimes it covers the whole Orbital daylight,but seldom if the KU band Antenna is needed for other purposes.

There is talk that after 135 the Iss feed will include multible feed camera's from the station,inside and out......... that would be terrific!!!!
Sometimes the Loss Of Signal message is not displayed and the feed is just blank as an outside possibility that you were just unlucky when you checked.

hope you get it working again!:)

Beeker

CO19 wrote: »

Thanks ! trying to picture the earth going under the station but just can't see how this works when you watch through live streaming (which I can't seem to do anymore for some reason ) you always see the 2 move in perfect harmony and never the Earth moving under-heads melted trying to understand the workings of it all

The Shuttle launches from Florida into a 51.6 degree orbit in relation to the equator. The image below is for the hubble space telescope which has an orbit of 28.5, but the same applies.

This three-dimensional orbit is inclined at an angle to the equator, its ground track upon a two-dimensional map also crosses north and south of the equator. Drawing this three-dimensional circular orbit on a two-dimensional map results in a wave shape.

However, the ground track of the ISS or Shuttle typically changes from orbit to orbit. The reason for this behavior is that most satellites travel around the planet at a different speed than the Earth rotates around its axis. The ISS is in a Low Earth Orbit (LEO) and completes an orbit in just 96 minutes whereas it takes the Earth 24 hours (1,440 minutes) to complete a rotation. Since the ISS orbits the planet much faster than the Earth rotates, the Station circles the Earth about 16 times per day and each orbit moves further across the surface of the Earth than the one before. In other words, the ISS is never over the same point on the surface of the Earth when it is at the same position in its orbit. This behavior produces a series of orbits whose ground tracks move across the surface of the Earth.


Thats the best I can do to explain it. Once you get your head around it , it all makes sense:)

CO19

clln wrote: »

Hi'ya again CO19,:)

Have you got an Apple Mac may'be?
If windows just go to the microsoft download site and search for windows media player for your particulor version of windows,it is free to download and use.

used to be that the ISS feed supported many players but now only windows media player.
Like you i often check it out and just sit and watch our beautiful Earth go by when ISS is in range of the tracking and data relay satellites,sometimes it covers the whole Orbital daylight,but seldom if the KU band Antenna is needed for other purposes.

There is talk that after 135 the Iss feed will include multible feed camera's from the station,inside and out......... that would be terrific!!!!
Sometimes the Loss Of Signal message is not displayed and the feed is just blank as an outside possibility that you were just unlucky when you checked.

hope you get it working again!:)

Thanks a mill for that I have the latest version of media player for windows and I re-downloaded it again to see would that work but still doesn't.
It was working fine one they,media player would just open up and start playing when I'd click on 'Live ISS streaming' then bang the next day it stops working yet I can still watch the normal public channel .
Can't think how else to get it back working again from here

Beeker wrote: »

The Shuttle launches from Florida into a 51.6 degree orbit in relation to the equator. The image below is for the hubble space telescope which has an orbit of 28.5, but the same applies.

Thats the best I can do to explain it. Once you get your head around it , it all makes sense:)

Thanks Beeker,I appreciate it I understand it a bit better now but I've still tonnes of questions on it all ah I just don't think I'll ever fully understand how things work in space etc

clln

CO19 wrote: »

It was working fine one they,media player would just open up and start playing when I'd click on 'Live ISS streaming' then bang the next day it stops working yet I can still watch the normal public channel .
Can't think how else to get it back working again from here

I am as as you now!,only last thing i can think is all the other channels can be viewed with flasplayer and your computer automaticly switchs to that due to some error with WMP?

you proably know their is a computer subforum under tech.i have found help there with some things i was stuck on ;
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=9&order=desc

nice job on the multiquote BTW,wish i could do that,its handy!

raveni

Thanks for all the info folks:) Out of curiousity will the shuttle be visible (weather permitting) on it's re-entry, presuming that it'll take the same route back down?

clln wrote: »

nice job on the multiquote BTW,wish i could do that,its handy!

Click the icon; which is on the bottom right of each of the posts you want to quote then just like normal click post reply and all posts you clicked that icon for will be quoted when you go to write your post. You can delete the poster's text you don't want to reply to just make sure not to delete the stuff between the [] brackets, i.e. this sort of stuff: [QUOTE*][/QUOTE*]

lord lucan

raveni wrote: »

Thanks for all the info folks:) Out of curiousity will the shuttle be visible (weather permitting) on it's re-entry, presuming that it'll take the same route back down?

She'll take a different route for her return to KSC. Hasn't been decided yet but it's one of 2 routes,one taking her across the gulf of mexico and into Florida,like this:



or the more rare track across the Continent itself like this:

khlebnikov

Really looking forward to this. Managed to see it the last time it passed over a couple of years ago, it was a spectacular sight. We just have to pray for the clear skies now!! Sky News were fairly good with their coverage of the Discovery launch last time round, dont know if they'll be as good this time round though. Fox news should be showing a good bit of it as well.

Discodog

I read somewhere that there would be a greater separation distance between the shuttle & the tank & boosters. Last time they were all visible together. Is there any reason why they would be further apart on this launch by the time they pass over us ?.

lord lucan

Discodog wrote: »

I read somewhere that there would be a greater separation distance between the shuttle & the tank & boosters. Last time they were all visible together. Is there any reason why they would be further apart on this launch by the time they pass over us ?.

The SRB's(boosters) are well gone by the time we potentially get to see her. The tank will be following behind the Orbiter and at a lower altitude as it will have been jettisoned about 8 minutes prior to us seeing it and will have begun its descent to earth.

tricky D

CO19 wrote: »

Thanks a mill for that I have the latest version of media player for windows and I re-downloaded it again to see would that work but still doesn't.
It was working fine one they,media player would just open up and start playing when I'd click on 'Live ISS streaming' then bang the next day it stops working yet I can still watch the normal public channel .
Can't think how else to get it back working again from here

Get VLC player

best media player around

Discodog

lord lucan wrote: »

The SRB's(boosters) are well gone by the time we potentially get to see her. The tank will be following behind the Orbiter and at a lower altitude as it will have been jettisoned about 8 minutes prior to us seeing it and will have begun its descent to earth.

Well last time the shuttle, tank & srb's were close together. My neighbour got a photo showing all four objects in the same frame. It puzzled me when I watched it as I had assumed that the srb's are dumped into the Atlantic.

The shuttle appeared as fast moving star with a larger orange star below it (the tank) & two smaller stars following behind ( the boosters).

lord lucan

That doesn't make any sense tbh as the SRB's are jettisoned 2 minutes into flight,taking 7/8 minutes to fall back to the ocean. They separate around the 150,000ft mark and keep going to just beyond the 200,000ft mark before falling back.

clln

khlebnikov wrote: »

Really looking forward to this. Managed to see it the last time it passed over a couple of years ago, it was a spectacular sight. We just have to pray for the clear skies now!! Sky News were fairly good with their coverage of the Discovery launch last time round, dont know if they'll be as good this time round though. Fox news should be showing a good bit of it as well.

I have a funny feeling that Sky Fox et al will be fully preoccupied with a certain other event on the 29th!;)

Storm 10

That certain event will be well over before the shuttle launches, fox will be the best bet , will we see the shuttle if its clear as it wont be dark when its due to pass.

12april1981

img001.jpg

nasa-kelly-astronaut-twins-reunited.jpg

Myself and Greg Johnson in Tralee around 10 years ago..Lets all hope we have clear skies friday !

clln

Storm 10 wrote: »

That certain event will be well over before the shuttle launches, fox will be the best bet , will we see the shuttle if its clear as it wont be dark when its due to pass.

Hi Storm 10 People with far more experiance than me all say it will be if there is clear skies.
I have seen it once and i will never forget it.!!!!

Check out Derra's post where he links to a thread that Calibos started in 2009. go to the pages dated !5th July 2009,were you can view peoples pics and videos taken of the flyover;

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=71843260&postcount=2

might not be for everybody but if you have full time access to a computer NASA TV give all day coverage before fueling starts,all the highlights such as the crew leaving for the Shuttle,being strapped in etc,
It is terrific to see the Launch live from Florida and then see it pass overhead with the orange tank trailing just behind it approx 17 minutes later!:)

NASA TV Link;

http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html

khlebnikov

clln wrote: »

I have a funny feeling that Sky Fox et al will be fully preoccupied with a certain other event on the 29th!;)

yeah, wont be on the main sky news but should at least be on the red button though. it was last time anyway, they showed a couple of hours of coverage prior to the launch as well. its a pity we cant get the nasa channel over this side. my internet connection isnt the greatest for streaming.

lord lucan

clln wrote: »

I have a funny feeling that Sky Fox et al will be fully preoccupied with a certain other event on the 29th!;)

Hard to know. With Obama and family on hand and Gabrielle Giffords in attendance to watch her husband launch there may just be enough to tempt the networks away from endless royal repeats. Nothing like the Giffords story to pull at the heart strings(and get the ratings up,yes,i'm that cynical!).

emo72

lord lucan wrote: »

Nothing like the Giffords story to pull at the heart strings(and get the ratings up,yes,i'm that cynical!).

who the F are the giffords? i remember Southpark doing an episode on kathy lee gifford. i had no idea who she was. any connection?

clln

lord lucan wrote: »

Hard to know. With Obama and family on hand and Gabrielle Giffords in attendance to watch her husband launch there may just be enough to tempt the networks away from endless royal repeats. Nothing like the Giffords story to pull at the heart strings(and get the ratings up,yes,i'm that cynical!).

For the sake of those who cannot view via the web i hope you are right LL!

seen as you only have time for Atlantis i thought you might have being on the Royal Coach "Waiving Regally" :P
thought you would get a day off from your role as Chief Jacks Moniter for the day!:D

for anybody asking "what's clln on about now?"
check out the STS-129 thread!:)

clln

emo72 wrote: »

who the F are the giffords? i remember Southpark doing an episode on kathy lee gifford. i had no idea who she was. any connection?

Gifford is the wife of the Commander of Endeavour Mark Kelly,Some looney shot her in the head and killed six others.
She is a Congresswoman that loves NASA and wanted more money for them not less.

hurleronditch

Really looking forward to seeing this sight again, Loved the last one, amazing seeing how quick it was moving even though it was so high up.

See a good photo and blog post from the July 09 launch here

12april1981

Thats a great Photo and a nice story.Looking forward to all your shots over the weekend fingers and toes crossed for Friday night !kerry,ballybunion.jpg

I guess if they get a chance to look out this is the sight they will see of all of us looking up at them !!

Trotter

I'm in Waterford lads.. Is it worth getting the DSLR onto a tripod for this one? Will I see much in the South East?

12april1981

070.jpg

My Wife and I had the pleasure of meeting Mark Kelly two years ago in Norfolk England.He spoke to us about his flight,and his wish to visit Ireland someday and Look up his ancestry which he told me came from Dublin !

12april1981

Hi Trotter

Yes for sure get the Tripod out some great shots out of Dublin for the sts 124 passover two years back.Just need to keep the cloud a a minimum and theres nothing we can do about that !

Trotter

12april1981 wrote: »

Hi Trotter

Yes for sure get the Tripod out some great shots out of Dublin for the sts 124 passover two years back.Just need to keep the cloud a a minimum and theres nothing we can do about that !

Forecast for Friday is excellent!
I havent read the full details of the thread but what time should I expect to see it and where abouts in the sky? (Sorry for the laziness!)

12april1981

8.47pm is liftoff ,20 mins after that they should be arriving off the west coast Just look up no need for telescopes or anything actually they would just spoil the effect.