From today I can call myself an atheist

wingnut32

Well today is the day after about two years of hard thought and experience I can truly be comfortable with the fact that there is no god. Its strange really because its taken 36 years to get to this point which is probably to do with my sometimes intense fear of death.

I suspect like many posters here I was raised a catholic coming from a catholic family and like most in later years stopped going to mass a good few years ago and became a non practicing catholic. As the years passed I really didnt question my religion too much as it provided me with a comfort for my fear. That changed two years ago when I started to watch a program about the Universe.

I couldnt believe the sheer scope, size, distances, make up and evolution of life the whole thing. What really struck me was the age of the earth and then the age of the Universe itself. One of those nights after watching the program it struck me, what the hell was god doing for 15 billion years? Why does the church not address evolution?And then it started and snowballed. I suppose for the first few months I questioned everything in my mind without really talking about it to anyone.

Then I saw the god delusion which made me feel silly and a little angry at the same time for accepting the fairytale and being so ignorant for not questoning it sooner. Anyway the important thing is through the last two years of reasoning, reading and educating myself Ive accepted that death is a natural part of life and this life we have shouldnt be wasted, not one second of it, particularly on man made fairytales.

Well thats me, and today is the first day of the rest of my life and I dont have to thank god for that...:D

Dades

Welcome to reality.

It's not as comforting but once you seen it, it's difficult to stifle it.

Watch out you don't tell too many people or read too many books or you'll be labelled a militant atheist!

You must complete the initiation process by eating an newly born child. It's the done thing, don't you know.

wingnut32

Dades wrote: »

Welcome to reality.

It's not as comforting but once you seen it, it's difficult to stifle it.

Watch out you don't tell too many people or read too many books or you'll be labelled a militant atheist!

Im aiming for Dawkins territory..

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

You must complete the initiation process by eating an newly born child. It's the done thing, don't you know.

Lol..FFS!

Dave!

Good work OP, you've finally taken the red pill

Life and death is alot more straight-forward when you don't have to rationalise it as part of a divine plan, and try to second-guess God's mood swings!

Amtmann

wingnut32 wrote: »

That changed two years ago when I started to watch a program about the Universe.

I couldnt believe the sheer scope, size, distances, make up and evolution of life the whole thing. What really struck me was the age of the earth and then the age of the Universe itself. One of those nights after watching the program it struck me, what the hell was god doing for 15 billion years?

That's what did it for me too when I was around nine years old. I was one of those kids who loved astronomy and dinosaurs and science in general, and I just couldn't bring myself to believe in God. Took me ages to admit it to anyone, as I was in a small rural community and there didn't seem to be any alternative to that way of life. It was like this terrible secret I harboured within me until I finally 'came out' when I was twelve.

Hank_Jones

Congrats, just wish you had picked a less religious day.

Lot of religious threads today.

Cosimo Salvatore

Universe FTW

MagicMarker

Welcome to the darkside OP.

flyboy69

ahhhhhhhh, I didn't know about the baby bit, would it be OK to share one?:D

MagicMarker

flyboy69 wrote: »

ahhhhhhhh, I didn't know about the baby bit, would it be OK to share one?:D

Well, yeah, but if you finish a whole one then you eat for free!

Dr. Loon

Congrats OP on finding the power of reason and critical thinking. It took me a while as well but it's truly liberating.

I think I'll skip the eating babies though.

wingnut32

I wrote down a list today of things I want to do in the next 15 years (baby eating isnt one of them!) and hopefully I will find a way to make it happen. It sounds cheesy but I do feel liberated as Loon mentioned.

Thanks for all the replies folks, its great to be part of this forum and Im looking forward to some good debates..;)

Beruthiel

MagicMarker wrote: »

Welcome to the darkside OP.

We have babies cookies.

branie

I hope you don't encounter parental opposition

Doctor DooM

branie wrote: »

I hope you don't encounter parental opposition

He's 36, I would suspect his parents will just have to deal with it

doolox

Pat Kenny had guy on who wrote a book called the Good Book about ethics, philosophy and values but trying to explain them without God and religion. I believe that without the good aspects of religion or any values our society would break down and people would go for each other and make life miserable for most people. A lot of people would simply give up and commit suicide if there wasnt some belief in a here-after.

From a purely functional point of view some form of spiritual life or practice is needed in our lives. The trouble starts when men abuse their roles and use the power of religion for their own selfish ends. The real evil in child abuse wasnt the physical act but the fact that abusers told children it would be wrong to refuse to participate in such acts even though their instincts were telling them such things were wrong. The amount of cruelty inflicted on people in Church and state care also bodes ill for witness to a Godly love, such people have done immense damage to the good sides of religion or the spiritual dimension of human existence.

It is important to keep an open mind on such things and to allow time for meditation and observing the world in a reflective frame of mind. Every culture in the world does it. If we as a people just keep busy all the time pursuing material things as an end in itself we will never be satisfied or complete.

doolox

doolox wrote: »

Pat Kenny had guy on who wrote a book called the Good Book about ethics, philosophy and values but trying to explain them without God and religion. I believe that without the good aspects of religion or any values our society would break down and people would go for each other and make life miserable for most people. A lot of people would simply give up and commit suicide if there wasnt some belief in a here-after.

From a purely functional point of view some form of spiritual life or practice is needed in our lives. The trouble starts when men abuse their roles and use the power of religion for their own selfish ends. The real evil in child abuse wasnt the physical act but the fact that abusers told children it would be wrong to refuse to participate in such acts even though their instincts were telling them such things were wrong. The amount of cruelty inflicted on people in Church and state care also bodes ill for witness to a Godly love, such people have done immense damage to the good sides of religion or the spiritual dimension of human existence.

It is important to keep an open mind on such things and to allow time for meditation and observing the world in a reflective frame of mind. Every culture in the world does it. If we as a people just keep busy all the time pursuing material things as an end in itself we will never be satisfied or complete.

Just no

Delirium

why would some commit suicide if there was no afterlife, I would think that they'd be more likely to commit suicide if they knew that they would move onto another level of existence that was free from pain and suffering.

flyboy69

koth wrote: »

why would some commit suicide if there was no afterlife, I would think that they'd be more likely to commit suicide if they knew that they would move onto another level of existence that was free from pain and suffering.

+1. I was just about to post the same, well said.

flyboy69

doolox wrote: »

It is important to keep an open mind on such things and to allow time for meditation and observing the world in a reflective frame of mind. Every culture in the world does it. If we as a people just keep busy all the time pursuing material things as an end in itself we will never be satisfied or complete.

Its called 'thinking' and a belief in god/s or anything else is not a requirement .

MagicMarker

doolox wrote: »

I believe that without the good aspects of religion or any values our society would break down and people would go for each other and make life miserable for most people. A lot of people would simply give up and commit suicide if there wasnt some belief in a here-after.

What utter nonsense.

doolox wrote: »

From a purely functional point of view some form of spiritual life or practice is needed in our lives.

I'm as much spiritual as I am catholic and I seem to get by just fine thanks.

CiaranMT

doolox wrote: »

I believe that without the good aspects of religion or any values our society would break down and people would go for each other and make life miserable for most people. A lot of people would simply give up and commit suicide if there wasnt some belief in a here-after.

Then you believe wrong.

And what about those chaps who commit suicide because of their belief in an afterlife?

Galvasean

I believe that without the good aspects of religion or any values our society would break down and people would go for each other and make life miserable for most people. A lot of people would simply give up and commit suicide if there wasnt some belief in a here-after.

That idea hold no weight at all. If that were the case all the atheists would be commiting suicide / getting locked in jail. I have no data about suicide, but statistically speaking an atheist is far less likely to commit violent crime than a religious person. And I don't mean simply because there are less of them either, I mean on a person per person ratio.

Zombrex

doolox wrote: »

A lot of people would simply give up and commit suicide if there wasnt some belief in a here-after.

Really? That is some what counter intuitive. If you didn't believe in an after life you don't think anything happens after death. So why would you kill yourself. Its like saying someone who thinks life is all they got would want to make it shorter. I would imagine the opposite is true, you want to make life as long as possible.

It tends to be people who think they are going to a "better place" who kill themselves to fast forward to this better place.

Beruthiel

doolox wrote: »

I believe that without the good aspects of religion or any values our society would break down and people would go for each other and make life miserable for most people.

Really? Then explain one of the worlds most advanced, civilised and best run countries in the world, Sweden, where 85% are either non-believer, atheist, or agnostic.

A lot of people would simply give up and commit suicide if there wasnt some belief in a here-after.

That makes no sense whatsoever.

brembo26

ohh its on....

irishh_bob

Beruthiel wrote: »

Really? Then explain one of the worlds most advanced, civilised and best run countries in the world, Sweden, where 85% are either non-believer, atheist, or agnostic.



That makes no sense whatsoever.

sweeden has a high rate of suicide , im agnostic but personally i believe that a believer is less likely to commit suicide for the simple reason that believers were traditionally told that committing suicide would result in eternal damnation

swampgas

irishh_bob wrote: »

sweeden has a high rate of suicide , im agnostic but personally i believe that a believer is less likely to commit suicide for the simple reason that believers were traditionally told that committing suicide would result in eternal damnation

I was under the impression that Ireland's suicide rate has been historically under-reported, for cultural, legal and religious reasons, unlike Sweden which is a little more honest with itself about suicide.

MagicMarker

irishh_bob wrote: »

sweeden has a high rate of suicide , im agnostic but personally i believe that a believer is less likely to commit suicide for the simple reason that believers were traditionally told that committing suicide would result in eternal damnation

According to the WHO, Sweden's suicide rate is only marginally higher than Irelands and the country with the highest suicide rate, Lithuania, is predominantly catholic.

Chuck Stone

irishh_bob wrote: »

sweeden has a high rate of suicide , im agnostic but personally i believe that a believer is less likely to commit suicide for the simple reason that believers were traditionally told that committing suicide would result in eternal damnation

And you attribute this high rate of suicide to not believing in gods?

oldrnwisr

irishh_bob wrote: »

sweeden has a high rate of suicide , im agnostic but personally i believe that a believer is less likely to commit suicide for the simple reason that believers were traditionally told that committing suicide would result in eternal damnation

First of all, Sweden doesn't have a particularly high suicide rate. It ranks 26th out of 103 nations as a measure of total suicides per capita. Ireland doesn't come far behind in 35th place and in fact has a higher rate of male suicides than Sweden.
Secondly, it would be better to understand the factors in determining suicide before using it as some guide to the benefit of religion. In fact most, if not all studies which examine indicators of societal health such as teen pregnancy, divorce etc. show a strong negative correlation with religion.

This meta-study in particular shows that religiosity leads to higher social distress and greater inefficiency in turning wealth into cultural and physical health.

http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html

Canis Lupus

doolox wrote: »

society would break down and people would go for each other and make life miserable for most people.

We should also highlight the old chestnut of how worrying a thought that religious people need a manual book on how to be decent people (edit) by your logic anyway.

Bloody Nipples

Congratulations you have now become enlightened :pac:

tfitzgerald

I think people need to believe in something to give them strength to get true the tough times in there lives

MagicMarker

tfitzgerald wrote: »

I think people need to believe in something to give them strength to get true the tough times in there lives

You think wrong.

tfitzgerald

MagicMarker wrote: »

You think wrong.

Don't think so . But look whatever floats your boat

Zillah

tfitzgerald wrote: »

But look whatever floats your boat

"Whatever floats your boat" refers to subjective opinion, such as "I like chocolate" or "That movie was fun". Applying such logic to factual claims is one of the main reasons that people with ridiculous notions are able to make themselves feel less ridiculous.

People do not need religion to get through hard times, as all of the non-religious people who have made it through hard times demonstrate. This is not a matter of "what floats your boat", you are in error.

Zillah

tfitzgerald wrote: »

I think people need to believe in something to give them strength to get through the tough times in their lives.

tfitzgerald wrote: »

I don't think so. But look, whatever floats your boat.

*sighs in relief*

tfitzgerald

Zillah I am not going to argue with you I will stick to my ridiculous beliefs and you stick to yours even if they are a bit bitter and go on now and have another sigh of relief

tricky D

doolox wrote: »

Pat Kenny had guy on who wrote a book called the Good Book about ethics, philosophy and values but trying to explain them without God and religion.

Ethics without religion - that's easy enough: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kohlberg%27s_stages_of_moral_development

Religion is only mentioned once, and even then as a speculative and more aptly, a wishful-thinking 7th stage. However, due to its dogma and other characteristics, religion has trouble getting past the 4th stage and nevermind other aspects of religion which are rooted in the initial, basic stages.

irishh_bob

tfitzgerald wrote: »

I think people need to believe in something to give them strength to get true the tough times in there lives

i was a devout catholic for the 1st 21 years of my life , i grew up in a dysfunctional home with an uncaring father , a weak mother and a brother who was mentally handicapped , i asked god for help on a regular basis , i went abroad when i was 21 but it was a not a success due to the fact that i was the victim of extreme bullying in the workplace , this triggered depression which i have to this day , believing in something did absolutley nothing for me and while it might not be the most rationale way to decide one is no longer a believer , i see no reason to ask for help from someone - something which never ever delivers , oh and dont bother replying in the usual christian way by telling me that i wasnt looking in the right places for signs of gods help , if i order steak , i dont want bacon

Galvasean

tfitzgerald wrote: »

I think people need to believe in something to give them strength to get true the tough times in there lives

I think people are better off believing in themselves than asking a deity that probably doesn't exist for help/

robindch

tfitzgerald wrote: »

I think people need to believe in something to give them strength to get true the tough times in there lives

You're referring here to Plato's notion of the Noble Lie, a foundational idea or myth which is asserted true by the power-brokers within a society to help ensure harmony and conformity, regardless of whether the idea is actually true or not.

It's a terribly dishonest tactic to use, but it does have the benefit of being tried and tested.

tfitzgerald

I didn't tell anyone what to think . I gave my own opinion which I think is right I would never force my views on somebody else anyway irishh_Bob I hope things go ok for you from now on

MagicMarker

tfitzgerald wrote: »

I didn't tell anyone what to think . I gave my own opinion which I think is right I would never force my views on somebody else anyway irishh_Bob I hope things go ok for you from now on

So if you think that's true how do people who don't believe get by in life?

tfitzgerald

MagicMarker wrote: »

So if you think that's true how do people who don't believe get by in life?

Unlike other people I only speak for myself how would I know

MagicMarker

tfitzgerald wrote: »

Unlike other people I only speak for myself how would I know

O RLY?

tfitzgerald wrote: »

I think people need to believe in something to give them strength to get true the tough times in there lives

Not ''I think I'', but ''I think people''.

Do you see the difference? So can you clarify which you meant? Because it sounds to me like you're speaking for everyone.

tfitzgerald

Do you see the difference? So can you clarify which you meant? Because it sounds to me like you're speaking for everyone.[/QUOTE]

Well seeing as the majority if people in Ireland are Christian they do believe so I suppose I am speaking for most people . This is my final post on this matter because I hate dealing with sarcastic know it all's. And I did say " I think" not I know I was giving my opinion but it looks as if the church bashing crowd are not even going to allow us to have an opinion now

MagicMarker

tfitzgerald wrote: »

Well seeing as the majority if people in Ireland are Christian they do believe so I suppose I am speaking for most people . This is my final post on this matter because I hate dealing with sarcastic know it all's

This is your last post on the matter because you realise that hole you're digging is getting a little too deep.

tfitzgerald

tfitzgerald wrote: »

Well seeing as the majority if people in Ireland are Christian they do believe so I suppose I am speaking for most people . This is my final post on this matter because I hate dealing with sarcastic know it all's

I'm glad that asking for clarification and pointing out inconsistencies is being a "sarcastic know it all".
:rolleyes: