My boyfriend says I'm unfair for not wanting him to watch porn!!

LegacyUser

Hi everyone.

The other day I was on my bf's laptop and found a pornsite in his history (you know the way it completes websites for you when you type them in). I asked him about it and he got all defensive and we had a row.

He knows I don't like porn. I've asked him not to watch it before. I know some women don't mine their men watching porn but I'm not one of them, and I know I'm not alone in it either. I don't like the way porn is made and how degrading it is the women but on a more personal level I also hate the idea that he's getting off to explicit images of other women. I know some people argue that it's just a fantasy but a fantasy is in your head. He's actually looking at other women and imagining having sex with them and I find that upsetting.

Thing is, he won't see my side. When I asked him to stop he said he didn't see why he had to because he wasn't replacing me he was just having some time to himself and although I said his "time to himself" involved pretending he was with other women, he almost seemed incapable of understanding why that was upsetting. He even tried to turn the argument around and said that he'd stop watching porn when I stopped using my vibrator on my own!!! I tried to say that I don't have a problem with him masturbating because yes I do that with my toy too but the problem is that he's doing it over pictures of other women.

How do I try and resolve this? he seems determined not to stop his porn habit and I don't think I can stay with him when I know he's continuing to do something that upsets me so much when I've asked him to stop. Am I not enough???

seamus

Warning to all posters: This is not a right -v- wrong debate about porn. Focus on the OP's issue.

Mallei

Boyfriend Troubles wrote: »

He even tried to turn the argument around and said that he'd stop watching porn when I stopped using my vibrator on my own!!!

This bit sticks out in my mind. He clearly does not understand how you view porn - he sees your toy as something you use to get yourself off, and looks at porn the same way for himself. You need to explain that the two are not the same thing. You use a toy because owing to the fact that you're a woman it's much harder for you to get yourself off when masturbating and the toy makes it much more enjoyable. He does not use porn for the same reason, he uses it because he likes looking at images of other women naked and that thought arouses him.

If you put it in those terms - that you don't like that he finds images of naked women who aren't you arousing, and actually imagines he's having sex with them instead of you - and he still refuses to understand you, then you need to get rid of him. He clearly does not respect you enough to take your wishes into account.

Either that, or "accidentally" start leaving pictures of hot naked men about the place when you've been in the house on your own, and when he asks about them say "oh yes I was imagining him inside of me earlier when I was using my toy... mmm..." I guarantee he'll swiftly come to see your side of the story when he's put in that position.

It's a classic case of someone refusing to see their partner's side because they enjoy what they're doing too much to stop.

seamus

OK, actual response.

he seems determined not to stop his porn habit and I don't think I can stay with him when I know he's continuing to do something that upsets me so much when I've asked him to stop. Am I not enough???

I don't think you're seeing porn in the same way that he is. When you see an attractive man in the street, you see him and you think, "Oh he's attractive". From your boyfriend's point of view, this is all he is doing. He's not "replacing" you with the women in the porn, he's simply aroused and using the images to enjoy that arousal.

I'm sure you are enough for him, but you're not there all the time. Or to put it more simply; if you were there with him every time he was bored or aroused and you were willing to have sex right there, up to 2 or 3 times per day (depends on the person of course), then he would not look at porn.

He does not view the women in porn as someone else that he wants to be with. It's titillation, no worse than a sexy woman in an ad. It's nothing to do with you, at all. Even if you were the sexiest woman on the planet, he would still use porn for this purpose when you're not available or not willing to have sex.

But it's a personal impasse for you. And as you say, you're not alone. Your boyfriend does not see it as wrong, and will never see it as wrong. You can ask him to stop, but from his point of view you are being unreasonable and he will continue to find ever more sneaky ways to keep it hidden from you.

That's the fact of the matter. Like a serial cheater who doesn't see any problem with cheating on a partner, your boyfriend does not and will never see anything wrong with watching porn.

So if you consider it deeply hurtful, then I don't think you have any option except to end the relationship. He will continue to look at porn, despite your protestations, because he will never take them seriously.

fungun

I dont think you should go with the "Am I not enough?" argument. Dont think that leads anywhere really.

I know some people argue that it's just a fantasy but a fantasy is in your head. He's actually looking at other women and imagining having sex with them and I find that upsetting.

I find this point hard to understand. So you are saying its ok to fantasise about having sex with someone else, but just not look at a picture of them when you do it??? Sounds like a thin line placed just where you want it to me, esp since men are much more visually aroused. Also note that not all men who look at porn are 'imagining themselves having sex' with that person explicitly

I think the point to focus on is that it really upsets you. And in a reln its give and take and he at a minimum needs to recognise that it upsets you and go from there. But if he says in return that he gets upset by you using your vibrator and the fact that you fantasise when doing it (assuming you do from your post), would you be willing to stop that for him if he genuinely didnt like it??

Dont think you can ask him to stop unless you are willing to. And I think the difference between the two acts is very small....enough for you to justify that what you are doing is ok but what he is doing is not.

Kevin Duffy

Boyfriend Troubles wrote: »

He's actually looking at other women and imagining having sex with them .

Has he actually said this, or are you assuming it? I can't say I've never looked at porn, but I can say I've never fantasised about being with anyone I've seen in porn, I still only ever want my partner.

liah

Unfortunately, OP, I don't think you'll find much support here. Any time a similar issue comes up, everyone and their grandmother comes rushing in to tell the OP they're being unreasonable and that it's completely natural and you're a prude for not understanding how men work, or some other similar remark.

But I completely get where you're coming from. "Am I not enough?" - you have no idea how many times I've thought that. I don't understand why men require porn; I certainly don't need it to get off. I don't care about them masturbating or fantasizing as everyone does it, but imo it is not a basic human right to view porn and it is not something that has to take place in a committed relationship. I, personally, find it pretty disrespectful.

I don't think a lot of men really understand how psychologically degrading it can feel to people like us who aren't comfortable with the idea, to know that your OH is there banging away at himself to pictures of incredibly gorgeous women who look nothing like you and who will do things you'll probably never do. You wonder why he can't just be happy with you, as you presumably are with him; you wonder why he HAS to have these other women to use for sexual gratification and why he can't just, out of respect for his partner, keep it in his head; you wonder if he wants you to be like them, if he wants to use you the way he uses them. You wonder why he fights like a dog for the right to keep looking at these pictures without giving a damn how insignificant they can make you feel.

There's also the nagging thought about what it means in regards to how he views women, depending on the type of porn he's watching, but I won't bother getting into it here.

Whatever everyone else will inevitably say, you are not alone and you're not strange or a prude for feeling this way. I don't know why everyone's been conditioned to think men have a right to porn while in a relationship and that it should not be something that should affect you, but them's the breaks. In 2011, porn is now a human right, and you're going to be incredibly hard pressed to find any man who will give it up or ever think only you are enough. We just have to suck it up and put it in the back of our heads and pretend it doesn't happen if we don't like it.

Sorry I couldn't tell you anything better, but I mean, what can you do?

Ickle Magoo

Hey OP,

There is no magic line we can give you that is going to convince you that porn can be as much of a masturbatory aid to men as a vibrator can be to women and neither is there some magic argument that can be given to your boyfriend to convince him that pornography is completely unacceptable, because of course it isn't...its unacceptable to you and with regards to the boundaries you hold for your relationships - and therein lies the problem.

If you view porn as completely unacceptable and he views it as completely normal then you have stale-mate. If you want your relationship to succeed you are going to have to keep talking about it and either come to an understanding which is mutually acceptable or part ways.

All the best.

Hazys

You are saying he's not taking your points and feelings on board and being unfair but are you taking his points and feelings on board and being fair? Its seems you are disregarding his points as much as he is disregarding yours.


Also keep in mind your boyfriend is doing what the vast majority of guys do in a relationship and dont consider it cheating or an escape from a relationship and what most people would consider normal.

Mallei

fungun wrote: »

Dont think you can ask him to stop unless you are willing to. And I think the difference between the two acts is very small....enough for you to justify that what you are doing is ok but what he is doing is not.

Sorry, but that's simply not true. Watching porn is not equivalent to using a toy. The OP already said that she doesn't mind him just masturbating on his own. I can assure you that a lot of women when they use their toys imagine their partner with them, but owing to a lot of factors they get their best orgasms from the toy and so use that on occasion.

Surely if you don't see the difference then you could go the other way and say there's a fine line between getting yourself off by looking at images of naked women and imagining you're with them, and then actually going and getting with other women? It's not true, of course, but they're just as similar.

seenitall

I'll make it short and to the point:

end the relationship now, because whichever way you cut it here, someone is going to end up feeling short-changed at best, or, via the highways and by-ways of resentment, like an evasive siht at worst, so it isn't fair on either of you.

Aim to find a religious or at least a conservative-leaning guy for yourself in the future, I think there will be more of a compatibility fit for you with one of those (although I may be very naive about that! ).

Best wishes.

S23

We've had this one a million times. I'm sure a Moderator could link to some old posts. I remember an absolutely epic thread on the topic a few months back.

Anyway as Seamus kindly warned us this isn't a right v wrong debate. It actually can't be because there is not right or wrong in this case only preference. I will add the caveat that this applies as long as the OP's boyfriend isn't accessing any child porn type sites which I'm going to assume is the case.

The boyrfriend isn't wrong to watch porn. The OP isn't wrong to dislike porn. It's a personal preference.

All this notion of replacement or not being enough is your own, though, OP. Until his porn habits become so extreme that he loses interest in a normal sexual relationship then he's only excercising a personal preference. Some men like to watch women with big boobs/bums/whatevers doing different things and whack off to it. It doesn't mean they don't love their wifes or OH's or anything of the sort.

Also he's not forcing it into your face as I'm presuming you'd have mentioned it if he did. He's doing it discreetly and in his own time. It's not had an effect on your sex life since you've not said as much. I don't see what actual harm he is doing at all.

That said you've told him you don't want him to do it and he won't stop. He has every right too, IMO, because, asi I have said before, there is not actual determenatal effect to the relationship. He doesn't have to share your views on porn and what you think (and it is only what you think OP) the 'meaning' and significance of him whacking it looking at pornstars is.

If you're not compatible on a base level then thats just the way it is. If he doesn't want to stop he doesn't have to. If you don't want to stay with him because he won't stop you don't have to. It's as simple as that really

Ickle Magoo

S23 wrote: »

We've had this one a million times. I'm sure a Moderator could link to some old posts.

We have but linking to threads of issues other people have raised is not permitted.

fungun

Mallei wrote: »

Sorry, but that's simply not true. Watching porn is not equivalent to using a toy. The OP already said that she doesn't mind him just masturbating on his own. I can assure you that a lot of women when they use their toys imagine their partner with them, but owing to a lot of factors they get their best orgasms from the toy and so use that on occasion.

Surely if you don't see the difference then you could go the other way and say there's a fine line between getting yourself off by looking at images of naked women and imagining you're with them, and then actually going and getting with other women? It's not true, of course, but they're just as similar.

Thats just ridiculous. Of course actually doing being with them is way different

I watch porn and fantasise about my partner. Is that ok? The visual stimulus just helps. Just like the vibrator helps her.

Anyway as seamus says lets not get into a right vs wrong argument about porn - my main point was that if she expects her bf to give up sth he does that she doesnt like, she should be willing to do the same for him. So if he said he hated her fantasising about other men whilst using a vibrator then the 'am i good enough' point she is making could be made the other way also. So cant have your cake and eat it....

liah

seenitall wrote: »

I'll make it short and to the point:

end the relationship now, because whichever way you cut it here, someone is going to end up feeling short-changed at best, or, via the highways and by-ways of resentment, like an evasive siht at worst, so it isn't fair on either of you.

Aim to find a religious or at least a conservative-leaning guy for yourself in the future, I think there will be more of a compatibility fit for you with one of those (although I may be very naive about that! ).

Best wishes.

You don't have to be religious or conservative to feel this way about porn, in fairness. There's a multitude of very valid reasons why a person could disagree with their partner viewing porn that don't come down to prudishness or religion or conservative views. I'm an incredibly socially liberal person and find the majority of things regarding the bedroom more than acceptable - but I don't like sneaky porn in my relationships. There's alternatives.

Hate that anyone with the OP's point of view automatically gets written off as insecure, conservative, or religious. Give me a break. There's more to the porn argument than what it does to your dick.

Fentdog84

If he wants to watch porn, on his laptop its kind of, in a way his own business. Porn is just an aid for masturbation nothing more or less, so its like asking him to stop masturbating when you are not around. To comprimise, Ask him not to do it when you are around/in front of you and to delete the search history when he's finished because you dont want to know anything about it and it upsets you. He needs to consider your feelings on this and if he's overtly brazen and in your face with it, you might have to dump him.

Taltos

OP - neither of you and yet both of you are right on this.

Either you find a way to come to an honest compromise
or
You agree that this is the make/break item and you have to split.

The reason I put in honest is a family member had this discussion with her now ex a few years ago. He swore it was all over and yet the kids years later stumbled up all of his crap - hey presto end of marriage and two messed up kids convinced it was a) their fault & b) daddy is a perv for looking at teen porn...

We all have comfort spots - in your case it is porn - in mine it is honest - if that area is broken only you can decide if it means the end.

Best of luck.

Mallei

S23 wrote: »

Some men like to watch women with big boobs/bums/whatevers doing different things and whack off to it.

Can you not see how this might emotionally cripple a woman? Women are brought up to see their self-worth defined by how attractive other people (in particular their partners) see them. Whatever you say about the rights or wrongs of that situation, it's the truth.

So the find out that your boyfriend is frantically bashing away at himself over womanly assets that you do not have is so, so upsetting. I had a boyfriend who would watch porn of women with large chests when he got the chance on his own. I don't have large breasts and it was a huge blow to learn how arousing he finds them; that one of his main fantasies is something I could never fulfill.

To put it another way, how would a man like it if his girlfriend pulled out a vibrator shaped like a ten-inch penis, thick and veiny and lifelike? Fact is, one of the main reasons they stopped making vibrators shaped like that as standard is because boyfriends, partners and husbands the world over felt so threatened.

seenitall

You misunderstood my post, liah. I certainly never wrote (or thought) this:

liah wrote: »

anyone with the OP's point of view automatically gets written off as insecure, conservative, or religious.

However I do believe that an average religious person will be more porn-averse than an average non-religious person, what with body being "the temple of God" (if I remember correctly from my sunday school ) etc.

strictly talking averages and probabilities here.

S23

Mallei wrote: »

Sorry, but that's simply not true. Watching porn is not equivalent to using a toy.

You're quite correct. Using your hand and some visuals to masturbate isn't equivalent to using a (usually) large motor driven falice that maintains it's erectness, constant thrusting and pulsing motion and capacity to give constant repeated orgasms long beyond the realms of mortal men.

liah wrote: »

I don't think a lot of men really understand how psychologically degrading it can feel to people like us who aren't comfortable with the idea, to know that your OH is there banging away at himself to pictures of incredibly gorgeous women who look nothing like you and who will do things you'll probably never do.

I could just as easily make the arugment that men find it psychologically degrading to be replaced by what is, in most cases, a far larger and prolific member than their own to sate their OH's sexual desires.

Ultimately it comes down to the individual. People who can accept that some people get off just to get off and there are no replacement issues or degredation involved. And those who do not accept that this is not the case and find more to it that a base instinct being satisfied.

Again it's just a case of compaibility/incompatibility.

Also, sorry Ickle, I wasn't aware that linkage wasn't allowed. I was sure I've seen it before but my bad I was actually trying to be helpful

S23

Mallei wrote: »

Can you not see how this might emotionally cripple a woman? Women are brought up to see their self-worth defined by how attractive other people (in particular their partners) see them. Whatever you say about the rights or wrongs of that situation, it's the truth.

Woah, woah, woah there. Your issues aren't everyone elses. I know many, many, many women and I can tell you that 99% of them would be mortally offended if I suggested that to them. I never would, though, because the kind of women I'm lucky enough to know are far more intelligent and confident that to get sucked into that kind of archaic thinking.

Mallei

I hardly mean that they're sexual slaves, but that women far more than men are judged on their attractiveness and have to define themselves in such a way to a larger extent.

That's not the only way they define themselves, of course, but compare the difference in female and male attitudes to dressing up to see my point. A woman needs make-up, a manicure, an expensive haircut; all things that aren't expected of men. He needs to be clean-shaven and have trimmed nails; he needs to be neat, not glamorous.

Again, this isn't the thread for this debate, but please don't argue that women aren't judged more harshly on their appearance in general.

Ickle Magoo

Final on-thread warning.

This is an advice forum - this thread is for offering the OP advice. The forum rules are very clear about off-topic posting and carrying on discussions with other posters.

If you wish a wider discussion on the more general aspects of pornography usage or have a debate about gender generalities, please take it to Humanities.

liah

seenitall wrote: »

You misunderstood my post, liah. I certainly never wrote (or thought) this:



However I do believe that an average religious person will be more porn-averse than an average non-religious person, what with body being "the temple of God" (if I remember correctly from my sunday school ) etc.

strictly talking averages and probabilities here.

Perhaps, but I would imagine just as many have problems with the implications, the psychology involved behind its use, why it is seen as a completely non-negotiable requirement to use other people for sexual gratification while in a relationship and not simply be satisfied fantasizing, why it is just so impossible for these people to go without out of respect for the person they claim to love and whom they are upsetting, why they throw fits when they're asked not to use it without caring how it's impacting their partners, and how it reflects their opinion of their partner, among a variety of other things.

No one's saying men shouldn't masturbate, though, by any means. The problem is why they need porn.

As for the general vibrator vs. porn argument: Comparing it to a vibrator isn't a fair comparison - you can only really compare a vibrator to another physical sex toy. You can't compare using an object to facilitate a physical response to the viewing of actual human beings to rev your mind up in preparation by thinking about all the dirty things you'd love to do to them, unless you actually do objectify people, and that in and of itself is a bit unsettling.

EDIT: Just to add, ask your boyfriend if he'd be willing to trade up pics of other women for pics of you, maybe take some naughty ones or something. It doesn't have to be either or - you can compromise.

Morgase

OP, which bothers you more - your boyfriend getting turned on by other women, or how a lot of porn is degrading towards women and that aspect of it?

I'm asking you this because if it's the latter, there is more and more porn becoming made by more ethical companies. It's like they have minimum standards with regard to regular STD testing for their actors and that sort of thing. Would that help at all?

Also, there's a lot of cartoony porn (I'm sure there's a better phrase for it, but it escapes me) out there, which would mean that it's just pure imagination and no real people involved.

Good luck.

fungun

Lets look beyond the specifics.

Point is her bf does sth as a masturbatory aid that she does not like and wishes him to stop. Right or wrong, who cares, she wants him to stop because it upsets her. Should he/shouldnt he. Well its the age age age old 'if you loved me....' blah blah blah. Could be used either way. And he could also use the same argument in reverse about her vibrator and fantasies. Again, rightly or wrongly, lets not get into that.

Its all about typical relationship compromise; where and how you find that balance is something that is very different reln to reln. Id argue openness and trust and not be constraining each other. Someone else could argue the opposite and it could be true for them. Only OP can work this out in terms of what works for her reln.

LegacyUser

Morgase wrote: »

OP, which bothers you more - your boyfriend getting turned on by other women, or how a lot of porn is degrading towards women and that aspect of it?

I'm asking you this because if it's the latter, there is more and more porn becoming made by more ethical companies. It's like they have minimum standards with regard to regular STD testing for their actors and that sort of thing. Would that help at all?

Also, there's a lot of cartoony porn (I'm sure there's a better phrase for it, but it escapes me) out there, which would mean that it's just pure imagination and no real people involved.

Good luck.

It's more the personal side tbh Morgase. Whilst I appreciate that some porn is now being made "ethically", I imagine it still objectifies the women. Perhaps it doesn't, I wouldn't know, but I imagine the women are still all required to have fake bodies and the "ending" still takes place on various parts of their bodies.

But my main issue is that I do not like the thought that he is masturbating to pictures of other women flaunting their sexuality. These women are gorgeous and I could never look like that - he's basically saying that my body isn't nice enough and these other women really do it for him. Why else does he watch it? If he's just looking for physical gratification then he has a hand. I know that when I'm using my vibrator I'm thinking of him, why can't he do the same? Why does he have to imagine he's with people who aren't me?

And I know a lot of people (mostly men it seems) will find that unreasonable, but I can't help it. I just want to know how I can get him to stop. We can't carry on like this, but I love him in every other respect.

Sonics2k

I'll give the best advice I can OP, so here it goes.

Men masturbate, it really is as simple as that. Some of us prefer a visual aid, in fact it's proven men are turned on visually. Hence why so many men watch porn, it is not because it's dirty or the such.

I can pretty much guarantee that your partner is not fantasizing about other women, it really is nothing more than a means to climax.

Now, if you can honestly say that while you yourself have masturbated, have never thought of anyone other than your partner, then I can understand some of your problem.

I could also accept a major issue if he was a "Porno Creep" as in, can only climax with porn playing, but that does not seem to be the case.

Honestly, if you love this man, and he loves you, and everything else is good in your relationship, just accept the fact he's going to have the occasional wánk, just like everyone else in the world.

Count Duckula

In fairness, Sonic, I'm a man and I have watched porn, and if you claim you're not fantasising then that's untrue. Using something as a "visual aid" is tantamount to the same thing. You're looking at pictures of naked women and that's getting you off.

The issue here is whether the OP can handle that.

Personally, I'd say that if it bothers you that much then you should ask him to stop. Have you maybe tried erotic fiction or something? It does less for men generally than it does for women, but for some men it still does the trick. I occasionally try my hand at writing it and whilst the stories I come up with are absolutely dire, the practice of writing out some fantasies is a very satisfying replacement for actual visual pornography.

Ickle Magoo

liah warned for ignoring moderator instruction.

Please keep replies helpful to the OP and that doesn't mean carrying on a general discussion and throwing in a one liner to the OP at the end.

Many thanks.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

fungun

But my main issue is that I do not like the thought that he is masturbating to pictures of other women flaunting their sexuality. These women are gorgeous and I could never look like that - he's basically saying that my body isn't nice enough and these other women really do it for him. Why else does he watch it?

see this is the bit where there is a disconnect i feel. I honestly think the majority of men do not watch porn cos those women 'really do it for them'. I think you are putting your feelings into him in this situation....whereas actually he probably does not feel this way.
I hope you can find a solution OP

OP, you're totally entitled to dislike your boyfriend watching porn. You're also perfectly entitled to convey these feelings to him.

But you can't tell him what to do. You can ask, but if he's refused, he's refused.

If this is the only problem in your relationship, I'd advise you not to let it become the destruction of your relationship. Good things are hard to come by and it's usually best to find a compromise rather than turn it into a unstoppable force vs. immovable object type situation. You didn't say on what terms you discussed this with him, but I suspect it was confrontational/placing blame on each other/calling each other unfair. Rather than confronting him, try sitting him down and calmly explaining to each other how you see the situation. I suspect that he sees your request as irrational and that you see his refusal as irrational. Explanations are definitely the way to go. If he's willing to explain these things to you, try and be calm, patient, listen to what he has to say, and don't get upset at him/start crying. Let him know, without placing blame or acting overemotional, that you see it as him not thinking you're enough etc. I've no doubt that he'll assure you how he feels about you. It'll take some very calm discussion, but you may be able to find compromise.

seenitall

Boyfriend Troubles wrote: »

I just want to know how I can get him to stop.

Right. And your boyfriend's the disrespectful one? :rolleyes: If I knew that my OH was thinking/talking about me in these terms, he wouldn't see me for dust, whatever the issue at hand.

Firetrap

I don't see any great difference between his watching porn and you using a vibrator. Both are outside stimulii (for want of a better description) which aid masturbation. The only difference is that instead of your boyfriend using a battery operated implement, he's watching actual humans having sex. It's doubtful that your boyfriend is watching it because he particularly fancies the women in the scenes. Just like your vibrator, the porn is a means to an end.

carlybabe1

I agree with Mallei, I defo think you should give him a taste of his own medicine. It worked with my OH, when i explained that i didnt like the idea of him comparing my body with those of the airbrushed gravity defying boob displays ....When he refused to see my point, i downloaded a screensaver of a bloke with huge arms, a six pack and wat looked like a budgie shoved down the front of his shorts. He was not amused, and when he asked me why I had it i simply said "the same reason you look at porn, I just was more discreet about it than you were to spare your feelings but hey, whats good for the goose and all that" he hasnt looked at porn since, or if he has hes deff more discreet about it, and thats just fine with me...oooh, and dont forget to comment gratifyingly about the size of the packages hehehe..he'll know how it feels to be compared then :eek:

Mallei

carlybabe1 wrote: »

I agree with Mallei, I defo think you should give him a taste of his own medicine. It worked with my OH, when i explained that i didnt like the idea of him comparing my body with those of the airbrushed gravity defying boob displays ....When he refused to see my point, i downloaded a screensaver of a bloke with huge arms, a six pack and wat looked like a budgie shoved down the front of his shorts. He was not amused, and when he asked me why I had it i simply said "the same reason you look at porn, I just was more discreet about it than you were to spare your feelings but hey, whats good for the goose and all that" he hasnt looked at porn since, or if he has hes deff more discreet about it, and thats just fine with me...oooh, and dont forget to comment gratifyingly about the size of the packages hehehe..he'll know how it feels to be compared then :eek:

This is the best way to solve this problem. You're not being vindictive, you're simply doing the same thing as he is. I guarantee he won't like it one little bit if you start looking and salivating over men with bodies he can't have.

And yes, be sure to comment on how wonderful the size of the model / actor / sportsman's penis looks to be, and how that's just SO hot. Any good woman knows it's not all about size, but most men are so paranoid about the length of their d1cks that he'll run screaming if he thinks you think he's inadequate. And then he'll suddenly know how it feels when you catch him getting off over pictures of women with toned stomachs, huge boobs and big asses.

Mallei

Mallei wrote: »

This is the best way to solve this problem. You're not being vindictive, you're simply doing the same thing as he is. I guarantee he won't like it one little bit if you start looking and salivating over men with bodies he can't have.

And yes, be sure to comment on how wonderful the size of the model / actor / sportsman's penis looks to be, and how that's just SO hot. Any good woman knows it's not all about size, but most men are so paranoid about the length of their d1cks that he'll run screaming if he thinks you think he's inadequate. And then he'll suddenly know how it feels when you catch him getting off over pictures of women with toned stomachs, huge boobs and big asses.

Ehm, OP, please don't do this ^

Jack B. Badd

Mallei wrote: »

This is the best way to solve this problem. You're not being vindictive, you're simply doing the same thing as he is.

Except that you are being vindictive...

From the OP, it doesn't appear that the OH was watching porn in front of her, she simply came across it on his computer (in the history, not even an open window) in the same way she could have come across his facebook page or the last boards.ie thread he responded to. He wasn't rubbing her nose it in so why should she rub his nose in her porn. OP, I'll bet that if you go down this route he'll dump you for acting like a child. You asked him not to look at porn, he refused your request so perhaps you could stop using his computer or ask him to set the history to clean itself out on a daily basis. Discretness on his part seems like a fair compromise...

Fluorescence

carlybabe1 wrote: »

I agree with Mallei, I defo think you should give him a taste of his own medicine. It worked with my OH, when i explained that i didnt like the idea of him comparing my body with those of the airbrushed gravity defying boob displays ....When he refused to see my point, i downloaded a screensaver of a bloke with huge arms, a six pack and wat looked like a budgie shoved down the front of his shorts. He was not amused, and when he asked me why I had it i simply said "the same reason you look at porn, I just was more discreet about it than you were to spare your feelings but hey, whats good for the goose and all that" he hasnt looked at porn since, or if he has hes deff more discreet about it, and thats just fine with me...oooh, and dont forget to comment gratifyingly about the size of the packages hehehe..he'll know how it feels to be compared then :eek:

How childish. The OP's boyfriend isn't flaunting pics of porn actresses in her face, commenting on their cleavage or tight bodies, and generally rubbing her nose in it. She only found out because she used his laptop and it came up on the browsing history. This is terrible advice and I'd be ignoring it.

OP, I don't understand why you find porn so unacceptable despite your explanations, but I can say that he'll not be budging on this issue. It's not even an issue for him. Unless you can find some way to get past it (perhaps making your own porn vids with him or taking sexy pictures for him to use when you're not around), then this isn't going to work between ye.

baby and crumble

First of all, I genuinely don't see what the big deal about porn is. I watch it, and it's not that I'm fantasizing about people other than my girlfriend... it's just something that replaces my utter and complete lack of imagination!!

As far as relationships go, clearly the real issue is that you're at a major wall- as many posters have said, neither of you are right, and neither are wrong. However, both of you are guilty of stubborn attitudes. If you want a relationship to continue, you need to compromise, which it seems like you're unwilling to do. But BOTH of you do.

A suggestion that I haven't seen here already (edit: damn, beaten to the punch!) : why not make your own porn? I would imagine that you turn him on like crazy- else why would he be with you? He likes to jack off to porn. You feel threatened by the female porn stars. So, why not become the star yourself. You could start off by getting a boudoir photosession done, which is apparently great fun. Record yourself on a webcam saying what you'd like to do to him. Actually record yourselves having sex. Whatever you feel comfortable doing. I can only imagine that having his girlfriend do things like this, just for him, will make him feel awesome, and will keep him satisfied, porn wise. He'll have something to enjoy, and you will know that he's enjoying himself to you. win-win.

7Sins

I only read the OP here, so sorry guys. My take is based on the differences between men and women's sexuality. Men are "instant" that's the word I'll use. I'll speak for myself here. When I have sex with a woman, I generally feel very little until the point of you know what and then yipeeee! That's what we as men crave, it's seeking those 10 seconds or less of a climax to fulfil our sexual appetite. We seek this constantly. We need instant gratification and porn can help to provide that. Your take that he is cheating on you with other women is a gross exaggeration and very unfair on him. This is how men are built and I'm afraid you'll have to accept that. Ever hear of what you don't know, can't hurt you? tell him to hide it better

Zen65

Boyfriend Troubles wrote: »

But my main issue is that I do not like the thought that he is masturbating to pictures of other women flaunting their sexuality. These women are gorgeous and I could never look like that - he's basically saying that my body isn't nice enough and these other women really do it for him. Why else does he watch it? If he's just looking for physical gratification then he has a hand.

Please excuse me if my comments appear crude, I do not mean them to be, but to describe what goes on in a man's head during masturbation may help in some small way to understand the role that porn plays. Your statement above suggests to me that your interpretation of porn's role is erroneous.

Personally I'm not a fan of porn, but then I'm old enough to say that the internet wasn't available at the time in my life when porn might have been interesting for me. There are forms of porn that have no place in civilised society and I have no tolerance for people who use them (child porn, animal porn, graphic violent porn) but for the rest I am comfortable enough to say "whatever floats your boat" provided it is produced ethically by people who choose to work in that industry.

Most men masturbate, at some stage in their lives if not throughout their lives. Many women do too, though they are generally more discreet about it.

When men masturbate they rarely think about somebody they have real feelings for, because the objective of masturbation is not intimacy, it is release (of sexual tension, of fears, of stress, etc). The sexual images in their heads are "designed" to stimulate themselves sexually, not to arouse feelings of love, intimacy, and bonding. For an average man those images are not easily created and maintained throughout the activity, because to maintain the image while using the hand for self-arousal is a multi-tasking skill, and as you know men are generally less competent at multi-tasking.

If real feelings of intimacy were to arise during the act it could actually have the opposite effect to that intended, and may result in loss of erection.

Of course, men are not actually as stupid as the media might portray them to be. They know that real women do not look like those porn images because those images (in fact almost all media images of women, not just the porn images) have been air-brushed, digitally enhanced, or (video) shot using special lighting or lenses to enhance the image beyond what is seen in real life. Most men (I certainly don't pretend to speak on behalf of all men) do not actually draw comparisons between those porn images and their own partners. Indeed I would suggest that most of us would be uncomfortable at the idea of our partners dressing or behaving in such a manner.

You already understand the benefit of using an aid in masturbation, since you use an aid yourself.

For the single-tasking male, looking at the image of porn simply avoids the mental acrobatics of trying to conjure up a memory/created scene while performing a manual stimulation. Nothing more. The image is mentally discarded immediately afterwards.

I think that what you find offensive about your partner using porn is that his "mental images" actually take physical form, and you can see that form. I would imagine that your partner would not be pleased to see your own sex aid strewn around the bedroom after use, along with traces of the pleasure it brought you. Yet he probably feels comfortable with you owning it, and even knowing you use it does not trouble him. Seeing the evidence might!

So my suggestion Op, is that since there is no right-vs-wrong here in terms of his actions, that you should insist that he does not leave any traces of porn in your house. That includes no stored images on the PC, no stored website addresses (frankly I consider that leaving such websites in the history is very dangerous because you just don't know when a younger person may end up using your PC and stumbling upon such sites) and certainly no videos / magazines left around the house.

If you cannot accept that compromise, then it's a case of either ending the relationship or forcing a change in his behaviour against his will, not because it is wrong but because you don't accept that he should have the freedom to choose. I think this latter course of action is unhealthy, but it's a matter for the two of you.

Be at peace,

Z

Zen65

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Assuming this is true, I think Op should find it deeply worrying that her partner was using a mental image of somebody he knew, especially somebody he worked with. To my way of thinking, using the image of a porn actor is preferable, since in that case the actor has chosen to have her image used in this way.

Be at peace,

Z

HugoDrax

Hi OP,

You are completely overreacting and you are being incredibly naive.

Men think about sex all the time and they separate sex from love.

The other day I was on my bf's laptop and found a pornsite in his history (you know the way it completes websites for you when you type them in). I asked him about it and he got all defensive and we had a row.

In case you are unaware the number no.1 use of the internet world wide is porn. Porn sites get bigger hits than Hollywood, news, online gaming, gambling, sport and music put together on the internet.

He knows I don't like porn. I've asked him not to watch it before. I know some women don't mine their men watching porn but I'm not one of them, and I know I'm not alone in it either. I don't like the way porn is made and how degrading it is the women but on a more personal level I also hate the idea that he's getting off to explicit images of other women. I know some people argue that it's just a fantasy but a fantasy is in your head. He's actually looking at other women and imagining having sex with them and I find that upsetting.

Men look at other women all the time and imagine having sex with them. Middle aged men who have teenage daughters imagine having sex with their friends but they don't do or say anything about it.Even the nice harmless 80 year old men you see shuffling about are checking you and every other woman out because they wish they were 19 years old and they were playing the field.
Deal with it.

Thing is, he won't see my side. When I asked him to stop he said he didn't see why he had to because he wasn't replacing me he was just having some time to himself and although I said his "time to himself" involved pretending he was with other women, he almost seemed incapable of understanding why that was upsetting.

Men who are in relationships with women will still masturbate. Porn is an aid.

He even tried to turn the argument around and said that he'd stop watching porn when I stopped using my vibrator on my own!!!

He has a point.

I tried to say that I don't have a problem with him masturbating because yes I do that with my toy too but the problem is that he's doing it over pictures of other women.

A toy is a substitute penis isn't it? When you use it are you not imagining your bf or some Hollywood hunk is having sex with you?

How do I try and resolve this? he seems determined not to stop his porn habit and I don't think I can stay with him when I know he's continuing to do something that upsets me so much when I've asked him to stop.

Every man who knows how to use a computer looks at porn. Every single one.
You are never going to a find a man on earth who does not look at porn.

Am I not enough???

No woman is enough. No sex is enough. Men want to have as much sex as possible with as many women as possible. But most men do fall in love and do want to have relationships but their penises do not have off switches.

There is a double standard here because many men get incredibly turned on by watching their partner masturbate to porn and many men would enjoy watching their partner having sex with either men or women - as long as they knew they were not losing out and their partner was not going to leave them.

You have probably been brought up to believe that when someone loves someone they stop thinking about other people or having sex with other people but that simply is not true.

Your bf might look at less porn if you acted out some of his fantasies - why not pretend he is a pizza delivery boy or a plumber who has come to fix your boiler etc etc?

Count Duckula

I think, broadly speaking OP, you need to learn to deal with it. If it bothers you that much then ask him to be more discreet about it.

Rightly or wrongly, men nowadays watch porn. The internet has made it so easy to obtain and conceal that they simply won't ignore it. It clearly bothers you that your boyfriend watches it, but he won't stop, and if you break up with him because you can't handle it you'll have a nasty surprise when every subsequent man you are with also watches porn.

As much as you claim that the porn is replacing you (he's fantasising about other women) he could claim that the toy is replacing him (you're getting physical stimulation and orgasms from it). Now, I'm sure you can say that the toy is providing something different to sex with him, but as a man his brain is wired to think that physical stimulation is the most important thing about sex - and so something that does it better than him is going to replace him. He finds it much harder to separate the pleasure of the toy and the intimacy of sex.

In the same way, you're struggling to separate the images of a woman with the desire to have sex with her (and thus not with you). A man's brain is wired differently; he's not fantasizing about that woman in particular, he's merely enjoying the sight of a sexual encounter. It's firing off all the appropriate parts of his brain which will lead to the result he wants - the orgasm. As far as I am aware, women tend to spin out their mastubatory sessions. They enjoy the feeling and the build-up, will tease things out and enjoy the whole thing until finally they get their orgasm. A man wants to have his orgasm as soon as he possibly can, and he doesn't give two ****s about the build-up. Porn just speeds that along by getting everything revved up in the first place.

Distorted

HugoDrax wrote: »

Your bf might look at less porn if you acted out some of his fantasies - why not pretend he is a pizza delivery boy or a plumber who has come to fix your boiler etc etc?

I've been sitting on the fence with this one a bit. Porn doesn't bother me that much, unless it became obsessive. But this comment sums up my biggest concern with it - that it would lead your partner to think some of the stuff he sees in porn films is par for the course and would make him expect it. Which could get tiresome after a while.

Porn stars make their living out of doing this sort of stuff and other, more adventurous stuff.

Apart from that, if porn viewing bothers one party to the relationship a great deal, then its probably best to desist, for the good of the relationship.

Bloody Nipples

Distorted wrote: »

Apart from that, if porn viewing bothers one party to the relationship a great deal, then its probably best to desist, for the good of the relationship.

Where do you draw the line though? Do you stop doing anything that bothers the other person? At a certain point you have to stand up for your principles. Porn isn't cheating, it's just an aid for sexual stimulation. As a guy, I can safely say I don't fantasize about being there having sex with a porn star and I'm not sure how many women understand how guys compartmentalise their sexual desires.

The arguement has been made about using a vibrator. I watch porn but sex with my gf is infinitely better and she knows I'd rather sleep with her than have a lonely fap in my room. Put the boot on the other foot and when it comes down to the sexual act, a vibrator is more satisfying than most men ever could be. I for one accept I don't have the stamina of two AA batteries. All I can supply is the post-coitus intimacy which a lot of women value more than sex.
But it still makes us feel that little bit inadequate. So to the OP I'd say, you could suggest compromise, you ditch the vibrator if he stops using porn.

murpho999

OP......I think you have to displace your dislike of porn against your partners like for it.

After all, everyone is different and has different tastes, and relationships should always be based on compromises and not ultimatums.

If you hated football and your partner liked it a lot, would you tell him to stop watching it? Of course not.

You have to realise that us men are wired completely differently to how ladies are.
In general, men would have a desire/need to orgasm more than women would, now I doubt you can be around or have an inclination to 'help out' every time so he is going to masturbate.

Use of porn is just a visual stimulation to bring him to orgasm. Men are aroused much more by visual imagery than women.
When he's looking at porn he is just using it to get aroused or live out a fantasy and that's as far as it goes.
I doubt he is thinking the ladies in the films are more attractive than you. Nor will he want in reality to partake in the situations he is watching. It's just a tool to bring him to orgasm like your vibrator is.

I also do not believe that whilst you use your vibrator that your thoughts have never wandered to some other man in your life or a famous attractive person, I'm sure you fantasise sometimes and that is the same is what your partner is doing whist watching porn.

As for your future I think you need to compromise.

Argue all you like about porn being degrading to women, but do you think a man really cares about that whilst being aroused?

You will need to accept that this is part of your man's life that he enjoys in his private time and it is not a threat to you or your relationship, and is more a release for him that is almost immediately forgotten about when finished.
He is not going to stop and will resort to doing it secretly if you pressure him and I don't see how that can be beneficial.

Hope you can work it out and move on together, really don't think that this should be a relationship breaker.
Being unfaithful with a real person or being dishonest is more serious in my opinion that watching porn.
May I suggest that maybe you bring porn into your sex lives and watch it sometimes together? May seem dispicable to you now but it can actually arouse couples together, lead to nice love making and maybe relax your attitudes to porn?

Hope this helps, and good luck.

prinz

Boyfriend Troubles wrote: »

How do I try and resolve this?

You made your feelings on the issue very clear. The topic has come up before. He knew where you stand. He disregarded that for whatever reason. You could give him another chance, or you make ckear that you will walk from the relationship.

Boyfriend Troubles wrote: »

he seems determined not to stop his porn habit and I don't think I can stay with him when I know he's continuing to do something that upsets me so much when I've asked him to stop.

I am glad you used the word habit, because that it all it is. It's not a requirement, or a need, it's a want. Not all men are into it contrary to popular opinion.

Just like anything you 'want for the fun of it' in a relationship both parties get to make an input, so disregard anyone who claims you have no right to have an opinion on this matter. It's a habit that your boyfriend can choose to break if he wants keep that in your mind when you are weighing things up.

Boyfriend Troubles wrote: »

Am I not enough???

Don't question yourself, or doubt yourself, or blame yourself. This is something he has to face one way or the other.

OP I do not think as you say in the title that this is anything to do with "fairness", but more a failure in communication and understanding - mostly on his part from the sounds of it but we all have our failures in these things. One point I would make for example is that very little about watching porn is imagining being with the people in it, but more about imagining being in the situations in it, often with the person you are currently going out with. For others it is nothing to do with the people in it, but the acts of sex in it stimulating the same things in our own brains.

I say it is not anything to do with fairness, it is more to do with each of us and the kind of people we are. Relationships are about finding people we are compatible with. It is no more or less unfair of him to demand you let him watch it then it is for you to demand he does not. This is just the people you both are, and you might not be compatible on this point.

If porn is something you and he cannot be moved on, then it is a point where you simply are not compatible. As with any incompatibility in any relationship it is up to each of you to first decide if either of you can change… but if not then to decide if it is a deal breaker for the relationship... or are compromises possible.

What a compromise could be is wholly up to you but there may be a lot more than you think if you explore the issue together with him, rather than he or you giving the other ultimatums. Some examples to get you thinking:

Some people simply turn a blind eye to it and say “Have your porn but keep it away from me I want to know nothing about it”. Other compromises are that you only watch it together. This works for some couples I have experience with.

I also have experience with people where the girl, like you, had trouble with the way girls were treated in porn, and the solution we found was that she would find and purchase the kind of porn she was ok with and that was what he would look at. I could, for example, recommend some porn sites made entirely by women, with only women in it, no men near the directing, production, camera (in front or behind it) or anything else. Very tasteful, very much respecting the women in it, and still no less sexy for it. In the couples I worked with even the girl who first hated porn came to enjoy some of this. It was almost porn made by women, about women... in some cases for women.

Another common one, which I did myself for reasons of fun rather than because anyone had a problem with porn.... is that you make your own porn together as a couple. From many obvious reasons this involves trust… but many people enjoy it. They film each other alone, or together, and this becomes their porn. I myself have entirely lost interest in any other porn and am quite happy with the few movies, and photo galleries, I have.

Whatever the result… this is a conversation you can have with each other in an adult fashion, without accusation and especially without either making demands. Simply lay out how you both feel. Explore with him what he gets from porn too. Ask him, rather than just make assumptions. See if you can then use that information to understand what kind of compromise might be achievable.

Important is to realize that a conflict like this will not be resolved by either side making demands of the other, or accusations. You need to work towards a change in one of you, or a compromise between you, or simply admit you may not be compatible on this issue and it is a “show stopper”.