12,50 an hour for qualified electricians

Bill Electrical Aprentice

a company i use to work for in ireland a fairly large electrical company, i heard last week are only paying qualified electrican's 12,50 an hour no lodge no travel is this possible ?? there based in the south thats all im saying i could be wrong but thats what i heard.

beanie10

Yep sounds right should be glad to get it!

mattjack

Bill Electrical Aprentice wrote: »

a company i use to work for in ireland a fairly large electrical company, i heard last week are only paying qualified electrican's 12,50 an hour no lodge no travel is this possible ?? there based in the south thats all im saying i could be wrong but thats what i heard.

I,ve heard of 9 euro an being offered to electricians...beanie crawl back under your rock

beanie10

isnt it better than dole

mattjack

beanie10 wrote: »

isnt it better than dole

not really..I served a four yr apprenticeship ..then an extra five yrs for full proffienncy...did a few city and guilds and a few other courses ..some paid for by myself...and if someone thinks I,m gonna work for half the union rate at 40 years of age ..they are sadly mistaken.I work part time now..and I do contract work at 150 euros approx.

mattjack

150 per day approx.

blackwolf

If possible move to oz i heard they are crying out for trades men a friend of mine a plasterer couldnt get work here he was washing cars at a local car wash now he is getting 1000 a week over there with a great lifestyle

ted1

the union wage is too high for this day and age. Alot of people looking for work out there. and there are plenty of sparks out there who would be happy for a weekly wage greater than the dole.

m.j.w

mattjack wrote: »

I,ve heard of 9 euro an being offered to electricians...beanie crawl back under your rock

Yea I know of a place offering 9 euro aswell

sealgaire

mattjack wrote: »

not really..I served a four yr apprenticeship ..then an extra five yrs for full proffienncy...did a few city and guilds and a few other courses ..some paid for by myself...and if someone thinks I,m gonna work for half the union rate at 40 years of age ..they are sadly mistaken.I work part time now..and I do contract work at 150 euros approx.

Tradesmen always go on about the 4 year apprenticeships they had to do. WE ALL DID IT! I was in 3rd level for 6 years! AND I WASN'T PAID A WAGE.
Get over it, your crowds day of robbing people blind is over, thank god

mattjack

sealgaire wrote: »

Tradesmen always go on about the 4 year apprenticeships they had to do. WE ALL DID IT! I was in 3rd level for 6 years! AND I WASN'T PAID A WAGE.
Get over it, your crowds day of robbing people blind is over, thank god

I NEVER ROBBED ANYBODY........3rd level ? fantastic ..delighted for ya...what would you suggest paying tradesmen....? give us a rundown on paying construction professionals ,semi skilled and unskilled workers while your at it .As far as I know the union rate now for an industrial electrician is 22 euros approx , employers about 55 euros an hour providing electricians...remember now... if you pay peanuts you,ll get monkeys....

sealgaire

mattjack wrote: »

you,ll get monkeys....

True .. .

You think €20 + an hour is sustainable!?!?!?!?!?!?

mattjack

sealgaire wrote: »

True .. .

You think €20 + an hour is sustainable!?!?!?!?!?!?

what do you think is a fair rate..?

SparKing

sealgaire wrote: »

Tradesmen always go on about the 4 year apprenticeships they had to do. WE ALL DID IT! I was in 3rd level for 6 years! AND I WASN'T PAID A WAGE.
Get over it, your crowds day of robbing people blind is over, thank god

You weren't paid a wage when you were studying at 3rd level because
YOU WEREN'T WORKING!
Also depending on what course you did, you could have had as little as 15 hours a week of lectures for about 8 months of the year.
Also apprenticeship are effectively 5 years of at least 40 hours a week of training.
Everybody was being paid a bit too much but if electricians rate across the board drops too low all better electricians will choose a different career and you'll be left with all the useless sparks who wouldn't know how to test an installation with the manual open in front if them.
BTW I'm 27 and sparking for 9 years how much is reasonable for me to take home every week?

sealgaire

mattjack wrote: »

what do you think is a fair rate..?

Not a clue but not €20 p/h!

SparKing

sealgaire wrote: »

Not a clue but not €20 p/h!

Yeah I think It's fair you haven't a clue.:rolleyes:

mattjack

One of the risks of employing poorly trained and paid electricians is shoddy work......which could kill you , so if you feel 20 or so euros an hour is too much , thats fair enough...would you gamble with a bad mechanic at your car ? or an unregistered gas fitter in your house ...? I doubt it ....I know I wouldnt..I,ve no idea what you do for a living Sealgaire...but I,m assuming you consider yourself well trained and wouldnt provide a shoddy service..the same as myself and a lot of other tradesmen...union rates are negotiated for a reason ..recognising a skill and trade...any trade...be they baker,mechanic and so on...

danbohan

SparKing wrote: »

Yeah I think It's fair you haven't a clue.:rolleyes:

no point in attacking the poster , maybe its fair maybe its not , its all about supply and demand and right now the supply of electricians is much greater than the demand , thats the new ireland , you will either adjust to the reality or try somewhere else

SparKing

danbohan wrote: »

no point in attacking the poster , maybe its fair maybe its not , its all about supply and demand and right now the supply of electricians is much greater than the demand , thats the new ireland , you will either adjust to the reality or try somewhere else

He said he didn't have a clue, I agreed, I also though it was funny.

This isn't a free market economy, the labour market is regulated,so it isn't and shouldn't be all about supply and demand.
BTW I think the boardsie I so cruelly attacked is training to be or is a teacher (from what. I can gather from his previous posts) , the majority of whom work in the most protected labour market in this country, so I couldn't care less about their opinion on MY wages.

danbohan

SparKing wrote: »

He said he didn't have a clue, I agreed, I also though it was funny.

This isn't a free market economy, the labour market is regulated,so it isn't and shouldn't be all about supply and demand.
BTW I think the boardsie I so cruelly attacked is training to be or is a teacher (from what. I can gather from his previous posts) , the majority of whom work in the most protected labour market in this country, so I couldn't care less about their opinion on MY wages.

does not matter what regulation is in place , if and when an economy like ireland reaches a point such as it has reached then ,wages will fall to a level that your competition is willing to work for , if you dont want work for those wages so be it . unless of course you are like our friend in the public/ semi state sector where no realism applies yet .

SparKing

The point I and others have made is that a wage should be enough to encourage standards In electrical installation is kept high.
Safety is of the utmost importance with regard to our trade, a race to the bottom wages-wise will be of little benefit to the upkeep of the safety and standards on which the whole trade is based.
Maybe you think the wages are too high, I personally don't think that €600 take home pay is particularly high.

EL_Loco

average industrial wage: 36,000

20euro p/h * 40 hours/week * 50 weeks/yr = 40,000

throw in the fact you wouldn't be working consistantly, it may drop a bit. So it's probably about right.

that being said, alot of people aren't being paid what they used to, and it's an employer's market so maybe some reduction should be expected.

btw, I'm not an electrician.

dolittle

its a bigger question than just electricians rates
we earned a wage during the boom while our bosses earned the big wedge
we are, if lucky enough, still earning a weekly wage while they cry about falling profits
first electricians then carpenters, brickies, plumbers will all follow suit
keep the working classes down while the bankers and investors escape
(get down off my soapbox now)

Bruthal

Well if the rates were at the same as a job packing the shelves in lidl etc, the lidl job would be far more appealing.

beanie10

So there is only good electricians on €20 per hour!!!!As a contractor myself Ive come across my fair share of useless tits demand €1,000 per week.Im all for doing a job well and every one get paid (staff,suppliers,directors).Its about time that electricians in this country realise that there is no contractor getting €55 per hour to supply a qualified electrician, a more realistic figure is €30 per hour (which reduces to €25 per hour after 4 hours) and believe me if a contrtactor gets that he is lucky.

Bruthal

No, but if the rate was €12.50 an hour, not as many good ones will do it, unless they love electrical work. Or unless the costs of living drop to mid 90`s levels. Maybe they will eventually though. Its all relative. €12.50 an hour could be plenty if the living costs were low enough. But if electrical work was on a par with non skilled jobs wages wise, i would never want to do it again. I dont do it much now as it is thankfully.

beanie10

The only way to get the cost of living down is to get the wages down, wages are too high in this country and as wages go up cost of living goes up.

.G.

dolittle wrote: »

its a bigger question than just electricians rates
we earned a wage during the boom while our bosses earned the big wedge
we are, if lucky enough, still earning a weekly wage while they cry about falling profits
first electricians then carpenters, brickies, plumbers will all follow suit
keep the working classes down while the bankers and investors escape
(get down off my soapbox now)

The construction REA which covers Brickies,carpenters and plumbers had its pay rate reduced by 7.5% recently.

I could live with that sort of a drop,€12.50 an hour or less is a total joke.

The current climate is just an excuse for employers to try fleece their staff.

beanie10

superg wrote: »

The construction REA which covers Brickies,carpenters and plumbers had its pay rate reduced by 7.5% recently.

I could live with that sort of a drop,€12.50 an hour or less is a total joke.

The current climate is just an excuse for employers to try fleece their staff.

Its not an excuse and if you really believe that why dont you go out and set up your own business pay your tax, prsi, pension, insurance, suppliers, wages etc., look for a contract and you will get some awakening as to the real state of affairs in this country.
Average of 5 electrical contractors price each job and you would be surprised at the value of the winning contract. Guarantee you with your attitude you wont get within an ass`s roar of it.

Bruthal

beanie10 wrote: »

Its not an excuse and if you really believe that why dont you go out and set up your own business pay your tax, prsi, pension, insurance, suppliers, wages etc., look for a contract and you will get some awakening as to the real state of affairs in this country.
Average of 5 electrical contractors price each job and you would be surprised at the value of the winning contract. Guarantee you with your attitude you wont get within an ass`s roar of it.

Well then tell us what the rate should be.

beanie10

robbie7730 wrote: »

Well then tell us what the rate should be.

Dont get me wrong the rate shouild be €22 per hour but in recession the private sector gets hit first and hardest.The banks has no money therefore the people have no money, we have too many electricians in this country(thats FAS fault). If you are a qualified electrician and are offered €12.50 per hour grab it with both hands, you wont get an offer like it again.
The government has alot to answer for too in relation to public tenders as no matter what the cheapest gets it, and we end up with situation like Pierse Construction where no subcontractors get paid but dont worry the subcontractors staff get there wages.

mattjack

beanie10 wrote: »

So there is only good electricians on €20 per hour!!!!As a contractor myself Ive come across my fair share of useless tits demand €1,000 per week.Im all for doing a job well and every one get paid (staff,suppliers,directors).Its about time that electricians in this country realise that there is no contractor getting €55 per hour to supply a qualified electrician, a more realistic figure is €30 per hour (which reduces to €25 per hour after 4 hours) and believe me if a contrtactor gets that he is lucky.

thats nowadays....I,ve seen those tits on site who tell you they can do anything...and I,m well aware that contractors often use subbies who pay thier own employees a differant rate...I,d agree with ya bout the 55 euros an hour thats gone now.. but 4 or 5 yrs ago that was what was being asked for...and I understand what you are saying about employer prsi,paying wholesalers,insurance and employing ancillary staff in offices

2011

Mattjack:

As far as I know the union rate now for an industrial electrician is 22 euros approx , employers about 55 euros an hour providing electricians...remember now... if you pay peanuts you,ll get monkeys....

The rate is the same for industrial and domestic electricians.
At the moment employers get nowhere near €55 an hour even in the industrial sector (even on day works). Part of my job is to review tenders from E & I contractors.

Speaking as a qualified electrician I feel that in general electricians deserve the TEEU rate, pension etc.
The problem is (in my opinion) this rate is not financially viable in most cases (not all). For example, when you think about it there is only so much that a contractor can charge for domestic work.

When I was an electrical contractor like many other contractors I made the decision very early on that I could not afford to employ an electrician, so I only had apprentices.

Irish electrical contractors are trying to compete electrical contractors from northern Ireland now too. You can be sure that their electricians do not get the same rate. I am sure you have seen the vans on the road.

average industrial wage: 36,000

20euro p/h * 40 hours/week * 50 weeks/yr = 40,000

throw in the fact you wouldn't be working consistantly, it may drop a bit. So it's probably about right.

The rate is €2 per hour higher than that. You have to add in country money/travel money (this can be an extra €160 extra per week), pension entitlements, not to mention overtime at time and a half and double time.
Again, like I said I think electricians deserve this it just isn't affordable anymore.

At the moment we have a massive oversupply of electricians

2011

mattjack wrote: »

I,m well aware that contractors often use subbies who pay thier own employees a differant rate

Yes, this is true. In many cases the only way an electrician can get work is to go the subbie route. I fear that pretty soon the only employed electricians will be subbies. Then every electrician will be on whatever rate he can negotiate. Contractors can hire and fire with impunity and not have to worry about giving notice or paying into a pension. A real race to the bottom! The only upside to this is that the low quality cowboy waster electricians (a minority, but there are plenty of these) will get minimum wage!

Contractors will argue that they are forced into this position, and many may think that there is some merit in that argument.

.G.

beanie10 wrote: »

Its not an excuse and if you really believe that why dont you go out and set up your own business pay your tax, prsi, pension, insurance, suppliers, wages etc., look for a contract and you will get some awakening as to the real state of affairs in this country.
Average of 5 electrical contractors price each job and you would be surprised at the value of the winning contract. Guarantee you with your attitude you wont get within an ass`s roar of it.

My own boss gets 28 quid an hour on one of his contracts so I'm fully aware of the state of play,which is why I'm not my own boss nor will I be anytime soon.Nobody forced you or him into becoming a contractor did they,you knew the score when you and the thousands of other contractors joined the bandwagon during the boom and now have got caught with your pants down in a radically reduced market fighting against all the others who did it too.Such is life,if you don't like it find a new career.Its become a them and us exercise,you and all the other contractors against us the sparks.You can't get rid of your excessive number of competitors so you join together to attack your workforce in time honoured fashion.I'm am very good at my job,I take pride in my work,I've excelled in every exam I undertook and I would not accept such a drop at the end of it.I'd rather work in McDonalds.Such an approach will guarantee that the only people you will get working for that money is exactly the type of sparks that those in the NECI and yourself complain about having to pay top wack to,ie the rubbish ones.A resonable drop is to be expected and should be embraced by all involved, not a 50% drop however

beanie10 wrote: »

Dont get me wrong the rate shouild be €22 per hour but in recession the private sector gets hit first and hardest.The banks has no money therefore the people have no money, we have too many electricians in this country(thats FAS fault). If you are a qualified electrician and are offered €12.50 per hour grab it with both hands, you wont get an offer like it again.
The government has alot to answer for too in relation to public tenders as no matter what the cheapest gets it, and we end up with situation like Pierse Construction where no subcontractors get paid but dont worry the subcontractors staff get there wages.

During the boom companies couldnt get enough cheap labour via registering new apprentices,not FAS's fault at all,what were they supposed to do refuse employers they staff they wanted?

However I agree it has left us with an oversupply of sparks,however the same can be said for contractors,over 4000 in a small country like this! Fine during the boom,not so now.

Its a typical one sided argument from employers that you bring,cut wages then we'll be fine blah,blah,blah.Fact is,sad for those involved as it would be,if a few thousand contractors go to the wall it will help those still surviving,harsh,but reality.For our side like I said above we must be willing to accept "reasonable,sustainable" cuts to our wages,but since the price of nothing else is dropping,a 50% odd cut to our wages is ridiculous

EDIT:just reading the other replies since I typed this and I feel the oversupply of electricians is overstated.We have too many electricians AND too many companies fighting for massively reduced amounts of work.We need to shed plenty of both.

2011

superg wrote: »

My own boss gets 28 quid an hour on one of his contracts

That sounds about right. As you can imagine there is not much profit from that once the proper rate is paid (+travel etc.) as well as all of the associated costs (van, insurance etc...). What also has to be factored in is all of the jobs where the contractor simply can't get paid by the customer! Contractors can also spend a lot of time pricing jobs that they never get and time is money! Worse still is when a job is under priced...

Such is life,if you don't like it find a new career.

This is what many electricians and contractors are doing.

I'm am very good at my job,I take pride in my work,I've excelled in every exam I undertook and I would not accept such a drop at the end of it.

I agree with you 100%. The wage drop described by the OP is simply not acceptable. However the wages sought are not affordable. There has to be a balance.

Such an approach will guarantee that the only people you will get working for that money is exactly the type of sparks that those in the NECI and yourself complain about having to pay top wack to,ie the rubbish ones.

True

A resonably drop is to be expected and should be embraced by all involved, not a 50% drop however

Exactly, because if a contractor is charging €28 per hour for an electrician he will not make any money by paying the full rate as it is now.
The key phrase is "reasnoble drop in pay".

However I agree it has left us with an oversupply of sparks,however the same can be said for contractors,over 4000 in a small country like this! Fine during the boom,not so now.

+1 there is a massive over supply. 4000 sounds like a lot but many of the contractors are one man bands.

beanie10

superg wrote: »

My own boss gets 28 quid an hour on one of his contracts so I'm fully aware of the state of play,which is why I'm not my own boss nor will I be anytime soon.Nobody forced you or him into becoming a contractor did they,you knew the score when you and the thousands of other contractors joined the bandwagon during the boom and now have got caught with your pants down in a radically reduced market fighting against all the others who did it too.Such is life,if you don't like it find a new career.Its become a them and us exercise,you and all the other contractors against us the sparks.You can't get rid of your excessive number of competitors so you join together to attack your workforce in time honoured fashion.I'm am very good at my job,I take pride in my work,I've excelled in every exam I undertook and I would not accept such a drop at the end of it.I'd rather work in McDonalds.Such an approach will guarantee that the only people you will get working for that money is exactly the type of sparks that those in the NECI and yourself complain about having to pay top wack to,ie the rubbish ones.A resonable drop is to be expected and should be embraced by all involved, not a 50% drop however



During the boom companies couldnt get enough cheap labour via registering new apprentices,not FAS's fault at all,what were they supposed to do refuse employers they staff they wanted?

However I agree it has left us with an oversupply of sparks,however the same can be said for contractors,over 4000 in a small country like this! Fine during the boom,not so now.

Its a typical one sided argument from employers that you bring,cut wages then we'll be fine blah,blah,blah.Fact is,sad for those involved as it would be,if a few thousand contractors go to the wall it will help those still surviving,harsh,but reality.For our side like I said above we must be willing to accept "reasonable,sustainable" cuts to our wages,but since the price of nothing else is dropping,a 50% odd cut to our wages is ridiculous

EDIT:just reading the other replies since I typed this and I feel the oversupply of electricians is overstated.We have too many electricians AND too many companies fighting for massively reduced amounts of work.We need to shed plenty of both.

Who said i became a contractor during the boom time?Bit of an assumption there, I havent been caught with my pants down either. By the esounds or it you have been caught with your pants down cause for €28 an hour you couldnt be getting union rate unless your boss is paying you out of his own pocket.
50 % is a big drop but its a sign of the times, when things were good everyone was happy but the money and work isnt there anymore.You cant squeeze blood from a stone

beanie10

One of your bosses contracts is for €28 an hour wich is a 50% reduction and business running costs are going up, yet you reckon its not worth it if your wages is cut 50%.

mattjack

beanie,2011 ..appreciate all your comments

2011

mattjack wrote: »

beanie,2011 ..appreciate all your comments

Thanks

.G.

beanie10 wrote: »

Who said i became a contractor during the boom time?Bit of an assumption there, I havent been caught with my pants down either. By the esounds or it you have been caught with your pants down cause for €28 an hour you couldnt be getting union rate unless your boss is paying you out of his own pocket.
50 % is a big drop but its a sign of the times, when things were good everyone was happy but the money and work isnt there anymore.You cant squeeze blood from a stone

Regardless of when you went into business the REA existed and its terms were clear,you can't cry foul now just cos its face no longer fits.I've acknowledged the need for reasonable change to it but thats not the whole argument as I have already pointed out.Thanks for doing the usual and focussing on the money an employee is earning rather than the other valid points in my argument.Its not all about what we earn,far from it.Its all our fault you're struggling don't you know.NECI and their mates should be celebrating each time one of their competitors goes to the wall,instead they whine like banshee's and spout that the only way to save the world is to slash and burn on wages,One eyed view IMO but I expect nothing less from contractor's

Wile E. Coyote

mattjack wrote: »

what do you think is a fair rate..?

How much work would you get done in an hour that would justify me paying you €20+ for it?

mattjack

Wile E. Coyote wrote: »

How much work would you get done in an hour that would justify me paying you €20+ for it?

be more specific ? give me an example of what particular work ? routine maintenance,verify and testing...mechanical containment etc...? cabling armour or pvc...?

Wile E. Coyote

Well what's the most basic every day call an electrician would get? Say something like a loose conection or fault wiring in a light switch. Not saying you shouldn't get paid €20+ just want to see how you justify it.

Wheelie King

Bill Electrical Aprentice wrote: »

a company i use to work for in ireland a fairly large electrical company, i heard last week are only paying qualified electrican's 12,50 an hour no lodge no travel is this possible ?? there based in the south thats all im saying i could be wrong but thats what i heard.

Good work if you can get it. I'm on minimum wage and wish to god i was on that sort of money.

.G.

Wile E. Coyote wrote: »

How much work would you get done in an hour that would justify me paying you €20+ for it?

On the flip side,how much profit per hour would you be happy with making on the hourly charge for your electrician and how much would you have the charge the customer to get it?

I'd be interested in any contractors views on this

If you could provide a breakdown of what it costs you to provide a sparks for an hour I'd very interested.It seems to me it would cost you his wages,pension contribution,prsi and your companies insurance bill for that hour but that is then offset as a business expense which reduces its cost.

this is how the negotiations on a reasonable rate would take place I'm sure,you show what it costs,we say how much we would like and then a deal is thrashed out

You can disregard travel pay and the like cos its a fallacy that companies pay it,they didnt in the boom and they certainly don't now.Disregard the cost of gear as thats always charged extra,plus a premium on top for supplying it. We can disregard transport and tools costs too,Every job I've ever seen since I've been in this trade and certainly more recently clearly states "Own transport + tools essential"

Bruthal

Electrical work is a mugs game especially in recent years, nothing more. It can be very skilled, and im sure plenty of sparks believe they are great at it, but its still a mugs game, probably made worse by the boom years. Like i said earlier, if a supermarket shelf stacking job and an electrical job had the same rate, who would want to do the electrical? I wouldnt anyway. Also a local supermarket job at €10 an hour would be better than an electrical one at €12.50 an hour with 20 miles driving to it.

.G.

Me neither.

beanie10

superg wrote: »

Regardless of when you went into business the REA existed and its terms were clear,you can't cry foul now just cos its face no longer fits.I've acknowledged the need for reasonable change to it but thats not the whole argument as I have already pointed out.Thanks for doing the usual and focussing on the money an employee is earning rather than the other valid points in my argument.Its not all about what we earn,far from it.Its all our fault you're struggling don't you know.NECI and their mates should be celebrating each time one of their competitors goes to the wall,instead they whine like banshee's and spout that the only way to save the world is to slash and burn on wages,One eyed view IMO but I expect nothing less from contractor's

whos blaming the employees? Nobody in this thread has blamed employees. If you read my posts I clearly lay the blame on the recession and too many electricians and not enough work. You are looking for a contractor/employee based argument where one doesnt exist.
My point is in this recession where business is down 50% €30 an hour has to cover alot of costs inc rising insurance and fuel. In boom times electricians wages were 40% of contractors hourly charge(€22.00 per hour employee €55 per hour contractor). If the same reasoning is used today where the contractor is getting €30 an hour, the employee gets €12 an hour. An employee is doing well to get that as costs are higher today compared to 5 years ago. Running cost are not "business expenses" that mean nothing, it has to be covered in the €30 an hour.
If you are not happy with one eyed contractors go get a job in a supermarket, you probably find a way to give out about the bosses there.

Doom

Well if the rate is that low all the good electricans will leave the trade, and watch the quality drop and house fires increase

Bruthal

beanie10 wrote: »

If you are not happy with one eyed contractors go get a job in a supermarket, you probably find a way to give out about the bosses there.

Im not disagreeing with your comments, but a €10 an hour job in the local supermarket would be better than a €12 an hour site 20 miles away. An electrical job might be seen as above a supermarket checkout personel job, but once the wages are on a par, its no better.

As for giving out about bosses, is there anyone that doesnt?