Ivan Yates & British soccer

Rebelheart

For years I have listened to Newstalk in the morning, switching between it, Morning Ireland and, in pre Marty Whelan days, Lyric FM.

It has been a serious current affairs programme with serious contributions about the economy. It is a quality competitor to Morning Ireland (which is a superb programme). Ivan Yates has always come across as both a charmer and a plámáser - two rare qualities for a party full of obnoxious Blueshirt law-and-order types. The Chris lad makes plenty of mistakes but I think it's cool that they are keeping a young unknown guy on (he's improving all the time).

In recent weeks/months, however, Ivan Yates has started to destroy his own show by his incessant talk about the toings and froings of his favourite British soccer team. Either Yates has suddenly developed a love for soccer, or he has sat down with people in Newstalk and decided it would be a positive move to take up that persona on his show. I suspect it's the latter. Most people in Ireland have no interest in soccer, never mind British soccer. I, for one, endeavour to change the channel at the very mention of the latest soccer news. After Morning Ireland goes at 9am, however, there is no current affairs choice other than Newstalk.

Why is Yates trying to reduce the quality of his otherwise high quality serious show and alienate those of us who are repelled by the incessant tabloid dross that is the latest soccer news from Britain?

Rubik.

I think you are seriously underestimating the interest in "british soccer" here in Ireland. The GAA ban on garrison games was removed 40 years ago. As for Yates, he supports Man. City and sometimes jokes around with Oisin Langan about it - no big deal.

dvpower

Rebelheart wrote: »

Most people in Ireland have no interest in soccer, never mind British soccer.

That's news to me.

Teyla Emmagan

I don't think it's a new Newstalk policy - he's just a Man City fan and they won some big match at the weekend (for the first time in living memory or something - zero interest in soccer myself). He'll shut up again about it now.

I've been listening to that show since David McWilliams did it. Love Ivan Yates though, he's a really interesting guy. He's a world class sh(t stirrer, but also well able to take it if he's been handing it out. Great listening!

COYW

Rebelheart wrote: »

Most people in Ireland have no interest in soccer, never mind British soccer.

Take a trip up to Dublin port or Dublin airport on any premier league weekend and you will see that this is not the case.

LordSutch

Rebelheart wrote: »

Ivan Yates & British soccer

We tend to call it football.

_blank_

Rebelheart wrote: »

Most people in Ireland have no interest in soccer, never mind British soccer.

What?

Soccer is the biggest participatory team sport in the country, outranking both Gaelic Football & Hurling and Rugby.

to say Irish people have no interest in it is ridiculous, where are you pulling it from?

I agree with you though, this interest of Ivan's is hugely contrived. As are most things on Newstalk.

MagicMarker

*looks at OP's username*

This will not end well...

jimmycrackcorm

Once the FA final is over I'm sure it will be another 30 years or so before he gets another chance to blag about it.

Cionád

Derry City and Celtic are my favourite British soccer teams.

Einhard

Rebelheart wrote: »

Why is Yates trying to reduce the quality of his otherwise high quality serious show and alienate those of us who are repelled by the incessant tabloid dross that is the latest soccer news from Britain?

Don't listen to the show, so can't comment on his football related banter, but what do you consider "tabloid dross"? If he discusses the personal lives of the players and the excesses of their WAGs, then fair enough, but if it's the actual matches, and scores, he talks about, I fail to see how that could be so termed.

SEPT 23 1989

As a Manchester City supporter who loves the game of football it was great to hear Ivan playing "Blue Moon" at 7a.m on Monday morning to celebrate the win over Utd on Saturday,as far as i know he is a lifelong blue and he makes that known on his show which makes a change from the fawning over Utd that goes on by the media in this country

Well done Ivan keep winding them up

tbh

Rebelheart wrote: »

Ivan Yates has always come across as both a charmer and a plámáser - two rare qualities for a party full of obnoxious Blueshirt law-and-order types.

stopped reading here, tho I'm sure the rest of the post was quality.

Fran1985

Newstalk have put a lot of time and energy into their sports, especially in the last 12 months or so and its sounding great. Live premier league games, with their own commentators instead of taking the 5 live feed like they used to. Live Heineken Cup games too, Off The Ball - still unrivaled. One or 2 weak links that will be replaced in time i'm sure but they have to be commended for that.

And with all this extra push on sports since Ger Gilroy took up the head of sport position, its only right that the presenters on the other shows, show some sort of interest in what it probably costing the station a fortune.

However, if i worked for Newtalk and got Ivan Yates in the secret santa at the end of the year, i'd put him down for some comedy classes because that man needs some new material ASAP. His jokes are very repetitive and his comments on football are more in disappointment that Man City, after spending 150m on new players last year alone, have only gained 3 points on Spurs, who spent less than half that, in the league. We'll see what has to say when the billionaire owner gets bored of putting money into them for no return and sells the club leaving them with massive debts. he'll quiet down then

LordSutch

Cionád wrote: »

Derry City and Celtic are my favourite British soccer teams.

And Rangers and Chelsea are my favouite British football teams

telekon

OP: have you been introduced to Ghiertal yet? He resides in the Tubridy thread.

Cole

Rebelheart wrote: »

The Chris lad makes plenty of mistakes but I think it's cool that they are keeping a young unknown guy on (he's improving all the time)

Why does this always come up

Chris has been with Newstalk for 7 years and has plenty of experience behind him.

irishh_bob

Rebelheart wrote: »

For years I have listened to Newstalk in the morning, switching between it, Morning Ireland and, in pre Marty Whelan days, Lyric FM.

It has been a serious current affairs programme with serious contributions about the economy. It is a quality competitor to Morning Ireland (which is a superb programme). Ivan Yates has always come across as both a charmer and a plámáser - two rare qualities for a party full of obnoxious Blueshirt law-and-order types. The Chris lad makes plenty of mistakes but I think it's cool that they are keeping a young unknown guy on (he's improving all the time).

In recent weeks/months, however, Ivan Yates has started to destroy his own show by his incessant talk about the toings and froings of his favourite British soccer team. Either Yates has suddenly developed a love for soccer, or he has sat down with people in Newstalk and decided it would be a positive move to take up that persona on his show. I suspect it's the latter. Most people in Ireland have no interest in soccer, never mind British soccer. I, for one, endeavour to change the channel at the very mention of the latest soccer news. After Morning Ireland goes at 9am, however, there is no current affairs choice other than Newstalk.

Why is Yates trying to reduce the quality of his otherwise high quality serious show and alienate those of us who are repelled by the incessant tabloid dross that is the latest soccer news from Britain?

what the hell are you talking about , soccer is huge in ireland and the 2nd most popular sport after GAA

Oh_Noes

I agree with you to an extent OP, I think their show would be much better served if they kept it more along serious lines and didn't encourage "Ivan the character". Personally I find him to be a bit of a slimeball and not a particularly good broadcaster, even down to his voice being uneasy on the ear.

I'm not sure what to say about Chris O'Donoghue, he seems to be a fairly stock news presenter. Whatever he brings to the programme will always just seem to me to be drowned out by the "Ivan and a sidekick" situation they have going on. It's like their partnership is a junior/senior one which I don't think works. I found Gilroy and Byrne much better as a partnership and much more professional.

It may be unpopular but I find a grown man to be such an ardent fan of a soccer team in a different country a ludicris idea but I know that's not a reflection on society so I won't bang on about it. Pat Kenny's Manchester United thing seems childish to me too.

It's probably the weak link in Newstalk's schedule, I would be happy to leave it on that station all day otherwise.

Skid

Rebelheart wrote: »

Most people in Ireland have no interest in soccer, never mind British soccer.

Quote of the Year?

LordSutch

Looks like Rebelheart just lit the fuse & ran . . .

_blank_

irishh_bob wrote: »

what the hell are you talking about , soccer is huge in ireland and the 2nd most popular sport after GAA

Incorrect, Soccer is the biggest participatory team sport in Ireland

ESRI Survey - Page 22 (This is a link to a PDF)

irishh_bob

Des wrote: »

Incorrect, Soccer is the biggest participatory team sport in Ireland

ESRI Survey - Page 22 (This is a link to a PDF)

surverys are released several times a day , i give little heed to any of them

outside the citys , GAA dwarfs every other sport

ps , i perfer soccer btw

MagicMarker

irishh_bob wrote: »

surverys are released several times a day , i give little heed to any of them

outside the citys , GAA dwarfs every other sport

ps , i perfer soccer btw

Outside the cities? As in outside the most densely populated areas in the country?

yosser hughes

British soccer is the most watched sport albet on telly in Ireland.Armchair.barstool glory hunters.It's pathetic but true.These people are customers buying a product.It has very little to do with sport.
They pick a team usually a sucessful one and proceed tocall themselves supporters referring to themselves as "we" when referring to the team.
English people that actually come from the cities their team is refer to these people as day-trippers. Glad to take the money but little respect there.
Yates banter about it is annoying in the extreme.

Fran1985

yosser hughes wrote: »

British soccer is the most watched sport albet on telly in Ireland.Armchair.barstool glory hunters.It's pathetic but true.These people are customers buying a product.It has very little to do with sport.

What are you talking about, little to do with sport? It is actually 100% to do with sport. nonsense comment number 1

yosser hughes wrote: »

English people that actually come from the cities their team is refer to these people as day-trippers. Glad to take the money but little respect there.

Nonsense comment number 2
What about the people who travel over once a month, sometimes more to see these teams? pay thousands per year for season tickets let alone flights? If people where paying that much to come over to support my club and spend their money in my city, i'd have plenty of respect for all of them. But you seemed well researched so maybe you could prove your point with a few stats. Should i hold my breathe? You've absolutely no idea what you're talking about there at all nor is it anything to do with the original post, bar your one line at the end.

Caledonman

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

I don't think it's a new Newstalk policy - he's just a Man City fan and they won some big match at the weekend (for the first time in living memory or something - zero interest in soccer myself). He'll shut up again about it now.

I've been listening to that show since David McWilliams did it. Love Ivan Yates though, he's a really interesting guy. He's a world class sh(t stirrer, but also well able to take it if he's been handing it out. Great listening!

I agree with you. He loves stirring it up, with the digs to his co presenter, man united fans, women and so on. I personally don't see the harm in what he is doing. There are enough boring presenters out there and I don't find Ivan boring. He has come a long way, but will he stay long term
with such an early shift

Rebelheart

dvpower wrote: »

That's news to me.

COYW wrote: »

Take a trip up to Dublin port or Dublin airport on any premier league weekend and you will see that this is not the case.

Des wrote: »

What?

Soccer is the biggest participatory team sport in the country, outranking both Gaelic Football & Hurling and Rugby.

to say Irish people have no interest in it is ridiculous, where are you pulling it from?

I agree with you though, this interest of Ivan's is hugely contrived. As are most things on Newstalk.

irishh_bob wrote: »

what the hell are you talking about , soccer is huge in ireland

SkidMark wrote: »

Quote of the Year?

Well done on all missing the point lads. But let's go.

You are all gloriously and indisputably wrong. Because you and a few of your friends meet up with people who share your interest in an airport or port does not, under any rational definition, make your interest a majority interest. If you step beyond your group, you'll discover a far bigger world of people who have no interest whatsoever in your predilections. Soccer is by any rational understanding of the words 'majority' and 'minority' - English dictionary here - a minority interest in Ireland. To prove otherwise you need to show TV viewing figures where half of the state's population of 4.5million follows the sport or show figures where over half of the same 4.5million are actively playing that sport. Indeed, as for sporting attendance the GAA has far and away much more people attending its games than soccer ever has had - in 2009 over 1.5 million people attended its matches. Even that is far from a majority interest (Reminder: what's the population of Ireland?). And are some of you trying to claim over 1.5 million people leave this country to attend soccer matches in Britain?

Now, until any of you can show that "most people" in this state's population of 4.5 million people follow British soccer (or any soccer) it would seem you should spend more time improving your understanding of English and less time watching the Garrison Business Game.

Rebelheart

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

As a Manchester City supporter who loves the game of football it was great to hear Ivan playing "Blue Moon" at 7a.m on Monday morning to celebrate the win over Utd on Saturday,as far as i know he is a lifelong blue and he makes that known on his show which makes a change from the fawning over Utd that goes on by the media in this country

Well done Ivan keep winding them up

1. If you want that, you have plenty of sports programmes. For the vast majority of people this saturation coverage of soccer is overbearing and utterly boring when it's on a serious current affairs programme. That's the relevant point to this thread.

2. Some of you seem to have embraced the English definition of soccer as football. This is just a new Irish fashion embraced by those who now have Sky Sports and access to other British television stations. People anxious to be fashionable and fit in, people without their own independence of mind.

Indeed, referring to soccer as "football" is a relatively new phenomenon in Britain itself. It was only in 1863 that what you call "football" was invented when rules were formulated which abolished use of the hands while playing. The most famous of the known "football" types in England prior to this was the Cambridge Rules which allowed use of the hands.

Disputes about what was football led to a split between "footballers" in the 1860s and 1870s with two different organisations being established: the Football Association and the Rugby Football Association, and to distinguish between both the latter termed the former 'soccer' and the former termed the latter 'rugby'.

Given this very pluralist background to "football", I always find these people who insist that soccer has a monopoly on the use of the word "football" to be historically ignorant, and insecure in their interest in the game. People genuinely interested in sport wouldn't get hung up on it and would just accept that what they call football is what most people in the English speaking world call soccer.

Rebelheart

LordSutch wrote: »

We tend to call it football.

With all due respect, Camelot/Lord Sutch, in the many British "poppy" threads, you are also on record as calling the Irish who have fought for Irish freedom throughout the centuries "terrorists", for glorifying those who fought for the British Empire even when they were murdering Irish people and generally supporting anything else which lauds your fellow British.

I wouldn't expect you to call soccer by anything other than what British people call it. In fact, I'd be deeply disappointed if you started taking the soup on Irish issues at this late stage of your life.

cc

all those people in work who I talk to about British football (and Spanish and others leagues too if that helps to calm your 'Rebelheart') must be figments of my imagination.

Rebelheart

Fran1985 wrote: »

What are you talking about, little to do with sport? It is actually 100% to do with sport. nonsense comment number 1

Nonsense comment number 1: It isn't. Professional British soccer as shown on TV is about incessant hype. It's about media saturation. It's about the goings-on of certain soccer players and their wives/girlfriends. It's about professional wafflers going on about nonsense and pretending to be passionate about it to the plebs watching. It's as fake as it comes. It's about (alleged) personal issues between managers and players. It's about invented and contrived "disagreements" played out in the media in order to strengthen financial interests within the business that is soccer. And much else which is totally unconnected to sport and everything to do with business.

Lads (and lassies) going out and playing for the love of a game in rain, hail or snow for no money - now that's about sport.

Rebelheart

Des wrote: »

Incorrect, Soccer is the biggest participatory team sport in Ireland

ESRI Survey - Page 22 (This is a link to a PDF)

Yes, with a massive 7% of the population. - so much for all that outrage about my saying that "most people in Ireland" have no interest in Yates going on about soccer. Furthermore, it's only the "biggest participatory team sport" because the GAA's sports are divided among at least four team sports. Furthermore still, the GAA has far more members than all soccer clubs combined have, with membership consistently around the 1 million mark for the GAA.

Anyway, I'm still waiting for you all to give statistics that most people in Ireland are interested in the British soccer that Yates is rabbiting on about these days.

Fran1985

Rebelheart wrote: »

Lads (and lassies) going out and playing for the love of a game in rain, hail or snow for no money - now that's about sport.

yes, and to bother getting up and going out and playing for the love of a game in rain hail or snow for no money, would lead me and most rational people to believe they have a great interest in the sport, no?? because i know feck all people who'd get up and put themselves through all that for no reason. Their interest is then furthered on to people they admire and aspire to be like, and i'm not talking about people in the next division, i'm talking top of their game ie the United's and Chelsea's of this world. Also most football fans don't give a monkey's about Wags, however some football fans also share an interest in show biz stories, which now, like it or not, includes footballers.

It's like someone interested in radio (trying to keep this post related to radio because the thread has taken a turn and unfortunately that means a lock smith will be along shortly) you don't sit around while broadcasting on community radio and only listen to your station, ya go and listen to the Chris Moyles' and Chris Evans' of this world to see what they're doing to get 8 million listeners and ya work with that.

Rebelheart

cc wrote: »

all those people in work who I talk to about British football (and Spanish and others leagues too if that helps to calm your 'Rebelheart') must be figments of my imagination.

And why would that be? Because they constitute the majority of the population of Ireland that I said has no interest whatsoever in Yates going on about the latest toings and froings in British soccer?

Please do explain.

Rebelheart

Fran1985 wrote: »

yes, and to bother getting up and going out and playing for the love of a game in rain hail or snow for no money, would lead me and most rational people to believe they have a great interest in the sport, no??[/url]

Yes, obviously. Does this mean that they are "most people in Ireland"?
Nope. So, what's your point?

This is the point I made which you all went off the subject to attack, but have all failed to show that most people in Ireland follow British soccer. They don't, and they never have.


It's like someone interested in radio (trying to keep this post related to radio because the thread has taken a turn and unfortunately that means a lock smith will be along shortly) you don't sit around while broadcasting on community radio and only listen to your station, ya go and listen to the Chris Moyles' and Chris Evans' of this world to see what they're doing to get 8 million listeners and ya work with that.

Whatever about that my original point stands: Newstalk had a serious current affairs alternative to Morning Ireland, and a monopoly on Irish current affairs broadcasting from 9am until 10am. By incessantly going on about the latest goings-on in British soccer, Ivan is alienating the huge number of people who 1) have no interest whatever in sport or soccer, and 2) who try to avoid the soccer saturation and soccer commercialism which marks far, far too many media outlets today.

There are sports programmes for all of that. Keep such topics there, and keep us current affairs junkies with our serious programme on Newstalk. Sin é.

tbh

Why dont you use that dictionary link you provided and look up the actual meaning of the word "incessantly".

Rebelheart

tbh wrote: »

Why dont you use that dictionary link you provided and look up the actual meaning of the word "incessantly".

Judging others by your own evidently lower standards is not a good idea. Why don't you contribute something more substantial to the thread or else troll somewhere else. Thank you.

irishh_bob

MagicMarker wrote: »

Outside the cities? As in outside the most densely populated areas in the country?

ireland is still a rural country , most people live outside the citys

Fran1985

Rebelheart wrote: »

Whatever about that my original point stands: Newstalk had a serious current affairs alternative to Morning Ireland, and a monopoly on Irish current affairs broadcasting from 9am until 10am. By incessantly going on about the latest goings-on in British soccer, Ivan is alienating the huge number of people who 1) have no interest whatever in sport or soccer, and 2) who try to avoid the soccer saturation and soccer commercialism which marks far, far too many media outlets today.

There are sports programmes for all of that. Keep such topics there, and keep us current affairs junkies with our serious programme on Newstalk. Sin é.

No you're talking sense, i knew you'd get there in the end. But it must be pointed out, that if people were tuning away from sport on the radio and TV, do you think stations would still run with it? I hate tacky show biz stories, but stations, particularly youth stations, run with them because figures tell them that people are enjoying it. Who am i to say they shouldn't broadcast this because me and my friends and a lot of people i now don't like it? The figures bring in the €€€'s therefore if it works, don't fix it. Same goes for sport and in particular sport which obviously attracts a big crowd.

However when it comes to Ivans constant going on about it, i'm in your corner for that one. Head wrecking and a thing he's latched onto it over the past month or so. So much so, i've timed my shower around the sports news, because i cant bear to listen to him talking in a condesending tone and manner to Oisin on sport. On that note, Oisin is a journalist paid to give the facts, not his opinion, so he should avoid this. A great example of this is Cian on Off The Ball, who comes on gives the sport news, avoids chitter chatter, which i'd imagine he'd like to get in on (maybe not which is also fine), and then leaves.

irishh_bob

Rebelheart wrote: »

With all due respect, Camelot/Lord Sutch, in the many British "poppy" threads, you are also on record as calling the Irish who have fought for Irish freedom throughout the centuries "terrorists", for glorifying those who fought for the British Empire even when they were murdering Irish people and generally supporting anything else which lauds your fellow British.

I wouldn't expect you to call soccer by anything other than what British people call it. In fact, I'd be deeply disappointed if you started taking the soup on Irish issues at this late stage of your life.

you know what you sound like , a NAFF nationalist

yosser hughes

Fran1985 wrote: »

What are you talking about, little to do with sport? It is actually 100% to do with sport. nonsense comment number 1

Watching English football teams on the telly or even going over the odd time has little to do with sport.It's showbusiness,hype and just a business at this stage.You're one of the mugs paying for it all. I don't expect you to understand:)


Nonsense comment number 2
What about the people who travel over once a month, sometimes more to see these teams? pay thousands per year for season tickets let alone flights? If people where paying that much to come over to support my club and spend their money in my city, i'd have plenty of respect for all of them. But you seemed well researched so maybe you could prove your point with a few stats. Should i hold my breathe? You've absolutely no idea what you're talking about there at all nor is it anything to do with the original post, bar your one line at the end.

They are all mugs,just buying a product and with regard to the OP,Ivan Yates is just part of it,chit -chatting about the product keeps mugs like yourself interested. It's pathetic.
Sport is about being involved,playing it,coaching or supporting your community.That's what football clubs were set up for in the first place.We will get to the point where a huge amount of football "supporters" will never have actually seen "their" team play live. When it's in another country,that's understandable. Do you consider yourself different to a "supporter" in China or South Korea? I bet you do.:D

bigjohnny80

That Oisin lad is awful btw.

Yates goes on a bit but it's nice to hear at least one person not fawning over utd.

Fran1985

yosser hughes wrote: »

They are all mugs,just buying a product and with regard to the OP,Ivan Yates is just part of it,chit chatting about the product keeps mugs like yourself interested. It's pathetic.
Sport is about being involved,playing it,coaching or supporting your community.That's what football clubs were setup for in the first place.We will get to the point where a huge amoint of football "supporters" will never have actually seen "their" team play live. When it's in another country,that's understndable. Do you consider yourself different to a "supporter" in China or South Korea? I bet you do.:D

and who are you to tell me i'm a mug for being interested in something???? As i said earlier, sport on radio obviously works or Newstalk and RTE wouldn't put so much time and effort into buying broadcast rights to different games. This is a numbers game, and if they're not going in the right direction it'll be dropped.

As for the other point do you know me? Would you tell me in what way running teenage disco's for free, for my local club, which results in me missing out on a paid gig, not to mention my friday nights, is not getting involved in my club? and paying my membership every year to keep the club running is not getting involved?

Clear off and take your high horse and ill informed comments elsewhere

bbability

Ok folks calm it down get back on topic or I'll close the thread.

yosser hughes

Fran1985 wrote: »

and who are you to tell me i'm a mug for being interested in something???? As i said earlier, sport on radio obviously works or Newstalk and RTE wouldn't put so much time and effort into buying broadcast rights to different games. This is a numbers game, and if they're not going in the right direction it'll be dropped.

As for the other point do you know me? Would you tell me in what way running teenage disco's for free, for my local club, which results in me missing out on a paid gig, not to mention my friday nights, is not getting involved in my club? and paying my membership every year to keep the club running is not getting involved?

Clear off and take your high horse and ill informed comments elsewhere

Your efforts with you club are laudable well done! But you know very well that's not what we are talking about. "Following" or "Supporting" a football team from another country, has little to do with sport. By contributing to it,buying a jersey,sky sports or whatever,you are paying for it all.You are signing the wage cheques for Ashley Cole,Wayne Rooney,Steven Gerard et al. In that sense then yes,you are a mug.:)

MagicMarker

irishh_bob wrote: »

ireland is still a rural country , most people live outside the citys

Please me you're joking.

tbh

Rebelheart wrote: »

Judging others by your own evidently lower standards is not a good idea. Why don't you contribute something more substantial to the thread or else troll somewhere else. Thank you.

Yeah thought so - you patronise others and bleat on about literal interpretations of statistics, but when your own pathetic hyperbole is reflected back at you, you resort to calling troll. There's a troll on this thread all right, but it's not me.

Wolfe Tone

If they suddenly started talking politics/current affairs in the middle of a sports show I would be pretty browned off.

bbability

Yosser Hughes banned for 7 days. Anyone else like a ban by all means....

Final warning I will close this thread if it continues to go off topic

Lapin

bbability wrote: »

I will close this thread if it continues to go off topic

With a comment like this....

Rebelheart wrote: »

Most people in Ireland have no interest in soccer, never mind British soccer.

....the thread was always heading for a derailment of Tay Bridge proportions.
(And I reckon the OP knew that too).



As for the "Topic", I don't see the harm in Yates having a bit of banter about Man City. It is coming up to the climax of the season after all and it looks set to be an exciting finish.
The fact that most people in Ireland don't play soccer or travel to games in the UK every week doesn't mean they don't have a passing interest in the Premier League.

It doesn't interfere with the news coverage and as long as Ivan can gloat about Man City, he's leaving poor Chris alone !