Hybrid bike for the daily commute

wannabe7a

My first thread.

I will stop taking the bus and join the btw scheme. I have been lookin at some bikes last week and saw the likes of the following:
-Form Joule - bit thin tyres
-Felt xcity 2 (30% discount) but has internal 8 gear hub
-Trek 7.0 - entry model

I cannot make up my mind between speed, low maintenance and price.

blorg

Internal gears are a good idea for a commuter, I think I'd go for the Felt especially if it's discounted.

studiorat

a cannondale perhaps?

wannabe7a

probably will give the felt a test ride but was not sure about the heaviest gear. How would gear 1 of an internal hub compare to gear 1 of the usual derairlleur?

I haven't seen any cannondale so far so dont know about any models.

ccull123

what is the distance of ur commute?

studiorat

wannabe7a wrote: »

I haven't seen any cannondale so far so dont know about any models.

cycleways on parnell st. did you see the one in the link?

wannabe7a

my commute is 22k per day so 110k per week. For me that is steep enough

I test cycled a couple of times with my crappy old squeeky, gears broken, breaks broken mtb. But I still enjoyed it. I had the pleasure last week to borrow the road bike of my girlfriend. Of course that was of another dimension but I am not fond of punctured tyres. I know they say you can get better tyres to reduce the chance but still ... So that's why a hybrid sounds not too bad to me. Even though I never had a hybrid before. But then again, I see a good few professional looking bike commuters and they all seem to be alright with their road bikees. As you can see: I'm still in limbo.

I might check out parnell street for the cannondales. Thanx.

wannabe7a

studiorat wrote: »

cycleways on parnell st. did you see the one in the link?

check out their website but they dont seem to have any cannondale bikes!

tomasrojo

Punctures are a bigger deal with hub gears, but apart from that I think they're great for a commuter.

droidus

Cycleways will have the cannondale, just ring them or go in. Be warned though, other than the alfine hub and disc brakes, its not the most practical of bikes.

SuiteCheex

wannabe7a wrote: »

check out their website but they dont seem to have any cannondale bikes!

I bought this Cannondale Badboy from the Cycleways lads back in 2004:



It's an absolute workhorse!! My commute for the last 15 months or so has been broadly similar to yourself (30km per day but I rarely do the full 5 days) and the Cannondale makes the journey an absolute pleasure. If you look at the cycle couriers around town, those that aren't on fixies generally seem to be on the Badboy.

Don't let punctures worry you, just accept they will happen and carry a spare tube (much easier to put in a new tube than use a repair kit on the side of the road, but don't forget to remove the glass from the tyre!), pump and tyre levers with you at all times. In the past 15 months I've had 3 punctures and they were all in the space of 2 weeks!! :rolleyes:

The thing is, you need the skinny tyres when you're commuting....less contact with the road means you go faster. Also, I recommend you invest in a set of SPD pedals and shoes....it'll make your life a helluva lot easier, especially when you get to the end of the week and your legs are running on empty!

wannabe7a

tomasrojo wrote: »

Punctures are a bigger deal with hub gears, but apart from that I think they're great for a commuter.

In the shop they told me it was easy to take out the wheel of the bike with the hub gears. Hmmm, not sure if I can believe the sales guy then.

wannabe7a

droidus wrote: »

Cycleways will have the cannondale, just ring them or go in. Be warned though, other than the alfine hub and disc brakes, its not the most practical of bikes.

why not practical. One of the guys in this thread is raving about the bad boy!

wannabe7a

SuiteCheex wrote: »

I bought this Cannondale Badboy from the Cycleways lads back in 2004:



It's an absolute workhorse!! My commute for the last 15 months or so has been broadly similar to yourself (30km per day but I rarely do the full 5 days) and the Cannondale makes the journey an absolute pleasure. If you look at the cycle couriers around town, those that aren't on fixies generally seem to be on the Badboy.

Don't let punctures worry you, just accept they will happen and carry a spare tube (much easier to put in a new tube than use a repair kit on the side of the road, but don't forget to remove the glass from the tyre!), pump and tyre levers with you at all times. In the past 15 months I've had 3 punctures and they were all in the space of 2 weeks!! :rolleyes:

The thing is, you need the skinny tyres when you're commuting....less contact with the road means you go faster. Also, I recommend you invest in a set of SPD pedals and shoes....it'll make your life a helluva lot easier, especially when you get to the end of the week and your legs are running on empty!

If thin tyres are required then the following does seem to follow the speed rules :cool: :

http://www.fitzcycles.ie/products.php?product=Forme-Joule-City-Bike

ciotog

tomasrojo wrote: »

Punctures are a bigger deal with hub gears, but apart from that I think they're great for a commuter.

Not sure why you say that. Perhaps when there's a roller brake fitted so that you have to loosen that assembly from the frame to be able to take out the wheel. However the bike mentioned here doesn't have that issue. Hub gears are awesome (not that I'm a huge fan or anything)

tomasrojo

ciotog wrote: »

Not sure why you say that. Perhaps when there's a roller brake fitted so that you have to loosen that assembly from the frame to be able to take out the wheel. However the bike mentioned here doesn't have that issue. Hub gears are awesome (not that I'm a huge fan or anything)

Ah, it's just that you have an extra few things to undo and set aside and not lose. I suppose my view is coloured a little by the fact that my experience of fixing rear punctures on a hub-geared bike is with a Brompton, which has the added hassle of a chain tensioner.

Not that big a deal, but a slower process than removing a wheel on a derailleur bike.

(Of course, you can patch the puncture in situ, but in the end I personally found it easier just to replace the tube and patch the punctured tube at home.)

droidus

The Bad Boy 8 is the one with hub gears. Its got discs as well, so its a bit of a PITA to take the wheel off, but not that difficult. No chain tensioner.

On the plus side, you can change the front tube and tyre without removing the wheel.

ciotog

tomasrojo wrote: »

Ah, it's just that you have an extra few things to undo and set aside and not lose. I suppose my view is coloured a little by the fact that my experience of fixing rear punctures on a hub-geared bike is with a Brompton, which has the added hassle of a chain tensioner.

Not that big a deal, but a slower process than removing a wheel on a derailleur bike.

(Of course, you can patch the puncture in situ, but in the end I personally found it easier just to replace the tube and patch the punctured tube at home.)

I have a Kona Dr. Good and had that joy of difficulty with the rear wheel until I discovered a screw with a nut on the end, tucked away. Naturally, not until a decent amount of rounding of said screwhead had been done

BostonB

ciotog wrote: »

Not sure why you say that. Perhaps when there's a roller brake fitted so that you have to loosen that assembly from the frame to be able to take out the wheel. However the bike mentioned here doesn't have that issue. Hub gears are awesome (not that I'm a huge fan or anything)

How do you change the back wheel on the bike mentioned?

wannabe7a

tomasrojo wrote: »

Ah, it's just that you have an extra few things to undo and set aside and not lose. I suppose my view is coloured a little by the fact that my experience of fixing rear punctures on a hub-geared bike is with a Brompton, which has the added hassle of a chain tensioner.

Not that big a deal, but a slower process than removing a wheel on a derailleur bike.

(Of course, you can patch the puncture in situ, but in the end I personally found it easier just to replace the tube and patch the punctured tube at home.)

I was speaking to the guy of my local bike shop. He was not very fond of internal gear hubs from his experience. Just wondering now: how much more expensive would it be to get an internal gear hub replaced compared to the classic derailleur?

wannabe7a

droidus wrote: »

The Bad Boy 8 is the one with hub gears. Its got discs as well, so its a bit of a PITA to take the wheel off, but not that difficult. No chain tensioner.

On the plus side, you can change the front tube and tyre without removing the wheel.

Is there a magic button :P

tomasrojo

wannabe7a wrote: »

Is there a magic button :P

Or is there just one fork blade?

tomasrojo

wannabe7a wrote: »

I was speaking to the guy of my local bike shop. He was not very fond of internal gear hubs from his experience. Just wondering now: how much more expensive would it be to get an internal gear hub replaced compared to the classic derailleur?

They're expensive to replace, but when well-maintained will almost never need replacing. That's the legend anyway. In the context of hub gears, "well-maintanined" really just means properly adjusted so the gear transitions are accurate, and oiled occasionally once the initial grease is worn out.

Three-speed hub gears are very well understood and most shops can service them when required. When they start making noise, you can run thin oil into them and flush the old grease or oil out. I've yet to do any of this, but it's what most people say, and The Brompton Bicycle book reiterates it.

wannabe7a

tomasrojo wrote: »

They're expensive to replace, but when well-maintained will almost never need replacing. That's the legend anyway. In the context of hub gears, "well-maintanined" really just means properly adjusted so the gear transitions are accurate, and oiled occasionally once the initial grease is worn out.

Three-speed hub gears are very well understood and most shops can service them when required. When they start making noise, you can run thin oil into them and flush the old grease or oil out. I've yet to do any of this, but it's what most people say, and The Brompton Bicycle book reiterates it.

I am from Holland and I can remember some bikes had this three speed hub gear; not for the Dutch mountains! These hub gears did'nt always work on the older bikes. 8 speed was never heard of, but that was in the last century. Can you imagine how old I am :eek:

droidus

tomasrojo wrote: »

Or is there just one fork blade?

Bingo.

droidus

wannabe7a wrote: »

I was speaking to the guy of my local bike shop. He was not very fond of internal gear hubs from his experience. Just wondering now: how much more expensive would it be to get an internal gear hub replaced compared to the classic derailleur?

It would be considerably more expensive BUT, it shouldn't ever happen. Id say go with an alfine hub, or if you can afford it, a Rohloff.

Theres plenty of hub gear options these days btw. Some here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=68967410

tomasrojo

wannabe7a wrote: »

I am from Holland and I can remember some bikes had this three speed hub gear; not for the Dutch mountains! These hub gears did'nt always work on the older bikes. 8 speed was never heard of, but that was in the last century. Can you imagine how old I am :eek:

I have, as I said, a three-speed hub on my folding Brompton bike. I can well imagine that three-speed hubs are not great for mountains, but I have cycled up Killiney hill on the Brompton with front-mounted luggage and a guitar and hard case on my back, so they're ok for steep hills!

wannabe7a

droidus wrote: »

Bingo.

:cool: I never thought of a bike with actually one fork. Halleluja for changing the tube/tyre. But on the other hand: I would not be on this bad boy going downhill and the fork snaps. oooch.

BostonB

wannabe7a wrote: »

:cool: I never thought of a bike with actually one fork. Halleluja for changing the tube/tyre. But on the other hand: I would not be on this bad boy going downhill and the fork snaps. oooch.

If you watch this, I think on of the guys has a one fork bike.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056243775

BostonB

tomasrojo wrote: »

Or is there just one fork blade?

Not on the rear AFAIK.

wannabe7a

BostonB wrote: »

If you watch this, I think on of the guys has a one fork bike.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056243775

did not watch the whole movie. Its way longer than the usual youtube. Looks great. Noticed that one was sponsored by cannondale, but I could not see the one fork magic. Impressive anyway that roadtrip.

But I realized that all together I will be doing around 4000 km a year with my commute. So that will leave out the entry hybrid bikes. But will not going for a mountain bike. Too slow if you have to cycle everyday.

blorg

You should probably get a road bike. They don't puncture any more than hybrids as long as you keep the tyres inflated to the correct pressure. If you want to run wider tyres for load carrying get a tourer or cyclocross bike. The occasional puncture is not that big a deal, once you are used to fixing them it is a 5-10 minute job. I certainly wouldn't be avoiding a much better ride for risk of the odd puncture.

wannabe7a

blorg wrote: »

You should probably get a road bike. They don't puncture any more than hybrids as long as you keep the tyres inflated to the correct pressure. If you want to run wider tyres for load carrying get a tourer or cyclocross bike. The occasional puncture is not that big a deal, once you are used to fixing them it is a 5-10 minute job. I certainly wouldn't be avoiding a much better ride for risk of the odd puncture.

Loading will be part of the functionality of my bike but limited to some clothes and sport equipment. Never thought of tourer's, though a friend of mine has one. But he is cycling around with that for holidays. Did not come across cyclocross bikes. I will check it out.

BostonB

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081116080311AAmFwH3
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/225984-new-bike-cyclocross-vs-touring

wannabe7a

BostonB wrote: »

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081116080311AAmFwH3
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/225984-new-bike-cyclocross-vs-touring

In summary:
cyclocross bikes are for racing. Panniers and mudguards are not meant to be mounted on these bikes.

For me this means they won't be suited for the commute.

blorg

It is not that straightforward at all. I have (had) three cyclocross frames.

My cross race bike, a Kinesis Evo3, is indeed built only for racing. Never mind no rack/mudguards mounts, it doesn't even have mounts for bottle cages (they get in the way carrying the bike.) It is a lovely bike to ride but utterly impractical for anything bit racing cross. THAT is the sort of cross bike you don't want.

My commuter is (was, before it was stolen) a Specialized Tricross. I had wide slick tyres, full length mudguards and a rack on this. It has all the mounts, very practical.

My tourer, a Van Nicholas Amazon, is sold as both a touring and cross frame, and naturally has all the mounts you would need, I also have wide tyres, mudguards and a rack on this.

You have to change the tyres on a cross bike for use on the road but they will often come in a lot cheaper than a specific tourer as the latter is a very small market. As long as it has the required mount points (and of course it fits you) a cross bike can be a very good choice. Most entry level cross bikes will be designed with versatility in mind and will take rack/mudguards.

BostonB

Is clearance for pedals/bags a problem. On my MTB I had to mount my panniers quite far back and high to stop me clipping it with my heels. I assume its because the rear stays, are quite short on a MTB vs a hybrid/commuter bike. I would assume that a cross bike or even a road bike would have the same issues vs a tourer designed for it. That said you can probably work around it, and some frames are longer than others. I had the idea of heading across the park off road on my commute home. But the slicks I have on my MTB for the road are useless on trails, almost zero grip.

blorg

There are no clearance problems on either the Van Nicholas or the Tricross, and I have quite big feet (45.) They would be the same I think as hybrids I have had before. A traditional touring frame might give more but at likely higher expense and a less sprightly bike.

Ultimately it depends on the specific frame, but many cross frames would be suitable for touring and certainly commuting. I have 12,000km on the VN so far this tour, Ireland to Nepal, and it wasn't all roads either.

A cross bike is much faster than a MTB (or hybrid) on the road while still being able to do non-technical trails with cross tyres. You wouldn't do Ballinastoe on one but the Phoenix Park would be no problem, I went around that often enough training.

tomasrojo

I got about seven or eight years of 7000km per year out of a cheapish hybrid. Mind you, a better bike will be more enjoyable and require less maintenance. I had to replace the rear wheel on that hybrid about five times because the axle snapped under load (old-style freewheels do that under repeated heavy loads), and I was forever clearing out the cup-and-cone bottom bracket.

eco2live

http://www.adverts.ie/bikes/less-then-half-price-felt-city-1/557244

wannabe7a

Wow, respect! Cycling from Ireland to Himalaya. But that wont be part of my plan.

I was wondering about the specialized. My girlfriend has one and it is not bad at all. Therefore I might have a look in the shop:
- specialized sirrus elite 2011
- specialized sirrus sport

I guess the elite is the better one.

ps. sorry to hear that one of your bikes got stolen.

wannabe7a

eco2live wrote: »

http://www.adverts.ie/bikes/less-then-half-price-felt-city-1/557244

Seems like a great bike, but I will have to buy one with the bike to work scheme.

How good is the heaviest gear on this bike?

eco2live

It is very fast. Good range from the gears from easy to hard. Comes with mud guards, helmet, quality mounted lock, repair kit, pump, bottle kit. Quick release wheel nuts changed for light allen key nuts. Carbon fork and hydraulic disc breaks. It is mint. shop condition. The gears can be changed while stopped. Great for commute and very smooth gear changes.

DonalK1981

They're a great commuter. Have a 2009 model and never let me down. Great bike.

blorg

The Sirrus is a nice bike, I had one myself but eventually converted it to drops. I wouldn't rule out drops, my point is you can get a drop bar bike that will take wide tyres, mudguards and a rack, and will as or more durable than any hybrid. While also being faster and more comfortable over longer distances. Skinny-tyred racers are not the only drop bar option.

wannabe7a

blorg wrote: »

The Sirrus is a nice bike, I had one myself but eventually converted it to drops. I wouldn't rule out drops, my point is you can get a drop bar bike that will take wide tyres, mudguards and a rack, and will as or more durable than any hybrid. While also being faster and more comfortable over longer distances. Skinny-tyred racers are not the only drop bar option.

Thanks for that info: I did not know that a drop bar is more comfortable for longer distances and more importantly durable.

I never had a road bike so no experience. I always thought it was less comfortable and less durable. They look more fragile.

A hybrid looks more durable than a road bike. But that was only my impression and not from experience.

The question from this is, is a roadbike with wide tyres, mudguards and a rack not getting close to being a hybrid? Or is it still much faster than a hybrid?

But if it is true that a road bike is more comfortable and durable then it will be much better than a hybrid.

One minus for me: the use of drop bars. I used the road bike the other day but did not use the drop bars, but kept my hands on top of the handle bars. Was more comfortable, but I guess that is because I am not used to cycle at all on road bikes.

blorg

Cross bikes are deigned to be ridden hard off road, which hybrids are not... Similarly with tourers that are designed to carry heavy loads long distances reliably. They are not fragile.

Drops are more comfortable over long distances, say 40-50km+, due to offering more hand positions (and the default "sideways" position you hold drops in being more natural.) If you are never going to do those sort of distances a hybrid will be fine.

To an extent if you specifically don't like drops and don't want to do distance then don't get them, get a hybrid, but on your original post you only mentioned fragility which is not an inherent concern with drop bar bikes (even with racers when used as intended, although carrying a load on one does not work well.)

Note many cross bikes will come with two sets of brake levers so you still have them with your hands on the tops.

A drop bar bike will be faster due to the position of the rider- by far the greatest force you have to overcome on the road is air resistance. But obviously you would need to be comfortable with that position.

wannabe7a

blorg wrote: »

Cross bikes are deigned to be ridden hard off road, which hybrids are not... Similarly with tourers that are designed to carry heavy loads long distances reliably. They are not fragile.

Drops are more comfortable over long distances, say 40-50km+, due to offering more hand positions (and the default "sideways" position you hold drops in being more natural.) If you are never going to do those sort of distances a hybrid will be fine.

To an extent if you specifically don't like drops and don't want to do distance then don't get them, get a hybrid, but on your original post you only mentioned fragility which is not an inherent concern with drop bar bikes (even with racers when used as intended, although carrying a load on one does not work well.)

Note many cross bikes will come with two sets of brake levers so you still have them with your hands on the tops.

A drop bar bike will be faster due to the position of the rider- by far the greatest force you have to overcome on the road is air resistance. But obviously you would need to be comfortable with that position.

Very good summary.

Went to the bike shop in Stillorgan: mycycle/holingworth. Very good selection - Trek, Giant, Bianchi & Specialized. Got good service from Barry.
Compared the Spezialized Sirrus Sport, some similar Giants & Specialized Sirrus Elite. Went for a ride on the Elite and I think that seems like my kind of bike. It is a fast hybrid. Only read today the FAQ of boards and even there they recommend this as one of the bikes in the hybrid category.

brian77

Hi Mate,

I just bought a La pierre sharper 700 2011, great great great bicycle!

Civilian_Target

I was on an upright hybrid as a commuter for years, and moved to a tourer with drops... what a difference! Far from being fragile, the tourer is a much harder bike, and more comfortable too. The rims are narrower, so it takes 28mm instead of 35mm tyres, which means it feels a bit bumpier on the road, but overall, I wouldn't switch back to upright handlebars.

Get a bike with drops, you won't regret it!

wannabe7a

Civilian_Target wrote: »

I was on an upright hybrid as a commuter for years, and moved to a tourer with drops... what a difference! Far from being fragile, the tourer is a much harder bike, and more comfortable too. The rims are narrower, so it takes 28mm instead of 35mm tyres, which means it feels a bit bumpier on the road, but overall, I wouldn't switch back to upright handlebars.

Get a bike with drops, you won't regret it!

I think the tourer are expensive in general. Drops are mentioned as the only option for longer distances. I will stick with the hybrid. Distance is 11 km to work. Dont fancy my tires too narrow as you can expect some unwanted debris on the roads.