Is the new vp of FF a step in the right direction?

raymon

I was hoping for some reform from FF .

Is their new VP a step in the right direction.

Before answering you might want to watch this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtL06DVaZ00

Dannyboy83

FF have nothing 'new' to offer.

Good Riddance.

eden_my_ass

Yes, because electing someone as party VP who was rejected by the people of her own constituency because they deemed her unworthy of representing them is a clear sign of how much FF respect the public they supposedly wish to serve....

Pyridine

FF bankrupted the country. Asolutley NOTHING that they do is a step in the right direction. There's always a hidden agenda.

ninty9er

Ah get over it. Fianna Fáil is going to exist into the future whether you like it or not. Now you can let it anger you and stress yourself, or get on with your life and concentrate on things that actually affect you.

WRT the clip. VB got an answer, just because he didn't like it he asked it again.

It's fine for VB to say what he likes, he can probably afford for his pension to be worthless.

raymon

ninty9er wrote: »

Ah get over it. Fianna Fáil is going to exist into the future whether you like it or not. Now you can let it anger you and stress yourself, or get on with your life and concentrate on things that actually affect you.

WRT the clip. VB got an answer, just because he didn't like it he asked it again.

It's fine for VB to say what he likes, he can probably afford for his pension to be worthless.

I'm not angry or stressed , but thanks for your concern

And it does concern me , that the same bungling fool in this clip is VP of the party that ruined our country

I will not forget what these idiots have done to my country

And by the way she didn't answer the question. Please watch the clip again
.

Liam Byrne

ninty9er wrote: »

Ah get over it. Fianna Fáil is going to exist into the future whether you like it or not. Now you can let it anger you and stress yourself, or get on with your life and concentrate on things that actually affect you.

WRT the clip. VB got an answer, just because he didn't like it he asked it again.

It's fine for VB to say what he likes, he can probably afford for his pension to be worthless.

He didn't get an answer.

If a guarantee has expired then there is no obligation to pay.

Try returning a 13-month-old appliance that had a 12-month guarantee and you'll see how the real world works.

There is, of course, a choice that can be made by the person who previously would have had an obligation, however that choice cannot be explained or bluffed by saying there was an "obligation".

So if someone answers that falsely, VB is perfectly entitled to call her on the lie.

Despite the utterances on here and elsewhere of a drive for (or hope of) "reform" in FF, there is obviously none in reality.

sensibleken

Unless its off a cliff onto a pile of poo covered spikes, then no its not a step in the right direction

mike65

Mary Hannifan was on Morning Ireland today, she spoke as if nothing had happened to her and her party and why they got trashed. Head in the sand stuff.

Oh but she did express concern to get her brother elected to the Seanad

serfboard

mike65 wrote: »

Head in the sand stuff.

If I say it's not happening, it's not happening. And if I say it didn't happen, then it didn't happen.

A bit like Donald Rumsfeld recently saying that America didn't torture anyone because they didn't think that waterboarding etc. was torture.

murphaph

mike65 wrote: »

Oh but she did express concern to get her brother elected to the Seanad

FF priorities in the same place they always have been then. As already said, why do FF think they know better than the electorate who rejected Hanafin at the last election? Pure arrogance of course.

raymon

Looks like nobody from FF is going to defend their new VP .

Surely someone has something to say ........

Liam Byrne

Liam Byrne wrote: »

He didn't get an answer.

Actually, I'll correct my own post.

It, of course, should have read.....

Liam Byrne wrote: »

He didn't get a truthful answer.

There's a subtle difference, so subtle that many high-ranking members of FF can't tell the difference.

So ninty9er is correct. VB did get an answer.

ninty9er wrote: »

VB got an answer, just because he didn't like it he asked it again.

The problem is that it was the type of answer we have come to expect from FF......an untruth. So apologies for any unwarranted contradictions.

However where the above poster is incorrect is in the reason VB asked again - not because "he didn't like it", but because "it was a lie"; a complete fabrication in order to appear to justify an unacceptable and unwarranted act.

In fact, the only people who re-ask questions when they don't like the answer are FF's referendum team!

The rest of us would settle for an honest answer

Anyway, all that means that the new vp makes no difference whatsoever because she's already in the "won it on de horses", "cheapest bailout ever", "the IMF aren't coming", "everyone's to blame" brigade in terms of refusing point-blank to tell the truth.

PomBear

eden_my_ass wrote: »

Yes, because electing someone as party VP who was rejected by the people of her own constituency because they deemed her unworthy of representing them is a clear sign of how much FF respect the public they supposedly wish to serve....

TBF (never thought i'd using that expression in relation to FF), SF had Mary Lou as their Vice prez when she wasn't elected, whatever you think of her, it saw her elected. Also, FF are getting stink over having 20 TDs and no females so i'm guessing this is to appease that. Also, many of FF's 20 have less experience than Hanafin and are alot poorer.

CiaranMT

ninty9er wrote: »

Ah get over it. Fianna Fáil is going to exist into the future whether you like it or not. Now you can let it anger you and stress yourself, or get on with your life and concentrate on things that actually affect you.

WRT the clip. VB got an answer, just because he didn't like it he asked it again.

It's fine for VB to say what he likes, he can probably afford for his pension to be worthless.

99er, he got an answer alright. The answer is clearly wrong, though.

Min

There are rules that political parties must have a TD or senator as the VP of their party?

The FF party TDs are too busy since there are so few of them and all have front bench positions.

It doesn't make much difference who their VP is, they are rather irrelevant at the moment with FG and Labour dominating things.

raymon

Min wrote: »

There are rules that political parties must have a TD or senator as the VP of their party?

The FF party TDs are too busy since there are so few of them and all have front bench positions.

The issue is not whether the Vice President is a TD or senator. This is irrelevant.

The real issue is whether the VP is an incompetent clown or not.

And it does matter. This incompetent stood by while Bertie, Biffo and Brian Lenihan bankrupted our country. She now gets rewarded with the VP position of FF

later12

Do people not realise that this is a position of little real importance in any party, that up until last week, Fianna Fail's leader was Gerry Collins (last seen in the vicinity of the Dail chamber in 1997).

For your own sakes, get over it.

raymon

later10 wrote: »

Do people not realise that this is a position of little real importance in any party, that up until last week, Fianna Fail's leader was Gerry Collins (last seen in the vicinity of the Dail chamber in 1997).

For your own sakes, get over it.

That's all well and good to say get over it , until you hear people like hanafin on the airwaves again ( example morning Ireland) continuing where they left off with their rants

She even mentioned that she is now unemployed. The cheek of her on a six figure sum.

I will " get over it " when they crawl under a rock and disappear , like Biffo did .
Fair play to Biffo , he did completely disappear in shame .

later12

raymon wrote: »

That's all well and good to say get over it , until you hear people like hanafin on the airwaves again ( example morning Ireland) continuing where they left off with their rants

She even mentioned that she is now unemployed. The cheek of her on a six figure sum.

I will " get over it " when they crawl under a rock and disappear , like Biffo did .
Fair play to Biffo , he did completely disappear in shame .

The vice president of FF is often not a TD at all. They really only have influence within the party, for example in helping to co-ordinate the youth wing, or dealing with party finances. I really don't understand why you're so upset if you're not a member of FF and this doesn't affect you.

I'm not defending the vote; if FF is as irrelevant as you all claim, and if none of you are members, I just don't see what the anger is for.

PomBear

Min wrote: »

There are rules that political parties must have a TD or senator as the VP of their party?

The FF party TDs are too busy since there are so few of them and all have front bench positions.

It doesn't make much difference who their VP is, they are rather irrelevant at the moment with FG and Labour dominating things.

Since when?

Mary Lou McDonald wasn't elected and was VP of Sinn Féin

Biggins

raymon wrote: »

I was hoping for some reform from FF .
Is their new VP a step in the right direction.
Before answering you might want to watch this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtL06DVaZ00

To repeat what I stated in After Hours when it was possibly tried to be spun as good PR that she was a good step in the right direction - and that she had recently said sorry for mistakes of others in her org:

Did she apologise for her actual own mistakes?
Its all too easy to apologise for others - especially too when they are not around!
("I'll tell you what - you say sorry for me and I'll say sorry for you - that way neither of us have admitted our own mistakes but it looks like we are saying sorry for past grievances - just not our own ha-ha!!! - but the PR might be good too!")

* Did she apologise for her her personal actions in relation to the stupid abandonment of compilation of school league tables so that schools could actually be discovered as which one's were dire?
(there was a rumour - not confirmed - that the schools in her area at the time were some of the worst in the country - but that could be coincidence of course!)

* Did she apologise for her her personal connection in relation to bias towards private fee paying schools in her constituency when awarding building grants to them in 2005?

* Did she say personally she herself made GREVIOUS personal errors in being stupidly oblivious to the plight of parents of children with autism, and of taking a Thatcherite view, consistent with her decision to engage in a 68 day court battle with the parents who were attempting to obtain appropriate education for their children through the Applied Behavior Analysis (ABA) method?

* Did she personally apologetic for her role in her office abuse in relation to her personal assistant Peter O'Brien who was a candidate in the Dún Laoghaire electoral area?

* Did she personally say sorry for her yet again direct role in the matter of she again later used tax payer funded resources to promote O'Brien in correspondence to voters in the Dún Laoghaire constituency?

...And thats just the tip of the iceberg!

O' yes, lets give a general non-specific (it was all the other guys fault) apology for the sheep of this country, sure some of them will swallow it!

...Looks like they could be right!

So in conclusion, NO!
That €750 million that they gave away (I wonder how much of it went to their buddies? I suspect a great deal) was/is one more 'mistake' along a long line of many that encompasses all that is Fianna fail and by individuals such as her, within it.

later12

Biggins wrote: »

That €750 million that they gave away

Presumably you mean the senior Anglo unguaranteed bond as referred to earlier in this thread...

I wonder how much of it went to their buddies? I suspect a great deal

There is absolutely *nothing* to suggest this - construction tycoons would be some of the last people in Ireland to have their money held up in senior debentures like that, which they would view as the investment equivalent of putting it under a mattress. Not only do you not have evidence of what you are saying, neither can it be supported by logic.

edit: not that I'm getting into an argument about financial instruments, but the above just needs a simple clarification.

Biggins

later10 wrote: »

There is absolutely *nothing* to suggest this - construction tycoons would be some of the last people in Ireland to have their money held up in senior debentures like that, which they would view as the investment equivalent of putting it under a mattress. Not only do you not have evidence of what you are saying, neither can it be supported by logic.

edit: not that I'm getting into an argument about financial instruments, but the above just needs a simple clarification.

Well seeing as we gave the earlier figure away, I for one would sure as heck like to se to whom EXACTLY it had gone to - or at least what percentage of them that got those payments, have FF connections!

I suspect quite a few indeed!

raymon

later10 wrote: »

I'm not defending the vote; if FF is as irrelevant as you all claim, and if none of you are members, I just don't see what the anger is for.

No anger here , just disappointment that these failures are crawling back onto the airwaves one by one as if nothing happened

later12

Biggins wrote: »

I suspect quite a few indeed!

Look there's no engaging with you on this, because you won't listen to reason on anything pertaining to this line of discussion.

Biggins

later10 wrote: »

Look there's no engaging with you on this, because you won't listen to reason on anything pertaining to this line of discussion.

...And if you think or try to say/portray FF just have buddies only in the building trade, then your thinking with blinkers on.

There was ABSOLUTELY NO NEED for that money to be given away - but they did - WHY!!!

beeftotheheels

Biggins wrote: »

...And if you think or try to say/portray FF just have buddies only in the building trade, then your thinking with blinkers on.

There was ABSOLUTELY NO NEED for that money to be given away - but they did - WHY!!!

Is it just me or is anyone else enjoying the notion that we have a thread where no one is defending Fianna Fail, and the only arguments are about who hates them more? If only we had a time machine.....

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

PomBear wrote: »

TBF (never thought i'd using that expression in relation to FF), SF had Mary Lou as their Vice prez when she wasn't elected, whatever you think of her, it saw her elected. Also, FF are getting stink over having 20 TDs and no females so i'm guessing this is to appease that. Also, many of FF's 20 have less experience than Hanafin and are alot poorer.

Thats probably the reason for it alright. And who's to say she wont be a senator quite soon? Not a personal fan of the woman but her not being elected as a TD doesn't mean she can't hold an important position within her party.

Liam Byrne

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

Thats probably the reason for it alright. And who's to say she wont be a senator quite soon? Not a personal fan of the woman but her not being elected as a TD doesn't mean she can't hold an important position within her party.

A "party" is meant to represent the people. If it doesn't then there's no reason for it to exist.

So if people have rejected someone then the party should take note.

That said, some "people" re-elected Michael Lowry and Brian Lenihan, so there's obviously no rule that dictates that only credible and competent people without dodgy track records are elected.

Sometimes I despair for Ireland, and other times I admire its resilience in the face of incompetent twats.

raymon

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

And who's to say she wont be a senator quite soon? .

I hope not

I propose that FF sends her on a back to work training scheme as a clown.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

raymon wrote: »

I hope not

I propose that FF sends her on a back to work training scheme as a clown.

I met her once and that job would suit her. Unfortunately though they probably will make her a senator.

ninty9er

CiaranMT wrote: »

99er, he got an answer alright. The answer is clearly wrong, though.

Opinions differ. for example mine with yours, or whether that was a question to which there was a right or wrong answer. It related to a past action, so therefore it was more of an explanation than an answer.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

I met her once and that job would suit her. Unfortunately though they probably will make her a senator.

"Make her a senator"?

You're talking with the grown ups now. I suggest you take a look at how Seanad elections work before making any further such silly comments.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

ninty9er wrote: »

"Make her a senator"?

You're talking with the grown ups now. I suggest you take a look at how Seanad elections work before making any further such silly comments.

I know it works through an undemocratic and needlessly complicated system of election. It still amounts to parties getting to appoint people who didn't win election to the Dail as Senators. If the Fianna Fail party wish for Mary Hanafin to be a Senator she will be one.

raymon

ninty9er wrote: »

"Make her a senator"?

You're talking with the grown ups now. I suggest you take a look at how Seanad elections work before making any further such silly comments.

What a disrespectful post .

FF councillors could make her a senator.

Maybe you ninty9er need to learn a few basic principles of politics

Liam Byrne

ninty9er wrote: »

Opinions differ. for example mine with yours, or whether that was a question to which there was a right or wrong answer. It related to a past action, so therefore it was more of an explanation than an answer.

That doesn't make sense.

The fact that it was a past action means that there were obvious reasons why it was done.

Her comments about us having an "obligation" under the guarantee were lies. The guarantee had expired.

Why FF chose to do it remains a mystery, and she chose not to give an honest and truthful answer.

jank

I am glad. Having her mug around the place lecturing the rest on what to do will make sure that FF will never be back to where they were. FF are finished as a party in my opinion. Nobody wants to be associated with them apart from a few party hacks. They will be remembered for 40 years as the party of Bertie who ruined the country.

Even my dad who was FF all his life turned his back on them last GE, he will never vote for them again. If a man of 70 isnt going to vote for them what chance a man of 30? LOL no way!

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

jank wrote: »

I am glad. Having her mug around the place lecturing the rest on what to do will make sure that FF will never be back to where they were. FF are finished as a party in my opinion. Nobody wants to be associated with them apart from a few party hacks. They will be remembered for 40 years as the party of Bertie who ruined the country.

Even my dad who was FF all his life turned his back on them last GE, he will never vote for them again. If a man of 70 isnt going to vote for them what chance a man of 30? LOL no way!

As much as I hate Fianna Fail I think you're being a little bit too optimistic.

Seloth

Here lads all this FF bashing makes politics now seem as if its AH.

Even ,the Former FG leader John Bruton has said FF is the only party to have changed truly in recent times and is dedicated to such reforms.

raymon

Seloth wrote: »

Here lads all this FF bashing makes politics now seem as if its AH.

Even ,the Former FG leader John Bruton has said FF is the only party to have changed truly in recent times and is dedicated to such reforms.

Do you agree that FF has reformed ?

If so please give proper examples.

Do you agree that hanafin is a step in the right direction ?

If so please give reasons.

This thread was not created to bash any party. It was meant to be a forum where the FF faithful could explain why hanafin was a good choice of VP and be prepared to debate.

It is a serious matter that FF have ran the country into the ground. Definitely not ah material.

Laminations

How's this reforming FF from the inside going??

Oh, I see...

Oh dear...

So now what's the excuse for remaining in the belly of the beast?

DJCR

Laminations wrote: »

So now what's the excuse for remaining in the belly of the beast?

20% of the vote.

Also as much as the new government is getting a lullaby period with regards to how they are running the country i.e. getting used to it etc etc etc
They are not exactly covering themselves in glory and it is only now that they are seeing the FF were telling the truth and their draconian methods of stripping the tax payer were/are necessary - hence they are being continued.

On the other hand you have FF, demoralized, in opposition for the first time in years, a collapse in their vote by over half and you want them to have their soul searching done and dusted in just over a month?

Fianna Fail are just about the largest party in opposition and they want to be a credible opposition. Mary Hannafin, no matter what your political views are, is an extremely hard worker and she can hit the ground running in the role. This will allow FF to maintain a credible opposition (something that has been seriously lacking in recent years) while reforming the party, getting out there, seeing what people want. Yes Fianna Fail is reforming, but it takes time.... took FG 4 elections.

At the end of the day, Mary Hannafin, while rejected by the people at the last election doesn't have to leave the party/politics, plenty of politicians have lost elections and continued to work within parties........ how is this different?
FF needed a new deputy leader, the clear out has already begun .... Bertie, Callelly, O'Donoghue etc Would you put Mary Hannafin in the same category as these crooks?

With so few people on the head opposition bench and every one having a shadow role they wouldn't have the time to take on the internal restructuring of the party.


Let the crucification begin................

ToadVine

DJCR wrote: »

FF needed a new deputy leader, the clear out has already begun .... Bertie, Callelly, O'Donoghue etc Would you put Mary Hannafin in the same category as these crooks?

Bertie and O'Donoghue were not "cleared out". One didnt stand by choice (and retired with a fat pension) and the other was rejected by his electorate (and now has a fat pension). If either (or both) had been elected at the last GE they would still be FF TD's in the FF party. Just like wee Willy.

And yes, I would put Hanafin in the same category as those crooks.

DJCR

ToadVine wrote: »

And yes, I would put Hanafin in the same category as those crooks.

Theres unfortunately no getting rid of Willie.... Only thing going for FF on this one is that he's getting old and will have to go sooner rather than later.

Saying you would put Hannafin in the same category is all well and good, but why?

PomBear

Seloth wrote: »

Here lads all this FF bashing makes politics now seem as if its AH.

Even ,the Former FG leader John Bruton has said FF is the only party to have changed truly in recent times and is dedicated to such reforms.

There's always one.....

CiaranMT

ninty9er wrote: »

Opinions differ. for example mine with yours, or whether that was a question to which there was a right or wrong answer. It related to a past action, so therefore it was more of an explanation than an answer.

Shifting the goalposts will get you nowhere. First you stated sh gave the right answer, now you're saying it was more of an explanation. An explanation which wasn't valid.

[/quote]"Make her a senator"?

You're talking with the grown ups now. I suggest you take a look at how Seanad elections work before making any further such silly comments.[/QUOTE]

raymon wrote:

Maybe you ninty9er need to learn a few basic principles of politics

This is the thing. 99er is one of the Sabbat. Officers in UL, and incumbent President, no less.

Liam Byrne

DJCR wrote: »

Fianna Fail are just about the largest party in opposition and they want to be a credible opposition. Mary Hannafin, no matter what your political views are, is an extremely hard worker and she can hit the ground running in the role. This will allow FF to maintain a credible opposition.....

We're having a discussion about how Hanafin blatantly lied on Vincent Browne, and you suggest that she somehow allows them to be a "credible" opposition ?

I give up!

DJCR

Liam Byrne wrote: »

We're having a discussion about how Hanafin blatantly lied on Vincent Browne, and you suggest that she somehow allows them to be a "credible" opposition ?

I give up!

Could you link the episode she lied in (all the episodes are on the TV3 website), never heard about it and would like to see it.

Liam Byrne

DJCR wrote: »

Could you link the episode she lied in (all the episodes are on the TV3 website), never heard about it and would like to see it.

It's in the very first post of the thread.....i.e. part of the reason for this discussion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtL06DVaZ00

DJCR

She lied about honouring an agreement after the time had lapsed.

So, basically the decision was made that even after the guarentee ran out they were going to pay them anyway.

She then lists reasons for this....

I have to say Vincent was very good, and Joan's little imput makes me delighted that she isn't Finance minister because we are going to have to deal with the bond markets again and I do believe an unburned bond market will be a little more receptive in the short term.

Seloth

PomBear wrote: »

There's always one.....

Care to explain?