Motorways - do people not see the dangers?

Greenacres

I travel the new section of motorway from Ennis to Gort everyday and while it annoys me to see tractors using it, I think it is highly dangerous, I have been told that they are allowed once they are capable of traveling at over 50km/hr.
But this morning, and not for the first time I see a guy on his bicycle, in all the racing gear traveling towards Ennis on the hard shoulder as I approached Gort.

What should I do in this situation? Ignore it? Would I be wasting my time ringing the gards(obvioulsy once I had left the motorway and pulled over!)?

I don't understand how people do not see the dangers of being a pedestrian/cyclist/stopping for a pee/answering your phone on a road where vehicles are doing 120 km/hr!

I have seen a mini bus of lads pulled over all for a pee. I have seen a car pulled over with them having sandwiches around the car!

Gregor Samsa

I saw a guy in a van pull into the hard shoulder just before the Barefield exit last week. 2 kids in the cab. Then he hops out, runs across the northbound carriageway, vaults the concrete barrier, and runs across the other carriageway to jump the barrier to do something in the field on the other side of the road. All this with traffic tearing along at 120 km/h. Even if he had taken 2 minutes to drive up to the Barefield exit, through the inderpass, and onto the south bound carriageway, it wouldn't have been half as bad.

I also saw a cyclist one night in winter, just before the Dromoland interchange, with no lights on, but wearing one of the free RSA high-vis vests they gave out with newspapers as part of their road safety campaign for pedestrians and cyclists.

I've reported a cyclist before - cycling up the exit ramp at Shannon in the middle of the road. I don't know if anyting came of it.

ClareVisitor

If you want more...

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056009358

Greenacres

Thanks ClareVisitor,

I am not a bit surprised that this is widespread.
I guess I posted in the Clare board in the hope that one of the offenders might read and think about what they are doing, or know the cyclist!

Clareboy

As far as I know, Ireland is the only country without motorway service areas or lay bys on our main roads. And we all know why! I suppose people have to stop on the motorways to relive themselves if there is no where else to go!

Greenacres

Clareboy wrote: »

As far as I know, Ireland is the only country without motorway service areas or lay bys on our main roads. And we all know why! I suppose people have to stop on the motorways to relive themselves if there is no where else to go!

There are lay bys on the Ennis to Gort stretch.

Sorry Clareboy that is just not good enough in my book.
What is the worst that would happen if you didn't stop? Very unlikely to wet yourself, most would make it to next exit, or ok at worst wet pants. Vs what is the worst that could happen to you pulled over on the hard shoulder of a motorway.....

I know which risk I would take.

Clareboy

Greenacres wrote: »

There are lay bys on the Ennis to Gort stretch.

Sorry Clareboy that is just not good enough in my book.
What is the worst that would happen if you didn't stop? Very unlikely to wet yourself, most would make it to next exit, or ok at worst wet pants. Vs what is the worst that could happen to you pulled over on the hard shoulder of a motorway.....

I know which risk I would take.

Point taken, but you have to admit that is was madness to build hundreds of miles of motorways without service areas.

ClareVisitor

As I understand it some service areas are being built, I'm surprised there aren't more though as it's really just a cash cow for the government. Her in the UK there are service areas at 30-40 mile intervals on busy motorways, I don't see why something similar wouldn't work in Ireland.

Greenacres

Clareboy wrote: »

Point taken, but you have to admit that is was madness to build hundreds of miles of motorways without service areas.

Yeah, absolutely, you are setting people up to take risks by not providing safe stopping points.

I guess I appreciate the danger more than some as I know someone hit in the hard shoulder by a truck seconds after pulling in with an overheated car.
A year on and she is still not walking unaided. But a huge improvement from the coma she was left in, and she has regained a huge amount of her speech and the movement on one side she lost. If anyone made a visit to the national rehabilitation hospital in Dublin, I would daresay they would change their attitude to the danger you put yourself in by being in the hard shoulder by choice or not.

PARKHEAD67

Clareboy wrote: »

Point taken, but you have to admit that is was madness to build hundreds of miles of motorways without service areas.

Not really.Ireland is a small country.Theres no great need for these service areas.If youve to pee do so before you leave or pull off at the nearest exit and go into a hotel.Its not like America where theres 100,000s of miles of motorway.:)

Stuxnet

phutyle wrote: »

I saw a guy in a van pull into the hard shoulder just before the Barefield exit last week. 2 kids in the cab. Then he hops out, runs across the northbound carriageway, vaults the concrete barrier, and runs across the other carriageway to jump the barrier to do something in the field on the other side of the road. All this with traffic tearing along at 120 km/h. Even if he had taken 2 minutes to drive up to the Barefield exit, through the inderpass, and onto the south bound carriageway, it wouldn't have been half as bad.

.

checking for a stash by the sounds of it !!

PARKHEAD67

iPwnage wrote: »

checking for a stash by the sounds of it !!

Maybe.And in a VAN too:D. Sounds dodgy alright.

golden8

Ive seen a guy cycle on the limerick bound side of the ennis bypass in the overtaking lane heading towards Gort needless to say I rang the guards.

You do need breaks on the motorway drive. I drive quite alot and do take break its easy to get off the motorway and go into a town or the nearest hotel. say for example if your going from limerick to dub you can stop of at Midway at the old cork junction on M7.

Lady Chatterton

PARKHEAD67 wrote: »

Not really.Ireland is a small country.Theres no great need for these service areas.If youve to pee do so before you leave or pull off at the nearest exit and go into a hotel.Its not like America where theres 100,000s of miles of motorway.:)

Parkhead - you obviously have never travelled in a car with toddlers, they have been known to suffer from travel sickness you know :)

PARKHEAD67

MrsD007 wrote: »

Parkhead - you obviously have never travelled in a car with toddlers, they have been known to suffer from travel sickness you know :)

True dat:D

mahamageehad

Greenacres wrote: »

I travel the new section of motorway from Ennis to Gort everyday and while it annoys me to see tractors using it, I think it is highly dangerous, I have been told that they are allowed once they are capable of traveling at over 50km/hr.
But this morning, and not for the first time I see a guy on his bicycle, in all the racing gear traveling towards Ennis on the hard shoulder as I approached Gort.

What should I do in this situation? Ignore it? Would I be wasting my time ringing the gards(obvioulsy once I had left the motorway and pulled over!)?

I don't understand how people do not see the dangers of being a pedestrian/cyclist/stopping for a pee/answering your phone on a road where vehicles are doing 120 km/hr!

I have seen a mini bus of lads pulled over all for a pee. I have seen a car pulled over with them having sandwiches around the car!

Forgive me if i'm missing something, but I don't really see the harm in this?? I mean if a cyclist is in the hard shoulder- what harm?? Cars aren't supposed to drive in the hard shoulder. If he's in racing gear it's safe to assume he's a professional and is capable of doing a fast speed as well as knowing the rules of the road??

I don't mean this condescendingly but I'm sure the gardaí have a lot worse to be worrying about than a cyclist on the motorway who shouldn't be there. Indeed there are many learner drivers who shouldn't be there either and they're not driving in the hard shoulder out of everyones way, they are on the road where they can cause serious damage.

Clareman

I think this debate would be better suited in the Motors section as it has to do with the rules of the road rather than just Clare

Oh_Noes

mahamageehad wrote: »

Forgive me if i'm missing something, but I don't really see the harm in this?? I mean if a cyclist is in the hard shoulder- what harm?? Cars aren't supposed to drive in the hard shoulder. If he's in racing gear it's safe to assume he's a professional and is capable of doing a fast speed as well as knowing the rules of the road??

I don't mean this condescendingly but I'm sure the gardaí have a lot worse to be worrying about than a cyclist on the motorway who shouldn't be there. Indeed there are many learner drivers who shouldn't be there either and they're not driving in the hard shoulder out of everyones way, they are on the road where they can cause serious damage.

That scares the crap out of me anytime I see a pedestrian or a cyclist on the motorway. If I hit a bump and my car skids into another car, with a bit of luck both our cars will take the hit and no one will be hurt. If there's a cyclist/pedestrian there they'll be killed.

What if your tyre blows out and you immediately have to get into the hard shoulder and there's a cyclist there? Or coming up to a pothole in the road but can't avoid it because someone is overtaking on the right and the pedestrian is in the hard shoulder.

If he's in racing gear/professional then no difference. He's still going to be killed if something comes off the road and into the hard shoulder.

It's just stupid for anyone not in a car to be on a hard shoulder of a motorway. It puts everyone at risk.

Clareman

The biggest worry I would have for non-motorists would be the effect that a truck passing at high speed would have on them, you could be easily be pulled into oncoming traffic

Stinicker

Irish people are totally oblivious to Motorways if you ask me.

Last year I was travelling down home from Belfast and was on the M7 somewhere near Naas and was belting it well at about 80mph when out of nowhere Pedestrians (two teenage girls) darted across the southbound carriageway to the grass centre median, visibility was good and I managed to slow down jamming foot on the brakes and hand on the horn simultaneously swerving into the hard shoulder, luckily the two stupid dopes made it across and out of my path but I tell you it was definitely a brown underpants moment. I got such a fright I turned off down the old N7 and plodded on down to Kerry on the old N7 instead of taking my usual route on the M8 to Cork.

Don't even get me started on the antics of Motorists.

PARKHEAD67

mahamageehad wrote: »

Forgive me if i'm missing something, but I don't really see the harm in this?? I mean if a cyclist is in the hard shoulder- what harm?? Cars aren't supposed to drive in the hard shoulder. If he's in racing gear it's safe to assume he's a professional and is capable of doing a fast speed as well as knowing the rules of the road??

I don't mean this condescendingly but I'm sure the gardaí have a lot worse to be worrying about than a cyclist on the motorway who shouldn't be there. Indeed there are many learner drivers who shouldn't be there either and they're not driving in the hard shoulder out of everyones way, they are on the road where they can cause serious damage.

Man was killed not so long ago on a bike on that motorway(Howard Flannery)-He was on the hard shoulder.(Prob a dual carriageway at the time.)Tragic accident, but that happened.:(. Motorways arent safe for cyclists IMO.Theyre not even safe for half the motorists on em.Dont get me going...

CiniO

Greenacres wrote: »

I travel the new section of motorway from Ennis to Gort everyday and while it annoys me to see tractors using it, I think it is highly dangerous, I have been told that they are allowed once they are capable of traveling at over 50km/hr.
But this morning, and not for the first time I see a guy on his bicycle, in all the racing gear traveling towards Ennis on the hard shoulder as I approached Gort.

What should I do in this situation? Ignore it? Would I be wasting my time ringing the gards(obvioulsy once I had left the motorway and pulled over!)?

I don't understand how people do not see the dangers of being a pedestrian/cyclist/stopping for a pee/answering your phone on a road where vehicles are doing 120 km/hr!

I have seen a mini bus of lads pulled over all for a pee. I have seen a car pulled over with them having sandwiches around the car!

I traveled a good bit all over Europe, but never seen any country where there would be more cars stopping for a pee, phone call, sandwich, etc on a motorway than in Ireland.

On the other hand, I've never seen any country, which would have so little service areas, and parking within motorways.

Maybe this two item are linked to each other somehow.

golden8

PARKHEAD67 wrote: »

Man was killed not so long ago on a bike on that motorway(Howard Flannery)-He was on the hard shoulder.(Prob a dual carriageway at the time.)Tragic accident, but that happened.:(. Motorways arent safe for cyclists IMO.Theyre not even safe for half the motorists on em.Dont get me going...

It was a dual carriageway at the time of the accident. There is a headstone where Howard Flannery RIP was killed in Newmarket on Fergus section of the then N18 (now M18). One person minding his own business cycling then a vehicle ploughs into them on the hard shoulder. Heres the link

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/father-killed-in-crash-while-cycling-with-his-friend-691022.html


Also my partner was overtaking some slower moving vehicles on M20 and all cars travelling on the right direction had to do evassive driving as there was a vehicle going down the wrong way and on the overtaking lane that my partner was on. Luckly the driver that he was overtaking had the cop on to go into hardshoulder.

Captain Commie

There is a reason this sign is up at the entrance to every motor way, SAFETY (and its also enforced by law).

I frequently see people walking along the M50, it scares the crap outta me as all it would take is for a blowout and that person could be seriously injured or killed.

I have travelled quite alot in the UK and the North and have only ever seen this happen in the South (not saying it doesnt happen elsewhere), appears to me that its just the Irish way, "we will do what we want and ignore any rules"

I have also seen a cyclist on the M50 that was pulled by the Guards, really hope he was prosecuted.

golden8

Axis Cometo wrote: »

There is a reason this sign is up at the entrance to every motor way, SAFETY (and its also enforced by law).

I frequently see people walking along the M50, it scares the crap outta me as all it would take is for a blowout and that person could be seriously injured or killed.

I have travelled quite alot in the UK and the North and have only ever seen this happen in the South (not saying it doesnt happen elsewhere), appears to me that its just the Irish way, "we will do what we want and ignore any rules"

I have also seen a cyclist on the M50 that was pulled by the Guards, really hope he was prosecuted.

There are no signs on the M18 but that does not give excuses for non compliance of rotr.

corktina

ClareVisitor wrote: »

As I understand it some service areas are being built, I'm surprised there aren't more though as it's really just a cash cow for the government. Her in the UK there are service areas at 30-40 mile intervals on busy motorways, I don't see why something similar wouldn't work in Ireland.

because our motorways are not busy....

Lando Griffin

1. The hard shoulder on a motorway is specifically for emergency services, ambulance, guarda fire engines. If a cyclist or pedestrian is on this lane they are causing an obstruction to said emergency services who may have to use these lanes in busy traffic.
2. The drag effect of passing trucks vans and cars can cause the cyclist to loose control and dragged onto the motorway.
3. If a vehicle eg truck has broken down and is stationary on the hard shoulder, then the pedestrian or cyclist may be forced onto the motorway to overtake, at 40 foot long this would take the average walker approx. 20 seconds at least to do.
4. There is a lot of debris on the hard shoulder tyres, glass litter etc which could cause personal injury to the cyclist or pedestrian causing the emergency services to attend said injuries and possibly having to close a lane to complete their rescue.
5. Drivers get tired and veer off the motor way if there is nobody walking or cycling then they cant be hit.

Thats my 2 cents anyway.

fatboypee

sorry,
wrong post.

AugustusMinimus

No excuse for cyclists on motorways.

I keep passing (I presume the same cyclist) on the Glanmire to Watergrasshill stretch of the M8 early on a Saturday morning.

I'll report him to the Gardai next time I see him.

highlydebased

Unfortunately there is a mentality by at least half the motoring population that its OK to do whatever you damn like on the road. These are the type of people who consider the right hand lane the "fast lane", consider it acceptable to drive half in the hard shoulder and half on the road because they want to drive at a dangerously slow speed, using no indication and wrong lanes on roundabouts etc, the sort of people who've been involved in the recent turning around when seeing the N18 toll plaza and driving down against the traffic.

I don't know what we can do really- perhaps erect "NO STOPPING- KEEP IN LEFT LANE" signs on motorways? A massive waste of money it would be though. A massive Garda campaign would be needed to clamp down on such bad driving, and I'm sure the resources are not there at the moment to do it. Besides, it's a disgrace that the system has failed to such an extent that the Gardai would even need to implement such a campaign.

coolbeans

mahamageehad wrote: »

Forgive me if i'm missing something, but I don't really see the harm in this?? I mean if a cyclist is in the hard shoulder- what harm?? Cars aren't supposed to drive in the hard shoulder. If he's in racing gear it's safe to assume he's a professional and is capable of doing a fast speed as well as knowing the rules of the road??

I don't mean this condescendingly but I'm sure the gardaí have a lot worse to be worrying about than a cyclist on the motorway who shouldn't be there. Indeed there are many learner drivers who shouldn't be there either and they're not driving in the hard shoulder out of everyones way, they are on the road where they can cause serious damage.

I'm a cyclist. I love it. But cycling on a motorway is ludicrous, just ludicrous. The biggest reason bikes are prohibited is that they can't cross entry ramps safely. Just imagine a bike passing an entry ramp as cars are accelerating up to 120kph as they join. The result is inevitable conflict. Bloody stupid IMO. I don't like the idea of banning bikes from any roads but in this instance where is no option.

mahamageehad

Oh_Noes wrote: »

That scares the crap out of me anytime I see a pedestrian or a cyclist on the motorway. If I hit a bump and my car skids into another car, with a bit of luck both our cars will take the hit and no one will be hurt. If there's a cyclist/pedestrian there they'll be killed.

What if your tyre blows out and you immediately have to get into the hard shoulder and there's a cyclist there? Or coming up to a pothole in the road but can't avoid it because someone is overtaking on the right and the pedestrian is in the hard shoulder.

If he's in racing gear/professional then no difference. He's still going to be killed if something comes off the road and into the hard shoulder.

It's just stupid for anyone not in a car to be on a hard shoulder of a motorway. It puts everyone at risk.

I still think it's irrelevant! A blowout or a crash could just as easily happen on a dual carriageway- where cyclists are allowed. The speed difference is only 20 km different. Also if you skid into another car an a motorway i doubt the cars will take the hit if you are doing the correct speed.

Lando Griffin wrote: »

1. The hard shoulder on a motorway is specifically for emergency services, ambulance, guarda fire engines. If a cyclist or pedestrian is on this lane they are causing an obstruction to said emergency services who may have to use these lanes in busy traffic.
2. The drag effect of passing trucks vans and cars can cause the cyclist to loose control and dragged onto the motorway.
3. If a vehicle eg truck has broken down and is stationary on the hard shoulder, then the pedestrian or cyclist may be forced onto the motorway to overtake, at 40 foot long this would take the average walker approx. 20 seconds at least to do.
4. There is a lot of debris on the hard shoulder tyres, glass litter etc which could cause personal injury to the cyclist or pedestrian causing the emergency services to attend said injuries and possibly having to close a lane to complete their rescue.
5. Drivers get tired and veer off the motor way if there is nobody walking or cycling then they cant be hit.

Thats my 2 cents anyway.

1 and 2 very valid points.
3 i'll accept but i really doubt that the pedestrian would have to walk onto the motorway, I doubt a break down would be impassable while staying in the lane.
4... there's debris everywhere and we can't nanny everyone all the time. Plus tires and glass may also impede the emergency services who may be using that lane, so it's in everyone's interest to keep this clean
5... is nonsense i think. drivers shouldn't be on a motorway, or indeed any road at all if they are tired enough to "veer". And if they are veering on the motorway they put all the other drivers at risk, more so than some pedestrian or cyclist who may or may not be there.

I'm not arguing for cyclists to have the right to cycle on the motorway, as coolbeans said it's ludicrous. But I can't see why this is such a big deal to people, enough for the op to consider calling the gardaí, when there are so many dangerous drivers out there going the wrong way onto the motorway etc endangering many peoples lives. Just my 2c

Shamo

Was driving southbound on the M50 last night around 9pm and there was an SUV stopped in the fast lane with hazards on. This was with no traffic infront just cars slamming on their breaks and going into the slow lane.

It must have been those new instant stop and can't move at all car failures. F*cking idiot.

AugustusMinimus

mahamageehad wrote: »

But I can't see why this is such a big deal to people, enough for the op to consider calling the gardaí, when there are so many dangerous drivers out there going the wrong way onto the motorway etc endangering many peoples lives. Just my 2c

I've often seen cyclists on motorways yet never a person driving the wrong way.

I'll contact the Gardai once I come across it happening though.


On the flip side, the only benefit of cyclists on motorways is that there are no red lights for them to break.

slimjimmc

mahamageehad wrote: »

I still think it's irrelevant! A blowout or a crash could just as easily happen on a dual carriageway- where cyclists are allowed. The speed difference is only 20 km different. Also if you skid into another car an a motorway i doubt the cars will take the hit if you are doing the correct speed.

1 and 2 very valid points.
3 i'll accept but i really doubt that the pedestrian would have to walk onto the motorway, I doubt a break down would be impassable while staying in the lane.
4... there's debris everywhere and we can't nanny everyone all the time. Plus tires and glass may also impede the emergency services who may be using that lane, so it's in everyone's interest to keep this clean
5... is nonsense i think. drivers shouldn't be on a motorway, or indeed any road at all if they are tired enough to "veer". And if they are veering on the motorway they put all the other drivers at risk, more so than some pedestrian or cyclist who may or may not be there.

I'm not arguing for cyclists to have the right to cycle on the motorway, as coolbeans said it's ludicrous. But I can't see why this is such a big deal to people, enough for the op to consider calling the gardaí, when there are so many dangerous drivers out there going the wrong way onto the motorway etc endangering many peoples lives. Just my 2c

It's not nonsense, far from it.
Plenty of drivers get tired, distracted by phone or paperwork, etc and yes they should be driving but they do. Just like pedestrians and cyclists shouldn't use a motorway but they do, just like motorists shouldn't pull in for a pee, phone call or mammy's home-made ham sandwich, but they do.
I don't have enough fingers to count how many times I've seen lorries which otherwise appeared to be driving perfectly, occasionally drift into the hard shoulder and narrowly miss someone stopped there.

Whatever about the cause being a problem, the consequences are often catastrophic! So it's definitely best to stay out of the h/s unless absolutely necessary. There's a good reason why UK police drill into drivers the importance of getting everyone out of the car and up the embankment if you're broken down.

Shamo

Shamo wrote: »

Was driving southbound on the M50 last night around 9pm and there was an SUV stopped in the fast lane with hazards on. This was with no traffic infront just cars slamming on their breaks and going into the slow lane.

It must have been those new instant stop and can't move at all car failures. F*cking idiot.

Stopped in which lane?

swoofer

AHA the outside or overtaking lane, a freudian slip.

We are a strange race, dont use phone when driving??? what do we see loads of people on phone!! Its illegal but we dont care. A no entry sign, what do we do... drive in wrong way, a parking space, what do we do, park crooked ignore next person either side, I dont really care that I have made it a bind for other person to get in and out of their car.

There are so many instances all happened to me this morning and its the... norm.

There are a lot of good drivers as well and things have improved over last 6 years. I returned in 2004. And we are not alone, standards in UK are falling to our level rapidly, no indicating, mad overtaking on MW's ie using inside lane, cutting up, jumping lights yes they are falling to our level fast.

A guy in uk today did his ironing on the M1 I hope they shove the iron as far as possible etc. I know its closed on a bit but FFS making a point of taking an iron on a motorway!! Ciopycats will now do it on bits not closed.

I hope the new driving test rules will improve things here a lot but too late for a lot of us.

I stay calm as people are really psyched up now, my advice let it go and let someone else run them over.

noah

mcwhirter

Clareboy wrote: »

As far as I know, Ireland is the only country without motorway service areas or lay bys on our main roads. And we all know why! I suppose people have to stop on the motorways to relive themselves if there is no where else to go!

Agree, it is only recently there have been places to stop off the M1 and how many years has it been open!

Ireland is so backward in this respect.

hoodie6029

My simple advice for motorway driving, anywhere, is not to rush, just make progress. Don't get aggreivated over some plank who is holding you up for a whole two minutes.

If someone is tailgating leave them there until you're finished overtaking. If they're driving dangerously just get out of the way safely.

Motorways are not vastly faster than the old N roads but they are vastly safer.

As a cyclist, I can't think of a worse place to cycle, on so many levels, than a motorway/dual carraigeway. The roads they replaced are deserted and smooth and have a bit of scenery. Anyone cycling on a motorway need to be commited. No joke.

Shadow Dancer

There were 3 young clowns ( and the not the ones that work in the circus ) walking on the Hard Shoulder of the M18. This was about 05.15 on Saturday morning when it was dark. They had dark clothes on and just to increase their chances of being mowed down, were walking 3 abreast :pac:.