Being Drunk is Typically Irish Says Trinity Student - But is it ?

CDfm

Everyone has heard of the Jessie J Twitter comment on the Drunkeness at the Trinity Ball.

(for those who haven't here is a link)

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/features/2011/0411/1224294390278.html

Reading an article in the IT this morning I see this

Headline act Jessie J was upset by the ‘drunken trampling’ of students at Friday’s Trinity Ball, but it’s not ‘typically Trinity’ to be drunk – it’s typically Irish, argues TCD student DYLAN HASKINS

Now I disagree somewhat.

I used to party but these days dont -age and leaving it to a new generation. Lots of my friends don't party hard. Lots of people I know would disagree with the statement.

There is a part of me that says - alright but there is another excuse for a bash and its highly commercialised and the Trinity SU big payday. There is another part of me that says the Trinity Ball used to be a class event.No more.

Maybe people do not know how to behave at a Black Tie event.

So no Dylan. I don't agree with you. The Trinty Ball is nothing more than a student booze up. Its not typically Irish & I do not know if its typical student.

So the question is typical Irish or not at an event ?

kfallon

Students are not a fair representation of the drinkers in this country. I have stopped going to a certain establishment because of them, a lot of them are like animals on a night out, bringing cans into places, pissing in sinks etc!

You can't have a quiet pint with them around!

It's not all students to be fair but the minority can often give the majority a bad name!

davetherave

Is this the same Dylan Haskins that tried and failed miserably to become an elected representative?

Well sorry to disappoint, but I guess I'm not a typical Irish person then

Count Duckula

Didn't the smarmy git try and run for the Dáil? I remember seeing his face plastered all over Dublin when I visited my girlfriend.

hidinginthebush

I wish it wasn't, but I think so. Thinking back to everytime I've been away, once you mention you're Irish, people usually steer the conversation towards drinking or something along those lines. Also it probably doesn't help that we're usually delighted to be seen as such and hence make drunken fools of ourselves on our travels. While we may not accept it, it is one of the stereotypes we have been labelled with.

Otis Driftwood

Ok folks,lets keep it on topic.Bashing yer man that made the comment doesnt serve any purpose so no more of it please.

Cheers,
OD.

foxyboxer

Being a student doesn't give you a license to act like a see you next tuesday. (pissing in sinks, public disorder etc)
"Ah sure isn't that what students do?"

There is the notion I agree with that idea of having a good time in groups of that size follows "Don't see a great night wasted, see it obliterated" and that only by achieving that have you had a good time.

There's no kudos in saying "I enjoyed the evening, had a few drinks and enjoyed the music and letting the hair down"
There's a certain bravado attached to "I was completely wasted and feel like sh1t now, but sure it was a great night anyway"

Kevin Duffy

There speaks a man who's never been to any city or regional town in the UK on a weekend night, or to some of the pubs favoured by particular non-Irish nationalities, or to some of the house parties full of Lidl beer and cheap vodka which are attended by people of all nationalities all over Ireland on any given weekend.

Some Irish get bladdered, some don't. This applies in any country with liberal alcohol laws. Hardly news, is it?

Wolfe Tone

Being a student, eh yeah its fairly typical for students to go out and get hammered, especially at an event like the trinity ball.

CBBB

No, I don't agree at all, we may drink, and to others it may seem like a lot, but most Irish people take their time drinking, and rarely get stupidfied drunk, at least, once your over 30. The pub scene is more to do with chat, and socialising, then getting rat faced and pulling. Trinity students should know better, eejits.

As Geraldine put it so well 'Daddy can't buy you cop on at Trinity'

IngazZagni

What he says is true. "Typically" doesn't mean everybody. But this is a drinking culture nation and if you don't believe that then you clearly don't get out that much. Here's some facts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_consumption

Look at Ireland right at the head of that list. It doesn't matter if it's TCD, DIT, UL, WIT, UCD, whatever letters you put together, the scene is still the same. That's the typical scene, not from everyone.

davetherave wrote: »

Is this the same Dylan Haskins that tried and failed miserably to become an elected representative?

Well sorry to disappoint, but I guess I'm not a typical Irish person then

Did you even follow the elections? For a first time candidate, at the age he is, an indo with no party support and finishing well in the top half of the table was a major achievement in itself. I expect big things from him in the future.

For the record, I rarely drink but the majority of my friends do and the most common question from all of them is "when are we getting pissed next?" Like it or not, it's true.

Kevin Duffy

IngazZagni wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_consumption

Look at Ireland right at the head of that list.


For the record, I rarely drink but the majority of my friends do and the most common question from all of them is "when are we getting pissed next?" Like it or not, it's true.

I'm not great at understanding statistics, but Ireland appears 16th on that list, not at the head of it. I have no idea how they arrive at the rankings mind you.
Even taking it at 16th, there are reasons why that would be spread out over a wide demographic - we can legally drink at 18 and alcohol is available to mean and women equally for example - which aren't true of every country on the list for cultural or legal reasons, so you may have highr consumtion among a smaller group, leading to different levels of drunkeness for the same consumption

As to your friends, they are a reflection of your age, nationality, social position etc. Among my friends and family, this is not typical. I don't think either represents the whole truth.

Wolflikeme

How can people say it's not typically Irish to get drunk?! Any excuse in this country.

Take the races for example, in Galway, it was more about putting on a suit or a dress and getting trollied than it was for being at the races.

Funerals - piss up afterwards.
Any kind of sporting event - piss up before and after

And with sporting events, people will go to the pub and get drunk even if they've no interest in the sport which will mean they'll start drinking at 15:00 instead of 20:00 say.

Thursday before Good Friday - busiest day of the year for off licenses. God forbid we don't get enough booze in to get drunk on Good Friday (whether you agree with selling alcohol on GF or not).

St. Patrick's day - a joke at this stage the way people carry on.

Oh look the sun's out - let's go to the beach and get bladdered.

You stayed in last weekend? Better make up for it by getting hammered this weekend so - I know plenty of people who are like this.

The sun's out again? Let's take the afternoon off, go for a boozy lunch and stay out 'til 3am.

It is typically Irish. End of story.

Now I'm not saying everyone in Ireland is like this and I'd be guilty of using an excuse to have more than a few drinks as the next person so I'm not condemning Irish people here. Just saying.

Wolfe Tone

Wolflikeme wrote: »

How can people say it's not typically Irish to get drunk?! Any excuse in this country.

Take the races for example, in Galway, it was more about putting on a suit or a dress and getting trollied than it was for being at the races.

Funerals - piss up afterwards.
Any kind of sporting event - piss up before and after

And with sporting events, people will go to the pub and get drunk even if they've no interest in the sport which will mean they'll start drinking at 15:00 instead of 20:00 say.

Thursday before Good Friday - busiest day of the year for off licenses. God forbid we don't get enough booze in to get drunk on Good Friday (whether you agree with selling alcohol on GF or not).

St. Patrick's day - a joke at this stage the way people carry on.

Oh look the sun's out - let's go to the beach and get bladdered.

You stayed in last weekend? Better make up for it by getting hammered this weekend so - I know plenty of people who are like this.

The sun's out again? Let's take the afternoon off, go for a boozy lunch and stay out 'til 3am.

It is typically Irish. End of story.

Now I'm not saying everyone in Ireland is like this and I'd be guilty of using an excuse to have more than a few drinks as the next person so I'm not condemning Irish people here. Just saying.

And whats wrong with doing any of the above?

Logical Fallacy

IngazZagni wrote: »

What he says is true. "Typically" doesn't mean everybody.

Actually, the way he has used it, "Typically Irish" does mean everyone. I'm sure that's not what he meant but that is literally what it means within the structure and context he used.

stimpson

In fairness to him he's right. Most of us don't get up to this after a few beers

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/tcd-students-in-swastika-and-sex-allegations-2507466.html

Kevin Duffy

stimpson wrote: »

In fairness to him he's right. Most of us don't get up to this after a few beers

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/tcd-students-in-swastika-and-sex-allegations-2507466.html

Surely this contradicts his position, since it's an example of TCD students getting bladdered and doing obnoxious things, that being the very thing he was trying to say wasn't just about TCD students? Bit of an own goal really.

stimpson

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

Surely this contradicts his position, since it's an example of TCD students getting bladdered and doing obnoxious things, that being the very thing he was trying to say wasn't just about TCD students? Bit of an own goal really.

I was being *sarcastic*

Kevin Duffy

stimpson wrote: »

I was being *sarcastic*

Jesus, would you ever throw in an 'oul :rolleyes: or so and save me getting or

Kevin Duffy

Wolflikeme wrote: »

How can people say it's not typically Irish to get drunk?! Any excuse in this country.

Take the races for example, in Galway, it was more about putting on a suit or a dress and getting trollied than it was for being at the races.

Funerals - piss up afterwards.
Any kind of sporting event - piss up before and after

And with sporting events, people will go to the pub and get drunk even if they've no interest in the sport which will mean they'll start drinking at 15:00 instead of 20:00 say.

Thursday before Good Friday - busiest day of the year for off licenses. God forbid we don't get enough booze in to get drunk on Good Friday (whether you agree with selling alcohol on GF or not).

St. Patrick's day - a joke at this stage the way people carry on.

Oh look the sun's out - let's go to the beach and get bladdered.

You stayed in last weekend? Better make up for it by getting hammered this weekend so - I know plenty of people who are like this.

The sun's out again? Let's take the afternoon off, go for a boozy lunch and stay out 'til 3am.

It is typically Irish. End of story.

Now I'm not saying everyone in Ireland is like this and I'd be guilty of using an excuse to have more than a few drinks as the next person so I'm not condemning Irish people here. Just saying.

Plenty of examples of drinking which sometimes, but not always, turn into drunkeness.

thebullkf

Feck this , i'm goin for a pint.

Hazys

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

There speaks a man who's never been to any city or regional town in the UK on a weekend night, or to some of the pubs favoured by particular non-Irish nationalities, or to some of the house parties full of Lidl beer and cheap vodka which are attended by people of all nationalities all over Ireland on any given weekend.

Some Irish get bladdered, some don't. This applies in any country with liberal alcohol laws. Hardly news, is it?

But Ireland has more in the bladdered category than most other countries. Comparing us to the UK really isn't ok since they are as bad as us for binge drinking. Just because the UK does the same doesnt mean we dont have a problem. I think you are being incredibly nieve to think drinking isnt a bit OTT in Ireland and the UK.

TBH i'm probably the last person to be on a high horse here, i go out most Fridays and Saturdays and binge drink (throw in the odd all day session on Sunday). But i feel my binge drinking isnt causing any problems like the majority, i dont over do it...i dont get into fights or get sick on the street or end up in ER on a night out. I'm like the majority of binge drinkers, but with the culture of binge drinking you then get a minority that cause the social problems.

I live in Boston at the mo and drinking is way different over here. Drinking on nights out is very different (even for Boston). Compare going to the bar in a popular night club/pub in Ireland, the bar could be six deep. Compare this to going to a popular night/club in Boston, rarely would you find a bar that is jam packed (the club would be full they are just not at the bar) and you can generally get served within a few minutes. People dont seem to get as hammered here or have the need to get hammered as the main goal of the night out.

The average irish person drinks nearly twice as much as the average american:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/foo_alc_con-food-alcohol-consumption-current

Just my 2c.

IngazZagni

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

I'm not great at understanding statistics, but Ireland appears 16th on that list, not at the head of it. I have no idea how they arrive at the rankings mind you.
Even taking it at 16th, there are reasons why that would be spread out over a wide demographic - we can legally drink at 18 and alcohol is available to mean and women equally for example - which aren't true of every country on the list for cultural or legal reasons, so you may have highr consumtion among a smaller group, leading to different levels of drunkeness for the same consumption

As to your friends, they are a reflection of your age, nationality, social position etc. Among my friends and family, this is not typical. I don't think either represents the whole truth.

We are 4th on that list actually and one of those above us is Andorra which probably shouldn't be listed at all. Press the recorded button so it goes from highest consumption down. Other lists from World factbook puts us second behind the Czech Republic as well.

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Actually, the way he has used it, "Typically Irish" does mean everyone. I'm sure that's not what he meant but that is literally what it means within the structure and context he used.

I disagree. Typically has a similar meaning to commonly, frequently and usual. It does not and never has meant "everything/everyone.

CDfm

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

Surely this contradicts his position, since it's an example of TCD students getting bladdered and doing obnoxious things, that being the very thing he was trying to say wasn't just about TCD students? Bit of an own goal really.

Dylan Haskins own position has been to organise all age alcohol free events so he is likely to agree with Jessie J and really he stated his own position that he thinks it is typically Irish.

The news item was that Jessie J was shocked and he goes on to report that she is a non drinker herself as she has an irrergular heart beat and is a relative newcomer on the circuit ............

Having not yet done the summer festival circuit and with UK ball season not beginning until next month, it was apparent that the experience was a new and uncomfortable one for Jessie J.As her band plays out the last song, she leaves the stage immediately and shortly afterwards tweets:

His observation is that it is typically Irish but her description of the Ball is not one that Cinderella would attend

“Just came off stage at Trinity Ball. Probably one of the hardest gigs to date. To see so many people so drunk they couldn’t even stand. Girls unconcious and them literally trampling on each other.”

The last Ball like event I was that was this with my girlfriend.

Le Cabaret Cirque New Years Eve 2009
Thursday, December 31, 2009 at 8:00pm To Friday, January 1, 2010 at 2:30am
Location: Royal Hospital Kilmainham

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055743647

A very genteel affair - ladies in evening wear (some less than others) and besuited men.

In fact, drink was available but drunkeness was frowned upon & being a gentleman or a lady was the order of the day. Mr Edward Fossett whose Marquee it was, cordially welcomed the revellers. The Boards Contingent broke into rapturous applause when our very own Old Goat performed his " Captain Hook".

It was a "happening" and by the sounds of it the Trinity Ball was not.

Kevin Duffy

Hazys wrote: »

Comparing us to the UK really isn't ok since they are as bad as us for binge drinking. Just because the UK does the same doesnt mean we dont have a problem. I think you are being incredibly nieve to think drinking isnt a bit OTT in Ireland and the UK.

The average irish person drinks nearly twice as much as the average american:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/foo_alc_con-food-alcohol-consumption-current

Just my 2c.

Comparing us to the UK in the context I did it is perfectly valid. The "typically Irish" part of the comment in the first post is disingenuous at best as it ignores other nationalities patterns of consumption.

As to me be being "incredibly nieve" (sic), do I get to make stupid personally critical comments to you now?

Kevin Duffy

IngazZagni wrote: »

We are 4th on that list actually and one of those above us is Andorra which probably shouldn't be listed at all. Press the recorded button so it goes from highest consumption down. Other lists from World factbook puts us second behind the Czech Republic as well.

Like I said, I wouldn't be the best at understanding statistics, but Ireland is 15th when the table is ordered by total. Perhaps I just don't don't understand the distinction between "recorded" and "total", but total would seem the most significant statistic in deciding who drinks most by nation.

Kevin Duffy

CDfm wrote: »

The news item was that Jessie J was shocked and he goes on to report that she is a non drinker herself as she has an irrergular heart beat and is a relative newcomer on the circuit ............
.

In the followup to the tweet, when she gave her medical background to the non-drinking, she also said "And it's not just in Ireland, its everywhere".

Hazys

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

Comparing us to the UK in the context I did it is perfectly valid. The "typically Irish" part of the comment in the first post is disingenuous at best as it ignores other nationalities patterns of consumption.

As to me be being "incredibly nieve" (sic), do I get to make stupid personally critical comments to you now?

Fair enough if you point was he should have said "Being drunk is typically Irish and British". Anyway i got the impression you were saying that drinking culture is not OTT in Ireland because its same in the UK.

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

Like I said, I wouldn't be the best at understanding statistics, but Ireland is 15th when the table is ordered by total. Perhaps I just don't don't understand the distinction between "recorded" and "total", but total would seem the most significant statistic in deciding who drinks most by nation.

You can prove anything with stats, which is true if you take them at face value. So be wary of any stats soembody shows you because there is no such thing as a perfect stat to end an argument. Stats generally only show one single aspect of a situation and rarely shows the full picture.

Even the stats i posted can only be taken with a pinch of salt:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/foo_alc_con-food-alcohol-consumption-current

If you took those stats at face value, Luxembourg and France are the biggest lager lout nations which is not true. It obviously ignores France's wine culture and Luxembourg's small but rich population.

Even the stat i quoted "The average irish person drinks nearly twice as much as the average american" is only a half truth especially since i was comparing Boston to Ireland. America is so huge with many different cultures its not an exact comparison. Boston i can only presume is well above the national average for alcohol while somewhere like Utah would be well below the national average.

donal_cam

It is something to be highly ashamed of. I've lost count of the times that drinking too much has caused me to do something I would live to be ashamed of. I've lost ties with people over sh1tetalking when drunk, made a fool of myself and done any number of things I wouldn't consider doing when sober, especially towards the opposite sex. It's not an alcohol thing per se, more an overconsumption and bravado thing. If you can stay steady on your feet while others are collapsing around you it's judged something to be proud of. Well, not to me it isn't. I don't say this as a prude but as someone who's supped from the cup of life enough to know what's healthy and what's not. Our current national psychosis (to borrow a leaf from Brendan Behan) has alot to do with our attitude towards alcohol. In moderation it's fine- I love nothing better than to watch a good game of cricket with a couple of glasses of flavoured vodka or whiskey, which imho is how alcohol should be enjoyed.

CDfm

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

In the followup to the tweet, when she gave her medical background to the non-drinking, she also said "And it's not just in Ireland, its everywhere".

PR damage limitation anyone.

Her social group may not behave that way as she is so shocked.

The girls who were passed out and trampled are her peers so is it fair comment.

IngazZagni

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

Like I said, I wouldn't be the best at understanding statistics, but Ireland is 15th when the table is ordered by total. Perhaps I just don't don't understand the distinction between "recorded" and "total", but total would seem the most significant statistic in deciding who drinks most by nation.

Ugh okay here is a more simple version, referring to beer consumption only.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_beer_consumption_per_capita

Now you can have other people on here saying you can't take these at face value or whatever but these facts do tell a story. I mean this alcohol is being consumed, it has to go somewhere and I'd hazard a guess that most of it is drunk by people. Again, not everyone but typically by most yes.

Kevin Duffy

IngazZagni wrote: »

Ugh okay here is a more simple version, referring to beer consumption only.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_beer_consumption_per_capita

Now you can have other people on here saying you can't take these at face value or whatever but these facts do tell a story. I mean this alcohol is being consumed, it has to go somewhere and I'd hazard a guess that most of it is drunk by people. Again, not everyone but typically by most yes.

So we're high on beer consumption, so what? It's not the only thing you can get drunk on and the thread was about a comment on drunkeness, not just beer consumption. You can't just change the set of stats you use to suit your argument. The first table says that in total consumption of alcohol Ireland comes 15th, consumption and drunkeness, while obviously related, are not the same thing, so I still think the comment that "it's typically Irish" was off message and your stats don't change that.

Some Irish people get drunk, some don't drink at all, some of the drunk people are not Irish, some drink so far above the average in a binge that our stats are meaningless, some people can get smashed and be no hassle or not look out of it, some people can't walk into a pub without becoming obnoxious and a hassle to everyone and they're eyecatching when we see them. Typical Irish? Which one?

IngazZagni

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

So we're high on beer consumption, so what? It's not the only thing you can get drunk on and the thread was about a comment on drunkeness, not just beer consumption. You can't just change the set of stats you use to suit your argument. The first table says that in total consumption of alcohol Ireland comes 15th, consumption and drunkeness, while obviously related, are not the same thing, so I still think the comment that "it's typically Irish" was off message and your stats don't change that.

Some Irish people get drunk, some don't drink at all, some of the drunk people are not Irish, some drink so far above the average in a binge that our stats are meaningless, some people can get smashed and be no hassle or not look out of it, some people can't walk into a pub without becoming obnoxious and a hassle to everyone and they're eyecatching when we see them. Typical Irish? Which one?

It's blatantly obvious that this Country has a drinking culture. Even without stats that would and is well known. I'm not stating an opinion on whether that's good or bad I'm just stating that's how it is. I'm basing this argument on my travels around the Country and talking to mates and friends of friends. It's "typical" to get an answer of "lets get pissed" after asking what should we do today?
Again I stress that is that representing ALL of Ireland? Of course not but it does sum up the majority.

Kevin Duffy

IngazZagni wrote: »

Of course not but it does sum up the majority.

Can you back that up? I mean other than using your friends as an example.

IngazZagni

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

Can you back that up? I mean other than using your friends as an example.

What else could I give other than facts and opinions of my friends and friends of friends which I've already given?
But you know what, I don't care if you do or don't want to believe it.

Kevin Duffy

IngazZagni wrote: »

What else could I give other than facts and opinions of my friends and friends of friends which I've already given?
But you know what, I don't care if you do or don't want to believe it. /end

So no, you can't back it up then. Grand, thanks.

IngazZagni

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

So no, you can't back it up then. Grand, thanks.

I'll tell you what, can you back up your theory that Ireland is a sober nation who only drink a handful when out on the town. Show me that the majority of Irish Adults don't get drunk. Oh and facts, stats and friends opinions will not do. Thanks...

Kevin Duffy

IngazZagni wrote: »

I'll tell you what, can you back up your theory that Ireland is a sober nation who only drink a handful when out on the town. Show me that the majority of Irish Adults don't get drunk. Oh and facts, stats and friends opinions will not do. Thanks...

I didn't say Ireland was "a sober nation", I'm saying the idea that drunkeness=typical Irish is wrong. I also never said that the whole nation only drinks a handful on the town, I clearly said some people binge, more than once.
I haven't offered friends opinions, because they would only be opinions and because one group of friends does not represent a whole nation or culture, including your social circle. The stats you offered didn't actually back up what you were saying, or the contention at the centre of the thread and you haven't offered any facts, just your opinion. When I asked you to back up your conclusion and/or to offer an interpretation of the stats that backed it up, you couldn't.

CDfm

Personal experience is important, 25 % of Irish Adults do not drink.

http://ec.europa.eu/health/alcohol/policy/country_profiles/ireland_country_profile.pdf

Drinking by young people is on the up and people start drinking earlier -
Alcoholism, Alcohol Abuse and Heavy Drinking:
Irish College Males’ Perspectives on Alcohol-related Problems link here

http://www.ul.ie/sociology/socheolas/vol2/1/Yichen%20Jiang.pdf

Background
The third highest rate of drunkenness in Europe has been
reported for Irish teenagers, with only teenagers from
Britain and the Isle of Man getting drunk more frequently
[1]. In the past two decades, the average age of onset of
drinking has dropped dramatically in Ireland by 3.5 years
to 15 years [2]. Mongan et al reported an increase in the
number of children presenting to A&E for alcohol related
reasons in the past decade [3].
Early onset drinking is associated with a range of negative
outcomes, including increased risk of later alcohol
dependence [4-7], increased risk of drug abuse [8,9],
criminal behaviour [10], sexual risk behaviour [11] and
suicidal behaviour [12]. Recent research has also highlighted
the negative impact which regular alcohol use can
have on the developing adolescent brain [13].

http://www.lenus.ie/hse/bitstream/10147/118911/2/1471-2458-10-297.pdf

IngazZagni

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

I didn't say Ireland was "a sober nation", I'm saying the idea that drunkeness=typical Irish is wrong. I also never said that the whole nation only drinks a handful on the town, I clearly said some people binge, more than once.
I haven't offered friends opinions, because they would only be opinions and because one group of friends does not represent a whole nation or culture, including your social circle. The stats you offered didn't actually back up what you were saying, or the contention at the centre of the thread and you haven't offered any facts, just your opinion. When I asked you to back up your conclusion and/or to offer an interpretation of the stats that backed it up, you couldn't.

And neither can you it seems. This Country has a drinking culture, can anyone argue that? Did this all start because of an issue with the word "typical"? I will go back and answer the OP once again in that I agreed with Haskins comment. It's not just TCD students, it's UCD, WIT, UL, UCC students as well. It's also a huge proportion of other Irish people. I'm sure if Haskins could clarify his comment he would have meant it's a culture of "most" as in 50% plus. Simple as...

Kevin Duffy

IngazZagni wrote: »

And neither can you it seems. This Country has a drinking culture, can anyone argue that? Did this all start because of an issue with the word "typical"? I will go back and answer the OP once again in that I agreed with Haskins comment. It's not just TCD students, it's UCD, WIT, UL, UCC students as well. It's also a huge proportion of other Irish people. I'm sure if Haskins could clarify his comment he would have meant it's a culture of "most" as in 50% plus. Simple as...

Yeh, I can back it up, not that you asked before now. I’m taking the stats from memory and rounding them.
From the stats above, taking 2002 as the peak drinking year, an average of all adults (men and women, 18 to 85, presented as two separate groups as there is no overall figure in the report IIRC) binge drinking gives a figure of roughly 29%. The total for abstainers is 25%. There are roughly 4% more binge drinkers that non-drinkers and approx. 46% of all drinkers are somewhere in the middle, probably described as moderate drinkers.
So, 71% (roughly) of all Irish adults are not binge drinking. Over 2/3. Almost ¾. That’s the “typical” part of his comment blown up.
The Irish part – we come 15th for overall consumption according to your stats. And the total consumption has been falling in recent years. Again, his comment is not borne out by the stats.
Do we have a problem with some people’s attitude to alcohol and drunkenness? Yes, we do. Can we say it’s typically Irish? Not according to the stats. Can we say “it's a culture of "most" as in 50% plus. Simple as...”? Not without egg on your face, by a factor of 21%.

CDfm

We had a discussion in the History & Heritage Forum about it.

A bit "folkloreish" but there are a few nuggets in it and a sociologist would probably explain agrarian societies better than we did.But in the 19th century I doubt if subsistence farmers were on the lash all the time.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056207209

If you are making statistical adjustments how do our young people compare with other cultures demographically.

Like if 50 % of our population is under 25 and young people drink more then comparing our consumption or patterns with a country with 25% of the population under 25 will be correct statistics but not valid.

Also, of we compare our Trinity Ball to say a Madrid comparison as opposed to a British one -who also binge drink - we leave ourselves off the hook.

And so - to not leave ourselves off the hook how do we measure it.

Are there specific alcohol related illnesses or deaths we can compare. Does it impact on suicides etc.

Is our experience better or worse than the Euro average.

IngazZagni

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

Yeh, I can back it up, not that you asked before now. I’m taking the stats from memory and rounding them.
From the stats above, taking 2002 as the peak drinking year, an average of all adults (men and women, 18 to 85, presented as two separate groups as there is no overall figure in the report IIRC) binge drinking gives a figure of roughly 29%. The total for abstainers is 25%. There are roughly 4% more binge drinkers that non-drinkers and approx. 46% of all drinkers are somewhere in the middle, probably described as moderate drinkers.
So, 71% (roughly) of all Irish adults are not binge drinking. Over 2/3. Almost ¾. That’s the “typical” part of his comment blown up.
The Irish part – we come 15th for overall consumption according to your stats. And the total consumption has been falling in recent years. Again, his comment is not borne out by the stats.
Do we have a problem with some people’s attitude to alcohol and drunkenness? Yes, we do. Can we say it’s typically Irish? Not according to the stats. Can we say “it's a culture of "most" as in 50% plus. Simple as...”? Not without egg on your face, by a factor of 21%.

I did ask before. Did I ever mention binge drinking? No. Do you have to binge drink to get drunk? No. Therefore your stats are meaningless. How many people go out not having the intention of getting drunk, yet they do and wake up regretting it saying they won't do that again... but one week later they do the exact same thing. Those sort of people, who would count as a lot wouldn't be factored into those "stats".

My stats do not show Ireland as 15th, it's 4th under official data, unrecorded data is assumed data. But for example Moldova having 10.0 in unrecorded data is ridiculous and I don't know where they came up with that.

Yes alcohol consumption has been decreasing overall over the past few years and at a fair rate although youth consumption is on the up. To still have the figures we do after that drop tells you something.

One of your stats is amazing and even I didn't realize it was that high. 29% of people whose SOLE PURPOSE is to get wasted. Highest in the EU for starters. That's very nearly one in three. That's incredible. Factor in all the other people who get drunk but don't binge drink per say..

We don't have a drinking culture? It's not "typically Irish"? It's just a phrase man, it doesn't have scientific meaning. You can't sum up an entire opinion with a twitter style comment.

tbh

lads - this isn't a subject that needs us to get all confrontational - lets dial down the agression a little. It's ok to disagree.

Kevin Duffy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Duffy

Yeh, I can back it up, not that you asked before now. I’m taking the stats from memory and rounding them.
From the stats above, taking 2002 as the peak drinking year, an average of all adults (men and women, 18 to 85, presented as two separate groups as there is no overall figure in the report IIRC) binge drinking gives a figure of roughly 29%. The total for abstainers is 25%. There are roughly 4% more binge drinkers that non-drinkers and approx. 46% of all drinkers are somewhere in the middle, probably described as moderate drinkers.
So, 71% (roughly) of all Irish adults are not binge drinking. Over 2/3. Almost ¾. That’s the “typical” part of his comment blown up.
The Irish part – we come 15th for overall consumption according to your stats. And the total consumption has been falling in recent years. Again, his comment is not borne out by the stats.
Do we have a problem with some people’s attitude to alcohol and drunkenness? Yes, we do. Can we say it’s typically Irish? Not according to the stats. Can we say “it's a culture of "most" as in 50% plus. Simple as...”? Not without egg on your face, by a factor of 21%.

Did I ever mention binge drinking? No. Do you have to binge drink to get drunk? No. Therefore your stats are meaningless. How many people go out not having the intention of getting drunk, yet they do and wake up regretting it saying they won't do that again... but one week later they do the exact same thing. Those sort of people, who would count as a lot wouldn't be factored into those "stats".

Huh? For a start, binge drinking is the very behaviour the thread is about. So some people do it more than once and don’t learn whatever lesson you think they should have – so what? And they would be factored into the stats, which are cited for a binge drink within the last week. Also, the low level of definition of a binge is such that most healthy adults would have to pass it to get drunk.

My stats do not show Ireland as 15th, it's 4th under official data, unrecorded data is assumed data. But for example Moldova having 10.0 in unrecorded data is ridiculous and I don't know where they came up with that.

Right, so you’re now arguing with the stats you provided yourself. If you don’t accept the Moldovan stats, you can’t accept the rest of it either. Either the survey is good, or it’s not. Ireland is 15th in the table for total consumption, no matter how much you wish it was somewhere else to suit your argument.

One of your stats is amazing and even I didn't realize it was that high. 29% of people whose SOLE PURPOSE is to get wasted. Highest in the EU for starters. That's very nearly one in three. That's incredible. Factor in all the other people who get drunk but don't binge drink per say..

Who said their “sole purpose” was to get wasted? Not sure of the definition of binge they use in the survey, but it’s usually a pretty low level, about 4 to 5 units qualifying as a binge. Do you have a stat for “all the other people who get drunk but don't binge drink per say”, or do you just wish that there were lots of people drunk on less than 4 or 5 units ‘cos they’d suit your argument?
29% is high in your opinion, but is still well below the 50% you set as a standard for "typical" and below what most people think of as the meaning "typical".

We don't have a drinking culture? It's not "typically Irish"? It's just a phrase man, it doesn't have scientific meaning. You can't sum up an entire opinion with a twitter style comment.

Er, you’re now dismissing his comment and saying it was baseless, which is contrary to your argument up to now. Make up your mind.

Kevin Duffy

tbh wrote: »

lads - this isn't a subject that needs us to get all confrontational - lets dial down the agression a little. It's ok to disagree.

Didn't realise it appeared confrontational, apologies. Very interested in the subject and was aiming to address the argument only.

CDfm

I imagine Dylan Haskins will be of the view that for Irish venues it is "normal" and part of how gigs get run. If thats the usual is that the culture ?

Maybe Jessie J doesnt get out enough and Cinderella wasn't expecting to perform to a mosh pit.

theboat

Ok, figure I'll throw my own personal experience into the mix.

I've been living in France since last september, while doing my Erasmus year. As a result, I've met students from all over the world. In my experience, the students I have met from America, Canada, Australia, Germany, France and England drink in very similar ways to Irish students on a night out.
A considerable proportion of these aim to get drunk, as seems to be in question here, in relation to Ireland. So, as far as I can tell, it's a common thing among students in general to get drunk on a regular basis.

That said, Ireland certainly has a reputation around the world as being a country of particularly heavy drinkers. Everybody I've met since coming to France has mentioned it (though, it must be said, not always as something negative).

For me though, the difference that I've noticed between 'drunk' in Ireland and 'drunk' elsewhere is that there seems often to be an unpleasantness or even an aggression that appears when Irish students get drunk which I have noticed a lot less here in France. I have seen one fight as a result of drink in the last 7 months here, as opposed to countless scraps on nights out in Dublin. There's much less of the 'messy drunk', in my experience.
I also noticed this at the Sziget music festival in Budapest, which attracts people from all over Europe. People there were getting really drunk, but I never once saw a fight, or people getting sick all over the place etc. Whereas, if you look at the likes of Harcourt St. or Camden St. as clubs and pubs close, the place is usually in a ridiculous state, as are many of the people!

Of course I know plenty of people who don't adhere to this image of Ireland, but I also know many who do, so even if it's not "typically" Irish, it's certainly common enough to be, in my opinion, a serious problem.

CDfm

I just wonder how much of that comes down to policing and enforcement.

IngazZagni

theboat wrote: »

Ok, figure I'll throw my own personal experience into the mix.

I've been living in France since last september, while doing my Erasmus year. As a result, I've met students from all over the world. In my experience, the students I have met from America, Canada, Australia, Germany, France and England drink in very similar ways to Irish students on a night out.
A considerable proportion of these aim to get drunk, as seems to be in question here, in relation to Ireland. So, as far as I can tell, it's a common thing among students in general to get drunk on a regular basis.

That said, Ireland certainly has a reputation around the world as being a country of particularly heavy drinkers. Everybody I've met since coming to France has mentioned it (though, it must be said, not always as something negative).

Agreed. I lived in Florida for a year as I said and the general consensus was that it was "typically Irish" to go out and get drunk. But that generally wasn't meant as a bad thing.

theboat wrote: »

Of course I know plenty of people who don't adhere to this image of Ireland, but I also know many who do, so even if it's not "typically" Irish, it's certainly common enough to be, in my opinion, a serious problem.

Agreed, and that's the point I was trying to put across as well. Remember there is a difference between being drunk and being messy drunk. I would say the majourity of those TCD students were drunk but only a minority where in the "messy stage" that was the whole point of the original comments. So it all boils down to what we define as "drunk" and what that "typical" comment was referring to.

theboat

CDfm wrote: »

I just wonder how much of that comes down to policing and enforcement.

Yeah, it's hard to know, I guess.
In France, drinking in the street is allowed, and lots of clubs stay open much later than in Ireland. The fact that neither of these are allowed in Ireland doesn't seem to have made an impact on levels of drunkenness. Maybe, like with many things, restricting the licensing laws has just had a reverse-psychological effect. I don't know!
As for policing, I haven't noticed police having a more obvious presence in France than in Ireland. That said, you certainly wouldn't pick a fight with a French cop...