AIB to write off Mortgage Debt

thewing

Max out the credit card! Get as big a car loan as you can!!! If you're fiscally irresponsible, you'll be forgiven!!! YAY! BEST COUNTRY EVER - FACT!

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/hope-of-debt-writeoff-for-mortgage-holders-2617754.html

CommuterIE

thewing wrote: »

Max out the credit card! Get as big a car loan as you can!!! If you're fiscally irresponsible, you'll be forgiven!!! YAY! BEST COUNTRY EVER - FACT!

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/hope-of-debt-writeoff-for-mortgage-holders-2617754.html

I don't agree with this whatsoever!

CreepingDeath

So the people who can pay for their mortgages are paying for all the losers who can't. I'm sickened.

I think the bank should owe a percentage of each customers house who they bailed out, so they can recoup it if the house is sold.

Bullseye1

CreepingDeath wrote: »

So the people who can pay for their mortgages are paying for all the losers who can't. I'm sickened.

I think the bank should owe a percentage of each customers house who they bailed out, so they can recoup it if the house is sold.

This may very well happen down the road.

CommuterIE

CreepingDeath wrote: »

So the people who can pay for their mortgages are paying for all the losers who can't. I'm sickened.

I think the bank should owe a percentage of each customers house who they bailed out, so they can recoup it if the house is sold.

Taxpayers will bail out people who took out mortgages they couldn't realistically afford in the first place during the boom.

Delightful!

TheZohanS

Banana Republic at it's finest.

thewing

There's a line and this crosses it for me....

CommuterIE

If they really want to help the country, would it not dawn on them to pump all that money back into the exchequer?? This would be billions of euro going to shave a few quid off mortgages :mad:

danbohan

thewing wrote: »

Max out the credit card! Get as big a car loan as you can!!! If you're fiscally irresponsible, you'll be forgiven!!! YAY! BEST COUNTRY EVER - FACT!

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/hope-of-debt-writeoff-for-mortgage-holders-2617754.html

i had mortgage with aib in the 80s , its paid off now, i am entitled to a refund on my interest payments? , lovellleeeee

phasers

Damn I wish our mortgage was with AIB, stupid Ulster Bank and their stability

CommuterIE

danbohan wrote: »

i had mortgage with aib in the 80s , its paid off now, i am entitled to a refund on my interest payments? , lovellleeeee

nope

Wibbs

So hang on... as well as bailing out gamblers on the financial markets (which is still the worst aspect of this), we're now gonna be bailing out the twat/silly person/naive eejit(delete as applicable) down the street who because they worked in a beige cubicle thought they were millionaires and deserved a new 4X4, a kitchen the size of a tennis court and a gaff in Provence? Good fcuk. Meh doesn't altogether surprise me at this stage.

thebigbiffo

I'm with PTSB so i'm totally against this - it's disgraceful, terrible, shocking etc etc etc.

if PTSB decide to forgive some of my mortgage it would be fantastic, brilliant, a huge boon to the economy etc etc etc.

danbohan

CommuterIE wrote: »

nope

spoilsport!,

I WANT MY REFUND TOO !

CreepingDeath

I'm with the EBS, and it is/was a mutual society.

A few years back they had the option of demutualising and giving all the account holders/mortgage holders about €13k each.

I wonder, when EBS is absorbed by AIB, if EBS mortgage holders will get shares in AIB ? A long shot... but who knows...

nattyguest

Unbelievable. I can't wait for the next surprise this country has to offer.

Sand Wedge

I have no problem with debt forgiveness. As long as it is a condition that someone on a tracker and as a result of debt forgiveness they have to come off tracker and on to fixed or variable mortages.

Ran a scenario of how this would work.

Tracker mortgage of €400,000 over 30 years (say currently at 1.5%)
Total monthly repayment €1,385
Interest included in repayment €490.

With Debt forgivess of €100,000 i.e 25% of original and swithced on to variable/fixed at rate of 4%.
New Mortgage is now for €300,000.
Total monthly repayment is €1,450.
Interest included in repayment €1,000.

As a result of the debt forgiveness the banks will make more money over life of mortgage. The mortgage holder will pay roughly the same repayment now as they would before but now they would have the option of selling there home and clearing most of mortgage.

theteal

thebigbiffo wrote: »

I'm with PTSB so i'm totally against this - it's disgraceful, terrible, shocking etc etc etc.

if PTSB decide to forgive some of my mortgage it would be fantastic, brilliant, a huge boon to the economy etc etc etc.

You having trouble making payments? You in arrears?. . .no? sorry, no debt forgiveness for you. now, your next door neighbour on the other hand. . .

what a splendid idea!

thebigbiffo

Sand Wedge wrote: »

I have no problem with debt forgiveness. As long as it is a condition that someone on a tracker and as a result of debt forgiveness they have to come off tracker and on to fixed or variable mortages.

Ran a scenario of how this would work.

Tracker mortgage of €400,000 over 30 years (say currently at 1.5%)
Total monthly repayment €1,385
Interest included in repayment €490.

With Debt forgivess of €100,000 i.e 25% of original and swithced on to variable/fixed at rate of 4%.
New Mortgage is now for €300,000.
Total monthly repayment is €1,450.
Interest included in repayment €1,000.

As a result of the debt forgiveness the banks will make more money over life of mortgage. The mortgage holder will pay roughly the same repayment now as they would before but now they would have the option of selling there home and clearing most of mortgage.

i'm on a tracker - and it's going to take something like this to make me give it up.

squod

Nationalised bank AIB said it was considering using some of its latest €13.3bn taxpayers' bailout to write off the debt of struggling borrowers.

This sounds like socialism to me. More of them feckin' lefties Pat. Them and their stupih leftie ideas.

Well, you could have just voted for someone sensible like. Little apples.....

Minstrel27

What absolute bull****. Why the **** am I contributing to this bail out for people that were too stupid to take out a mortgage they cannot afford.

I would prefer it if those who avail of "debt forgivness" are put onto a higher income tax rate as a way to reclaim the money in the future if there is ever a recovery.

stovelid

thebigbiffo wrote: »

I'm with PTSB so i'm totally against this - it's disgraceful, terrible, shocking etc etc etc.

if PTSB decide to forgive some of my mortgage it would be fantastic, brilliant, a huge boon to the economy etc etc etc.

Same.

CommuterIE

What other country in the world has done something like this!? I'm baffled that this notion is being entertained

Mr Benevolent

This is a PR stunt to get people off their tracker mortgages. The most they'll take off the mortgage is 5%.

newspower

Why would you want shares in AIB? We already own the White Elephant. We were all being offered big loans for years from these banks so am I now going to have pay these peoples mortgages ( people who overspent, adding holidays, Cars, Kitchens etc. on to overpriced properties with 30 year Mortgages) even though I was prudent. What is this country becoming? Aaaargh!:(

Tazz T

Confab wrote: »

This is a PR stunt to get people off their tracker mortgages. The most they'll take off the mortgage is 5%.

Agree. AIB ain't gonna do this for nothing. The thing is how you'll end up paying more than before, so if you couldn't meet your payment before how do you meet it after.

subway

cant pay the bill, forfeit the asset. its simple ?!?
its what every other country in the world does.

the irish model is - cant pay the bill, keep the asset, the taxpayers will cover it.
whats that, the bank is still losing money? well let a few thousand staff go to reduce costs.

cant have jack and mary degraded into renting like the animals. jack and mary are HOMEOWNERS. all you ****wits out there with jobs better keep paying your ****ing rent and taxes. but if you cant pay your rent dont worry, the govt will give jack and mary the money so they wont force you onto the street and we will raise taxes on the rest of the productive ***** out there who think they are better than HOMEOWNERS!!<>!>!>!>!
dont worry little renter, we will look adter you (ie, ourselves, while blasting you with piss)

syklops

Nationalised bank AIB said it was considering using some of its latest €13.3bn taxpayers' bailout to write off the debt of struggling borrowers.

...

It began with the announcement by AIB that it would seek to slash 2,000 jobs by the end of next year, as it posted record losses of €10.4bn.

It posted losses of 10.4bn, and got a bailout of 13.3bn, so what happened to the other 2.9bn?

Spudmonkey

If I pay part of someone's mortgage, do I get part of their house?

stovelid

newspower wrote: »

Why would you want shares in AIB? We already own the White Elephant. We were all being offered big loans for years from these banks so am I now going to have pay these peoples mortgages ( people who overspent, adding holidays, Cars, Kitchens etc. on to overpriced properties with 30 year Mortgages) even though I was prudent. What is this country becoming? Aaaargh!:(

Woo-hoo

swordofislam

I am in favour of complete debt forgiveness provided that the person 1 loses the house 2 genuinely cannot pay the mortgage. You can't get blood from a turnip people. Though if Ireland developed a bloody turnip filled with meat that vegetarians could eat that would be step 1 to getting us out of this mess.

Rookster

Not sure how this would stand up legally. They are effectively changing the terms of the contract they have with a select few customers. Surely all the rest of us compliant mortgage holders should then also tear up our contract with AIB.

CreepingDeath

Sand Wedge wrote: »

I have no problem with debt forgiveness. As long as it is a condition that someone on a tracker and as a result of debt forgiveness they have to come off tracker and on to fixed or variable mortages.

Ran a scenario of how this would work.

Tracker mortgage of €400,000 over 30 years (say currently at 1.5%)
Total monthly repayment €1,385
Interest included in repayment €490.

With Debt forgivess of €100,000 i.e 25% of original and swithced on to variable/fixed at rate of 4%.
New Mortgage is now for €300,000.
Total monthly repayment is €1,450.
Interest included in repayment €1,000.

As a result of the debt forgiveness the banks will make more money over life of mortgage. The mortgage holder will pay roughly the same repayment now as they would before but now they would have the option of selling there home and clearing most of mortgage.

Yeah, I don't think you get the fact that they can't afford €1,385 now, so
giving them debt forgiveness and increasing their monthly payments isn't going to work.

starbelgrade

Wibbs wrote: »

So hang on... as well as bailing out gamblers on the financial markets (which is still the worst aspect of this), we're now gonna be bailing out the twat/silly person/naive eejit(delete as applicable) down the street who because they worked in a beige cubicle thought they were millionaires and deserved a new 4X4, a kitchen the size of a tennis court and a gaff in Provence? Good fcuk. Meh doesn't altogether surprise me at this stage.

Bailing out gamblers on the financial markets is one thing. Providing mortgage owners some financial relief is another thing entirely different.

Many people bought very modest houses during the boom. Yes, they were overpriced & yes, they were probably stupid to buy them at the time, but at the time, they could also afford to pay for them.

Things are different now - some people are jobless, others have taken paycuts, some households have taken both. The fact that they are saddled with debt, crippling interest rises & properties that are worth half their original value, to me, is enough punishment.

A small amount of interest relief would mean that they have a few extra quid to spend, which for the most part would go straight back into the local economy. Hardly a bad thing.

It's no different than what we already have in place with the likes of mortgage interest relief. Or indeed rent supplements to people on social welfare.

In fact, almost every aspect of everyone's lives is funded by taxes in some way. If you go to school or college, you are "costing the taxpayer money". If you use public transport, roads, public water mains, public sewers, hospitals etc you are "costing the taxpayer money".

But you don't see people up in arms about that.

It's only the people who live in beige boxes, who all drive 4x4s, have kitchens the size of planets & took 4,000 holidays a year that should pay their way.

Liam Byrne

So yet again those of us who borrowed responsibly and meet our obligations get shafted?

Sickening!

If someone's mortgage amount was realistic and they've lost their job, then I'm OK with a renegotiation, but otherwise it's us paying for their bad choices!

It really, really is a sickening country when people who act responsibly are (a) told they don't exist by the "it's everyone's fault" brigade and then (b) forced to foot the bill for their disastrous choices on the double by a STATE company!

This HAS to be unconstitutional! It HAS to!

thewing

You can either do this for everyone, or no one. Not on a case-by-case basis.

If you think that only people with a 'modest' (definition?) home who is struggling will be bailed out you are wrong

It will be the GP with a private practice who was given a 30k a month mortgage on the 18th tee by his banker buddy that will get bailed out.

I am sorry, but at some stage in this country we need to say we are capitalist or socialist.

We have been sold the bank bailout on the basis that it would have brought the country down

For the rest of us who can't afford to pay the mortgage - daft.ie, property to rent is your next stop......

hardCopy

independent wrote:

The AIB debt forgiveness plan was one of two radical schemes mooted yesterday to revive the property market.

Wahay, revive the property market! Here comes the boom again!

sbsquarepants

Sand Wedge wrote: »

I have no problem with debt forgiveness. As long as it is a condition that someone on a tracker and as a result of debt forgiveness they have to come off tracker and on to fixed or variable mortages.

Ran a scenario of how this would work.

Tracker mortgage of €400,000 over 30 years (say currently at 1.5%)
Total monthly repayment €1,385
Interest included in repayment €490.

With Debt forgivess of €100,000 i.e 25% of original and swithced on to variable/fixed at rate of 4%.
New Mortgage is now for €300,000.
Total monthly repayment is €1,450.
Interest included in repayment €1,000.

As a result of the debt forgiveness the banks will make more money over life of mortgage. The mortgage holder will pay roughly the same repayment now as they would before but now they would have the option of selling there home and clearing most of mortgage.

So someone who can't pay €1,385 a month will be be "helped out" by being told to pay €1450?

Does anyone else see the problem with this plan?

I'm in two minds about the whole debt forgiveness thing. I think in principle it's a good thing, a safety net of sorts should you fall on hard times, but the reality is it will just be exploited by the usual suspects to get something for nothing and there is way too much of that in this country as it is.
Basically, if Mr Gobshíte down the road, gets to walk away from his debts, someone else has to pay them - and i for one, don't want that someone to be me, i'm having enough trouble paying my own!

subway

starbelgrade wrote: »

Many people bought very modest houses during the boom. Yes, they were overpriced & yes, they were probably stupid to buy them at the time, but at the time, they could also afford to pay for them.

Things are different now - some people are jobless, others have taken paycuts, some households have taken both. The fact that they are saddled with debt, crippling interest rises & properties that are worth half their original value, to me, is enough punishment.

A small amount of interest relief would mean that they have a few extra quid to spend, which for the most part would go straight back into the local economy. Hardly a bad thing.

It's no different than what we already have in place with the likes of mortgage interest relief. Or indeed rent supplements to people on social welfare.

But you don't see people up in arms about that.

It's only the people who live in beige boxes, who all drive 4x4s, have kitchens the size of planets & took 4,000 holidays a year that should pay their way.

deleting the 2 strawmen arguments (if you dont mind)
i am up in arms about the 2 things in bold that "no one is up in arms about" so i guess that defeats that argument...

personally, i dont agree with dribs & drabs given the scale of the crisis. if someone cant afford their mortgage then a few quid isnt going to help them pay off the massive burden around their neck.
what people need is to be realeased fully from the burden and to start again.
that means "lose the asset / lose the debt" and start again from scratch.

renting is better than continuing on and eventually suiciding or running away (you aint got any other option at 35, unemployed and €1m of debt)
it doesnt cost the tax payer any more than neccesary and it has less of an impact on moral hazard

inforfun

Spudmonkey wrote: »

If I pay part of someone's mortgage, do I get part of their house?

Yes, it is a bit like what i do.
I dont have kids but child support is paid to others from my tax.
So i just borrow someones 18 year old daughter every now and then.

themadchef

Listening to this on Pat Kenny now....

It's kinda funny how people are outraged at this. Wait a year or two till we finally go bankrupt as a country, save the outrage for that.

We are screwed, anyone crunching the numbers will tell you, without a huge intervention or indeed forgiveness of our Irelands debt on the whole we aew doomed... (love that word, not neary dramatic enough for Boards )

sbsquarepants

subway wrote: »

renting is better than continuing on and eventually suiciding or running away (you aint got any other option at 35, unemployed and €1m of debt)

Jesus, exagerate much!
How many people like you describe do you reckon there are out there?
At a guess i'd say they make up a very similar percentage of the population as mermaids and yetis!:D

subway

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Jesus, exagerate much!
How many people like you describe do you reckon there are out there?
At a guess i'd say they make up a very similar percentage of the population as mermaids and yetis!:D

grand so, who are we baling out then? and, yes, i like to give the examples

Wibbs

starbelgrade wrote: »

Bailing out gamblers on the financial markets is one thing. Providing mortgage owners some financial relief is another thing entirely different.

Yes and no. For a start if we hadn't bailed out the former we would have a lot more money to bail out the latter.

Many people bought very modest houses during the boom. Yes, they were overpriced & yes, they were probably stupid to buy them at the time, but at the time, they could also afford to pay for them.

You could say the exact same thing about NAMA names.

Things are different now - some people are jobless, others have taken paycuts, some households have taken both. The fact that they are saddled with debt, crippling interest rises & properties that are worth half their original value, to me, is enough punishment.

A small amount of interest relief would mean that they have a few extra quid to spend, which for the most part would go straight back into the local economy. Hardly a bad thing.

I'm OK with interest relief, so long as it's small and the rest of the banks follow suit in an identical fashion.

It's no different than what we already have in place with the likes of mortgage interest relief. Or indeed rent supplements to people on social welfare.

In fact, almost every aspect of everyone's lives is funded by taxes in some way. If you go to school or college, you are "costing the taxpayer money". If you use public transport, roads, public water mains, public sewers, hospitals etc you are "costing the taxpayer money".

But you don't see people up in arms about that.

I am and I am a taxpayer. I think social welfare payments are far too high(highest in the western world) and are stifling growth. I think how we spend said taxes on various services is woefully fcuking organised. I think the public sector herd needs to be seriously culled as large areas of it are still an (expensive)employment scheme for idiot sons and daughters of idiot sons and daughters. Beyond the motorways our road network is in a parlous state, the health service is beyond fcuking funny and as we speak there are people needlessly dying because of it. Up in arms over the taxes I pay and have paid for the last 20 fcuking years being pissed up a wall again? Damn right I am.

Wibbs

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Jesus, exagerate much!
How many people like you describe do you reckon there are out there?
At a guess i'd say they make up a very similar percentage of the population as mermaids and yetis!:D

Ehhh quite a few SB. Off the top of my head I can think of three in a pretty similar situation. One late 30's 600 K mortgage, 2 kids, let go last year in a contracting business in this country, wife doing small childminding nixers to make ends meet. Another guy 42, 4 kids, business collapsed in bankruptcy owing over a million, then add in near 500K on a mortgage another 50K on various loans and credit cards. His wife is qualified for nada so they're boned there. Third woman mid 30's 500K mortgage, 20+K on credit/car loans, down to part time with being let go a strong possibility before the summers out.

stovelid

I can more than easily pay my mortgage at the moment (and am a third of the way through it) and don't have big debts otherwise but I envy all the people on here trumpeting about compliance for being able to predict with such certainly that they will be able to do so for the next 10/20/30 years. Such powers of prescience makes me quite envious.

I also assume that if they do fall into unforseen difficulties in the future that they will abjure any financial help from banks or government in keeping with their own philosophy.

If they do - and the all the people that routinely excoriate those on the dole themselves never claim dole if they lose their jobs - we might save the state a pile of money in the coming decades.

Highly Salami

danbohan wrote: »

i had mortgage with aib in the 80s , its paid off now, i am entitled to a refund on my interest payments? , lovellleeeee

NO.

manc

I think this other article in the same paper will be more likely what will happen,the debt won't be written off just moved.


http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/q-amp-a-lenders-may-forgive-part-of-mortgage-but-at-a-price-2617780.html


AH response: i've half my mortgage repaid I want a refund if debt is written off......bury the banks and their bad mortgages now

SEPT 23 1989

The more people have in their pockets the faster we get out of this economic hole

Mardy Bum

AIB write off Mortgage debt:
Typical Response: Why am I paying for Jimmy, the idiot down the road with his modest house, who can't pay off his debt. Surely he should do that himself. /Outrage.

Bank bonuses/NAMA/Seany Fitz/David Drumm/Developers/Builders thread:
Typical Response: Why is it only the wealthy in society get away with everything what about the little people like Jimmy down the road.
/Outrage.