Welfare still generous

WalterMitty

I was watching Vincent Browne and there was some moany socialist lecturer type lady on saying the poor have been cut to the bone and there is no more to cut, but Welfare rates doubled over past deacde while inflation was only around half that. I dont remember people on welfare suffering horrendously during the early 2000s so what is she on about?

Bertie was planning to raise welfare to 30 or 40% of average wage under instruction of Fr Sean Healy and co in an attemot to but the welfare vote but we can no longer afford to pay such generous welfare to everyone. Most long term welfare recipients receive many time more than they ever paid in PRSI and other taxes.

How can you have a rational debate on such topics in IReland when the likes of Vincent Browne and Irish Times and RTE wheel out such speakers that say the poor cant pay any more etc etc.

Sorry , im rambling here, tired and pissed off with all the moaners trying to protect their own bailiwick while country goes down the jacks.

Oh dear...


Add up what you need to live per week and see if you can live on it. I know a married couple that have been married since 2006 that now have the choice to move back home with the folks or get a houseshare as they can't afford to rent since the husband lost his job.

Some people can't help it. I've been saying for years that the dole needs to be radically restructured. People need to be trained to start their own companies and the government should assist that. CE schemes, training allowances, Back To Education Allowances, Back to work schemes and start your own business schemes really need to be brought back in/revamped.

We won't get out of this mess by throwing money down the drain, which the dole essentially is. We need to grab the bull by the horns and get this country working again, no matter the hard choices we're going to have to suck up.

Tayla

Debt level are much much higher than they were back in the early 2000's.
A lot of peoples weekly social welfare money is going on these debts so what they have left wouldn't really be much more than they would have been getting a few years ago.

In the early noughties most people who wanted to work could have got a job if they wanted but a lot of them didn't bother, I wouldn't say there were many people trying to pay their mortgages with social welfare payments, but right now there are and that money would not go far enough at all.

WalterMitty

Papa Smut wrote: »

Oh dear...


Add up what you need to live per week and see if you can live on it. I know a married couple that have been married since 2006 that now have the choice to move back home with the folks or get a houseshare as they can't afford to rent since the husband lost his job.

Some people can't help it. I've been saying for years that the dole needs to be radically restructured. People need to be trained to start their own companies and the government should assist that. CE schemes, training allowances, Back To Education Allowances, Back to work schemes and start your own business schemes really need to be brought back in/revamped.

We won't get out of this mess by throwing money down the drain, which the dole essentially is. We need to grab the bull by the horns and get this country working again, no matter the hard choices we're going to have to suck up.

do those schemes work though? Has there been any studies to show they work? I know the education ones probably always do but CE and business schemes seem to have limited succes in what i have read in media and with FAS running them would you be suprised?

WalterMitty

Tayla wrote: »

Debt level are much much higher than they were back in the early 2000's.
A lot of peoples weekly social welfare money is going on these debts so what they have left wouldn't really be much more than they would have been getting a few years ago.

In the early noughties most people who wanted to work could have got a job if they wanted but a lot of them didn't bother, I wouldn't say there were many people trying to pay their mortgages with social welfare payments, but right now there are and that money would not go far enough at all.

Welfare was never meant to pay off debts though. There should be other schemes for that or better bankruptcy laws. I am on welfare by the way.

Tayla

WalterMitty wrote: »

Welfare was never meant to pay off debts though. There should be other schemes for that or better bankruptcy laws. I am on welfare by the way.

No I know it wasn't but people prioritise what they spend their welfare payments on in relation to the things they need most in their life.

Some people might be desperate to hold onto their hire purchase car because they live in the middle of nowhere and need their own transport.

Some people may be desperate to hold onto a good credit rating in the hopes of starting up a little business etc.

There are no other schemes unfortunately and people hope to go from welfare back to working while keeping their lives as much the same as they can.

WalterMitty

WalterMitty wrote: »

do those schemes work though? Has there been any studies to show they work? I know the education ones probably always do but CE and business schemes seem to have limited succes in what i have read in media and with FAS running them would you be suprised?

Well, I have a part-time job because of the old "Start up Business scheme". That was separate from FAS I think. It entitled my boss to full dole for the first year while starting out, getting reduced by a quarter every year for the first four years. I'm now looking at full time employment in 6 months or so. So that'll be two people off the dole.

I'm aware I'm speaking in an anecdotal sense, but I know a lot of people that had the ability to start the scary road to self employment with the safety net of the dole behind them.

We should also stop penalising those that are self employed if things don't work out. AFAIK if your business fails, you can't claim the dole after as you're not entitled to it. That is fairly scandalous.

We need to learn as a culture, that failure is a good thing. It means you tried. And chances are you'll try again.

AlekSmart

WalterMitty wrote: »

Do those schemes work though? Has there been any studies to show they work? I know the education ones probably always do but CE and business schemes seem to have limited succes in what i have read in media and with FAS running them would you be suprised?

They could work,and in some countries they do work.

However we appear rather bereft of any idea of what to do next.....

Dublin4 Example,some years back a major Fás scheme enabled a rather fetching reclaimation job to be done on the Riverside path along the Dodder,from Clonskeagh all the way down to Ballsbridge.

Lots of manual labour and a very high quality outcome which could have stood as an example of the benefits of such schemes.....:)

Today,the path is overgrown,filthy and strewn with the skeletal remains of the wooden seats with the pathways now just slimy mucky ruts.

It`s strewn with cans,bottles and other detritus,used as a drop in toilet by indigents as well as a secluded location for illicit sexual adventures by many of the youthful attendees of the Wez and nearby sporting clubs.....

A complete and total waste of resources,simply because nobody had a follow-on plan...build it and forget about it,,,it's somebody else's department that looks after that...di dum di dum dum....:mad:

No point in rehashing these schemes unless the official mindset has changed too !!!

jambojet

Older people don't have to retire, but it is nice for them to have the option.

femur61

SW has definitely been too high in the past, with escalating numbers now receiving SW and the public servants not taking a pay hit and still expecting payment, where is the money going to come from? It is a catch 22 situation.

Sleepy

This has been done to death on this forum. The economically literate point out that we can't afford the welfare levels that we have, that they currently act as a disincentive to accepting low paid jobs and that the Rent Allowance element of welfare is artificially propping up property prices.

The others believe the tax payer are responsible for paying for other people's mortgages, car-loans, holidays and lack of financial planning / responsibility whether we can afford this as a country or not.

dan_d

Something has to change, but as I've pointed out time and again, we also need to be careful about how we do it right now. Bearing in mind that a huge percentage of people now on the dole only ended up there in the last 2 years, and most would kill for a job of any sort. It should decrease the longer you are on it, but it needs to be done carefully. Ditto for housing allowances etc.

I do have to wonder why we should pay rent allowance indefinitely to people - is it inconceivable that they might manage to pull themselves up a bit in the world over a few years to be able to afford it themselves?? Some people spend years and years getting rent allowance - that doesn't seem right. Obviously jobs are few and far between right now, but under normal circumstances...surely they could manage to do night courses or something and get slightly better jobs, weaning themselves off rent allowance? Or am I being completely naive??

Certainly punishing people for failure in a start up is no longer a viable option. Something does need to be available for them.

For the record, I'm on the dole too. And I think this will be my last post in this thread because it has been done to death on this forum, and the same arguments keep coming up over and over and over again.

ardmacha

was watching Vincent Browne and there was some moany socialist lecturer type lady on saying the poor have been cut to the bone and there is no more to cut, but Welfare rates doubled over past decade while inflation was only around half that. I don't remember people on welfare suffering horrendously during the early 2000s so what is she on about?

It is appropriate for Vincent Browne to have all shades of opinion, I wouldn't censor debate. However, your point is valid. Comparison with earlier years is appropriate, I'd start by saying cut everything to 2004, (which is where the economy is) and then make adjustments from that starting point. If you want not to cut pensioners so much then cut the dole by more etc. If you want more third level students than 2004, then charge them. Combined with a revisit to the first benchmarking then you'd then have cuts that have a clear basis and which could be defended. The present approach of cutting a x by 10%, and y by 15% is divisive since there are insubstantial reasons for these differences.

bryaner

femur61 wrote: »

SW has definitely been too high in the past, with escalating numbers now receiving SW and the public servants not taking a pay hit and still expecting payment, where is the money going to come from? It is a catch 22 situation.

Jaysus did the PS not take 2 pay hits already?

HarryPotter41

femur61 wrote: »

and the public servants not taking a pay hit and still expecting payment, where is the money going to come from?

Sorry, what planet have you been living on?

DWCommuter

Papa Smut wrote: »

Oh dear...


Add up what you need to live per week and see if you can live on it. I know a married couple that have been married since 2006 that now have the choice to move back home with the folks or get a houseshare as they can't afford to rent since the husband lost his job.

Some people can't help it. I've been saying for years that the dole needs to be radically restructured. People need to be trained to start their own companies and the government should assist that. CE schemes, training allowances, Back To Education Allowances, Back to work schemes and start your own business schemes really need to be brought back in/revamped.

We won't get out of this mess by throwing money down the drain, which the dole essentially is. We need to grab the bull by the horns and get this country working again, no matter the hard choices we're going to have to suck up.

I think it is vital that these initiatives are reinvented. I was stunned when the back to work allowance was changed to the back to work enterprise allowance. Theres a vast difference in finding a job and starting a business. I believe these schemes work and are proactive in using SW money in a positive results based fashion. The back to work allowance should be reintroduced immediately. I'm an example of its success. I completed the scheme in 1995 after setting up a business. Im still in business and havent claimed a social welfare payment since then. The current scheme still facilitates that, but it should go back to including a person who simply finds a job.

I believe our current SW system is still based on the Celtic Tiger era. We moan about its apparent generosity and about how its a financial burden. But the blueprint to how it should be is there in front of us. We did it before. It needs to contain aspects of encouragement and positive support, instead of being seen as a hand out because your life is gone down the crapper.

Geuze

Unemployment assistance rates in 2007, source is OECD.

Max payments.


SORRY, don't know how to copy and paste from Excel into here.

Gumbo

WalterMitty wrote: »

I was watching Vincent Browne and there was some moany socialist lecturer type lady on saying the poor have been cut to the bone and there is no more to cut, but Welfare rates doubled over past deacde while inflation was only around half that. I dont remember people on welfare suffering horrendously during the early 2000s so what is she on about?

Bertie was planning to raise welfare to 30 or 40% of average wage under instruction of Fr Sean Healy and co in an attemot to but the welfare vote but we can no longer afford to pay such generous welfare to everyone. Most long term welfare recipients receive many time more than they ever paid in PRSI and other taxes.

How can you have a rational debate on such topics in IReland when the likes of Vincent Browne and Irish Times and RTE wheel out such speakers that say the poor cant pay any more etc etc.

Sorry , im rambling here, tired and pissed off with all the moaners trying to protect their own bailiwick while country goes down the jacks.

OP, you use inflation as a measure to justify cuts, but inflation is rising now, fuel is increasing and clothes and food here is amoung the most expensive in Europe, should we all be looking for a pay rise? or should the SW figure increase?

Geuze

Still trying to copy and paster from Excel...............

irishh_bob

WalterMitty wrote: »

I was watching Vincent Browne and there was some moany socialist lecturer type lady on saying the poor have been cut to the bone and there is no more to cut, but Welfare rates doubled over past deacde while inflation was only around half that. I dont remember people on welfare suffering horrendously during the early 2000s so what is she on about?

Bertie was planning to raise welfare to 30 or 40% of average wage under instruction of Fr Sean Healy and co in an attemot to but the welfare vote but we can no longer afford to pay such generous welfare to everyone. Most long term welfare recipients receive many time more than they ever paid in PRSI and other taxes.

How can you have a rational debate on such topics in IReland when the likes of Vincent Browne and Irish Times and RTE wheel out such speakers that say the poor cant pay any more etc etc.

Sorry , im rambling here, tired and pissed off with all the moaners trying to protect their own bailiwick while country goes down the jacks.

its not just a case of theese bleeding heart liberals enjoying every minute of thier airtime which they spend pontificating to the rest of us about how awfull we are not to want to pay any more tax so as to prevent further wellfare cuts, theese pious do - gooders make a good living from the poverty industry

Tipp Man

irishh_bob wrote: »

its not just a case of theese bleeding heart liberals enjoying every minute of thier airtime which they spend pontificating to the rest of us about how awfull we are not to want to pay any more tax so as to prevent further wellfare cuts, theese pious do - gooders make a good living from the poverty industry

400k salary to the Chief exec of Rehab is just one of many many examples

irishh_bob

Tipp Man wrote: »

400k salary to the Chief exec of Rehab is just one of many many examples

the best paid professional hand ringer in the country

Tipp Man

irishh_bob wrote: »

the best paid professional hand ringer in the country

I wonder how much of every EUR i give to Rehab actually makes its way to the intended destination??

ilovesleep

I have been doing some calculations. Am a single person, renting, no loans, keep bills to a minimum. Heating would be storage heating so electricity ie no oil, and if it came to it, not taking rent into consideration because those on social welfare would get rent allowance, I would be able to live of 115 euro a week.

10 euro busfare
40 - 50 groceries
12 - esb
10 a week into a kitty for monthly supplies like cleaning chemicals, and shampoo, soap, vitamins etc.

so thats 72 - 82 euro a week with 28 euro left over for other bits and pieces like for example those unemployed would need money for cv printing, etc

But not everyone would be like this. Those newly unemployed may have loans from when there were employed. Then there is talk of water charges, a household mug tax to replace the tv license.

Oh_Noes

ilovesleep wrote: »

not taking rent into consideration because those on social welfare would get rent allowance,

I'd imagine those that get rent allowance is a much smaller number than those who claim welfare. The process of getting on it is quite long and a lot of criteria have to be approved. Once in receipt of rent allowance, you still have to pay at least €25 p/w towards your rent.

ilovesleep

Oh_Noes wrote: »

I'd imagine those that get rent allowance is a much smaller number than those who claim welfare. The process of getting on it is quite long and a lot of criteria have to be approved. Once in receipt of rent allowance, you still have to pay at least €25 p/w towards your rent.

Well than you could wipe those figures out above. I dont know anything about rent allowance.

djpbarry

dan_d wrote: »

Bearing in mind that a huge percentage of people now on the dole only ended up there in the last 2 years...

I wouldn’t be so sure about that – according to the latest figures from the CSO, more than half of those currently unemployed in Ireland have been without work for at least 12 months.

dan_d wrote: »

Obviously jobs are few and far between right now, but under normal circumstances...surely they could manage to do night courses or something and get slightly better jobs, weaning themselves off rent allowance? Or am I being completely naive??

I don’t think you’re being naive at all – I would like to see far more people in Ireland display a similar proactive attitude. I’m heading back to Ireland this weekend for the first time this year and I have absolutely no doubt that my unemployed family members will be telling me, once more, that there’s no point doing x, y or z right now as the country is currently in a recession. It’s an attitude that I find absolutely infuriating – I’ll just sit here on welfare until the government plants a job in my lap. I should of course point out that this mindset is not unique to Ireland.

kceire wrote: »

OP, you use inflation as a measure to justify cuts, but inflation is rising now, fuel is increasing and clothes and food here is among the most expensive in Europe, should we all be looking for a pay rise? or should the SW figure increase?

Prices have increased slightly over the last few months, but they’re still only marginally higher than they were at the end of 2006. Housing, utilities and food are only slightly higher than ~4 years ago, while clothing is substantially cheaper:
http://www.cso.ie/quicktables/GetQuickTables.aspx?FileName=CPM01C11.asp&TableName=January+to+Date+2011&StatisticalProduct=DB_CP

dan_d

djpbarry wrote: »

I don’t think you’re being naive at all – I would like to see far more people in Ireland display a similar proactive attitude. I’m heading back to Ireland this weekend for the first time this year and I have absolutely no doubt that my unemployed family members will be telling me, once more, that there’s no point doing x, y or z right now as the country is currently in a recession. It’s an attitude that I find absolutely infuriating – I’ll just sit here on welfare until the government plants a job in my lap. I should of course point out that this mindset is not unique to Ireland.

Well....it depends on the situation....but surely they're at least looking for jobs??? My current problem is how on earth I'll fund a Masters come Sept because realistically I'll now have to retrain, and there's no State agency out there willing to fund that level of education. I could do all the Microsoft Excel courses and basic IT courses that I like, but I need something a bit more than that at this stage, and naturally, I'll have to pay for it myself. But how on earth I'll pay for a mortgage while doing it, I have no idea at all. None.
Meanwhile, the job hunt continues daily....

djpbarry

dan_d wrote: »

Well....it depends on the situation....but surely they're at least looking for jobs???

Nope, not really. A few CVs were forwarded to recruitment consultants at different stages over the last 12-24 months, but that’s about it. I have one family member who has actually turned down two interviews out of hand as they considered the commutes involved excessive. I don’t know what they think they’re going to achieve. I accept that this is purely anecdotal, but I have absolutely no doubt there are others with similar attitudes.

And as I said, it’s not something that’s confined to Ireland. I remember watching a BBC News special report on one of the UK’s unemployment black-spots, Stoke-on-Trent. This involved a reporter speaking to about 10 welfare-dependent Stoke-residents, most of whom were long-term unemployed. The general message that came from the report was that there were no jobs in Stoke and the government wasn’t doing much about it. I also got the distinct impression that the individuals involved were not at all interested in jobs outside Stoke – apparently a commute to Manchester (for example) was too much trouble.

I should stress at this point that I appreciate there are obviously unemployed people who are genuinely struggling to find work and not everyone’s a lazy sponger.

dan_d wrote: »

My current problem is how on earth I'll fund a Masters come Sept because realistically I'll now have to retrain, and there's no State agency out there willing to fund that level of education.

Might I suggest starting a thread on this subject in the Postgraduates forum? You might get some useful advice.

Cookie_Monster

Oh_Noes wrote: »

I'd imagine those that get rent allowance is a much smaller number than those who claim welfare. The process of getting on it is quite long and a lot of criteria have to be approved. Once in receipt of rent allowance, you still have to pay at least €25 p/w towards your rent.

50% of all rental properties received some form of rent allowance from the gov so pretty high me thinks

crossmolinalad

ilovesleep wrote: »

I have been doing some calculations. Am a single person, renting, no loans, keep bills to a minimum. Heating would be storage heating so electricity ie no oil, and if it came to it, not taking rent into consideration because those on social welfare would get rent allowance, I would be able to live of 115 euro a week.

10 euro busfare
40 - 50 groceries
12 - esb
10 a week into a kitty for monthly supplies like cleaning chemicals, and shampoo, soap, vitamins etc.

so thats 72 - 82 euro a week with 28 euro left over for other bits and pieces like for example those unemployed would need money for cv printing, etc

But not everyone would be like this. Those newly unemployed may have loans from when there were employed. Then there is talk of water charges, a household mug tax to replace the tv license.

mortgage 120 eur a week
groceries 50 eur a week
esb 10 eur a week
oil 55 eur a week
= 235 euro a week

Get fuel +swa= 205 euro aweek
Get the difference from my parents
With the cold got an extra 500 euro oil from them lucky me with parents like them
using Oil will get less from now on but starts all over again next September
Hate people who say the dole is to generous
Hate to be on the dole want to live again
hate topics like these
hate people who know nothing about being on the dole and thinking they know how it must be done right
Hate vincent browne with his dole programs on telly with the wrong dole people on it
I know there are people who make a living of the dole but they have kids so they getting loads more because they have kids but don't spent it on them and uses it for drinks smokes and expensive clothes
Have an example of that kind of people living next door
Getting used clothes and toys for their kids and going every Friday and or Saturday to the local pub

dan_d

djpbarry wrote: »

Nope, not really. A few CVs were forwarded to recruitment consultants at different stages over the last 12-24 months, but that’s about it. I have one family member who has actually turned down two interviews out of hand as they considered the commutes involved excessive. I don’t know what they think they’re going to achieve. I accept that this is purely anecdotal, but I have absolutely no doubt there are others with similar attitudes.

Wow.That's unbelievable. If I were you, I'd be raging with them. I'm sending out CV's to every job I can apply for since last July, and took a job with a major paycut in Jan - didn't care, it was work - which I then lost, due to economic circumstances at the company. I don't understand the mindset of people who sit around and shrug their shoulders.I just couldn't do that - I hate taking handouts.

djpbarry wrote: »

And as I said, it’s not something that’s confined to Ireland. I remember watching a BBC News special report on one of the UK’s unemployment black-spots, Stoke-on-Trent. This involved a reporter speaking to about 10 welfare-dependent Stoke-residents, most of whom were long-term unemployed. The general message that came from the report was that there were no jobs in Stoke and the government wasn’t doing much about it. I also got the distinct impression that the individuals involved were not at all interested in jobs outside Stoke – apparently a commute to Manchester (for example) was too much trouble.

I presume they'd be the "scroungers" in this country that people just love talking about :rolleyes:

djpbarry wrote: »

I should stress at this point that I appreciate there are obviously unemployed people who are genuinely struggling to find work and not everyone’s a lazy sponger.
Might I suggest starting a thread on this subject in the Postgraduates forum? You might get some useful advice.

A fair point, I'll do that. Thanks.:)

HarryPotter41

crossmolinalad wrote: »

mortgage 120 eur a week
groceries 50 eur a week
esb 10 eur a week
oil 55 eur a week
= 235 euro a week

Get fuel +swa= 205 euro aweek
Get the difference from my parents
With the cold got an extra 500 euro oil from them lucky me with parents like them
using Oil will get less from now on but starts all over again next September
Hate people who say the dole is to generous
Hate to be on the dole want to live again
hate topics like these
hate people who know nothing about being on the dole and thinking they know how it must be done right
Hate vincent browne with his dole programs on telly with the wrong dole people on it
I know there are people who make a living of the dole but they have kids so they getting loads more because they have kids but don't spent it on them and uses it for drinks smokes and expensive clothes
Have an example of that kind of people living next door
Getting used clothes and toys for their kids and going every Friday and or Saturday to the local pub

Don't know whether to sympathise with ya for being on the dole, or being from Ballymac, which is worse

You are lucky, but also remember in a different circumstance if needed you could probably move back in with your parents. The problem is a lot of people would not go out and work for €100 more than you are getting on SW which is what the biggest problem is. The added costs of working would not make it worth their while.

And before you accuse me of it, I spent plenty of time on the dole back when the dole was ***te and ya were busting to work at anything because it was bgetter than the dole.

Oh_Noes

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

50% of all rental properties received some form of rent allowance from the gov so pretty high me thinks

Yeah that's a high ratio in terms of rented properties. Did your source for that figure also have figures for how many social welfare recipients are getting the RA? A percentage?

I would wager it's a fair bit less than 50%.

Sleepy

crossmolinalad wrote: »

mortgage 120 eur a week
groceries 50 eur a week
esb 10 eur a week
oil 55 eur a week
= 235 euro a week

My taxes should no more be paying your mortgage than a landlords.
€55 a week on oil? Have ye ever heard of jumpers in your house?
€50 a week on groceries for one person? I was able to feed a family of 4 on €70 when I was unemployed.

jimmycrackcorm

crossmolinalad wrote: »

mortgage 120 eur a week
groceries 50 eur a week
esb 10 eur a week
oil 55 eur a week
= 235 euro a week

So I take it the taxpayer is paying your mortgage?

If you were renting then your figures would be €115 p/w plus rent allowance. What would you do with the rest?

Oh_Noes

Sleepy wrote: »

My taxes should no more be paying your mortgage than a landlords.

The guy obviously didn't get the mortgage by being on the dole, looks very much like he lost his job. He's probably paid his tax too.

How else do you propose he pay his mortgage? If the tables were turned and it was you suddenly out of work, how would you pay your rent/mortgage?

Godge

crossmolinalad wrote: »

mortgage 120 eur a week
groceries 50 eur a week
esb 10 eur a week
oil 55 eur a week
= 235 euro a week

Get fuel +swa= 205 euro aweek
Get the difference from my parents
With the cold got an extra 500 euro oil from them lucky me with parents like them
using Oil will get less from now on but starts all over again next September
Hate people who say the dole is to generous
Hate to be on the dole want to live again
hate topics like these
hate people who know nothing about being on the dole and thinking they know how it must be done right
Hate vincent browne with his dole programs on telly with the wrong dole people on it
I know there are people who make a living of the dole but they have kids so they getting loads more because they have kids but don't spent it on them and uses it for drinks smokes and expensive clothes
Have an example of that kind of people living next door
Getting used clothes and toys for their kids and going every Friday and or Saturday to the local pub

65 euro a week on heating and ESB - that adds up to about 560 for a two-month bill (just above eight weeks). Does not compute for a single person living on their own.

Gumbo

Sleepy wrote: »

My taxes should no more be paying your mortgage than a landlords.
€55 a week on oil? Have ye ever heard of jumpers in your house?
€50 a week on groceries for one person? I was able to feed a family of 4 on €70 when I was unemployed.

God forbid the day you end up back on the dole and go begging for handouts. The guy is paying his mortgage so he doesn't do a runner and leave the bill to the tax payer!

I do the shopping in my house and theres no way you can feed a family of 4 for 70e, absolutely no way, so IMO that's a lie. I shop in aldi and it costs me that for 2. Your talking 7 healthy dinners and 5 lunches for work and that's not counting breakfast, lunches of he others and kids lunches and breakfast! Hour just ranting and trying to spout figures to suit your argument here, shame on you and the 2 students that thanked it.

Head The Wall

kceire wrote: »

God forbid the day you end up back on the dole and go begging for handouts. The guy is paying his mortgage so he doesn't do a runner and leave the bill to the tax payer!

I do the shopping in my house and theres no way you can feed a family of 4 for 70e, absolutely no way, so IMO that's a lie. I shop in aldi and it costs me that for 2. Your talking 7 healthy dinners and 5 lunches for work and that's not counting breakfast, lunches of he others and kids lunches and breakfast! Hour just ranting and trying to spout figures to suit your argument here, shame on you and the 2 students that thanked it.

I'm not a student by the way so thanks for making yourself look like a fool.

I spent nine months on the dole and actually managed to get out more then than I do now when I am working and I didn't apply for rent allowance either.

€350 of oil lasted me from August to this month in a 4 bed 1200sq ft house so I don't know what that guy is spouting on about

Finally, the dole is not for paying mortgages. The fact that he can still pay it says it all about our dole levels

macannrb

Head The Wall wrote: »

Finally, the dole is not for paying mortgages. The fact that he can still pay it says it all about our dole levels

You hit the nail on the head there.

If you can pay a mortgage on the dole, why bother work at all

Its called the job seekers allowance. Its a help out when you are looking for a job. Its not a way of life, or it should not be. Its to little help out, not a long term option. Working should be the only long term option unless you have saved up lots, to go for a year of travel or whatever it is

the groutch

the basic dole is about right for a single person, especially with the reversal of the minimum wage cut due shortly.
the inherant problem with the system tho is the rake of extra benefits people are getting, which effectively pay people to stay at home instead of working.

then there's child benefit, it is rediculous that it increases as you have more kids, eg. you get paid extra for the 3rd child, when the extra expenses of having a 3rd child is alot less than with your first. imo that payment should be lower and lower after each child, instead of paying people who can't afford to have kids to have 4 or 5 of them

Gumbo

Head The Wall wrote: »

I'm not a student by the way so thanks for making yourself look like a fool.

I spent nine months on the dole and actually managed to get out more then than I do now when I am working and I didn't apply for rent allowance either.

€350 of oil lasted me from August to this month in a 4 bed 1200sq ft house so I don't know what that guy is spouting on about

Finally, the dole is not for paying mortgages. The fact that he can still pay it says it all about our dole levels

Ha ha, so you still maintain that you can feed a family of 4 for a week including all dinners, breakfasts, lunches for work etc etc and snacks for 70e......., Not a chance in hell. And your just making up figures to try suit your agenda/argument.

Noreen1

It seems to me that people are neglecting to factor in the difference in the cost of living in various parts of the country, and the fact that people have different family circumstances.

For example, I do very little shopping in my local village - it's just too expensive.....
So, I tend to do a big monthly shop instead, which involves a 70 or 80 mile round trip. Savings tend to be in the region of 50-60% of the total shopping bill.
I can do that, because I have a family, so the savings are greater than the cost of the petrol. Single people obviously make lesser savings because of the transport costs.

Equally, those living in/within commuting distance of cities may have higher rents, but may or may not have access to shops which offer value for money, whilst for many people living in rural areas, the added expense of a car is an absolute necessity.

One size doesn't fit all.
If people acknowledge that, it might just lead to improved debate, rather than the seemingly endless round of "I can live on X amount of money, therefore anyone who needs more must be drinking/smoking/going on endless foreign holidays........."etc.

Prepares herself for howls of outrage/denial/excuses from a certain type of poster............

HivemindXX

kceire wrote: »

Ha ha, so you still maintain that you can feed a family of 4 for a week including all dinners, breakfasts, lunches for work etc etc and snacks for 70e......., Not a chance in hell. And your just making up figures to try suit your agenda/argument.

I find that hard to believe too. Apart from my mortgage, food is my next highest expense. I have a job but I'd love to know how to save a bit more money since in the event I do become unemployed I'll need those saving to pay my mortgage while I look for work.

I consider €50 a week on food and other consumables to be pretty good. Claiming that as profligate spending seems to be purely designed to set up an argument that the social welfare payments are too high.

You're on your own on the oil bill though. I don't see how this can be accurate. I'd advise setting up a motion detector to catch whoever is siphoning out of your tank!

bryaner

Sleepy wrote: »

My taxes should no more be paying your mortgage than a landlords.
€55 a week on oil? Have ye ever heard of jumpers in your house?
€50 a week on groceries for one person? I was able to feed a family of 4 on €70 when I was unemployed.

Na, I do the shopping for the house (90% Lidl 10% Tesco). I also have a family of 4 and there's not a hope of doing the weekly shop for €70 bar everyone eats feckin hang sandwiches all week.

WalterMitty

food is very cheap these days. 2litres of milk 1.49eur in tesco nowadays, used to be a lot more in real terms a decade ago. You can get loads of meat for a tenner in tesco on special. Trays of eggs cost a few euro . Theres always different brands of bread on special in the supermarkets. The purchasing power of the welfare is a LOT higher now than in the early 2000s

Gumbo

WalterMitty wrote: »

food is very cheap these days. 2litres of milk 1.49eur in tesco nowadays, used to be a lot more in real terms a decade ago. You can get loads of meat for a tenner in tesco on special. Trays of eggs cost a few euro . Theres always different brands of bread on special in the supermarkets. The purchasing power of the welfare is a LOT higher now than in the early 2000s

Food has gone up in recent years and is still rising. Dot listen to tescos slogan of "we have reduced 1000's of items" when in actual fact is that they increased them in jan and feb to allow for the reduction in April.

Doesn't matter what way you swing it, you cannot feed a family of healthily on 70e per week like the op said, he was simp using a Figure trying to excite an argument.

crossmolinalad

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

So I take it the taxpayer is paying your mortgage?

If you were renting then your figures would be €115 p/w plus rent allowance. What would you do with the rest?

Then the taxpayer is still paying the mortgage
Everyone who gets rent allowance is paying the mortgage from someone else
Named a landlord
So if i pay my mortgage or i pay rent with rent allowence i still pay a mortgage with the money from a tax payer
i dont see the difference

Head The Wall

kceire wrote: »

Ha ha, so you still maintain that you can feed a family of 4 for a week including all dinners, breakfasts, lunches for work etc etc and snacks for 70e......., Not a chance in hell. And your just making up figures to try suit your agenda/argument.

So I'm making up figures because you choose to believe that I don't waste oil and you are also implying I said something I didn't. You may not be aware of the fact that some people think before they use/waste things as they realise they have to be paid for. I guess you're not one of those due to your comments here

Keep on digging that hole to idiotland. You're nearly there

kceire wrote: »

Food has gone up in recent years and is still rising. Dot listen to tescos slogan of "we have reduced 1000's of items" when in actual fact is that they increased them in jan and feb to allow for the reduction in April.

Doesn't matter what way you swing it, you cannot feed a family of healthily on 70e per week like the op said, he was simp using a Figure trying to excite an argument.

There's more places than Tescos to do shopping

crossmolinalad wrote: »

Then the taxpayer is still paying the mortgage
Everyone who gets rent allowance is paying the mortgage from someone else
Named a landlord
So if i pay my mortgage or i pay rent with rent allowence i still pay a mortgage with the money from a tax payer
i dont see the difference

You obviously don't see the fact that the govt shouldn't be paying for either of these mortgages. Two wrongs don't make a right, that might be a bit of a reach for you to comprehend

Gumbo

Head The Wall wrote: »

So I'm making up figures because you choose to believe that I don't waste oil

i havent mentioned anything about oil
i was responding to a claim by a poster that he feeds his whole family for 70e for a week which i said was a lie.

you thanked that poster which implies that you agree with him, i couldnt feed a family of 4 for a week on 70e and i shop in the german stores and it my opinon (which forums are for) that the poster is a liar and making up figures to suit his argument.

Head The Wall wrote: »

There's more places than Tescos to do shopping

i was responding to a different poster (not you, as you should know) who brought up Teasco, please read them posts in context