Yet more money wasted by the RSA; Ridiculous Motorway Safety Campaign

seamus

So following on from a cyclist safety campaign which contained inaccurate information, required data from 13 years of collisions to look plausible and which failed to highlight the most important dangers to cyclists, the RSA have moved onto the next bastion of dangerousness: Motorways.

Yes, a sophisticated advertising campaign aimed at making the safest roads in the country a tiny bit safer.

http://www.rsa.ie/Utility/News/2011/New-Awareness-Campaign-on-Motorway-Safety-Launched/

Yes, despite motorways accounting for just 2% of all fatalities in a five-year period, the RSA in their infinite wisdom have decided that people need to be told, "Don't walk on the motorway" or "Don't drive the wrong way down the motorway".

These are clearly more important messages than "Never overtake on a solid white line" or, "An 80km/h limit on a boreen doesn't mean that 80km/h is safe". Or even instead of putting up "Caution: Hidden entrance" or "Accident Black spot" signs, they should have the power to force the local authority to alter the road to correct these problems.

Why are we spending good money on the RSA when they continually fail to out-and-out address the primary causes of road deaths in this country, instead choosing to focus on blanket terms like "speeding"?

Cookie_Monster

It's worth it if they can just get the message across to "keep left unless overtaking, yes that means lane 1 on the M50, not lane 2. Keep left!!!!!!!!!!"

dazmetron

Well apparently people need to be told not to drive on the wrong side of the motorway. Cookie Monster posted this in the motors forum earlier today and if the publicity campaign can prevent things like this happening then I wouldn't consider it money wasted

seamus

dazmetron wrote: »

Well apparently people need to be told not to drive on the wrong side of the motorway. Cookie Monster posted this in the motors forum earlier today and if the publicity campaign can prevent things like this happening then I wouldn't consider it money wasted

It won't though. There's no legislating for idiocy. I don't think this guy needs to be told that driving the wrong way down the motorway is both stupid and illegal, but he has decided for whatever reason that's the choice for him.

In short, the only people who currently walk on motorways or drive the wrong way down them are idiots. No ad campaign will stop them.

mickydoomsux

seamus wrote: »

...the RSA in their infinite wisdom have decided that people need to be told, "Don't walk on the motorway" or "Don't drive the wrong way down the motorway".

I've encountered both of these things numerous times over the past couple of years.

Just a couple of weeks ago i saw someone do a U-turn on a motorway and drive the wrong way back down the on ramp. Earlier this week i saw someone run from one of those "rest area" parking bits on one side of the motorway, vault the dividing wall and run over to the parking bit on the other side to get back to his vehicle. Also, every day i drive into work every second person i see, both on my side of the motorway and coming the other way, is on their mobile. Learner drivers are a common sight. People sit in the overtaking lane because they think it's a "fast lane" even though they'll do maybe 100km/h at most so you end up having to "undertake" the at the speed limit in the left lane.

Irish motorists in the main are monumentally stupid and with the recent expansions to our motorway network you're getting more and more poor quality drivers who have little/no experience of motorway driving and are too bogged down with horrible driving habits to learn any better because as far as they are concerned they are driving perfectly as it is.

This campaign is a bit silly to people who understand the rules of the road but it is needed for the vast majority of motorists in this country, much like the TV ads explaining roundabouts were needed (not that they have had any obvious effect, 90% of drivers i meet negotiate each roundabout like it's the first time they've ever encountered one).

kaizersoze

seamus wrote: »

It won't though. There's no legislating for idiocy. I don't think this guy needs to be told that driving the wrong way down the motorway is both stupid and illegal, but he has decided for whatever reason that's the choice for him.

In short, the only people who currently walk on motorways or drive the wrong way down them are idiots. No ad campaign will stop them.

The same can be said of all safety ad campaigns but it's not a reason not to run them.

Patrickof

The motorways themselves could do with a bit of upgrading. Was heading to Waterford on Sunday and we stopped for a few minutes on one of those "parking/rest areas" on the M9 near Kilkenny.

There's NO barrier between the rest area and the motorway lanes, just a few plastic red "sticks" highlighting the difference. If a car / truck had a problem and lost control the folk in the rest area could be struck. Madness.

And there's no bins - now I know people should take their rubbish away with them, but surely in this day and age we can afford to have a few serviced bins in the rest areas. The layby was strewn with rubbish (tayto bags, coffee cups, etc.).

Rant nearly over, while driving down that route (Athy-Waterford M9) I noticed that there's no information at all about where you're driving. By that I mean in terms of tourism, only little brown signs saying things like "Jerpoint Abbey, 2Km" - what foreigner is going to be enticed by that? Having driven a lot in France, they place large brown signs along all motorway routes indicating whats interesting about that region e.g. "Pays du vin" or something informative that lets you know what region you are in or something brief about the history of the area (Pictures of a castle and a knight on horseback or WWII memorials etc)

It's not that bloody expensive to erect a few signs and might attract tourists in to the local areas.

Does everything need to be explained to the NRA/Local authorities? Make an effort for f*** sake!

bmaxi

There is no point in having road safety campaigns when those employed to enforce the law ignore the law breakers. This is a pet peeve of mine but I travel the M11 almost every day and I've lost count of the times I've seen Garda cars sail merrily past walkers, cyclists, parked cars, trucks, buses, tractors, you name it. These are cars that have "Garda Traffic Corps" ( a misnomer if ever there was one) emblazoned all over them. How can people be expected to take traffic law seriously when the enforcers don't?

Alun

+1 My wife also travels the M11 regularly and sees people being picked up on the hard shoulder after having run across from the other side and crossing the central reservation. Ringing the guards in Bray evoked a less than interested reaction, i.e. 'What do you want us to do about it?'. Ditto for when I've rung up to complain about people parking in the southbound on ramp from Herbert Road or about lorries parking in the Glendalough off-ramp at Kilmacanogue, they appear to be just not interested.

Mr. Presentable

seamus wrote: »

Yes, despite motorways accounting for just 2% of all fatalities in a five-year period, the RSA in their infinite wisdom have decided that people need to be told, "Don't walk on the motorway" or "Don't drive the wrong way down the motorway".

The campaign:
"The new advertising campaign focuses on the key motorway issues of Lane Merging, Lane Discipline on 3 Lane Motorways, Overtaking and a Breakdown"

You are focusing on the "alsos"

Now I may be mistaken, but it seems to me posters in the motors forum are crying in frustration every day at lack of lane discipline, failure to overtake correctly on the M-Way. Now they're doing something about it and it's wrong?

Stark

Patrickof wrote: »

The motorways themselves could do with a bit of upgrading. Was heading to Waterford on Sunday and we stopped for a few minutes on one of those "parking/rest areas" on the M9 near Kilkenny.

There's NO barrier between the rest area and the motorway lanes, just a few plastic red "sticks" highlighting the difference. If a car / truck had a problem and lost control the folk in the rest area could be struck. Madness.

And there's no bins - now I know people should take their rubbish away with them, but surely in this day and age we can afford to have a few serviced bins in the rest areas. The layby was strewn with rubbish (tayto bags, coffee cups, etc.).

Rant nearly over, while driving down that route (Athy-Waterford M9) I noticed that there's no information at all about where you're driving. By that I mean in terms of tourism, only little brown signs saying things like "Jerpoint Abbey, 2Km" - what foreigner is going to be enticed by that? Having driven a lot in France, they place large brown signs along all motorway routes indicating whats interesting about that region e.g. "Pays du vin" or something informative that lets you know what region you are in or something brief about the history of the area (Pictures of a castle and a knight on horseback or WWII memorials etc)

It's not that bloody expensive to erect a few signs and might attract tourists in to the local areas.

Does everything need to be explained to the NRA/Local authorities? Make an effort for f*** sake!

They shouldn't have picnic areas on the sides of motorways in the first place.

Patrickof

Stark wrote: »

They shouldn't have picnic areas on the sides of motorways in the first place.

The French manage it quite well, although those are a bit more substantial - set back from the main traffic flow, usually by a small wooded area, with toilets/bins.

But I take your point. It's a half assed facility.

dazmetron

Alun wrote: »

+1 My wife also travels the M11 regularly and sees people being picked up on the hard shoulder after having run across from the other side and crossing the central reservation. Ringing the guards in Bray evoked a less than interested reaction, i.e. 'What do you want us to do about it?'. Ditto for when I've rung up to complain about people parking in the southbound on ramp from Herbert Road or about lorries parking in the Glendalough off-ramp at Kilmacanogue, they appear to be just not interested.

Just to point out that neither of these are on a motorway although the parking in the off-ramp at the Topaz in Kilmacanoque is dire and only makes an already dangerous situation worse.

I have to agree about the pedestrians on the M11 though. It seems to be particularly bad nearest the Loughlinstown roundabout and also at the Bray North exit

Alun

dazmetron wrote: »

Just to point out that neither of these are on a motorway although the parking in the off-ramp at the Topaz in Kilmacanoque is dire and only makes an already dangerous situation worse.

Yes, I'm aware it's the N11 at that stage, but I was making the point of how disinterested the Gardai are when you ring to complain about these kind of things. It's academic really though, as many of the idiotic things we're talking about here are equally as idiotic on a DC as they are on a motorway.

dazmetron

Alun wrote: »

Yes, I'm aware it's the N11 at that stage, but I was making the point of how disinterested the Gardai are when you ring to complain about these kind of things. It's academic really though, as many of the idiotic things we're talking about here are equally as idiotic on a DC as they are on a motorway.

I'm certainly not going to disagree with that

Zoney

Stark wrote: »

They shouldn't have picnic areas on the sides of motorways in the first place.

They have picnic areas on the Autobahn in Germany, in addition to full service areas, I went past one only the other week. However there was a proper deceleration/acceleration lane (although like many LILO junctions there, this lane is in place of the hard shoulder) and not only a crash barrier alongside the main carriageway and the picnic area set several meters further over, but also trees screening the picnic area from the Autobahn.

It was definitely a picnic area though. Wooden picnic tables/seating, *bins* and loos, with a brown sign showing a picnic table.

The lay-bys here are almost the same as stopping on the hard shoulder. Absolutely irresponsible of the NRA to allow them to be used (on some motorways they are closed off). Especially with the lack of service areas though they should be upgraded to proper safe lay-by areas. Even just a hefty crash barrier and replacing hard shoulder with acceleration/deceleration lanes either side would suffice for now.

mickydoomsux

Zoney wrote: »

They have picnic areas on the Autobahn in Germany, in addition to full service areas, I went past one only the other week. However there was a proper deceleration/acceleration lane (although like many LILO junctions there, this lane is in place of the hard shoulder) and not only a crash barrier alongside the main carriageway and the picnic area set several meters further over, but also trees screening the picnic area from the Autobahn.

It was definitely a picnic area though. Wooden picnic tables/seating, *bins* and loos, with a brown sign showing a picnic table.

As nice as all that sounds, that kind of thing wouldn't last a week over here before someone wrecked it.

We live in a country were people set fire to speed camera vans with people in them.

Zoney

mickydoomsux wrote: »

As nice as all that sounds, that kind of thing wouldn't last a week over here before someone wrecked it.

We live in a country were people set fire to speed camera vans with people in them.

I don't consider that as a valid argument. It's not a situation that can continue where people are allowed to behave as they see fit.

Getting back to the topic in hand, such attitudes also manifest themselves in people putting the lives of others at risk for the sake of their own convenience (playacting on motorways to get back to the previous exit, etc.)

There are certain "traditional" characteristics we need to have zero tolerance for. We can be genuinely Irish without keeping the things that contribute to the worst stereotypes.

I do believe the vocal minority in Ireland who want things done properly are increasing. At the very least hopefully the political party who most epitomise the negative traditions here has been dispensed with after ensuring that for decades the state was run to suit those who want to suit themselves.

bmaxi

dazmetron wrote: »

Just to point out that neither of these are on a motorway although the parking in the off-ramp at the Topaz in Kilmacanoque is dire and only makes an already dangerous situation worse.

I have to agree about the pedestrians on the M11 though. It seems to be particularly bad nearest the Loughlinstown roundabout and also at the Bray North exit

The incidences I mentioned all happened on motorway sections, including sixteen members of a cycling club on a stretch of the Arklow bypass, these were two abreast on the hard shoulder weaving in and out as they negotiated a steep hill, hard to miss.
The point is, it should be an automatic response from any trained police officer to address something like this. The inference is that Gardaí have no sense of duty, it's just another job to clock in and get it over with as soon as possible. This is not what the public expect.

runway16

Waste of money my Swiss!

We have spent hundreds of millions widening 2 lane motorways to 3 or 4 lane, only for the idiot population to use lanes 2 and 3 only, meaning the capacity benefits of the extra lanes are being totally wasted.

NOT educating people on how to use these roads properly is what is the REAL waste of money.

foggy_lad

Patrickof wrote: »

The motorways themselves could do with a bit of upgrading. Was heading to Waterford on Sunday and we stopped for a few minutes on one of those "parking/rest areas" on the M9 near Kilkenny.

There's NO barrier between the rest area and the motorway lanes, just a few plastic red "sticks" highlighting the difference. If a car / truck had a problem and lost control the folk in the rest area could be struck. Madness.

And there's no bins - now I know people should take their rubbish away with them, but surely in this day and age we can afford to have a few serviced bins in the rest areas. The layby was strewn with rubbish (tayto bags, coffee cups, etc.).

These areas are just stopping areas and are not picnic areas or somewhere to take a stroll. Did you not notice the rather clear and large signs telling drivers to stay in their vehicles?

There is also a very high kerb as well as the road marking which is that new rumble strip type which should wake any overtired lorry driver so no barrier is required.

There are no bins because it is not a service area or a council tip, bring your rubbish home and put it in your own bin!

BrianD

Having driven dowbn to Carlow on the M7/M9 yesterday, it's clear that some form of education concerning m-way driving is required. I think people have grasped the driving in the correct dorection but the following is what I witnessed yesterday.

- Driving in the overtaking lane at various speeds from 80km to 120km.
- Paniced and abrupt moving from overtaking to left lane.
- Incorrect lane when position when exiting at J11 for the M9 (people driving down the dotted line between the two lanes)
- One guy a J10 who thought that mainline traffic was supposed to yield to him as he comes down the slip (he wanted to enter the mainline quicker than the car in front that he was tailgating). He seemed annoyed that I didn't yield.

I begining to think that it would make sense that as everybodies licence comes up for renewal, they should have to sit a theory test that would cover the latest standards.

Patrickof

foggy_lad wrote: »

These areas are just stopping areas and are not picnic areas or somewhere to take a stroll. Did you not notice the rather clear and large signs telling drivers to stay in their vehicles?

There is also a very high kerb as well as the road marking which is that new rumble strip type which should wake any overtired lorry driver so no barrier is required.

There are no bins because it is not a service area or a council tip, bring your rubbish home and put it in your own bin!

No, I didn't notice any signs, they're obviously not that "large and rather clear"

I wouldn't consider the kerb to be that large. Rumble strips won't stop a car that's veering out of control, on many motorway stretches there are regular skid marks going off the main lanes onto the hard shoulder and the central area, I'm guessing its drivers reacting to slower traffic or obstructions. Many of these skid marks go straight into the trees/barriers at the motorway edges, with evident damage.

I did bring my rubbish home, not all are as dilligent though.

These stopping areas are not safe nor are they fit for purpose. They're the usual "irish solution".

the groutch

BrianD wrote: »

I begining to think that it would make sense that as everybodies licence comes up for renewal, they should have to sit a theory test that would cover the latest standards.

+1 on this, nobody should ever be guaranteed a licence for life
sure with the 1979 amnesty, there's a whole load of people out there on the roads who never even took a driving test

daveharnett

Patrickof wrote: »

These stopping areas are not safe nor are they fit for purpose. They're the usual "irish solution".

My understanding is that they are an afterthought which were added when the NRA/contractors realized that the dozen or so planned service areas would not be opening at the same time as the motorway.

Again as I understand it, these are supposed to a cheap and temporary 'fix', providing somewhere marginally safer than the hard shoulder to stop only if you absolutely must (hence the lack of amenities). My hope is that these will be removed entirely when a reasonable number of service areas are completed.

Stark

A lot of them were built or designed before motorway resignation as well so were intended for dual carriageways with 100km/hr limits (with legal stopping on the hard shoulder and pedestrians and cyclists), not motorways.

highlydebased

Stark wrote: »

A lot of them were built or designed before motorway resignation as well so were intended for dual carriageways with 100km/hr limits (with legal stopping on the hard shoulder and pedestrians and cyclists), not motorways.

Whats the point there? The road will have a hard shoulder regardless. Also The M7, M8, M9 etc, the sections which contain these "stopping areas" were built and designed with the intention that the road would be a motorway.

Stark

The only M8 section intended to be motorway was the bit between Cullahill and Portlaoise. The rest was N8 when it opened. Similarly with the N9 (now M9) from Kilcullen to Waterford and the N7/M7 from Limerick to Borris-in-Ossory.

Greenmachine

Going East form Maynooth on the M4. Saw a gang of young lads between the leixlip w/celbridge w and the leixlip/celbridge exit stand on the hard shoulder looking into the resevoir. Beeped the horn at them, cue 6-7 puzzled face looking around blind to why I was beeping.

seamus wrote: »

It won't though. There's no legislating for idiocy. I don't think this guy needs to be told that driving the wrong way down the motorway is both stupid and illegal, but he has decided for whatever reason that's the choice for him.

In short, the only people who currently walk on motorways or drive the wrong way down them are idiots. No ad campaign will stop them.

tweedledee

Again most deaths on Irish roads are not on motorways,all over the world people do crazy stuff on motorways.
In Ireland people know they can get away with doing crazy things in their cars because there are no Police to catch them so the madness continues.
Most accidents happen on our 100 year old,potholed,decrepped,disgraceful by roads and "laneways".Our non-motorways are a disgrace.
The Government will continually try and distract everybodies attention away from the root of the problem by over publicising these expensive ad campaigns.
These ad campaigns will continue to highlight the minor areas where problems exist just to stop the public from asking about the state of our roads.

Capt'n Midnight

runway16 wrote: »

Waste of money my Swiss!

We have spent hundreds of millions widening 2 lane motorways to 3 or 4 lane, only for the idiot population to use lanes 2 and 3 only, meaning the capacity benefits of the extra lanes are being totally wasted.

NOT educating people on how to use these roads properly is what is the REAL waste of money.

Does anyone have information on lane usage statistics on the left lane on the Naas Road southbound ?


With a few tins of white paint we cold convert many hard shoulders on N roads to lanes and in conjunction with enforcing the keep left rule could reduce journey time on many of the N roads quite signifigantly.