Galway roundabouts set for upgrades

left_behind

Taken from the advertiser facebook

Six roundabouts in the city to be upgraded to signalised junctions at a cost of 4m over the next two years. There are serious concerns among councillors that every junction will end up like the junction at Moneen...

This could be a disaster.

Wompa1

Just heard that on the radio...watch this backfire! It's such a dumb idea. They need to think outside of the box. Forget roundabouts and junctions for now...come up with something more significant which can ease the traffic significantly enough so that the junction would work.

I can imagine people coming from Parkmore will face even longer tail backs if it's a junction...but what do I know...I'm not an engineer or a politician

challengemaster

More roadworks obstructing traffic for 2 years, yay!!! :rolleyes:

what_traffic

FYI: This was also discussed a few weeks back in the Galway City boards thread: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056216631

Madame Razz

Galway city council in another stupid traffic decision shocker:rolleyes:

desaparecidos

They should use non slip tarmac on the roundabouts this time round.

Mrs OBumble

Wompa1 wrote: »

come up with something more significant which can ease the traffic significantly enough so that the junction would work.

Buses!

But seriously folks: for pedestrians and cyclists, roundabouts are even more dangerous when traffic is lighter.

I'm in favour of this work.

brianthebard

They must really love that 'most congested city' title, someone ought to tell them its not an award they should be aiming to hold on to....

challengemaster

JustMary wrote: »

Buses!

But seriously folks: for pedestrians and cyclists, roundabouts are even more dangerous when traffic is lighter.

I'm in favour of this work.

How exactly is a roundabout dangerous for a pedestrian? Why are pedestrians trying to use a roundabout? :P

And I've yet to see a cyclist properly use a roundabout instead of cycling onto the paths and around (as they do for all sets of traffic lights)

snubbleste

I think this is an excellent decision.
GCC have realised that they cannot go about spouting that Galway is pedestrian-friendly and encourage more pedestrian traffic unless they provide a safe environment. This is a very traffic friendly decision.


Love this bit

..for every euro spent on the project, there would be a cost benefit of €4. This was created by reduced journey times, health benefits caused by greater levels of exercising and environmental payoffs as a result of fewer emissions.

TristanPeter

challengemaster wrote: »

How exactly is a roundabout dangerous for a pedestrian? Why are pedestrians trying to use a roundabout? :P

Is this a serious question Have you never tried crossing the road at/near a roundabout? People crossing the road at the roundabout at the end of the Quincentennial Bridge next to Tesco practically have to run across it as soon as there's a break in the traffic. It's crazy and it's extremely dangerous. The roundabouts should be much more pedestrian/cyclist friendly.

philbo

challengemaster wrote: »

And I've yet to see a cyclist properly use a roundabout instead of cycling onto the paths and around (as they do for all sets of traffic lights)

exactly. because they know it's instant hospitalisation if they even attempt to use a roundabout. the only time I've ever managed to get around one on my bike is at the back of the hospital, when there was hardly any traffic. Even then, some fool came flying out onto it without feeling the need to pause for a look and nearly took me out of it.

I try to avoid walking anywhere near the quincentennial roundabout. I end up just skipping up the dyke road to avoid trying to cross at the actual junction!

jimbobaloobob

If i remember correctly when the lights were put at moneenageesha it was supposed to allow for free flow out the old dublin road, so in theory if you were at the speed limits you wouldnt get held up.

I dont believe that ever worked and then they added a set of lights as you come out from Mervue Church onto the Dublin Road.

At present there isnt a route across the city not effected by Road works. In this day and age you would imagine they could devise a plan that would focus resources on one route until its finished besides making a mess of traffic flow on all routes.

I dont think they consider the effects on business, not only the ones who have road works outside their door but also businesses outside the city that are dependent on commuting traffic or commuting customers.

snubbleste

Actually philbo, you need to assert yourself more. I know plenty of cyclists who use the roundabouts.
Go into the centre of the lane to prevent the car behind from passing, eyeball any potential wayward motorist..casually saunter through the junction enjoying each cycle of the pedals until you reach your signalled exit and continue.

The only reason roundabouts are so prolific is becasue they are the cheapest junction to create and maintain, however they only take the motorist into account.

McTigs

From galwaynews.ie

studies found that although 24% of residents live less than 2km from work, with 54% living within 4km, 64% of them commuted by car

This my friends is why we have traffic congestion and the sooner everyone wakes up to it the better.

Anything that promotes cycling, buses or walking over getting in a car for such a short commute as 4k is a good idea.

I have no problem cycling through any roundabout but i've been cycling these roads for years but i can see how for anyone new to it would be terrified. And yeah, crossing the road anywhere near a roundabout is pure russian roulette.

antoobrien

philbo wrote: »

exactly. because they know it's instant hospitalisation if they even attempt to use a roundabout. the only time I've ever managed to get around one on my bike is at the back of the hospital, when there was hardly any traffic. Even then, some fool came flying out onto it without feeling the need to pause for a look and nearly took me out of it.

I try to avoid walking anywhere near the quincentennial roundabout. I end up just skipping up the dyke road to avoid trying to cross at the actual junction!

I've used roundabouts as a cyclist for years going to/from college and only had 1 problem before I moved out of town. I used the quincentennial roundabout every morning and cemetary cross roundabout every evening without any issues. The only problem I had was when going around the roundabout @ JJ Flemming's to go out the dual carriageway I was hit by a car who wasn't watching the road - (he'd have hit whatever was on front of him that day). Since they converted that RAB to 3 lanes in on the Tuam road I use the paths, otherwise I cycle on all RABs I use (Galway or Dublin and they're far more ignorant up here).

antoobrien

It's not the roundabouts that are causing the traffic problems, it's the facilities that have to be put in place to allow for local traffic and pedestrians that are causing the traffic to block up the roundabouts. Before we can even think about attacking the traffic problem at roundabouts we need to have a serious systematic look at how and where we
a) allow access to residential areas e.g. renmore
b) provision pedestrian access

If we don't do this, changing the roundabouts to lighted junctions won;t make a dammned bit of difference - the lights at Moneenaghesa are an example of this (anyone I know avoids the Monivea road now unless going to the bank). This is now terrible in light traffic as well as heavy traffic.

I'd be in favour of things like using pedestrian footbridges and lowering the level of the road between Moneenaghesa and Merlin Park in order to remove pedestrian lights. There'd have to be other things as well, such as stopping right turn access at Renmore park and have a serious look at the access to Renmore @ Duggans and Mervue church at Glenina.


As for the Roundabout in Briarhill I have to make a submission to City hall to outline a proposal I made on the previous thread a couple of weeks ago

KevR

Traffic lights work better than roundabouts at peak times in most towns/cities on this earth. Could you imagine if you replaced loads of major traffic light junctions in Dublin, Cork, London, Manchester, Birmingham...etc with roundabouts?! Those places would grind to a halt with roundabouts at most of their major junctions. Traffic lights can be frustrating off-peak when there is little traffic - you can get held up for no real reason.

I think traffic is better through Moneenageisha at peak times now. I don't believe the whole "people avoiding it like the plague" arguement. Moneen could be better though - Galway drivers are way too laid back and slow; GCC should trial an amber warning light just before the green comes on, it's infuriating that some people take 5-8 seconds to start moving when the light goes green. And I'm not sure that they need to allow four right turning movements at Moneen..
People can't stand Moneen because they sometimes get held up a bit longer off-peak.

If Moneenageisha actually was better when it was a roundabout then why not replace the N6/Newcastle Rd junction with a roundabout and all other major crossroad junctions in the city? Other cities would surely follow suit..

PS - upgrading roundabouts to traffic lights is a cheap short term solution. I'm not even sure you could call it a solution, it won't make enough of a difference. They need to look at grade separation, flyovers, pedestrian bridges/underpasses and the Galway Bypass if they are going to give us a solution worth talking about.

brianthebard

challengemaster wrote: »

How exactly is a roundabout dangerous for a pedestrian? Why are pedestrians trying to use a roundabout? :P

And I've yet to see a cyclist properly use a roundabout instead of cycling onto the paths and around (as they do for all sets of traffic lights)

I can use a roundabout perfectly well, better than 90%+ galway drivers. I know not to go stopping in the middle of the roundabout and how to use the lanes correctly as well as how to signal, all basic skills lacking for galway drivers.

what_traffic

Had a look at the plans today. Only available to view in City Hall. They expect it should take under 6 months to construct. Anybody know/remember how long did it take for the 1st phase of the Moneen Roundabout -> Traffic Lights take? (I know the added the Left filter lane from Wellpark during a 2nd phase.)

what_traffic

from http://www.galwaycity.ie/GeneralNews/260511_02.html
on the 26 May 2011

Notice is hereby given that Galway City Council will host a Public Meeting on the proposed changes to the N6 Lynch Roundabout (Briarhill) on Thursday, 2nd June, 2011 at 7.30 p.m. in the Menlo Park Hotel.

also checkout the link:
Bothar na dTreabh (N6) Multi Modal Corridor Improvement Scheme

http://www.galwaycity.ie/GTU/190511_01.html

This would be an absolute disaster, its putting back the roundabout they replaced they should be not getting rid of the other ones. Moneenageisha is a disaster anytime Ive gone near it, and I know plenty who just avoid it altogether. There is even traffic there at off peak time that would never be there with the roundabout.

Also sorry if I offend pedestrians but theses are major road junctions on the outskirts of the city. Roundabouts will work better for cars, lights being better for pedestrians shouldn't really be a consideration as its whats best for car thats important on these major routes into the city.

For the roundabouts that have a bigger number of pedestrians I would just put a zebra crossing 50 yards or so before the roundabout, this would be the least inconvenience to cars as they only have to stop when there is someone crossing not waiting looking at pedestrian lights on a sequence with no one crossing and going mad. It would also give a perfectly safe place to cross the roads so best of both worlds.

dloob

Was reading in the tribune the engineers will be doing a presentation in the Menlo on June 2nd.
They expect at least a 15% reduction in journey times with the junctions.
They say they have the before and after traffic flow figures to prove that moneenageshia now has a 15% reduction in time it takes to get through it.

seabre

dloob wrote: »

Was reading in the tribune the engineers will be doing a presentation in the Menlo on June 2nd.
They expect at least a 15% reduction in journey times with the junctions.
They say they have the before and after traffic flow figures to prove that moneenageshia now has a 15% reduction in time it takes to get through it.

Perhaps This is due to the fact that people go out of their way to avoid using it!

Mrs OBumble

Dream Modern Bowler wrote: »

For the roundabouts that have a bigger number of pedestrians I would just put a zebra crossing 50 yards or so before the roundabout, this would be the least inconvenience to cars as they only have to stop when there is someone crossing not waiting looking at pedestrian lights on a sequence with no one crossing and going mad. It would also give a perfectly safe place to cross the roads so best of both worlds.

Ahh, yeah, I can see that now. Walking 50 yards down the hard shoulder on the dual carriageway between Briarhill RAB and the Morris RAB, so I can cross the road more safely. That's gonna work. :rolleyes:

Mrs OBumble

what_traffic wrote: »

from http://www.galwaycity.ie/GeneralNews/260511_02.html
on the 26 May 2011

Notice is hereby given that Galway City Council will host a Public Meeting on the proposed changes to the N6 Lynch Roundabout (Briarhill) on Thursday, 2nd June, 2011 at 7.30 p.m. in the Menlo Park Hotel.

also checkout the link:
Bothar na dTreabh (N6) Multi Modal Corridor Improvement Scheme

http://www.galwaycity.ie/GTU/190511_01.html

Am I the only one who thinks it's rather odd that this this meeting is being held half-way across the city from the RAB in question?

Sure meeting rooms at the Clayton are probably more expensive, but if you're going to consult about a neighbourhood, wouldn't it make sense to do so in that neighbourhood so that the locals can attend????

antoobrien

JustMary wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks it's rather odd that this this meeting is being held half-way across the city from the RAB in question?

Sure meeting rooms at the Clayton are probably more expensive, but if you're going to consult about a neighbourhood, wouldn't it make sense to do so in that neighbourhood so that the locals can attend????

They don't want the locals attending, they might hear ideas that make sense - lights at briarhill definitely don't make sense. What they need to do there is:
Close off the Monivea road exit (outbound) from the RAB. Build a road in through the business park to come out in the scrubland beside western motors and put a RAB at the current entrance to the park.
Build a pedestrian overpass over the dual carriageways onto the roundabouts (I can't remember if anyone objected to the tunnel, but everyone in the area knew it wasn't going to be used).
Create a mini roundabout at the entrance to the Clayton or Doughiska and don't allow right turns into and out of Dunnes (similar to the set up of the retail park in Moneenagesha pre lights, if you want to turn right coming out, use the RAB).

Your solution to a congested roundabout is to add two more?

Iwannahurl

Dream Modern Bowler wrote: »

Also sorry if I offend pedestrians but theses are major road junctions on the outskirts of the city. Roundabouts will work better for cars, lights being better for pedestrians shouldn't really be a consideration as its whats best for car thats important on these major routes into the city.

For the roundabouts that have a bigger number of pedestrians I would just put a zebra crossing 50 yards or so before the roundabout, this would be the least inconvenience to cars as they only have to stop when there is someone crossing not waiting looking at pedestrian lights on a sequence with no one crossing and going mad. It would also give a perfectly safe place to cross the roads so best of both worlds.

This is what most of the pro-roundabout rhetoric is about, IMO. Cars, cars, cars. The day of road pricing/congestion charging can't come soon enough, I reckon.

Question for those who are happy to prioritise private cars at the expense of pedestrians and cyclists.

In terms of public transport efficiency (and priority) at peak traffic times, what are the advantages and disadvantages of traffic lights versus roundabouts?

ciotog

Dream Modern Bowler wrote: »

Also sorry if I offend pedestrians but theses are major road junctions on the outskirts of the city. Roundabouts will work better for cars, lights being better for pedestrians shouldn't really be a consideration as its whats best for car thats important on these major routes into the city.

For the roundabouts that have a bigger number of pedestrians I would just put a zebra crossing 50 yards or so before the roundabout, this would be the least inconvenience to cars as they only have to stop when there is someone crossing not waiting looking at pedestrian lights on a sequence with no one crossing and going mad. It would also give a perfectly safe place to cross the roads so best of both worlds.

The notion that traffic planning should be about causing the least inconvenience to cars is ridiculous. It's a culture that has brought us to the era of massive congestion and motor travel for even the shortest distances. I don't disagree that zebra crossings are a viable alternative to lights but the notion that they should be located for the convenience of the motorist instead of the pedestrian is flawed planning and a waste of money.

Iwannahurl

VISSIM videos on this City Council webpage: http://www.galwaycity.ie/GTU/Model.html

Would be handy on YouTube.

antoobrien

Deleted User wrote: »

Your solution to a congested roundabout is to add two more?

I think that's a blinkered view and you should sit back and take a look at the road system in the area. The actual proposal aimed at removing two of the causes of the congestion and give the traffic space to move. The full solution requires the GCOB to take cross town traffic away from the roundabout entirely. Merely slapping a set of lights at the roundabout isn't going to help these two issues, in fact it'll probably make it worse.

I'm from the area so I've an idea of what is going on at Briarhill. I've also seen what too many sets of traffic lights and right turns do to a road - they turn it into a carpark at peak times and just annoy you at off peak times. When I'm in the Dublin office I refuse to use the car at peak times, and cycle to work if possible. Interestingly due to the amount of traffic lights it actually takes the same time to cycle as drive to the office when there's no traffic (I haven't driven at peak times but I'd guess it takes twice as long to drive). There are an awful lot of junctions in Dublin where right turns are not allowed for traffic reasons, I think this should be considered here (hence the suggestion about Dunnes).

A lot of the congestion at Briarhill is caused by the traffic trying to get out the Monivea Road but being stopped by the traffic lights and backing up onto the RAB causing further backlogs on the DC. The major problem here is the fact that there's so little room between the RAB & lights (about 100 yards). When the DC was originally built that road should have been re-routed into the junction & the Monivea road exit closed off entirely, I'm just proposing they do it 15 years late. Creating the link road gives us an extra 150 odd yards to play with, which will help improve the situation (but is not a solution).

Alternatively close it off anyways and anyone that want to use Parkmore or access the Monivea road can go out the Tuam road or Dual Carriageway to Glennascaul (I'm from the area, I wouldn't mind the detour much, it'd probably be safer too), but that's nearly as bad a suggestion as putting lights there in place of the roundabout.

The second suggestion is aimed at tackling the mess that is the Dunnes entrance/exit (which should never have gotten permission for that entrance). Preventing right turns would help, but

Along the way we'll get a system of junctions that is closer to being able to handle the traffic (a level it shouldn't have because the motorway was designed work in conjunction with the GCOB not drop it off at Briarhill).

As an added benefit it will take pedestrians & cyclists off the RAB entirely making it safer for everyone.

The current proposal just looks like an engineering companies dream payday but a road user's nightmare.

Iwannahurl

"...a road user's nightmare."

Last point first: again I reckon the term "road user" is automatically taken by many people to mean "car driver". There is an underlying assumption in our current traffic and transport culture that the car is king.

One reason that traffic lights -- and roundabouts -- are associated with traffic congestion in certain circumstances is that there is a limit to the amount of traffic that any junction can handle.

Theoretically one way of reducing traffic in Galway City would be to build a bypass. There are two major caveats with this proposal, however. The first is that the true purpose of the GCOB may not be traffic reduction but development expansion. The second is the well-established and well-recognised principle that building more roads does not reduce traffic in the long run; quite the opposite in fact.

The developer-led "planning" in Galway City (Doughiska/Briarhill being just one example) has been partly responsible for the traffic congestion in the area. One way to reduce private car traffic (which ought to be #1 priority IMO) in this locality, apart from cordon charging if feasible, is to provide for much greater use of public transport and cycling.

I am still waiting for a considered response from the pro-roundabout people regarding how such "free flow" junctions can allow buses to be prioritised in order to make sure that public transport more than holds its own against the private car. To the best of my knowledge there is no roundabout design that can prioritise buses in the way traffic signals can.

Since much of traffic and transport policy and debate has been premised on the apparently dearly-held principle that people "like" using their cars (as has been stated by Galway Chamber of Commerce for example) there is a clear need IMO for both incentives and disincentives aimed at reducing private car use. Such measures would directly address those motorists who currently would rather chew their own arm off than get out of the car.

To date provision for cycling to, from and within the area has been a sick joke. The Doughiska "cycle paths" are so ludicrous they actually featured in Warrington Cycling Campaign's internationally famous Cycle Facility of the Month website. The photo below was accompanied by this acerbic caption:

"Inspired by this example from Harlow, Galway City Council have created this even more ambitious scheme on Doughiska Road. Unfortunately, the cost of erecting Cyclists Dismount signs at the 18 junctions, 41 private drives and 12 bus stops interrupting this 1.4km shared use pavement proved prohibitive, so they had to compromise by painting Give Way markings on the pavement."

Mrs OBumble

antoobrien wrote: »

Close off the Monivea road exit (outbound) from the RAB. Build a road in through the business park to come out in the scrubland beside western motors and put a RAB at the current entrance to the park.

Umm, through which business park - the one that's on the other side of the dual carriageway from Monivea Rd? So that means anyone going from Doughiska to Parkmore has to go practically all the way to the Morris RAB to get onto a road thru the junction. Clever ...

Oh, and having all the trucks that make deliveries to Dunnes drive all the way down there (away from where they're going) or all the way down the Doughiska Rd suburban ... equally clever.

antoobrien

JustMary wrote: »

Umm, through which business park - the one that's on the other side of the dual carriageway from Monivea Rd? So that means anyone going from Doughiska to Parkmore has to go practically all the way to the Morris RAB to get onto a road thru the junction. Clever ...

Don't take this the wrong way but you don't seem to know the RAB at all, do you use the junction at all? Briahill Business Park is accessed (indirectly) from the Monivea road. The entrance is about 100 years away form those blasted lights on the Monivea road (which seem to go red every time I approach them not matter which side I come from). You don't even know where Western Motors is. I'd put up a map to display this but I uploading images seems to be disabled on here, so I'll quote myself here again to help try clarify this (slightly edited to remove extraneous opinion and make it clearer).

antoobrien wrote: »

Close off the Monivea road exit (outbound) from the RAB. Build a road in through the business park to come out in the scrubland beside western motors and put a RAB at the current entrance to the park. (edit this means that the Monivea road traffic goes the other side of western motors in a loop around to where the lights are)
Build a pedestrian overpass over the dual carriageways onto the roundabouts
Create a mini roundabout at the entrance to the Clayton or Doughiska and don't allow right turns into and out of Dunnes (similar to the set up of the retail park in Moneenagesha pre lights, if you want to turn right coming out, use the RAB).

The entrance I proposed would be between the dual Carriageway (westbound) and the current Monivea road exit and only affect traffic using Parkmore & the Monivea road.

antoobrien wrote: »

Oh, and having all the trucks that make deliveries to Dunnes drive all the way down there (away from where they're going) or all the way down the Doughiska Rd suburban ... equally clever.

What on gods good earth are you talking about? The proposal wouldn't affect the traffic from Doughiska or deliveries to Dunnes, which already has to go behind the center. So that means that the trucks are already either going through Doughiska or turning at the junction from the Briarhill end, which is a tight fit for the #9 bus.

I'm proposing adding an RAB within a hundred yards of the shopping center (which the entrance to the Clayton effectively is at some times of the day) to make getting into and out of Dunnes easier, while also attempting to cut down on backups onto the RAB, which do happen reasonably frequently. I'm not proposing sending any extra traffic down Doughiska. IMO putting a proper junction in here can only help access to both the center and Doughiska.

Btb the current city council plan doesn't seem to allow for the proposed Tesco development at the lights on the Monivea road (which I believe has PP for an entrance onto the lights).

johnnyk66

Btb the current city council plan doesn't seem to allow for the proposed Tesco development at the lights on the Monivea road (which I believe has PP for an entrance onto the lights).[/QUOTE]

There is no PP for tesco at this location:rolleyes:

sgthighway

What will the traffic be like in the evening times when most of it will be coming out of Parkmore and Ballybrit Ind Est.?

Iwannahurl

sgthighway wrote: »

What will the traffic be like in the evening times when most of it will be coming out of Parkmore and Ballybrit Ind Est.?

A good example of peak time traffic congestion, and its effect on non-car modes of travel.

I used to work in that area once upon a time, and I recall that there were long lines of traffic queueing for the lights near Western Motors. The buses got stuck in this traffic, and elsewhere along their route, and were frequently very late. I recall one occasion when I arrived at the bus stop at 16:55 and had to wait until 17:55 for a bus service advertised as running every 15 minutes. That's a typical reduction in the level of service for bus users caused by excess volumes of private cars, along with infrastructure (such as roundabouts) that force buses to mix with cars and lose the advantages that public transport ought to have.

QBCs and bus priority traffic signals are therefore needed to stop such situations occurring.

My own solution was to cycle, only resorting to the bus during the worst weather. Oh the joy of sailing past stalled traffic in Parkmore, along Lough Atalia Road and round by the Docks... :pac:

Mrs OBumble

antoobrien wrote: »

Don't take this the wrong way but you don't seem to know the RAB at all, do you use the junction at all? Briahill Business Park is accessed (indirectly) from the Monivea road. The entrance is about 100 years away form those blasted lights on the Monivea road (which seem to go red every time I approach them not matter which side I come from). You don't even know where Western Motors is. I'd put up a map to display this but I uploading images seems to be disabled on here, so

I do know the area very well - well enough to know that the entrance Briarhill Business Park is off Parkmore Rd, not Monivea Rd, and it's actually about 500 ft = 166 yards from the lights. (Yes, I measured it on google maps ... )

NB maps is here: http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=216643625317569454845.0004a486b835aa7f9985a&ll=53.291848,-8.984671&spn=0.014955,0.044975&z=15
we've never been able to paste images of maps into boards AFAIK.


I've realised that you are I are talking about different places: when you say Monivea Rd, you actually mean the bit of road that Google maps calls Ballybrit. (This may or may not be the right name for it, I know - Google is still calling Parkmore Rd "Ballybrit Crescent"). I thought you meant the western bit, which is why your proposal didn't make any sense to me.

I've now gone back and read your suggestions in light of what I now know about what you mean.

The improvement outside the shopping centre / Clayton bit makes sense.

But I can't see what difference it would make to close off the Monivea Rd exit from the RAB: the bulk of the traffic along that road is going to or from Parkmore Industrial estate, and making them loop thru yet another business park to get to work from the motorway in the morning won't change anything. And they'll still be held up in the afternoon by people coming along from town and Ballybrit industrial estate.

Iwannahurl

Iwannahurl wrote: »

A good example of peak time traffic congestion, and its effect on non-car modes of travel.

I used to work in that area once upon a time, and I recall that there were long lines of traffic queueing for the lights near Western Motors. The buses got stuck in this traffic, and elsewhere along their route, and were frequently very late. I recall one occasion when I arrived at the bus stop at 16:55 and had to wait until 17:55 for a bus service advertised as running every 15 minutes. That's a typical reduction in the level of service for bus users caused by excess volumes of private cars, along with infrastructure (such as roundabouts) that force buses to mix with cars and lose the advantages that public transport ought to have.

QBCs and bus priority traffic signals are therefore needed to stop such situations occurring.

My own solution was to cycle, only resorting to the bus during the worst weather. Oh the joy of sailing past stalled traffic in Parkmore, along Lough Atalia Road and round by the Docks... :pac:

At the end of the day cars are still going to be transporting the vast majority of people so why should we slow progress of cars so half empty buses can get places faster.

You cant compare a city like galway to other big citys when it comes to public transport, its just not suitable for a very large number of people. For instance all the people that come in from around the county (and farther). The car is always going to be the only practical option for these.

ciotog

Dream Modern Bowler wrote: »

At the end of the day cars are still going to be transporting the vast majority of people so why should we slow progress of cars so half empty buses can get places faster.

You cant compare a city like galway to other big citys when it comes to public transport, its just not suitable for a very large number of people. For instance all the people that come in from around the county (and farther). The car is always going to be the only practical option for these.

Cars shouldn't be transporting the vast majority - it's grossly inefficient. Look at the last census figures for distances travelled: http://census.cso.ie/Census/TableViewer/tableView.aspx?ReportId=110513 . There are huge numbers of people travelling short distances that are ideal for walking, cycling and public transport (or a combination).

what_traffic

Dream Modern Bowler wrote: »

You cant compare a city like galway to other big citys when it comes to public transport, its just not suitable for a very large number of people.

True - but you can compare it with similar sized towns. Dont see any references to a major city in this thread?

apoeiguq3094y

it could be worse!, here's a novel approach in china.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cj4LrSxjTIM

The advantage of lights is that everyone is held up. On a roundabout only some people are held up.

Caliden

Saw something about this on the news and laughed when I heard it say that it would encourage people to cycle to work.
The only reason there's so much traffic is because alot fo the workforce are well outside the city limits

ciotog

Caliden wrote: »

Saw something about this on the news and laughed when I heard it say that it would encourage people to cycle to work.
The only reason there's so much traffic is because alot fo the workforce are well outside the city limits

What about all the motor vehicles travelling short distances? See the link I posted above to the statistics from the 2006 census.

what_traffic

what_traffic wrote: »

True - but you can compare it with similar sized towns. Dont see any references to a major city in this thread?

Its what people have in their head though, big citys where everyone live in densely populated areas where bus stops and underground stations etc are suitable for everyone.

A place like galway a lot of people travel in from around the country side where it would never be practical nor really desired by people to have public transport at a level which could accommodate a large number of commuters.

To be honest if I had free parking at my job I would always chose the car unless I lived within around 10 minutes walk. I like to have the freedom to leave for work, come home when I want not when a bus timetable dictates, I like to sit in a comfortable car rather than an uncomfortable bus, I want to be able to take detour somewhere on the way home if I chose, I like being able to go for a spin at lunch etc.

what_traffic

Dream Modern Bowler wrote: »

Its what people I have in their my head though

Corrected that opening sentence for ya.
You have to start thinking small and not just focused on public transport. Start by getting people walking, cycling and using existing public transport. FYI Just increasing frequency of existing bus services in the city has had a positive effect in Galway. Look at the NO 9 Doughiska service as an example of this.

Iwannahurl

Dream Modern Bowler wrote: »

At the end of the day cars are still going to be transporting the vast majority of people so why should we slow progress of cars so half empty buses can get places faster.

You cant compare a city like galway to other big citys when it comes to public transport, its just not suitable for a very large number of people. For instance all the people that come in from around the county (and farther). The car is always going to be the only practical option for these.

1. Cars are not transporting "the vast majority of people" in Galway City.

2. Many if not most cars are transporting a single occupant over distances that would be suitable for other modes of transport.

3. A single-occupant car is a grossly inefficient use of the finite road space available (not to mention the grotesque waste of finite fossil fuel due to the gross inefficiency of the internal combustion engine).

4. There are other cities in Europe not vastly bigger than Galway with better public transport systems, better control of private car use and better provision for cycling and walking.

5. We should promote the use of transport modes other than the single-occupant private car because it is more rational and sustainable than the alternative, ie growth in car dependence.

Iwannahurl

Dream Modern Bowler wrote: »

To be honest if I had free parking at my job I would always chose the car unless I lived within around 10 minutes walk. I like to have the freedom to leave for work, come home when I want not when a bus timetable dictates, I like to sit in a comfortable car rather than an uncomfortable bus, I want to be able to take detour somewhere on the way home if I chose, I like being able to go for a spin at lunch etc.

This is why Galway City needs road pricing/cordon charging asap.

Iwannahurl

Iwannahurl wrote: »

This is why Galway City needs road pricing/cordon charging asap.

Road pricing can feck off so it can. Its pure nonsense nanny state crap trying to force people out of their cars. Car users already pay enough in tax etc, thats whys we pay it. Luckily opinions like your are rare enough in these parts and any attempt to introduce road pricing will be met with fierce opposition.

What about people who travel in from outside the city, why should they have to pay the extra cost of road pricing or go through the hardship and inconvenience of trying to use public transport when driving in makes much more sense. Serving sparsely populated areas with public transport to the level of freedom given by a car is impossible.

Is it any wonder I detest public transport when its supporters would like to see car users robbed of their hard earned cash for the pleasure of using the roads build to drive their cars on.

Car users pay much more already than non car users, VRT and VAT on purchase of the car, VAT and excise on petrol, VAT on parts, keep mechanics in work etc etc. This is much more than enough to entitle us to use our cars as we want.

Iwannahurl

Dream Modern Bowler wrote: »

Road pricing can feck off so it can. Its pure nonsense nanny state crap trying to force people out of their cars. Car users already pay enough in tax etc, thats whys we pay it. Luckily opinions like your are rare enough in these parts and any attempt to introduce road pricing will be met with fierce opposition.

What about people who travel in from outside the city, why should they have to pay the extra cost or go through the hardship and inconvenience of trying to use public transport when driving in makes much more sense. Serving sparsely populated areas with public transport to the level of freedom given by a car is impossible.

Is it any wonder I detest public transport when its supporters would like to see car users robbed of their hard earned cash for the pleasure of using the roads build to drive their cars on.

Car users pay much more already than non car users, VRT and VAT on purchase of the car, VAT and excise on petrol, VAT on parts, keep mechanics in work etc etc. This is much more than enough to entitle us to use our cars as we want.

Lots of things in this country are no wonder at all if the above opinions are commonplace.

This is the Galway City forum, by the way.