Public Service Announcement! Pine nuts.

pinksoir

Howdy.

About a week ago myself and my girlfriend started getting a horrible bitter taste each time we'd eat or drink something flavourful. It was really weird and I couldn't understand why it was happening. It was foul, about a minute after having something in my gob I'd get this really strong bitter, metallic-like taste in my mouth.

So I did the usual aul google to find out what it was. At first I thought it might be some sort of weird brain thing affecting my taste. I couldn't find much but I did come across an Yahoo questions page dealy and one of the answers was that it's caused by pine nuts.

So I did some more investigation and it's a weird condition that's been happening for the last ten years called 'pine mouth syndrome'. the bitterness can last anything from 2 days to 2 weeks. Nobody knows what causes it or why it affects some people and not others. They do know that of all the cases they have been able to trace, it seems to originate in pine nuts from certain areas of China and Korea, possibly from either a type of pine nut that is inedible, or from pine nuts that have been stored improperly causing the oils to go rancid.

So if you have a weird sensation of bitterness when you eat, that's what it is. I don't think I'll take the chance of eating them again, even though I like them, because it really is nasty. I also think that because it affects the liver, it caused me to be sick after only a few pints the other night.

http://bodyodd.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2010/06/03/4452626-pine-mouth-syndrome-leaves-a-bitter-taste

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2010-03-16-Pinemouth16_ST_N.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine_nut#Risks_of_eating_pine_nuts

olaola

Yeah! Heard of this before, has happened to a few friends.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/health/2010/1102/1224282478474.html

It can happen with pestos that are made with these nuts too. I think the people I've known who this has happened to, the nuts came from Tesco.

"The suspect species of pine nuts are smaller, duller, and more rounded than typical pine nuts"

pinksoir

Apparently it's no one supermarket. Mine came from Aldi.

But yeah, no pesto...

wonderfulname

Don't give up on the pesto! Replace the pine nuts in whatever recipe you use with pistachios, trust me, I'm not a crazy person, its actually good.

If you don't make your own pesto this is only a good thing for making you start.

watna

Pesto with cashew nuts is also yum - cheaper than pine nuts too. I don't know about Ireland but where I am you can buy pesto made with cashews as well.

jendafer1

No way!!! This is weird because about 2 weeks ago I fell in love with a new salad that my local place does for lunch that includes pine nuts in it. Now I did have this weird metallic taste thing on and off since then - I kinda thought it was cos I had a bit of a chest infection... but now I'm thinking it could be the pine nuts. I also eat a lot of pesto... I've never heard this before though so thanks for enlightening us!

Acoshla

Yep this happened my mother before Christmas, she thought she was going mad until she googled the horrible taste symptom, turned out she'd eaten a few handfuls of pine nuts a week earlier while making a stir fry with them in it!

snickerpuss

OP, you've now ruined my love of pine nuts!
I'm terrified I'm going to get this.

pinksoir

You should be... you should be...!

songbirds

Hi there, yes I am another victim of Pine Mouth as a result of making pesto made from pine nuts which originated in China. I have reported this to the Food Safety Authority of Ireland and expect to hear from them soon regarding latest update. The FSAI have confirmed it is NOT a health threat, but obviously I will be avoiding pine nuts in future. I will probably try making pesto with other nuts in future. I have had this "bitter taste" in my mouth for the past week. Has anyone discovered how to reduce this problem or does it just finally disappear?

Just to mention that these nuts were sourced in Musgraves and the brand name was Buchanan Food (I think they are in Newry).

jendafer1

Mine just went away after 2-3 weeks.. and nothing helped. Drinking water made it worse though! (I guess cos water has no flavour at all)

quaalude

watna wrote: »

Pesto with cashew nuts is also yum - cheaper than pine nuts too. I don't know about Ireland but where I am you can buy pesto made with cashews as well.

This is just how I make pesto - cashews in pesto taste nicer (IMO) and are half the price of pine nuts.

the beer revolu

I like Brazil nuts in pesto - you can use any nuts, really!

Faith

Has anyone experienced similar from eating an excess of garlic?

olaola

Faith wrote: »

Has anyone experienced similar from eating an excess of garlic?

No, and I eat a LOT of garlic.

vibe666

olaola wrote: »

No, and I eat a LOT of garlic.

same here, i'm like an anti-vampire when it comes to garlic, we go through tons of the stuff, usually bought in supervalu, tesco, aldi & lidl and no ill effects here so far, touch wood.

Faith

I've never had any ill-effects either, but I ask because my mum had a taste in her mouth very much like the one described for months. She had loads of tests done and no physical reason could be found for it. She used eat a raw garlic clove every night for health reasons (rather than take garlic tablets), and when she stopped eating that, the taste went away. She'd already tried cutting out everything else, so it seems like the raw garlic was related.

Gauge

Might be to do with the fact the cloves are raw- I've never had an issue with cooked garlic but I accidentally bit into a whole raw clove the other night (it managed to escape the food processor blade somehow) and yikes, I literally couldn't sleep that night due to the awful taste in my mouth. It lasted around 2 days and it was really unpleasant.

I've also experienced this pine mouth thing before! I couldn't figure it out. I was experiencing the most nasty, bitter taste in my mouth all the time no matter what I was eating. Then I happened to stumble upon the article but it still didn't make any sense because I never eat pine nuts- turns out the little raisin/seed packs I was buying from Aldi and using with my breakfast every morning had pine nuts in them! Haven't touched them since. It went away within a couple of days when I stopped using them.

I wouldn't eat a lot of pesto or anything else that contains pine nuts so I haven't had experienced it since. But it was an odd experience, I'd never even heard of such a thing!

amandausa

I switched to using walnuts in my pesto years ago - I think they provide a similar taste / consistency to pesto that pine nuts do

songbirds

Hi all,
Finally can taste my food again. FSAI (Food Safety Authority of Ireland) have issued a "RASFF (Rapid Alert System for Food and Feed) notification which is sent by Member States when a food, feed or food contact material is presenting a risk to the market and when rapid action is required. These alerts are issued by the Member State that detects the problem".

That's fine so long as the supplier takes account and complies. What about the poor consumer! Never eating pine nuts again and am more particular that I ask where food comes from before buying anything unusual. Only ever used pine nuts in cooking once before, but have eaten commercial pesto with no problem. It's about time prepacked food carried a country of origin to give consumers a choice.

Such a waste of my lovely harvest of basil and an expensive lesson to make (other ingredients such as Parmesan) - had to throw the lot in the bin!

Honey-ec

songbirds wrote: »

Hi all,
Finally can taste my food again. FSAI (Food Safety Authority of Ireland) have issued a "RASFF (Rapid Alert System for Food and Feed) notification which is sent by Member States when a food, feed or food contact material is presenting a risk to the market and when rapid action is required. These alerts are issued by the Member State that detects the problem".

That's fine so long as the supplier takes account and complies. What about the poor consumer! Never eating pine nuts again and am more particular that I ask where food comes from before buying anything unusual. Only ever used pine nuts in cooking once before, but have eaten commercial pesto with no problem. It's about time prepacked food carried a country of origin to give consumers a choice.

Such a waste of my lovely harvest of basil and an expensive lesson to make (other ingredients such as Parmesan) - had to throw the lot in the bin!

I can understand you're annoyed, but it's a bit of an overreaction to swear off all pine nuts for the rest of your life, imho. I've been eating pine nuts for years without ever experiencing pine mouth, so in the grand scheme of things, it's obviously only a tiny percentage of nuts that are affected.

Pine nuts can go rancid, yes, but the easiest way to check for this is simply to taste one or two of them before lobbing the whole packet into something. If you buy a pack and it's rancid on opening, just return it and ask for a refund.

jendafer1

Honey-ec wrote: »

I can understand you're annoyed, but it's a bit of an overreaction to swear off all pine nuts for the rest of your life, imho. I've been eating pine nuts for years without ever experiencing pine mouth, so in the grand scheme of things, it's obviously only a tiny percentage of nuts that are affected.

Pine nuts can go rancid, yes, but the easiest way to check for this is simply to taste one or two of them before lobbing the whole packet into something. If you buy a pack and it's rancid on opening, just return it and ask for a refund.

I dont think its anything to do with gone off pine nuts - its where the pine nuts come from. Apparently theres a few inedible rogue species coming from Asia which are believed to cause this pine mouth phenomenon. I got pine mouth a few months ago but have by no means stopped eating pine nuts. In fact I love pesto and eat large quantities of it and I havent experienced pine mouth a second time. (The first time was from a salad at a local place which had pine nuts in it). I am annoyed that the commercially available pestos do not specify where the pine nuts have come from but I've had no problems (so far) with the tesco brand that I have been buying.

songbirds

Honey-ec wrote: »

I can understand you're annoyed, but it's a bit of an overreaction to swear off all pine nuts for the rest of your life, imho. I've been eating pine nuts for years without ever experiencing pine mouth, so in the grand scheme of things, it's obviously only a tiny percentage of nuts that are affected.

Pine nuts can go rancid, yes, but the easiest way to check for this is simply to taste one or two of them before lobbing the whole packet into something. If you buy a pack and it's rancid on opening, just return it and ask for a refund.

Hi Honey-ec - when you get this "pine mouth" let me know what you think! You are right though, it is probably only a small percentage of nuts that are affected, however, the problem is not detectable upon opening the packet, in fact it took a couple of hours for me to be aware of the bitter aftertaste. In fact, I believed it was from a bottle of red wine which I thought was rancid (which was thrown down the sink). However, it was when this horrible taste occurred even when drinking water (which has not taste) or eating a plain piece of bread that I began to suspect something was wrong. So tasting the nuts beforehand just doesn't work! It does seem that the species of nut is at fault, and NOT EVERYONE is similarly affected. This phenomenon was first reported in 2001 but still consumers are being affected by these rogue nuts. Until prepacked foods have a country of origin the consumer just doesn't have a choice!!! So I will be avoiding these nuts in future - once is enough for me!

Honey-ec

songbirds wrote: »

Until prepacked foods have a country of origin the consumer just doesn't have a choice!!! So I will be avoiding these nuts in future - once is enough for me!

The Real Olive Co. at the Temple Bar food market sell loose pine nuts and I'm sure they'd tell you where they're sourced, if you asked. It just seems such a shame to have to swear off pine nuts altogether if you really like them!

keledward12

Wow, that is so odd, I'll be wary of pine nuts from now on

MagicMoose

Do you know what pine mouth is? Me neither until just now.

Yesterday I bought a 2.99 salad bowl from Tesco which I loaded up with pesto pasta, and some other pastas and things. Pesto pasta contains pinenuts, basil and cheese.

I bit into something foul amongst all this and ever since when I'm eating I've get this rank taste in mouth which makes everything taste like its been dusted with iron fillings, dead dog and limberger cheese.

I thought a filling had gone until I googled it to check. Apparently its a common side effect of cheap inedible / rancid pine nuts being mixed in with the edible ones. I just hope it doesn't last long but apparently the symptoms can last two weeks.

I guess the moral is don't eat iffy looking pinenuts, and if my case is not isolated perhaps Tesco should be having strong words with their supplier.

dudara

I've seen this discussd before in the Food & Drink forum, so I'll move it there.

dudara

emeraldstar

Recent thread here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056235079

wmpdd3

I never heard of that but i love pine nuts, will be looking out from now on...... 2 weeks!

The Hill Billy

Threads merged.

tHB

shayg1971

Yup, I had this a coulple of years ago. Took about 3 weeks to subside completely. I remember from research at the time that nuts from China were to be avoided, and that the averge persistence ranged from 2 - 6 weeks.

On the plus side, there may be a diet pill opportunity here, as it's sweet stuff that really triggers the metalic/cheesy/ear-waxy taste!

I found that a gargle or drink of bicarb of soda would partially neutralize it for a short time. Something like Andrews.

Gordon

Never had it but I've stopped eating pine nuts these days as they're so expensive compared to other nuts and grains that are just as nice IMO!