Now a THIRD GoSafe van is torched

Amtmann

See here. That's the third one set alight. They've now been vandalised in Wexford, Louth and Donegal.

Is this the work of three sociopaths or just one wide-ranging sociopath? I understand the frustration at being caught speeding by one of these vans, but to actually destroy one goes beyond criminal behaviour. What is the cost-benefit analysis of the action from the arsonist's point of view? Surely there cannot really be one.

-Chris-

Quick note: it is NOT ok to say things like "burn them all", "pity they didn't get the guy inside too" or anything like that. Posts advocating violence or criminal damage will lead to bans.

PeakOutput

Tremelo wrote: »

See here. That's the third one set alight. They've now been vandalised in Wexford, Louth and Donegal.

Is this the work of three sociopaths or just one wide-ranging sociopath? I understand the frustration at being caught speeding by one of these vans, but to actually destroy one goes beyond criminal behaviour. What is the cost-benefit analysis of the action from the arsonist's point of view? Surely there cannot really be one.

until now i didnt think it was an organised attack but 3 in relatively quick succession is pretty suspect alright

it could be the same person alright and if that is the case I would say the motivation is simple a high profile target for a arsonist. he probably believes that because people hate the idea of the vans they will condone the burning of them and he will get some sort of support (which may or may not be true)

L1011

There has to be a point where their insurance will become untenable at this rate?

Cookie_Monster

although I'd never condone it as people could get hurt I can't help smiling a little whenever I hear about one of them going up.

You can kind of expect that kind of backlash when the gov start to privatise law enforcement.

2qk4u

We dont like penalty points and fines or the sneaky way they try catch us but an arson attack on one of these vans with an employee inside is attempted murder in my opinion and if someone is caught they should be punished accordingly .

NIMAN

I drove past this burnt out van yesterday and I couldnt believe it - mindless thugs.

If something thinks its smart or the right thing to do to set light to a van while someone is inside then it shows their mentality. If the law catches up with them I hope they are dealt with properly and get punished heavily for it. Its all a laugh until someone suffers serious burns, or worse.

And slightly embarrassed that some (if not many) would condone this in Donegal, after all we have been through with road deaths. There is a lawless element on our roads up here who want to drive how they feel with no concern for others.

couldntthink

I would shake the persons hand and give him a lend of a lighter if he needed it. However it is wrong to set them alight if there is someone in it, afterall he's just doing his job, but I do class the operators in the same league as traffic wardens.

I think it is wrong to privatise any form of law enforcement.

Also, there are just as many accidents caused by people who drive too slow, it's high time these incompetent "motorists" were targeted too.

Amtmann

I just want to point out that law enforcement has not been privatised here. The GoSafe vans simply report speeding to the police. It is then up to the police to take action, i.e. to enforce the law.

-Chris-

-Chris- wrote: »

Quick note: it is NOT ok to say things like "burn them all", "pity they didn't get the guy inside too" or anything like that. Posts advocating violence or criminal damage will lead to bans.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

...I can't help smiling a little whenever I hear about one of them going up.

couldntthink wrote: »

I would shake the persons hand and give him a lend of a lighter if he needed it...

These posts = not ok (or very, very borderline).

More posts like these = infraction/ban.

Is that simple enough for everyone??

corktina

what ever people may say on the Internet, reduce speed and you reduce the severity of accidents.
The point of these vans is to educate drivers to drive slower. If the point of them is Tax Revenue (and Lord knows we need it from every possible source), then isnt that a bit self defeating to use a source where the take will be decreasing as people wise-up?

Only a matter of time now until speed limits are reduced further as oil prices rise....

CiaranC

Theres a line where people just wont take this crap off the state. I guess these mobile spy cams crossed it.

monument

CiaranC wrote: »

Theres a line where people just wont take this crap off the state. I guess these mobile spy cams crossed it.

You should be ashamed of your self.

Yet another case of attempted murder and you are again in a roundabout way defending the attack. You previous posted the clip from Clerks which makes out that contractors know the risks, referring to independent contractors the video ends in "if they got kill, it's their own fault..."

Take a step back and try to remember there's actually another human in the van.

fly_agaric

IMO it gives the lie to alot of the ostentatious grief every time there's a bad accident involving speeding on rural roads.

Some people really, really love speeding on these roads and get murderously angry if their "rights" to do so without getting penalty points/fines/bannings etc are in jeopordy!

BrianD

I'm beginning to think that these are possibly the actions of vested interests who are keen on having their movements captured by ANPR.

Speed cameras annoy us all but it takes some mind set to embark on the course of action to destroy one. Man passes van, man goes home gets petrol and returns to scene to torch van. Is this the work of ordinary Joe Soaps? "Where are you going with the can of petrol, honey? Tea is ready" - "Just going out to fill up the lawnmower".

I'm not sure if we are seeing random acts of badness here. Could it be more organised?

Cookie_Monster

-Chris- wrote: »

These posts = not ok (or very, very borderline).

More posts like these = infraction/ban.

Is that simple enough for everyone??

Why are you only picking part of that comment of mine, placing it well out of context? It's mis-representative of what I said in the earlier part of the post

To repeat for clarify:
(although) I'd never condone it as people could get hurt...

Rodin

They were a bad idea anyway

SPECS cameras are yer only man

L1011

Rodin wrote: »

They were a bad idea anyway

SPECS cameras are yer only man

SPECS cameras are immobile; that's the reason they used vans instead.

Rodin

MYOB wrote: »

SPECS cameras are immobile; that's the reason they used vans instead.

Thats the point. Just put them in a particular place. They're guaranteed to slow traffic down.

Mr. Presentable

Every time they burn one of these gets closer to the time they burn a person doing their job. Anyone, however circuituously, who supports these activities has no place in civilised society

-Chris-

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Why are you only picking part of that comment of mine, placing it well out of context? It's mis-representative of what I said in the earlier part of the post

To repeat for clarify:
(although) I'd never condone it as people could get hurt...

OK, when I read:

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

although I'd never condone it as people could get hurt I can't help smiling a little whenever I hear about one of them going up.

I understood it to mean "I'd never advise someone to set a van on fire that probably had someone inside, but I can't help smiling a little whenever I hear about a van with someone inside being set on fire".

To be honest, I don't see what other meaning it could possibly have, but maybe I took it up wrong, in which case I apologise.


Anyhoo...

It's a mod instruction, and you know well enough by now not to question a mod instruction on-thread because it takes the thread off topic (as it has now), and that if you have an issue with any moderation decision you should take it to PM.

Thanks.

Judgement Day

couldntthink wrote: »

I would shake the persons hand and give him a lend of a lighter if he needed it. However it is wrong to set them alight if there is someone in it, afterall he's just doing his job, but I do class the operators in the same league as traffic wardens.

I think it is wrong to privatise any form of law enforcement.

Also, there are just as many accidents caused by people who drive too slow, it's high time these incompetent "motorists" were targeted too.

With your attitude I shouldn't think that you approve of any form of law enforcement, so don't be shy in admitting it.

thebullkf

-Chris- wrote: »

These posts = not ok (or very, very borderline).

More posts like these = infraction/ban.

Is that simple enough for everyone??

so are we only allowed show disdain for the burning?

Or can one voice their agreement to it?

howiya

thebullkf wrote: »

so are we only allowed show disdain for the burning?

Or can one voice their agreement to it?

I don't see why you would want to agree with burning people's property

invinciblePRSTV

You have to love the great Irish public. Bankrupt the state and they'll lie down, accept it, and meekly vote in politicians who are more of the same, but introduce some new speed camera's and suddenly we get a campaign of civil disobedience/mindless violence expressing their dissatisfaction with them.

What a country.

thebullkf

howiya wrote: »

I don't see why you would want to agree with burning people's property

i don't.

I was looking forclarification, if we're only allowed voice one opinion though i have a problem with that- don't you?

thebullkf

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

You have to love the great Irish public. Bankrupt the state and they'll lie down, accept it, and meekly vote in politicians who are more of the same, but introduce some new speed camera's and suddenly we get a campaign of civil disobedience/mindless violence expressing their dissatisfaction with them.

What a country.

i agree, disgraceful really- i'd do something about it if i wasn't so apathetic:p

Seriously though, i'm actually amazed there hasn't been more outcry..
I don't agree with the van burning bit, but i don't agree with the vans either. usually placed in revenue raising areas,not the real accident blackspots.

Amtmann

I'm amazed at the ire some people feel for these vans. As an almost daily user of the N24 (one of the most statistically dangerous routes in the country) I like to see the vans parked up. They just might deter some reckless fool from smashing into me head-on.

Rodin

thebullkf wrote: »

i agree, disgraceful really- i'd do something about it if i wasn't so apathetic:p

Seriously though, i'm actually amazed there hasn't been more outcry..
I don't agree with the van burning bit, but i don't agree with the vans either. usually placed in revenue raising areas,not the real accident blackspots.

and the real reason why we had gardai in ditches and not specs cameras

howiya

thebullkf wrote: »

i don't.

I was looking forclarification, if we're only allowed voice one opinion though i have a problem with that- don't you?

The opinion we seem to be allowed voice is in agreement with my opinion so i'm ok with it

-Chris-

thebullkf wrote: »

so are we only allowed show disdain for the burning?

Or can one voice their agreement to it?

I would think the best place to draw the line is:

It's ok to like the vans and what they're achieving.
It's ok to hate the vans and what they represent.
It's not ok to condone criminal damage and possible manslaughter, whether we agree with what the person was doing at the time or not.


This next bit is not aimed at you thebullkf...

Seriously, that's someone's son or daughter operating that van.
You can rail all you like about the positioning of the vans, whether they're safety related or just revenue collectors, how much tolerance they should have before they issue a fine...
I don't see how anyone can justify the malicious burning of someone's vehicle/place of work and I worry about what would happen if next time it occurs there's a fatality and a grieving family member happens across some of the posts here where people gloat about these attacks.

You don't think I'd allow a thread/post that said it was ok to run over Gardai, beat up clampers or set fire to tax inspectors, do you? Why would this be any different?


Anyway, apologies for going off topic again, and I hope everyone realises these questions are rhetorical - this request stands (although I'm more than happy to explain my thinking on-thread) and arguing against it will just take the thread off topic.

Thanks

thebullkf

-Chris- wrote: »

I would think the best place to draw the line is:

It's ok to like the vans and what they're achieving.
It's ok to hate the vans and what they represent.
It's not ok to condone criminal damage and possible manslaughter, whether we agree with what the person was doing at the time or not.


This next bit is not aimed at you thebullkf...

Seriously, that's someone's son or daughter operating that van.
You can rail all you like about the positioning of the vans, whether they're safety related or just revenue collectors, how much tolerance they should have before they issue a fine...
I don't see how anyone can justify the malicious burning of someone's vehicle/place of work and I worry about what would happen if next time it occurs there's a fatality and a grieving family member happens across some of the posts here where people gloat about these attacks.

You don't think I'd allow a thread/post that said it was ok to run over Gardai, beat up clampers or set fire to tax inspectors, do you? Why would this be any different?


Anyway, apologies for going off topic again, and I hope everyone realises these questions are rhetorical - this request stands (although I'm more than happy to explain my thinking on-thread) and arguing against it will just take the thread off topic.

Thanks

cheers Chris, i don't agree with the burning,but can understand the frustration borne that would lead to said burning. Of course,as usual , the human element is forgotten- the poor sod in the van:(

I despise these vans,and what they represent- ie pure money making. not
road safety. I think most people would agree with this?

If we want to curb road deaths,and foster good etiquette ,we need to educate, and reward good behaviour as opposed to punishing bad behaviour.

Maybe:

Driving competency tests should be every five years,
Tax breaks for safer road users-ie reduced road tax....among others?

corktina

much simpler to fit speed limiters...cant be THAT hard tecnologically....Is the political will there though?

DWCommuter

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

You have to love the great Irish public. Bankrupt the state and they'll lie down, accept it, and meekly vote in politicians who are more of the same, but introduce some new speed camera's and suddenly we get a campaign of civil disobedience/mindless violence expressing their dissatisfaction with them.

What a country.

Now that is exactly what I was thinking when I read this thread earlier. Thank you for articulating it.

keithc83

Those people that are carrying out these attacks are simply thugs. They deserve to be locked up. And anyone who condones these attacks should be ashamed. Would you condone an arson attack on your own vehicle?! Just because these are vans owned by the State doesn't mean its ok to cause criminal damage. Common sense needs to prevail.

And invinciblePRSTV your post was spot on.

SeanW

corktina wrote: »

much simpler to fit speed limiters...cant be THAT hard tecnologically....Is the political will there though?

1. It would accomplish shag all - SPECS cameras at known black spots would be more sensible.
2. It would be a violation of civil liberties.
3. It would cost a fortune - either the State, or it would be more cost imposed on motorists who are already treated like milk cows and regulated very heavily.
4. It would remove a valuable revenue stream from the gov't - speeding fines. That's all these vans are there for anyway.
5. People may need to speed in emergencies - a person may need to rush themselves or someone else to the hospital, may have to flee a criminal pursuit or riot quickly or other emergencies may require prompt travel.

gurramok

I do often wonder why I never see a speed camera van in one of the marked routes in the North Inner city, Dublin. Is it because it's too dodgy for the operator to put a van there?

I mean, its one of those area's you hear and see(yes i've seen Gardai with guns down there) about the ERU on patrol regularly and people would not walk through there at night. In relation to the topic, do GoSafe have a list of areas they avoid in order to not attract violent attention?

Rodin

corktina wrote: »

much simpler to fit speed limiters...cant be THAT hard tecnologically....Is the political will there though?

Presumably garda cars/ambulances/fire brigades would be exempt from said limiters?
I'd certainly not want a speed limiter being the reason I can't get out of trouble quick enough
Would these limiters automatically kick in for example on entering a 60kph zone?
How would this technologically work?

DWCommuter

thebullkf wrote: »

cheers Chris, i don't agree with the burning,but can understand the frustration borne that would lead to said burning. Of course,as usual , the human element is forgotten- the poor sod in the van:(

I despise these vans,and what they represent- ie pure money making. not
road safety. I think most people would agree with this?

If we want to curb road deaths,and foster good etiquette ,we need to educate, and reward good behaviour as opposed to punishing bad behaviour.

Maybe:

Driving competency tests should be every five years,
Tax breaks for safer road users-ie reduced road tax....among others?

While some may think that an Irish dislike to a concept that prevents them from speeding is the reason for hating these vans, I feel it has more to do with more harmful crimes generating less of a crackdown, while petty crimes like out of date road tax are easy targets. Speeding and drink driving which are potentially murderous crimes are caught in this mix. People seem to feel aggrieved that they are caught quicker for road traffic offences than murderers, rapists, terrorists, muggers, bankers (new one on the list:D) or just the scumbag that punches the head of you on the street.

I believe there is a very unbalanced approach to the Law in Ireland and this causes a lot of public bad feeling. It doesn't justify setting fire to one of these vans, but it does possibly explain the mindset. Personally I am sick and tired of seeing the huge Garda presence on our roads while other more aggravating crimes go unpunished and receive less focus. Funnily enough I experienced an example today in my local shop. A fine sunny morning, so I played some ball in the park with my daughter and went home via the local shop. While in there 3 "kids" came in and blatantly stole 3 six packs of soft drinks. They were brazen and didn't even attempt to be sneaky about it. The girl behind the counter obviously got upset, called the Gardai and I waited to back her up. The Garda arrived, was told the story, knew who had done it, went off to enforce the law and then came back to explain that it will probably go nowhere useful as they are minors with previous form. The owner of the shop was advised that he can get an "injunction" to prevent them entering his shop. (big money)

So getting back to transport. One of my vehicles currently has out of date road tax while awaiting repairs for a DOE, but still on the road. I simply do not have the resources to get all repairs done in one go, so its a step by step approach. I drive it in fear of being caught, even though it will be back taxed at no loss to the state once it passes the DOE. It could be technically impounded under the RTA. The risk of being caught is high. So when this example is benchmarked against my little experience in the local shop this morning, its easy to see why a hatred of these mobile speed camera vans has developed.

Equality is a great word, but appears to be defined differently in Ireland.

Please Note: I did not set fire to these vans.:D

GerardKeating

thebullkf wrote: »

i agree, disgraceful really- i'd do something about it if i wasn't so apathetic:p

Seriously though, i'm actually amazed there hasn't been more outcry..
I don't agree with the van burning bit, but i don't agree with the vans either. usually placed in revenue raising areas,not the real accident blackspots.

I have only speak for my little part of west Galway, we had an infestation of them the past month, one actually parked opposite a memorial plaque for an accident a few years back, the other on a a share S bend of which I have no personal knowledge of an accident, but have seen a good few near misses.

And this one that was burnt out today is near the site of the worst car accident in the history of the state...

couldntthink

Judgement Day wrote: »

With your attitude I shouldn't think that you approve of any form of law enforcement, so don't be shy in admitting it.

Are you working for Gosafe by any chance?

As pointed out by someone else, it's the fact that the cops seem to be constantly harping on about this and that crack down on speeding. In my opinion they focus on this because it's easy to catch people speeding. Speeding will always be a problem unless they target the source of the problem instead of the result of the problem. The result is speeding while the source is attitude. There will never be enough cops or cameras to stamp out speeding but they can do something about driver education. Our legislation is pathetic, and our testing system is irrelevant in the real world.

Mr. Judgement you must forgive my seemingly negative attitude towards law enforcement. My car was stolen, cops told me to look for it myself, my dad's trailer was stolen while parked outside a garda station with the typical "theres very little we can do", I could go on and on with more examples of this type. I also think you must be a very good judge of character to be able to decide I have no respect for the law. Never even had my name taken, no traffic offences, I pretty much never break the speed limit unless by about 5 or 6 km/h. Yet I have to suffer driving behind people doing 50 - 60 in a 100 zone with 2 or 3 knobheads behind who won't overtake. You then end up with a line of frustrated motorists who then try and overtake several cars at once. When will these people be prosecuted for what I consider to be reckless driving. Bear in mind I do understand some people drive slow, but pull over every now and again because you are a menace.

Cookie_Monster

DWCommuter wrote: »

I believe there is a very unbalanced approach to the Law in Ireland and this causes a lot of public bad feeling. It doesn't justify setting fire to one of these vans, but it does possibly explain the mindset.

This is exactly it I think. People get pissed off that a few kph over the limit and you get fine and points but shoot someone of "lose" 1 bn quid and nothing generally happens.

Did they not catch a guy for doing one of the previous two vans at some point? I thought I saw that on the news, if so what did he get charged with, if anything?

thebullkf

GerardKeating wrote: »

I have only speak for my little part of west Galway, we had an infestation of them the past month, one actually parked opposite a memorial plaque for an accident a few years back, the other on a a share S bend of which I have no personal knowledge of an accident, but have seen a good few near misses.

And this one that was burnt out today is near the site of the worst car accident in the history of the state...

good points, what about the ones on the N4,N7,old airport road,under the [EMAIL="bridge@M1/M50"]bridge@M1/M50[/EMAIL] interchange...and my personal favourite, Whitehall Church, catching unsuspecting motorists,coming off a Motorway,drops to 60km/h...then 50km/h...within 100metres...?

its obvious,disgusting and frankly divides peoples attitudes to the guards. i've yet to see a Garda standing out in the Pi$$ing rain with a Gatso?

No doubt they were out today on the revenue routes.:rolleyes:, given the weather,and o/t.
we don't enforce our existing laws for a start.
I heard from an excellent source that 8% of motorists are driving uninsured approx.
That tells its own story tbh.
The answer is simple,education,and a reward system for safe driving and motivating yourself to be a safer,better,more courteous driver.
They won't do that cos its down to money.
same with prices of cigs-they make too much revenue selling them.
hence the gradual increases as opposed to slapping a fiver on a pack @ budget time.

The ironic thing is,we know all this.....

ardmacha

The answer is simple,education,

Education me eye. Pretty much everyone knows how to drive, they just choose not to.

You then end up with a line of frustrated motorists who then try and overtake several cars at once. When will these people be prosecuted for what I consider to be reckless driving.

I agree that this type of overtaking is reckless driving and should be prosecuted. But speeding should too.

couldntthink

ardmacha wrote: »

Education me eye. Pretty much everyone knows how to drive, they just choose not to.



I agree that this type of overtaking is reckless driving and should be prosecuted. But speeding should too.

I actually meant the people driving too slow and causing the tail back without pulling over should be prosecuted for obstructing traffic. Obviously the reckless overtakers should too, and I once drove to a copshop after witnessing a particularly bad incident to report but of course "not much we can do".

I regularly travel on the headford road out of galway (which is approx 7-8 miles of straight road) where some prick will be doing 60 k on a dry road with a line of rush hour traffic behind them. Assholes in my opinion. And the best of all are the people who drive at 60 in a 100k zone and don't slow down going through a 50 k zone. so are actually speeding. Could never understand the mentality of people like that. Do they not think I am clearly an inconsiderate asshole and should either proceed at a reasonable speed or pull over occasionally. I honk at these people when I overtake. It drives me absolutly nuts.

DWCommuter

ardmacha wrote: »

Education me eye. Pretty much everyone knows how to drive, they just choose not to.



I agree that this type of overtaking is reckless driving and should be prosecuted. But speeding should too.

I believe "couldntthink" meant the slower drivers that caused the overtaking were the reckless ones.

As for education, its too light although heading in the right direction. Get it right and you develop a culture. The current culture is steeped in old Ireland. A new culture is needed. Driving and road safety should be on the LC curriculum for a start.

And bring back Judge and the safe cross code.:D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEssgMQ1O_k

ardmacha

I believe "couldntthink" meant the slower drivers that caused the overtaking were the reckless ones.

Surely not. Lack of consideration is not recklessness, it is just bad manners. Discourteous driving and dangerous driving should not be confused. One annoys, the other kills.

A new culture is needed.

Enforcement is part of the that new cultural change. Now I fully agree that there should be enforcement of things like keep left rules on the M50 as well as speeding campaigns and such a broader enforcement approach would enhance support for the speeding enforcement.

monument

couldntthink wrote: »

...Speeding will always be a problem unless they target the source of the problem instead of the result of the problem. The result is speeding while the source is attitude. There will never be enough cops or cameras to stamp out speeding but they can do something about driver education.

Attitudes have to be tackled, but speeding can be reduced by increasing the changes of getting caught (that's been done with a mix of speed cameras in private and garda vans, built into police cars and the old hand held ones). Only real nuts commit crimes when they think there's a good chance of getting caught. While the speed cameras can't be everywhere you lower speeds generally when people get the message that there's a reasonably good chance of getting caught.

couldntthink wrote: »

Yet I have to suffer driving behind people doing 50 - 60 in a 100 zone with 2 or 3 knobheads behind who won't overtake. You then end up with a line of frustrated motorists who then try and overtake several cars at once. When will these people be prosecuted for what I consider to be reckless driving. Bear in mind I do understand some people drive slow, but pull over every now and again because you are a menace.

Have you ever reported these drivers for reckless driving? Traffic Watch is 1890 205 805 and you are allow to us a phone to ring the Gardai while driving.

You said something about attitudes needing adjusting? You may want to look closer to home. People driving slowly may be annoying but the menace only there are the reckless drivers.

DWCommuter

ardmacha wrote: »

and such a broader enforcement approach would enhance support for the speeding enforcement.

Its lacking and this causes unrest.

dynamick

DWCommuter wrote: »

People seem to feel aggrieved that they are caught quicker for road traffic offences than murderers, rapists, terrorists, muggers, bankers (new one on the list:D) or just the scumbag that punches the head of you on the street.

Killing someone in a speeding vehicle is a worse crime than rape, mugging & bank fraud. Road safety policy is saving 200 lives a year compared to 5 years ago and has clearly been one of the most effective allocations of state resources.

GoSafe cameras are not operated by the gardai so they don't divert garda attention from other offences.

3 "kids" came in and blatantly stole 3 six packs of soft drinks...One of my vehicles currently has out of date road tax while awaiting repairs for a DOE..I drive it in fear of being caught...The risk of being caught is high... So when this example is benchmarked against my little experience in the local shop this morning...

Whoa horsey! I had to read this a couple of times to take it in. You are admitting that you are allowing one of your commercial vehicles to be driven despite being unroadworthy and untaxed and your complaint is that you feel worried that you are likely to be caught because the gardai don't spend enough time chasing children who steal fizzy pop?

Tragedy

dynamick wrote: »

Killing someone in a speeding vehicle is a worse crime than rape, mugging & bank fraud.

Actually, legally it's not worse than rape & bank fraud to the best of my knowledge?

Road safety policy is saving 200 lives a year compared to 5 years ago and has clearly been one of the most effective allocations of state resources.

Absolute unmitigated lies.
There are 200 less road deaths a year compared to 5 years ago.
How many of them are down to

• Improved/Newer roads
• Safer cars
• Less people driving
• RSA Road Policy

is something no-one can answer.
But one thing is definite, you can't attribute all of them to the states road safety policy :rolleyes:

GoSafe cameras are not operated by the gardai so they don't divert garda attention from other offences.

True, but they're being paid €16million a year that could be spent elsewhere. Like on improving, enlarging and educating the Traffic Corps perhaps, where we would see rewards based on more than dropping peoples speed a few km/h?
Vans don't catch dangerous driving, they don't catch people going too fast for the conditions, they catch people going over an arbitrary limit that can be lower or higher than it should be.