Why is Tara Mines not Irish owned?

whiteonion

The Tara mine is owned by o foreign company called Boliden. The Tara mine is the biggest zinc mine in Europe. Why don't we in Ireland have a state owned mining operator that runs it? Then the profits would stay in the country and Ireland is in dire need of revenue?

There is another zinc mine in Killkenny and that is also owned by a foreign company called Lundin Mining.

Why can't Ireland have its own mining industry?

later12

whiteonion wrote: »

The Tara mine is the biggest zinc mine in Europe. Why don't we in Ireland have a state owned mining operator that runs it? Then the profits would stay in the country and Ireland is in dire need of revenue?

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2011/0108/1224287043309.html

Latest accounts for Tara Mines Holdings Ltd, show that the company made a pretax profit of €5.4 million in the year to the end of December 2009. This compared with a loss of €5.1 million in 2008. Tara paid €1.8 million in corporation tax to bring its total profit for the year to €3.6 million.

I don't think we need another state body, going through the losses that Tara Mines have gone through, to come out with that sort of profit.

Doubtless Tara Mines profits will again be up because of ongoing rise in commodities, but it is not something that I would think all that necessary for the state to get involved in. Ireland would be better off investing in zinc and lead equities than actually mining it.

We would need 12 963 Tara mines, for example, to pay for the bank bailout.

ronkmonster

If state assets are being sold in the next few years, should they only be sold to Irish companies?

whiteonion

ronkmonster wrote: »

If state assets are being sold in the next few years, should they only be sold to Irish companies?

If state assets are being sold, it doesn't matter if they are sold to foreign companies or Irish companies. The state will still lose the revenue they had before they sold the assets.

beeftotheheels

ronkmonster wrote: »

If state assets are being sold in the next few years, should they only be sold to Irish companies?

Can you think of any Irish companies that can afford to buy them or would be interested?

If they have to be sold, they should be auctioned and sold to the highest bidder. We lose the income they generate but also lose the associated payroll costs.

I don't know if they have to be sold, or what the cost benefit analysis is in the current market.

But if the EU/ IMF insist on us selling them we would be much better off selling e.g. ESB to an EU utilities company who can pay us cash, and in whom we could take a small equity kicker, than selling to some Irish eejit with no sector experience who is funded by bank debt and likely to end up in Nama if not already there.

I doubt management could afford the debt to effect a buy-out without a foreign backer, and as we can see from Eircom a one time Irish State Asset owned by the workers and a PE backer = so much debt that they cannot spend on capital improvements.

Seth Brundle

beeftotheheels wrote: »

Can you think of any Irish companies that can afford to buy them or would be interested?

There are a number of Irish multinationals still making a packet!

beeftotheheels

kbannon wrote: »

There are a number of Irish multinationals still making a packet!

So Ryanair are hoping to buy the ESB, CRH are lusting after Coilte, or perhaps Elan really want to own Bord Gáis?

WalterMitty

if the state owned mines, they wud be losing money hand over fist. Workers would use union power to extract above market rates of pay and capital would be used less efficiently making the whole project unviable.

baalthor

I remember during the 70s and 80s there was a lot of discussion about building a smelter for the lead/zinc mine at Tara instead of exporting the ore.

Building a smelter was on Sinn Fein's policy list up until the late 80s.
I don't think building a lead/zinc smelter in the middle of suburban-land would be very popular nowadays ...

It should also be noted that Tara was frequently in financial trouble during this period with many layoffs and I think it may have closed on a few occasions.

chrysagon

My cousin recently did an interview for a job, down the mine, but the money is no where near what miners were earning a few yrs back, so i suppose it aint recession proof

bbam

whiteonion wrote: »

The Tara mine is owned by o foreign company called Boliden. The Tara mine is the biggest zinc mine in Europe. Why don't we in Ireland have a state owned mining operator that runs it? Then the profits would stay in the country and Ireland is in dire need of revenue?

There is another zinc mine in Killkenny and that is also owned by a foreign company called Lundin Mining.

Why can't Ireland have its own mining industry?

In general semi-state companies don't work well.
If you took Tara and transferred all employees onto similar salary scales as existing semi state's like ESB, then it would be closed within 6 months.

The metals market is notoriously volatile, if world zink prices take a tumble then your semi-state company can't ammend staff or pay and becomes a huge burden on the state.

Semi-State companies should be reserved for provision of essentials like water and power, public transport, where no matter what the marklet is the public will be supplied..

Diarmuid

WalterMitty wrote: »

if the state owned mines, they wud be losing money hand over fist.

Our governing classes cannot even run the government without bankrupting themselves. Why would anyone want to give them ownership of other entities they know even less about!?

Phill Ewinn

later12 wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2011/0108/1224287043309.html
I don't think we need another state body, going through the losses that Tara Mines have gone through, to come out with that sort of profit.

Doubtless Tara Mines profits will again be up because of ongoing rise in commodities, but it is not something that I would think all that necessary for the state to get involved in. Ireland would be better off investing in zinc and lead equities than actually mining it.

We would need 12 963 Tara mines, for example, to pay for the bank bailout.

Because declaring a loss is exactly the same as not making money.

MAYBE, just maybe Tara/Boliden have good accountants like every other multinational in Ireland.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/ryan-thomas-bankruptcy-latest-example-2422892