MBA Smurfit School?

El Diablo 101

Hi guys,

I am entering into my last year of college studying Marketing, and I would love to do an MBA in the Smurfit school next year. I have a few question if you wouldn't mind answering them.

Thanks,

1) On the fees page, it says that for the year, it is €29,500. Is there any particular reason beyond it being triple accredited that it is so expensive?

2) If there are scholarships available, what is the best way of going about getting one?

3) I'd imagine competition is rife for the places, is it?

Thanks again

PeakOutput

if you are seriously set on an mba you would be better off travelling to england and doing a quality one there I have heard many many bad things about the ucd mba including from ex lecturers who have moved onto bigger and better things

RandomName2

El Diablo 101 wrote: »

Hi guys,

I am entering into my last year of college studying Marketing, and I would love to do an MBA in the Smurfit school next year. I have a few question if you wouldn't mind answering them.

Thanks,

1) On the fees page, it says that for the year, it is €29,500. Is there any particular reason beyond it being triple accredited that it is so expensive?

2) If there are scholarships available, what is the best way of going about getting one?

3) I'd imagine competition is rife for the places, is it?

Thanks again

Forget scholarships (they might in theory exist but in practice attempting to get one will cost you a deposit!)

The price of the MBA is pretty similar to that offered by Trinity! Yeah - E30,000, I was surprised too :eek:

They really want Masters students or people with a lot of business experience to apply; but if you have a decent business degree and E30,000 I'm sure they won't complain.

The info above probably isn't of much use to you though! The Smurf MBA is about the most highly accredited course of its kind in Ireland; but there are *some* niggles about how much weight it carries abroad.

From what I've seen it is more useful for those already in a business (low management level) who want to move up the ladder, than those attempting to enter the market.

bnt

If you ask me, the "reputation" of a MBA is a self-fulfilling prophecy: it's perceived to be a ticket in to big business and high compensation, so in the absence of regulation, schools are going to charge what the market will bear. What school would want to be "the cheap option"? But if you charge too much, you won't get the students: in other words, the school's reputation depends on there being money to pay the fees they charge.

(Look at the UK: they put a £9,000 cap on undergrad. fees, and now over 1/2 of the universities are charging £9,000. What Master of Business Administration thought up that one, and which school did he go to? I'm considering a MBA too, possibly in the UK. and need to know which schools to avoid ... )

PS: you don't need to have a business degree to go in to a MBA. I have a friend who got one, and he's an electrical engineer. I took the GMAT about 5 years ago, did OK, and had schools (including Smurfit) contacting me with offers - and I didn't have any degree at the time, just a lot of experience.

parker kent

PeakOutput wrote: »

if you are seriously set on an mba you would be better off travelling to england and doing a quality one there I have heard many many bad things about the ucd mba including from ex lecturers who have moved onto bigger and better things

You may have heard one thing, but I'd take the opinions of the Financial Times and The Economist as being more important.

Our full-time MBA programme is ranked 31st in the world's top 100 according to the Economist Intelligence Unit. We are the only Irish business school to gain a place in the rankings.
The Economist also ranked us highly for opening up new career opportunities and increasing salaries for our MBA graduates.

We maintained our presence in the top 100 in the Financial Times’ highly competitive global full-time MBA rankings and are currently ranked as 78th in the world and 22nd in Europe.
Our Executive MBA programme is ranked 54th in the world and 30th in Europe by the Financial Times.

http://www.smurfitschool.ie/aboutsmurfit/rankingsandaccreditation/

PeakOutput

parker kent wrote: »

You may have heard one thing, but I'd take the opinions of the Financial Times and The Economist as being more important.


http://www.smurfitschool.ie/aboutsmurfit/rankingsandaccreditation/

i aware of that thanks i stand by what i said you can get far far better value for money abroad

parker kent

PeakOutput wrote: »

i aware of that thanks i stand by what i said you can get far far better value for money abroad

OK so a quick straw poll:

London Business School: MBA costs £53,900
University of Cambridge Judge: MBA costs £36,000
University of Oxford: Saïd: MBA Costs £36,300
Manchester Business School: MBA costs £35,600
Cranfield School of Management: MBA costs £33,000
Imperial College Business School: MBA costs £35, 850

Remembering that £35,600 is around €43,000. I could go on, but suffice to say that Smurfit is ranked in the same lists as those MBAs. And it is cheaper than all of the above.

graduate

I am entering into my last year of college studying Marketing, and I would love to do an MBA in the Smurfit school next year

If you are a 21 year old final year student then you will not be admitted. The MBA is a post-experience degree, and if you don't know that then you haven't thought much about it. Not much point in spending 30 grand without a clear idea of what it is going to do for you.

You might wish to aim for one of the regular Marketing masters in Smurfit
http://www.smurfitschool.ie/mastersprogrammes/marketing/

Penisland

El Diablo 101 wrote: »

Hi guys,

I am entering into my last year of college studying Marketing, and I would love to do an MBA in the Smurfit school next year. I have a few question if you wouldn't mind answering them.

Thanks,

1) On the fees page, it says that for the year, it is €29,500. Is there any particular reason beyond it being triple accredited that it is so expensive?

2) If there are scholarships available, what is the best way of going about getting one?

3) I'd imagine competition is rife for the places, is it?

Thanks again

You really should not be considering an MBA if you are just coming out of an undergrad. Although there is a chance you will be accepted if you have the cash!

However people doing MBAs often comment that the best thing they get from the courses is contacts. The course content is very general, and as noted by other posters, you dont need a business background. You have to ask yourself what will you gain from doing another general business course? What sort of contact can you be to others in the course when you have just graduated?

If you are set on doing further study I would recommend doing a specialist masters. Try and think of what sort of job you would like to get into and try to pick a masters that would get you into that area. Try having a look at people on linked-in who have jobs that you may be interested in and have a look at the courses they have done. Might help you identify the route you want to take! And of course specialist masters are a lot cheaper :P

Best of luck anyway!

parker kent

Yeah I should have said as the posters above have said (got sidetracked in the UK is better value argument!). The average MBA student is between 30 and 35. And as it says on the Smurfit website:

Our MBA programmes are designed for professionals with at least 3 years experience. Programmes can be taken full-time (12 months) or part-time (24 months).

http://www.smurfitschool.ie/mbaprogrammes/

PeakOutput

parker kent wrote: »

OK so a quick straw poll:

London Business School: MBA costs £53,900
University of Cambridge Judge: MBA costs £36,000
University of Oxford: Saïd: MBA Costs £36,300
Manchester Business School: MBA costs £35,600
Cranfield School of Management: MBA costs £33,000
Imperial College Business School: MBA costs £35, 850

Remembering that £35,600 is around €43,000. I could go on, but suffice to say that Smurfit is ranked in the same lists as those MBAs. And it is cheaper than all of the above.

so we know its cheap (relatively), we knew that already. so what stats are you going to show me that shows its better value?

its been two years since i was doing most of my research so maybe things have changed a lot but i doubt it. the salary of graduates straight out of smurfit compared to graduates from lbs, oxbridge and imperial was noticeably lower and very significantly lower then the top schools in the states which is why I say you get better value abroad.

If you are a 21 year old final year student then you will not be admitted.

also thats not true, it makes it harder but not impossible

Pandoras Twist

Surely you should be looking into Masters programmes, not MBA's?

Masters in Marketing is 6,500

http://www.smurfitschool.ie/mastersprogrammes/marketing/mscinmarketing/

Penisland

PeakOutput wrote: »

so we know its cheap (relatively), we knew that already. so what stats are you going to show me that shows its better value?

its been two years since i was doing most of my research so maybe things have changed a lot but i doubt it. the salary of graduates straight out of smurfit compared to graduates from lbs, oxbridge and imperial was noticeably lower and very significantly lower then the top schools in the states which is why I say you get better value abroad.



also thats not true, it makes it harder but not impossible

That would be wrong. There are plenty of stats that measure value.The smurfit MBA is ranked 5 in the world in terms of value by the FT which is a function of salary earned before the MBA, salary after, course length, fees and other other cost including opportunity cost of not working.

So ye I would say that the smurfit MBA is definitly good value comparatively!

edit: It has actually dropped to 10 in terms of value in the 2011 rankings However I think this still delivers good value!

PeakOutput

Penisland wrote: »

That would be wrong. There are plenty of stats that measure value.The smurfit MBA is ranked 5 in the world in terms of value by the FT which is a function of salary earned before the MBA, salary after, course length, fees and other other cost including opportunity cost of not working.

So ye I would say that the smurfit MBA is definitly good value comparatively!

edit: It has actually dropped to 10 in terms of value in the 2011 rankings However I think this still delivers good value!

hmmm fair play to them being 15oddk cheaper to most others seems to pay off big time in the rankings.

if you click on ucd smurfit in the ft rankings you can see what i was talking about though, the (weighted)average salary of graduates from smurfit is 40K less a year then graduates from lbs. ucd is also 72nd as far as percentage salary increase and 72nd as far as career progress goes.

come to think of it however these stats mean very little to the op as he is apparently 21 and has had no career to date so maybe smurfit is fine for him and he should go for it, personally if i decide to go for an mba it will probably be stateside as they turned out to be the best options for me after i did all the research

parker kent

PeakOutput wrote: »

hmmm fair play to them being 15oddk cheaper to most others seems to pay off big time in the rankings.

if you click on ucd smurfit in the ft rankings you can see what i was talking about though, the (weighted)average salary of graduates from smurfit is 40K less a year then graduates from lbs. ucd is also 72nd as far as percentage salary increase and 72nd as far as career progress goes.

come to think of it however these stats mean very little to the op as he is apparently 21 and has had no career to date so maybe smurfit is fine for him and he should go for it, personally if i decide to go for an mba it will probably be stateside as they turned out to be the best options for me after i did all the research

You have to take into account the countries that MBA students work in afterwards. Ireland does not have as thriving a private sector as the UK or USA. Typically, people would work in the country they studied in once it is their home country. You'll find MBA grads tend to work in the UK once they are from there. Ditto the USA. Hence it is normal that on average they may earn less in a head to head comparison. FT, The Economist do take this into account. Unbiased outsiders see it as good value. You also have to take into account that not everybody can afford to move to the USA or wants to move to the USA. Smurfit is not anywhere near as bad as you portrayed it in your first post.

As for the OP, an MBA is definitely not the best option available to him. A masters in some area of business would be far better and then in future an MBA could be considered.

DáireM

PeakOutput wrote: »

hmmm fair play to them being 15oddk cheaper to most others seems to pay off big time in the rankings.

if you click on ucd smurfit in the ft rankings you can see what i was talking about though, the (weighted)average salary of graduates from smurfit is 40K less a year then graduates from lbs. ucd is also 72nd as far as percentage salary increase and 72nd as far as career progress goes.

come to think of it however these stats mean very little to the op as he is apparently 21 and has had no career to date so maybe smurfit is fine for him and he should go for it, personally if i decide to go for an mba it will probably be stateside as they turned out to be the best options for me after i did all the research

Lol, nice goalpost shift. I thought value was what mattered?

WRT the second part: due respect but the research you did in your spare time is gonna be way inferior to that of the Economist and FT. A stateside MBA may be the best choice for you personally but on average these rankings are going to be about right for someone looking at an MBA.

I think it's pretty impressive that Smurfit has managed to get right up there in the rankings especially with the geographic handicap parker kent mentioned. For an Irish university to be top 50 in anything in the world is fantastic and should be acknowledged as such.

Your condescending attitude really grated on me, best of luck moving onto bigger and better things though. Don't forget us plebs when you're at the top.

PeakOutput

DáireM wrote: »

Lol, nice goalpost shift. I thought value was what mattered?

I didn't shift anything i clearly said that, besides the advice from ex smurfit lecturers, my research was two years old.

edit; and value, along with relevance to career goals, is what matters to me i congratulate them on now being ranked highly for value for money

WRT the second part: due respect but the research you did in your spare time is gonna be way inferior to that of the Economist and FT.

with due respect to the rankings, which i do have high regard for, a very small increase in score in one area (say value for example) can jump you up a huge amount of places in the rankings. they also take into account a limited (not small but limited) number of variables. you need to do your own research to find out which mba suits you personally as they vary in content hugely and any independent adviser will tell you that.

MIT for example is probably top of the rankings if entrepreneurship is your goal. I cant remember the university name but I remember thinking how strange it was that the top school for logistics management was way down the general list and people might disregard it as a result even if that area was their end goal.

I think it's pretty impressive that Smurfit has managed to get right up there in the rankings especially with the geographic handicap parker kent mentioned. For an Irish university to be top 50 in anything in the world is fantastic and should be acknowledged as such.

it is indeed however, without draggin this off topic, it shouldnt be a rare occurence (trinity and ucd were ranked in the top 100 but dropped severely in the last decade) we have the potential to have 1 solidly in the top 50 and 2 solidly in the top 100 if we do things right IMO

Your condescending attitude really grated on me, best of luck moving onto bigger and better things though. Don't forget us plebs when you're at the top.

condescending to who exactly? if you are getting offended on behalf of a business department in ucd then you need to lighten up.

DáireM

The condescension wasn't confined to your criticism of UCD. I just got the impression that unless anything is in the absolute world elite you look down upon it. Apologies if I've taken you up wrong.

This could've been phrased a lot better for example:

PeakOutput wrote: »

come to think of it however these stats mean very little to the op as he is apparently 21 and has had no career to date so maybe smurfit is fine for him and he should go for it, personally if i decide to go for an mba it will probably be stateside as they turned out to be the best options for me after i did all the research

Which to me read as: "I mean, I wouldn't dream of it because it's ****e but you go right ahead OP, sounds right up your alley!".

You could've given much more constructive advise than this. If Smurfit really isn't worth much as you say you should've advised them to get some great work experience behind them and then apply for a world-class programme in 10 or 15 years, which presumably is what you've done.

PeakOutput

DáireM wrote: »

This could've been phrased a lot better for example:



Which to me read as: "I mean, I wouldn't dream of it because it's ****e but you go right ahead OP, sounds right up your alley!".

I can actually see how that would have come off like that now that you have pointed it out, i didnt mean it like that. I meant that the stats I was listing were all relative to people who had careers going in but because he dosn't have a career going in if he gets accepted and graduates he will obviously move up a few rungs of the career ladder and that would put him in a good position for being promoted younger then normal down the road.

You could've given much more constructive advise than this. If Smurfit really isn't worth much as you say you should've advised them to get some great work experience behind them and then apply for a world-class programme in 10 or 15 years, which presumably is what you've done.

nope definitely dont have 15 years of experience in anything I am in a similar position to the op in that I am about to get my degree but I am older and have 3-5 years of work experience and was very much set on doing an mba when I graduated last year but have cooled off on the idea somewhat mainly because the one I would really love to do is 3 years long but that might be a thread for later.

From my research you can get into a top 10 /20 / 30 mba straight out of your undergrad but you have to excel in other areas to make up for your lack of experience

DáireM

PeakOutput wrote: »

I can actually see how that would have come off like that now that you have pointed it out, i didnt mean it like that. I meant that the stats I was listing were all relative to people who had careers going in but because he dosn't have a career going in if he gets accepted and graduates he will obviously move up a few rungs of the career ladder and that would put him in a good position for being promoted younger then normal down the road.



nope definitely dont have 15 years of experience in anything I am in a similar position to the op in that I am about to get my degree but I am older and have 3-5 years of work experience and was very much set on doing an mba when I graduated last year but have cooled off on the idea somewhat mainly because the one I would really love to do is 3 years long but that might be a thread for later.

From my research you can get into a top 10 /20 / 30 mba straight out of your undergrad but you have to excel in other areas to make up for your lack of experience

Sorry about the condescension thing then, my bad reading it wrong.

parker kent

Peak Output you're wrong in your comments about UCD and Trinity slipping badly in the past 10 years. UCD have actually risen strongly in the past 10 years in University rankings. When Hugh Brady became president, elevating UCD in the rankings was a core aim. They were not in the top 100 at the time. They have since entered the top 100.

On a related note, there are now 2 main rankings systems. The Times Higher Education World University Rankings split from the QS World University Rankings. Previously they released a joint list, now there are 2 different lists. UCD is ranked 114th and 94th in the respective lists. Trinity have usually been in and around the top 50 throughout the last decade with occasional leaps and falls. They are 77th in the Times list and 52nd in the QS list.

PeakOutput

parker kent wrote: »

Peak Output you're wrong in your comments about UCD and Trinity slipping badly in the past 10 years. UCD have actually risen strongly in the past 10 years in University rankings. When Hugh Brady became president, elevating UCD in the rankings was a core aim. They were not in the top 100 at the time. They have since entered the top 100.

On a related note, there are now 2 main rankings systems. The Times Higher Education World University Rankings split from the QS World University Rankings. Previously they released a joint list, now there are 2 different lists. UCD is ranked 114th and 94th in the respective lists. Trinity have usually been in and around the top 50 throughout the last decade with occasional leaps and falls. They are 77th in the Times list and 52nd in the QS list.

weren't both in the top 100 in the late 90's early 2000's? then dropped down and ucd dropped a little further then trinity, possibly into the 200's or lower and then they started rising back up again?

there was a big deal made on these forums when they dropped out of the top 100, maybe it was more recent actually as I wasn't using boards in the early 2000's

edit; anyway its off topic, I started writing a paragraph here but it was too long so ill bullet point everything

1. op it is my opinion that if your dead set on an mba and you have the opportunity to do one abroad then you would be better off doing that especially if you did your undergrad in ucd.
   
2. either way you are going to want a first and very strong gmat scores to make up for not having any experience
   
3. if you can get a good job in the area you are interested in excelling in the job could be far better for your career then attending an mba right now.
   
4. getting a job might obviously be a problem in this climate so if you have tried and couldn't find anything then an mba might be a good way to bridge that gap while gaining a respected qualification
   
5. mba's overall are not as high in demand as they were pre recession, advisers are not sure if they will ever return to their pre recession position of being considered so valuable but nobody really knows
   
6. the cost of an mba is massive compared to other masters because of their perceived prestige, is the cost worth it to you when you could bridge the time gap i was talking about earlier with a cheaper but not necessarily lesser masters programme

this is all my opinion from my research and as people have pointed out some things have changed, this is not an attack on ucd or anyone who attends ucd

parker kent

No that didn't happen. The Times Higher Education-QS World University Rankings ran from 2004-2009. Obviously that has nothing to do with the 1990s. The trend for rankings mainly started in the 2000s

UCD made the top 100 in the THS list for the first time in 2009. Brady made a big deal of it at the time as it meant they reached their goal.

UCD in Top 100 in Times Higher Education QS World University Rankings

University College Dublin ranked 89 – up 19 places from 2008
UCD has entered the top 100 of the prestigious Times Higher Education QS World University Rankings, having risen to 89 in 2009. The top 100 is widely recognised as a benchmark of quality in the international higher education community and with over 2,000 universities surveyed, the ranking puts UCD in the top 5% of universities worldwide.

http://www.ucd.ie/news/2009/10OCT09/081009_the.html

But the Times-QS list is often criticised and that is why the Times launched their own list last year.

Edit: The drop you are talking about happened last year, not the 1990s.

steve9859

I did one of the 2 main Irish MBAs recently. I shant say which one (UCD or Trinity) as it is not really important to my point. My own post MBA experience has taught me that an Irish MBA is just not worth the money. I regret not having gone abroad to a recognised school - I personally think I made a bad mistake doing an MBA in Ireland.

Despite the spin and marketing from Smurfit and Trinity, they are not recognised as decent MBAs in the UK or USA - my experience has been that absolutely no value has been placed on the MBA at all. I have been incredibly disappointed by the response from employers to an Irish MBA.

They might be worth it if you are 100% staying in Ireland, but then networking is probably more important, along with an ACA (which is massively more valuable than an MBA, and cheaper!). I have no hesitation in recommending an MBA (after a few years work experience), but unless it is done at a recognised (maybe a top 50 school) I really think it is a waste of money

parker kent

On topic, the MBA is not designed for people straight out of an undergrad. It specifically says so in the guide to the MBA. The OP would be much, much better off to do further study in business such as a marketing, accounting etc masters. And then the most important thing is getting actual work experience.

parker kent

steve9859 wrote: »

Just one point of clarification before I start: Trinity was ranked in the mid 60s (for the MBA course, not the business school) back in 2005 or so. But then class sizes got too small and it became ineligible for a ranking, even though the tutors etc has stayed the same. There is a focus on getting the class size above 35 for 3 years running so that it can regain its ranking which I would have no doubt would be top 100.

To my main point:

I did one of the 2 main Irish MBAs recently. I shant say which one (UCD or Trinity) as it is not really important to my point. My own post MBA experience has taught me that an Irish MBA is just not worth the money. I regret not having gone abroad to a recognised school - I personally think I made a bad mistake doing an MBA in Ireland.

Despite the spin and marketing from Trinity and UCD, they are not recognised as decent MBAs in the UK or USA - my experience has been that absolutely no value has been placed on the MBA at all. I have been incredibly disappointed by the response from employers to an Irish MBA.

They might be worth it if you are 100% staying in Ireland, but then networking is probably more important, along with an ACA (which is massively more valuable than an MBA, and cheaper!). I have no hesitation in recommending an MBA (after a few years work experience), but unless it is done at a recognised (maybe a top 50 school) I really think it is a waste of money

Which brings it back to my point. Where you do your MBA changes your employment opportunities in THAT country. Most countries are focused on their own countries. The reason you got that response in the US is that most business men in the USA went to one of the top business schools in America. An MBA in the USA is important if you want to work in the USA. Ditto most other courses. They like to see CVs with universities they know about.

It is the the pull of the alma mater and the resulting networking. We don't really have that same draw to our Universities in Ireland as most go to the same few universities. An Irish MBA gets Irish contacts. A UK MBA gets UK contacts and so forth. It all depends what you want to do afterwards.

Also, Smurfit's MBA is in the top 50, so your last point slightly contradicts your earlier points.

PeakOutput

steve9859 wrote: »

Just one point of clarification before I start: Trinity was ranked in the mid 60s (for the MBA course, not the business school) back in 2005 or so. But then class sizes got too small and it became ineligible for a ranking, even though the tutors etc has stayed the same. There is a focus on getting the class size above 35 for 3 years running so that it can regain its ranking which I would have no doubt would be top 100.

To my main point:

I did one of the 2 main Irish MBAs recently. I shant say which one (UCD or Trinity) as it is not really important to my point. My own post MBA experience has taught me that an Irish MBA is just not worth the money. I regret not having gone abroad to a recognised school - I personally think I made a bad mistake doing an MBA in Ireland.

Despite the spin and marketing from Trinity and UCD, they are not recognised as decent MBAs in the UK or USA - my experience has been that absolutely no value has been placed on the MBA at all. I have been incredibly disappointed by the response from employers to an Irish MBA.

They might be worth it if you are 100% staying in Ireland, but then networking is probably more important, along with an ACA (which is massively more valuable than an MBA, and cheaper!). I have no hesitation in recommending an MBA (after a few years work experience), but unless it is done at a recognised (maybe a top 50 school) I really think it is a waste of money

This is the same feedback I have gotten from anyone I have spoken to about it. some were ucd students some were trinity students (no mba students but top business related undergrads in their class who were deciding were to do their postgrads)

each went on to be accepted into great programmes abroad and are very successful compared to their friends who got roughly the same undergrad degree but stayed in ireland for their postgrad.

that is not to say the people who stayed in ireland are unsuccessful, they did well in their postgrads and have decent jobs they just don't have as good jobs as the ones who went abroad and do not get the calls or emails from headhunters like they do.

A huge amount of the eventual success of mba students is down to them being able to make use of their universities alumni network and I don't think that the networks in ireland can compare

discount everything I say because I am still an undergrad myself if you like I don't care but these are first hand accounts to me from very successful people

Which brings it back to my point. Where you do your MBA changes your employment opportunities in THAT country. Most countries are focused on their own countries. The reason you got that response in the US is that most business men in the USA went to one of the top business schools in America. An MBA in the USA is important if you want to work in the USA. Ditto most other courses. They like to see CVs with universities they know about.

the difference, I believe, is that while the reputation of say an LSE, LBS Harvard or MIT is well recognised and respected here, the reputation / respect of ucd or tcd is not reflected in the uk or the states in the same way. I honestly believe that if there are two identical irish candidates applying for a job and they are the same in every way accept for one attended london business school for their postgrad and one attended ucd or trinity, and they both get the same score in their postgrads. Rightly or wrongly I think the LBS grad would be a shoe in for the job.

parker kent

PeakOutput wrote: »

the difference, I believe, is that while the reputation of say an LSE, LBS Harvard or MIT is well recognised and respected here, the reputation / respect of ucd or tcd is not reflected in the uk or the states in the same way. I honestly believe that if there are two identical irish candidates applying for a job and they are the same in every way accept for one attended london business school for their postgrad and one attended ucd or trinity, and they both get the same score in their postgrads. Rightly or wrongly I think the LBS grad would be a shoe in for the job.

All of my posts state that it depends what you want to do with your MBA. In Ireland, a UCD or Trinity MBA would not be easily overlooked. It depends where you want to go and what you define as success. I have already stated that working in the UK would be better served with a UK MBA. The same as working in the states would be easier with an MBA from on of their top business schools.

Also, I'll just repeat. Undergrads should not be applying for MBAs.

steve9859

parker kent wrote: »

All of my posts state that it depends what you want to do with your MBA. In Ireland, a UCD or Trinity MBA would not be easily overlooked. It depends where you want to go and what you define as success. I have already stated that working in the UK would be better served with a UK MBA. The same as working in the states would be easier with an MBA from on of their top business schools.

Also, I'll just repeat. Undergrads should not be applying for MBAs.

A Trinity or UCD MBA might be valued in Ireland, but if someone is going to spend €30k (+ salary foregone) doing an MBA, they should think long and hard about whether they want to risk being restricted to only looking in Ireland for a job (as has been agreed by most posters, an Irish MBA does not travel overseas). Do an MBA in the UK and you have the whole of UK, Ireland and the rest of Europe to look at - much better chance of getting a return on your investment.

If committed to staying in Ireland, I would recommend following a more focussed course of study - do a masters in whatever is relevant to the job to which you aspire

steve9859

parker kent wrote: »

Also, Smurfit's MBA is in the top 50, so your last point slightly contradicts your earlier points.

Smurfit's MBA is 98 in the FT MBA rankings (which is the main ranking and in many people's eyes, esp in UK and USA, the only one that really matters)

http://rankings.ft.com/businessschoolrankings/global-mba-rankings

parker kent

steve9859 wrote: »

Smurfit's MBA is 98 in the FT MBA rankings (which is the main ranking and in many people's eyes, esp in UK and USA, the only one that really matters)

http://rankings.ft.com/businessschoolrankings/global-mba-rankings

As I said above, the lists changed last year due to the FT-QS split. Neither have been solo for long enough for one to be considered the only one that matters. Prior to last year, the FT-QS list was the only one that matters. But that is in terms of overall University rankings, not MBAs.

MBA rankings are slightly different as they have 3 rankings that are considered pretty equal. The Economist Intelligence Unit is pretty well regarded in terms of MBAs, particularly in the USA. The Smurfit MBA in 31 on that list. CEMS is the other list that is considered important in Graduate Business Schools.

parker kent

steve9859 wrote: »

A Trinity or UCD MBA might be valued in Ireland, but if someone is going to spend €30k (+ salary foregone) doing an MBA, they should think long and hard about whether they want to risk being restricted to only looking in Ireland for a job (as has been agreed by most posters, an Irish MBA does not travel overseas). Do an MBA in the UK and you have the whole of UK, Ireland and the rest of Europe to look at - much better chance of getting a return on your investment.

If committed to staying in Ireland, I would recommend following a more focussed course of study - do a masters in whatever is relevant to the job to which you aspire

I have said throughout the thread that the choice of whether and where to do an MBA depends on the individual. It is up to the individual to weigh the pros and cons of each option.

All I have been arguing is that Smurfit is not as bad as was portrayed earlier in the thread. Also UCD and Trinity are not as poor as was later claimed in the thread.

Also, an MBA in Smurfit is not at all suitable for an undergrad given one of the entry requirements is 3 years experience.

PeakOutput

parker kent wrote: »

Also, an MBA in Smurfit is not at all suitable for an undergrad given one of the entry requirements is 3 years experience.

they do take people with no experience they specifically told me that if i meet the other requirements the experience would be something that could be gotten around. so if the op decides thats what he wants he has a chance so maybe explain why getting experience first would be a better option or going to a different masters?

ardmacha

they do take people with no experience

That would worry me in itself. One of the things about an MBA is not only the alumni but the interaction in class between people experienced in business. If that was promised to me and I forked out 30 grand, I wouldn't be impressed to have people in the class with no experience. I doubt if any respectable place abroad would admit someone without experience. To misquote Groucho Marx if I was an undergrad without experience I would refuse to pay €30,000 to any MBA that would have me. Go back when you have grown up.

parker kent

PeakOutput wrote: »

they do take people with no experience they specifically told me that if i meet the other requirements the experience would be something that could be gotten around. so if the op decides thats what he wants he has a chance so maybe explain why getting experience first would be a better option or going to a different masters?

I didn't actually say they don't take such people, I said it was not suitable for undergrads. Most masters have a 2.1 degree as an entry requirement, yet people with 2.2s are accepted into them.

An MBA is about two main things: people with experience interacting in class and learning about ways of running a business. Look at the line Smurfit use when describing who should apply for an MBA.

Those who want to take time out from their career to develop management skills and learn how to run a business more efficiently

http://www.smurfitschool.ie/mbaprogrammes/full-timemba/

How exactly do you see an undergrad with no experience or career suiting such a class? They will be wasting their own money, wasting an opportunity to get a more useful qualification and wasting the time/money of the people in the class who actually are meant to be there.

Also, most employers would see an undergrad doing an MBA straight after college as unusual. It is putting the cart before the horse. In interviews you will be on the backfoot as you'll be faced with questions as to why you made such a decision. There are lots of better options for an undergrad wishing to study Graduate Business courses.

PeakOutput

parker kent wrote: »

I didn't actually say they don't take such people, I said it was not suitable for undergrads. Most masters have a 2.1 degree as an entry requirement, yet people with 2.2s are accepted into them.

An MBA is about two main things: people with experience interacting in class and learning about ways of running a business. Look at the line Smurfit use when describing who should apply for an MBA.


http://www.smurfitschool.ie/mbaprogrammes/full-timemba/

How exactly do you see an undergrad with no experience or career suiting such a class? They will be wasting their own money, wasting an opportunity to get a more useful qualification and wasting the time/money of the people in the class who actually are meant to be there.

Also, most employers would see an undergrad doing an MBA straight after college as unusual. It is putting the cart before the horse. In interviews you will be on the backfoot as you'll be faced with questions as to why you made such a decision. There are lots of better options for an undergrad wishing to study Graduate Business courses.

I would argue that they fulfill a specific need in the mba. that of a new bright eyed enthusiastic intelligent person who hasnt learned the limitations of the real world yet and can offer a different prospective on the things being learned.

Now I am sure I only think this because while i do have work experience I consider myself as having zero experience when it comes to an mba because the area I want to go into is so different to the one I have experience in

also I dont see a problem with people with no experience wanting to learn about things like entrepreneurship which some mbas specialize in. trust me if I could find a course of the same quality as the entrepreneurship track in mits mba or the joined computer science and mba course in ucla I would take them in a second as they would be far cheaper and probably far easier to get into but I havn't been able to find them (no joke if you know of any courses that might suit I would love to be made aware of them)

parker kent

I think you are viewing this through your undergraduate eyes. An undergrad should not be doing an MBA. Your "bright eyed" line is just not true. They'll go in there with zero practical knowledge of how to run a business and will probably just píss off those who have worked in business.

PeakOutput

parker kent wrote: »

I think you are viewing this through your undergraduate eyes. An undergrad should not be doing an MBA. Your "bright eyed" line is just not true. They'll go in there with zero practical knowledge of how to run a business and will probably just píss off those who have worked in business.

man there was even too many typos in my last post even for my liking, some of them are corrected.

ye you might be right but if they served no purpose I dont think the top courses would consistently let them in when they have more then enough professionals applying for spots but you could be right

parker kent

PeakOutput wrote: »

man there was even too many typos in my last post even for my liking, some of them are corrected.

ye you might be right but if they served no purpose I dont think the top courses would consistently let them in when they have more then enough professionals applying for spots but you could be right

I think UCD in general are just taking as many applicants as possible. A bit sad really that the bar to entry is being lowered to make money.

PeakOutput

parker kent wrote: »

I think UCD in general are just taking as many applicants as possible. A bit sad really that the bar to entry is being lowered to make money.

I agree with that and that was one of the main criticisms that the ex lecturers I was talking about made basically if you can afford it you will get in

MBA

Interesting discussion...

Can I just clarify, that the Smurfit MBA does NOT consider applicants with no post-degree professional experience nor takes in anybody who wants to pay for it -I know this from a good source...

Toplink

Considering doing the Smurfit Exec MBA in September. I see they have an open day next week.

Have any of you had any experience of getting your employer to pay(fully or partially) for your fees? I am looking to go this route as I wouldn't be able to finance it otherwise.

I work/live in Galway so would have to make the trek up on Fridays and back Saturday which I don't mind. Is this a 6 week block per semester?

steve9859

I have done an MBA at one of the big two Irish schools quite recently, and I just have one contribution:

DO NOT DO AN MBA IN IRELAND!!!!!! IMO I made a really bad call.

They are of zero value outside of Ireland. In my experience they are unrecognized as decent MBAs (despite the top 100 ranking) and most people, even in London, haven't even heard of them.

Their alumni networks are simply crap in comparison to British schools. And for 30 grand you want post MBA support as well as just the education

They may be of some value if you definately want to stay in Ireland, in which case go to UCD ad they at least make sone effort at tying up with Irish industry. But to spend 30 grand on a course that is only recognized domestically when there might not be any domestic market to get a job in when you graduate seems like a poor investment. Go to the UK to get yourself more options. The costs of MBAs are generally the same everywhere - you will just have to factor in accommodation costs.

Toplink

Thanks for feedback Steve,

My situation would limit me to an Irish MBA unless I did it distance learn. Also I do intend staying in the current company that I am in (for now anyway). I would see the MBA as a vital tool for getting up the ladder within the company I am in or indeed if I ever decide to set my own company. I am in a technical role at present.

You'd rate UCD higher then Smurfit school so?

I would do it through NUI Galway except its closed till 2012.

Pandoras Twist

Toplink wrote: »

You'd rate UCD higher then Smurfit school so?

UCD MBA is Smurfit isn't it?

steve9859

Toplink wrote: »

Thanks for feedback Steve,

My situation would limit me to an Irish MBA unless I did it distance learn. Also I do intend staying in the current company that I am in (for now anyway). I would see the MBA as a vital tool for getting up the ladder within the company I am in or indeed if I ever decide to set my own company. I am in a technical role at present.

You'd rate UCD higher then Smurfit school so?

I would do it through NUI Galway except its closed till 2012.

Ah, OK. If it is for internal career progression it is a little different. It is the education that you want, and the piece of paper saying you have an MBA. The college therefore is of slightly less relevance. I would say though that 30k is a lot for just the education - far better value for money would probably be a professional qualification or masters in the appropriate field. The advantage of the MBA though, over for example an ACA, is that it is done and dusted in a year.

For the €30k you really expect access to properly functioning alumni networks, career support, industry links etc to help you make a career change or move up the ladder. It is this aspect where the Irish schools are really weak internationally and crap value for money.

If you just want top quality academics I would go Trinity - smaller class sizes, more access to professors, and much higher ranked in the Eduniversal rankings, a global peer ranking by business school deans that focusses purely on the academics and quality of research work rather than the other things that feed into the other rankings (such as infrastructure, post MBA support, % of people with jobs after graduation etc). it is 30th in the world in this ranking and top in Ireland. The new head of the business school is also an entrepreneur, and I believe there is a major focus in the MBA on entrepreneurial and business start up skills, with business plan projects and work with enterprise Ireland. That might fit in with maybe starting yoriu own business one day

UCD however has far better infrastructure, post MBA career support, access to Irish industry (including better opportunity for placement after the MBA), and is therefore probably better value for your €30k. if you are going back to you current company, then that is of less relevance though.

For anyone else looking to change career, I'd say again, my opinion is that you are far better off going outside of Ireland to study

(and yes, UCD is Smurfit, sorry)

SmurfitMBA

Hello all,

My name is Brian Marrinan and I am the MBA Careers Manager here at the UCD Michael Smurfit Graduate Business School.

I came across this thread and thought it might be useful for me to perhaps clarify officially some of the points made.

Firstly, the UCD Michael Smurfit Graduate Business School is exclusively a post-experience programme. You need an absolute minimum of three years experience to come on board the programme. Normally, that is post-graduation from a degree, however, we do accept people without a primary degree but they will need more experience to compensate.

Perhaps the confusion on this is because a number of American programmes don't have the same conditions and some people do go on to their MBA directly post graduation. However, that's much rarer in Europe and never with Smurfit.

Secondly, there has been quite a bit of discussion around the rankings, costs etc. Rankings certainly aren't the best way to pick a programme as it does very much come down to the individual and what suits them as an individual. However, what they do is show the quality is being adhered to and we're maintaining best practice standards. For that reason, Smurfit are very proud to be the only programme in Ireland which has been able to get, maintain and improve on these rankings over the past ten years.

What we are also incredibly proud of is that we have the three main international accreditations in Equis (the European standard), AACSB (the American standard) and AMBA (UK based MBA specific accreditation). To put it in perspective, out of more than 3900 registered business schools worldwide, we're one of less than 50 that has all three accreditations.

@Steve9859, I do think it's a little unfair to tarnish the Smurfit MBA simply because you had a bad experience with the Trinity MBA. We have a much larger alumni network and put more emphasis on the careers and personal and professional development side, shown by having a dedicated MBA careers office which no other Irish programme does. We're very proud of the reputation our brand has abroad, with individuals from last years class in places such as UK, Switzerland, Malaysia, Vietnam, South Africa, the USA, Canada, Aruba and Haiti.

Choosing an MBA is a big decision. Any investment of that much money needs consideration. The nature of the accreditations and rankings is that they are all based on student and alumni feedback. It does nothing to help us if we accept people who we know we will not be able to help, so it's a major factor for us. If we feel a different school is better suited to you, I will, and I have done this in the past a number of times, use my contacts to put you in touch with the most relevant schools internationally.

If you are exploring doing an MBA and would like to learn more, we perform "1-2-1" sessions on the Smurfit Campus in Blackrock as well as in the IFSC. At the 1-2-1 we will spend 30 minutes with you to see whether an MBA is the right choice for you right now and answer any questions you may have about it. These sessions can be booked on the Smurfit website, www.smurfitschool.com. We also have an open evening on Tuesday (14th June) in the Clarion Hotel in the IFSC from 6.30-8.30pm. Come along and I'd be happy to have a chat.

Regards,

Brian.