Towbar - good or bad thing ?

Delancey

I've heard that when selling an ordinary family car ( not a 4x4 ) that potential purchasers can be deterred by the presence of a tow bar , the perception being that the car is knackered from towing trailers.
If selling in these circumstances would you recommend removing the tow bar ?

Daegerty

Delancey wrote: »

I've heard that when selling an ordinary family car ( not a 4x4 ) that potential purchasers can be deterred by the presence of a tow bar , the perception being that the car is knackered from towing trailers.
If selling in these circumstances would you recommend removing the tow bar ?

Never heard of that before, i know a tow bar costs quite a bit. unless you can use it for something else I wouldn't bother removing.

If I see a car with a towbar i'd be more inclined to go for that because its a handy thing to have althoug I only used mine once with a trailer I borrowed.

I do wonder if it has much impact on the fuel economy though

mondeo

I would not buy a car with a towbar, seen plenty of dodgy gearboxs on cars with towbars. Removing it may help your sale but I still get under to see any evidence of a previous towbar. Some people see one as a positive so depends really.

johnayo

Daegerty wrote: »

Never heard of that before, i know a tow bar costs quite a bit. unless you can use it for something else I wouldn't bother removing.

If I see a car with a towbar i'd be more inclined to go for that because its a handy thing to have althoug I only used mine once with a trailer I borrowed.

I do wonder if it has much impact on the fuel economy though

Would you buy a Ferrari with a towbar?????????????????????????

Daegerty

johnayo wrote: »

Would you buy a Ferrari with a towbar?????????????????????????

If I could afford it, I'd buy it off the lad who was in the ad for the lotto on the telly quite a few years ago.

shame to have all those horses and can't even tow a trailer with it. if I was getting the ferrari new they'd be putting on a PTO shaft for me too

mondeo

I see plenty of newish E class Mercs with towbars on the back. Makes me sick:P. Hard breaking can make your trailer contents hit the back of your car. It can be painfully obvious when the back of the car is full of deep scratches and little dings.

Solnskaya

mondeo wrote: »

I see plenty of newish E class Mercs with towbars on the back. Makes me sick:P. Hard breaking can make your trailer contents hit the back of your car. It can be painfully obvious when the back of the car is full of deep scratches and little dings.

Just how hard are you brakeing???

Daegerty

if your car is scraping from that you should probably slow down and keep your distance more

mondeo

Solnskaya wrote: »

Just how hard are you brakeing???

I dont have a tow bar so I dont have damage from experience. But look at the back of some cars that have tow bars fitted and you can see their load at some point was not properly secured.

2 stroke

When I see a tow bar, I consider what may have been towed. Something like a dogbox or occasional light trailer would make little difference. A builders trailer/ large caravan would ring alarm bells. Waste of time taking it off, your car is what it is, removing a towbar won't reverse wear and tear.

aujopimur

That was Des Cullen motor dealer driving the Ferrari in the Lotto ad.,he's getting on a bit now but still a nice guy with a long history of motor trading & motor sport.

Daegerty

aujopimur wrote: »

That was Des Cullen motor dealer driving the Ferrari in the Lotto ad.,he's getting on a bit now but still a nice guy with a long history of motor trading & motor sport.

is there a clip of the ad somewhere? can't find it on the tub

MarcinG

Daegerty wrote: »

I do wonder if it has much impact on the fuel economy though

towing?

My almera 1.8 uses 5% more fuel when towing quite heavy 17" boat on motorway (10 and 9,5l/100km accordingly tested number of times)

Daegerty

MarcinG wrote: »

towing?

My almera 1.8 uses 5% more fuel when towing quite heavy 17" boat on motorway (10 and 9,5l/100km accordingly tested number of times)

thats not bad

I was more wondering about the long term fuel cost of just having the tow bar attached. I suppose it would depend on how heavy it is and how well it is tucked into the underside of the car

MarcinG

Daegerty wrote: »

thats not bad

I was more wondering about the long term fuel cost of just having the tow bar attached. I suppose it would depend on how heavy it is and how well it is tucked into the underside of the car

you mean just a presence of a tow bar?
well i would say this:
trailer +boat = few hundred kilos (add stuff on back seat, outboard +fuel tank in boot and all sorts of tackle i guess my almera has at least 500kg extra and it is 0,5l/100km more than myself +some daily stuff/passanger without trailer.
My guess is = unless you tow a big camper there is only minor difference.
(at least with well powered car - almera 1.5 could struggle as my wife has one and i found it difficoult to drive with 2 passangers up the steep hill)

ps first thing i do after i buy car is to fit tow bar - the average weight would be i guess 15-25kg?

kuro2k

Delancey wrote: »

I've heard that when selling an ordinary family car ( not a 4x4 ) that potential purchasers can be deterred by the presence of a tow bar , the perception being that the car is knackered from towing trailers.
If selling in these circumstances would you recommend removing the tow bar ?

sorry but i wouldn't touch a car with a tow bar!!

gyppo

2 stroke wrote: »

When I see a tow bar, I consider what may have been towed. Something like a dogbox or occasional light trailer would make little difference. A builders trailer/ large caravan would ring alarm bells. Waste of time taking it off, your car is what it is, removing a towbar won't reverse wear and tear.

This man has it spot on. Use your nut. If it's a private sale look around.
Is the seller a farmer, horse owner, builder, etc?
Is the seller a pensioner who uses a small trailer to bring grass clipping to the local tip?

paddydriver

mondeo wrote: »

I see plenty of newish E class Mercs with towbars on the back. Makes me sick:P. Hard breaking can make your trailer contents hit the back of your car. It can be painfully obvious when the back of the car is full of deep scratches and little dings.

Hard accelerating and your leaving some of the contents behind you to fcuk up someone else's car:rolleyes:

uberwolf

you could also look at the wear on the tow bar itself. I've had one on my car for the last 3 years (second hand buy) and I've never even taken the rubber hood off. Previous owner lived in an apartment complex.

pred racer

kuro2k wrote: »

sorry but i wouldn't touch a car with a tow bar!!

I wouldn't buy a car without one.

zilog_jones

I wouldn't buy a car with a towbar either - much higher chance of clutch and gearbox wear, though as others said it depends on what they were towing...

If a tow bar on a car is such a significant issue ye should really bring someone who knows what they are doing to view the car. It's a bit like folks who bring a car up a hill during the test drive to check she "pulls" well.

mondeo

paddydriver wrote: »

Hard accelerating and your leaving some of the contents behind you to fcuk up someone else's car:rolleyes:

I've seen that on the m50 some years back. Garden tools, hedge trimmers etc when they accelerated down the slip Rd. Volvo s80 with a Micky mouse flimsy looking trailer.

Mr.Boots

Its a real dumb Irish attitude...Use your cop on, just because a car has a towbar it dosnt mean it was used to tow a 3 ton trailer.
I have one on the car for my bicycle carrier......

amacachi

Judging from a crash I was about 5 yards away from a towbar is one of the first things I'd want to add to a car. A car was stopped in traffic, had a tow-bar on the back and was smashed into at at least 30mph. The towbar was damaged alright but the car that crashed into it was completely wrecked.

Vicxas

My dad always told me to avoid a car with a towbar as the engine is probably knackered.

Mr.Boots

Vicxas wrote: »

My dad always told me to avoid a car with a towbar as the engine is probably knackered.

On the continent you see alot more cars with tow bars than you do here....they are more into leisure activities than we are and need towbars for caravans,boats,jetskis,trailer tents,bicycle cariers, ect.
So do you think allllll these cars have knackered engines?
Of couse not.

Del2005

mondeo wrote: »

I would not buy a car with a towbar, seen plenty of dodgy gearboxs on cars with towbars. Removing it may help your sale but I still get under to see any evidence of a previous towbar. Some people see one as a positive so depends really.

New cars are designed for tow bars, they have pre drilled holes, so unless it's just been removed it's highly unlikely you'll know if one was fitted

mondeo wrote: »

I see plenty of newish E class Mercs with towbars on the back. Makes me sick:P. Hard breaking can make your trailer contents hit the back of your car. It can be painfully obvious when the back of the car is full of deep scratches and little dings.

If someone can't secure a load in a trailer I wouldn't buy their car anyway, what other things haven't they done properly?

Daegerty wrote: »

thats not bad

I was more wondering about the long term fuel cost of just having the tow bar attached. I suppose it would depend on how heavy it is and how well it is tucked into the underside of the car

A towbar only weights a few kilos. When not in use it won't affect a cars fuel economy, or if it does it'll be negligible, not checking your tyres will have a bigger effect.

zilog_jones

amacachi wrote: »

Judging from a crash I was about 5 yards away from a towbar is one of the first things I'd want to add to a car. A car was stopped in traffic, had a tow-bar on the back and was smashed into at at least 30mph. The towbar was damaged alright but the car that crashed into it was completely wrecked.

The front and rear of modern cars are designed to crumple on impact in order to absorb energy away from the passenger compartment. The same goes for bumpers. Tow bars are not, and hitting one is much more likely to do structural damage to the car with the tow bar as you are concentrating force on a small surface area which is directly mounted on the subframe.

astrofool

MarcinG wrote: »

towing?

My almera 1.8 uses 5% more fuel when towing quite heavy 17" boat on motorway (10 and 9,5l/100km accordingly tested number of times)

Might be a bit worse with a 17' boat.

MarcinG

astrofool wrote: »

Might be a bit worse with a 17' boat.

i always keep record of all fuel expenses/liters purchased and calculating consumption at every full tank. for this reason i fully filled up car before and after trip with boat (three times so far ant same result every time).

pajero12

mondeo wrote: »

I see plenty of newish E class Mercs with towbars on the back. Makes me sick:P. Hard breaking can make your trailer contents hit the back of your car. It can be painfully obvious when the back of the car is full of deep scratches and little dings.

It's Much more likely these "Little dings" are from carelessness reversing upto the trailer hitching up!

VolvoMan

zilog_jones wrote: »

The front and rear of modern cars are designed to crumple on impact in order to absorb energy away from the passenger compartment. The same goes for bumpers. Tow bars are not, and hitting one is much more likely to do structural damage to the car with the tow bar as you are concentrating force on a small surface area which is directly mounted on the subframe.

+1

I don't understand people who fit towbars to cars for these reasons. Even with the lightest of impacts you are risking causing damage to the chassis which will be irreparable.

Run_to_da_hills

Good:
Protects the arse of the car in a tip.
Protects the rear bumper for those idiots that drive by ear.
Useful for towing trailers etc.

Bad:
Puts people off buying and may devalue the car if sold with evidence that it had one.
Will make mince meat of anything that rear ends you.
Could possibly do serious damage to chassis (subframe) if the car gets a nasty thump from behind as tow bars are bolted to the underframe.
Will give you a nasty sore ankle if you walk into it at night.

Daegerty

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Will make mince meat of anything that rear ends you.

That'll learn em!

BostonB

We've had towbars on cars/van for years and never had any of the problems described here. I wonder how many have actually experience of these problems themselves.

Daegerty

BostonB wrote: »

We've had towbars on cars/van for years and never had any of the problems described here. I wonder how many have actually experience of these problems themselves.

Tis just folks who don't have towbars speculating about the potential downsides

Guy:Incognito

Mr.Boots wrote: »

Its a real dumb Irish attitude...Use your cop on, just because a car has a towbar it dosnt mean it was used to tow a 3 ton trailer.
I have one on the car for my bicycle carrier......

It's more liekly to have pulled a lot of weight than one without a tow bar..........

Mr.Boots wrote: »

On the continent you see alot more cars with tow bars than you do here....they are more into leisure activities than we are and need towbars for caravans,boats,jetskis,trailer tents,bicycle cariers, ect.
So do you think allllll these cars have knackered engines?
Of couse not.

A car thats been pulling a caravan up and down Germany will have had a harder life. The weight doesnt float along. Every time the car is put in 1st and takes off, theres all that extra load on the gearbox and engine is working harder than if the weight wasnt there.

Why bother when you could pick one up that hasnt pulled the weight?

amacachi

zilog_jones wrote: »

The front and rear of modern cars are designed to crumple on impact in order to absorb energy away from the passenger compartment. The same goes for bumpers. Tow bars are not, and hitting one is much more likely to do structural damage to the car with the tow bar as you are concentrating force on a small surface area which is directly mounted on the subframe.

Fair enough, but I'd guess it would cost more to replace the entire front end exterior of a car and the two things that were leaking that to replace a bumper and a bootlid.

GERMAN ROCKS

parents buy a new vectra, well insignia now every 3 years and in every car they have they get a towbar. the towbar never once gets used.the only reason they have it is for parking so they dont bang it into anything else. was in with the mother one day in a high rise car park and she reversed in and next thing bang and i sais was that. she said she hit the back of the wall and she said she always does it to know shes back enough and then drives about 3 inchs forward and shes parked

Mr.Boots

GERMAN ROCKS wrote: »

parents buy a new vectra, well insignia now every 3 years and in every car they have they get a towbar. the towbar never once gets used.the only reason they have it is for parking so they dont bang it into anything else. was in with the mother one day in a high rise car park and she reversed in and next thing bang and i sais was that. she said she hit the back of the wall and she said she always does it to know shes back enough and then drives about 3 inchs forward and shes parked

You should tell her about parking sensors:D

Del2005

Mr.Boots wrote: »

You should tell her about parking sensors:D

Or better yet, eyes;-)

David09

People had very strange "wisdoms" when buying cars... Personally I couldn't care less if a car I was buying had a towbar or not. If anything it would be a useful added advantage.
My friend bought a brand new 11 reg subaru impreza diesel and insisted on having a towbar fitted before he took delivery. His reasoning? Well it's better to put his rubbish for recycling into his small trailer rather than it making a stinking mess of the car boot. I agree with him, but sadly the person buying it secondhand in a couple of years time won't see it this way.

If I would ever be concerned about buying a vehicle with a towbar, it would be a van bought from a builder or tradesman. When was the last time you spotted a private car hauling a dangerously overloaded trailer???

David09

Mr.Boots wrote: »

You should tell her about parking sensors:D

Good god. :eek:
If I'm ever looking at buying a vectra with a towbar, I'll double-check to ensure the rear chassis ain't buckled..

Guy:Incognito

David09 wrote: »

If I would ever be concerned about buying a vehicle with a towbar, it would be a van bought from a builder or tradesman. When was the last time you spotted a private car hauling a dangerously overloaded trailer???

It doesnt have to be a dangerously overloaded trailer. What about caravans?

Mr.Boots

What about a medium sized car with a small engine used to ferry some lad and his four mates around rural country roads....flat out.
Thats a bigger strain on the components than a small trailer or average sized caravan.

Iompair

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

It doesnt have to be a dangerously overloaded trailer. What about caravans?

Slight difference between someone with a caravan and some idiot towing a couple of ton of sand behind him (with a few shovels stuck in for good measure).

Guy:Incognito

Mr.Boots wrote: »

What about a medium sized car with a small engine used to ferry some lad and his four mates around rural country roads....flat out.
Thats a bigger strain on the components than a small trailer or average sized caravan.

Seriously. These are ridiculous comparisons.

We buy cars based on what we can tell about them. For the most part we cant tell how many passengers people regularly crammed in to the car but any savvy buyer does check suspension compnents and look for other signs of abuse. A towbar is a very outward and obvious sign that the car MAY have been used to tow something heavy(or used as a parkign sensor :rolleyes: ).

Iompair wrote: »

Slight difference between someone with a caravan and some idiot towing a couple of ton of sand behind him (with a few shovels stuck in for good measure).

Both of which may have been pulled with a towbar, whats your point?

Again, do you know what definately didnt pull either of those things? A car with no towbar.

BostonB

You should be checking for chassis damage, gearbox problems on any car regardless if it has a gearbox or not. A car thats been abused will have a lot more other signs than simply it has a tow bar.

darragh o meara

aujopimur wrote: »

That was Des Cullen motor dealer driving the Ferrari in the Lotto ad.,he's getting on a bit now but still a nice guy with a long history of motor trading & motor sport.

Was that not a Lamborghini owned by some farmer in Waterford? I remember seeing it at a car show years back and it was wrecked. Probably stuck in a shed somewhere left to RIP (rust in peace)

Eric Cartman

on a 4x4 id check for wear on the tow ball to give a rough indication of how much its been used , would be a little offputting but would only encourage me to haggle more, not walk away from the car

on a saloon car its a big no no for me, especially on luxury cars, I dont think id ever buy a lexus, merc , 5/7 series with a towbar.

a 4wd estate like a subaru or an audi allroad or something would bother me less but id still be a little put off by it