M50 Crashes, is it time for a 4 digit figure fine for this???

HellFireClub

Another highly disruptive crash on the M50, I can't work out how people can crash on this motorway, is it not well past time for a 2K fine if you cause an accident on the M50??? Might sharpen people's concentration...


http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/four-car-crash-reported-in-dublin-500258.html

Sacred_git

Don't be stupid,nobody means to crash!! We need better response teams on it
If anything! I am amazed there ain't more
Crashes on it the way some people drive
Don't have a clue!

flyingsnail

accidents do happen, but most of them seem to be caused by drivers not knowing or choosing to ignore the rules of the road. Honestly I don't think bigger fines would make much of a difference. Most people still wouldn't take notice until after the accident.

KamiKazi

you could punish people's mistakes or you could channel that effort into educating them on how to avoid such mistakes in the first place, let me think about which one is the better option :rolleyes:

langdang

Bring back the stocks for this and many other things!

CiniO

That's acutally good point.
I can't understand why there is no fine and penalty points for causing a crash.

Someone might be caught few times doing 105km/h on 100km/h which is not really any serious offence, but repeated 6 times will cause to collect 12 penalty points and driving ban.

While other person might cause an accident 6 times, and still have clean licence with 0 points.

Where's the logic?

sesna

HellFireClub wrote: »

Another highly disruptive crash on the M50, I can't work out how people can crash on this motorway, is it not well past time for a 2K fine if you cause an accident on the M50??? Might sharpen people's concentration...


http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/four-car-crash-reported-in-dublin-500258.html

Apart from the obvious tailgating which is rampant I have seen a few near-misses from people merging to lane 2 from both lane 1 and lane 3. Irish drivers are already pretty terrible and certainly dont have experience of 3-lane motorway driving.

Another dangerous situation I see huge discrepancies in the speed of traffic. Sometimes you can find people pulling out from traffic queues to avoid an exit into traffic that is travelling at minimum 100kmp/h.

Bad, ignorant Irish driving, frequent exits over a short stretch of motorway, lack of enforcement by the gardai and large volumes of traffic are a bad mix.

paddy145

There’s always going to be crashes on the M50, it is probably the busiest road in Ireland with multiple lanes and exits over a few short miles. 100000+ cars a day use it and regular collisions surprise you? Of all the roads in Ireland the M50 is the one road where I’m not surprised there’s been a crash.

AugustusMinimus

CiniO wrote: »

That's acutally good point.
I can't understand why there is no fine and penalty points for causing a crash.

Someone might be caught few times doing 105km/h on 100km/h which is not really any serious offence, but repeated 6 times will cause to collect 12 penalty points and driving ban.

While other person might cause an accident 6 times, and still have clean licence with 0 points.

Where's the logic?

If you go to court and are found to be the cause of an accident, then it's obvious you should get penalty points.

thom119

i'm still amazed at how you're essentially a competent motorway driver once you get your full license, yet you've (legally) never driven on one

put the money from fines back into educating poor drivers with penalty points, or that cause accidents...advanced driving courses etc.

sesna

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

If you go to court and are found to be the cause of an accident, then it's obvious you should get penalty points.

Strange that you can get penalty points for driving 10kmp/h over posted speed limit, yet get no points or penalty if you write off your car and cause a major accident or block up a major motorway during rush hour.

punto gt turbo3

you do get points if found guilty in court. Girlfriend crashed into a wall and got fined plus 4 points on her license.

Did not do damage to anything except her car.

CiniO

punto gt turbo3 wrote: »

you do get points if found guilty in court. Girlfriend crashed into a wall and got fined plus 4 points on her license.

Did not do damage to anything except her car.

I find it reasonable.
How did it happened, that case went to court at all?

Eoin

HellFireClub wrote: »

Another highly disruptive crash on the M50, I can't work out how people can crash on this motorway, is it not well past time for a 2K fine if you cause an accident on the M50??? Might sharpen people's concentration...

A fine is the last reason I'd try not to cause a motorway crash.

Top Dog

KamiKazi wrote: »

you could punish people's mistakes or you could channel that effort into educating them on how to avoid such mistakes in the first place, let me think about which one is the better option :rolleyes:

Considering this is Ireland - I'm afraid the first option would be the more likely to be implemented

Yakult

Just another number on the massive list as to why the driving test is such a failure here. If you can even call it a driving test tbh.
It never fails to amaze me how STUPID people can be on what is really such a simple system of road, yet they arent fully to blame.. Because they have passed this test that the RSA/Govt put in place to make sure we have educated and competent drivers on the road... Ehh right...

They have taking the right step with improved roads and by making it more challenging to even get driving (which is actually pointless if they are leaving the final test the same as it is now) but you have alot more eejits out there who are clearly not upto date with their driving and really need to sit down and learn the correct way to control their vehicle.

HellFireClub

Whatever the solution may be, I don't think it's one bit fair on other M50 users who can get caught up in 1-2 hour complete stoppages on the M50 immediately after an accident, because someone can't drive on a motorway without crashing into something or someone.

I think if you can't drive on the M50 without causing an incident, then you are not fit to hold a license. It's a well illuminated and modern piece of infrastructure that has been built to the highest safety standards possible, yet every single day, there are numerous crashes on the M50 that cause huge disruption to every other road user. There is no excuse for causing an accident on the M50 I think, maybe what's needed is a campaign involving CCTV along the whole length of the M50 and penalty points and substantial fines to be issued for basic safety violations such as changing lanes without indicating, tailgating, dangerous driving, etc...

I still think if you cause an accident on the M50 you should be hit with a 2K fine, the only way some people will learn is if you hit them where it hurts...

NinjaTruncs

There are a lot of Irish drivers who can't use motorways, it's time that part of your test involves using a motorway and since a learner needs to do a set amount of lessons some of these should be for motorway driving.

HellFireClub

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

There are a lot of Irish drivers who can't use motorways, it's time that part of your test involves using a motorway and since a learner needs to do a set amount of lessons some of these should be for motorway driving.

I think a lot of it is down to pure old Irish ignorance... You can see the attitude problem that a lot of drivers bring onto the M50 every day you are driving down it, impatience, lack of road manners, agressive behaviour, etc...

davef1000

Not to mention sitting in the middle lane at 90km/h. I hate that SO MUCH.

Quick question: If I'm in the left lane doing 100 and up ahead is someone in the middle lane going slower than that, am I supposed to cross two lanes to overtake? Or is it acceptable in this case to 'undertake'? (Sorry for thread derail...)

(Edit: is the timestamp off by an hour for everyone or just me?)

Del2005

HellFireClub wrote: »

Whatever the solution may be, I don't think it's one bit fair on other M50 users who can get caught up in 1-2 hour complete stoppages on the M50 immediately after an accident, because someone can't drive on a motorway without crashing into something or someone.

I think if you can't drive on the M50 without causing an incident, then you are not fit to hold a license. It's a well illuminated and modern piece of infrastructure that has been built to the highest safety standards possible, yet every single day, there are numerous crashes on the M50 that cause huge disruption to every other road user. There is no excuse for causing an accident on the M50 I think,

I still think if you cause an accident on the M50 you should be hit with a 2K fine, the only way some people will learn is if you hit them where it hurts...

The issue isn't the crashes it's the response to the crash.

All motorways all over the world experience huge tailbacks after crashes.

The fact that we don't have viable alternative routes to relieve traffic off the M50 and the response time of the emergency services to clear the scene/divert traffic

HellFireClub wrote: »

maybe what's needed is a campaign involving CCTV along the whole length of the M50 and penalty points and substantial fines to be issued for basic safety violations such as changing lanes without indicating, tailgating, dangerous driving, etc...

We don't a campaign on the M50, we need our law enforcers to do their job on all our roads all the time

The Bishop Basher

It's not just the accidents on the M50 but the rubbernecking would drive anyone insane. Something as simple as car with a flat on the hard sholder is enough to cause a 2 mile tailback as everyone stops for a gawk.

I agree that people who cause accidents should be fined heavily given the costs associated. Lost productivity, Garda time etc.

The majortiy of accidents i've witnessed on the M50 have been rear enders where people are driving too close to the car in front or are simpy not paying attention.

It won't stop bad driving habits in the main. That needs to be dealt with spearately and including motorway driving skills in the 12 lessons and subsequent test are a must but there's nothing like the threat of a €2000 fine to sharpen the minds of those who don't keep an eye on the road ahead.

ra0044

In reply to the question

"Quick question: If I'm in the left lane doing 100 and up ahead is someone in the middle lane going slower than that, am I supposed to cross two lanes to overtake? Or is it acceptable in this case to 'undertake'?"

Yes you should always overtake on the right of the slower moving even if it means moving over the 2 lanes. You should also indicate correctly and return to the left lane after you have overtaken it.

Getting back to the OP i think that implementing a proper motorway driving test aswell as rigorous enforcement of the rules of the road followed up with large fines are the only way to stop the appalling driving. As someone who loves driving and takes pride in driving correctly and even went to the UK to do the advanced driver training test ( and passed BTW ) it makes my blood boil to see the ignorance and blatant lack of understanding of the rules of the road.

sesna

Swanner wrote: »

It's not just the accidents on the M50 but the rubbernecking would drive anyone insane. Something as simple as car with a flat on the hard sholder is enough to cause a 2 mile tailback as everyone stops for a gawk.

Couldn't believe a few months back - 1 mile tailbacks on the northbound carriageway of the m50 past Tallaght after an accident, but the accident was on the otherside!

Gob$hites ahead of me were slowing down to 20km/p/h having a big gawk.

ArphaRima

I think people have enough disincentives to crashing the car they are travelling in.

HellFireClub

ra0044 wrote: »

In reply to the question

"Quick question: If I'm in the left lane doing 100 and up ahead is someone in the middle lane going slower than that, am I supposed to cross two lanes to overtake? Or is it acceptable in this case to 'undertake'?"

Yes you should always overtake on the right of the slower moving even if it means moving over the 2 lanes. You should also indicate correctly and return to the left lane after you have overtaken it.

Getting back to the OP i think that implementing a proper motorway driving test aswell as rigorous enforcement of the rules of the road followed up with large fines are the only way to stop the appalling driving. As someone who loves driving and takes pride in driving correctly and even went to the UK to do the advanced driver training test ( and passed BTW ) it makes my blood boil to see the ignorance and blatant lack of understanding of the rules of the road.

I think this whole "gently gently now, sure let's try some painless rehabilation", the whole, "politically correct" methodology of trying to change people's behaviour, I think it really belongs back in the Celtic Tiger era.

I think it's time for us to stop being half serious about these kind of things and try some sharp shock therapy. Next time someone causes massive delays on the M50, I'd like to see them handed the full bill for all the Emergency Service people who had to attend and a fixed fine on top of that of 2K, you'd soon see a change of behaviour then.

Rodin

Yakult wrote: »

Just another number on the massive list as to why the driving test is such a failure here. If you can even call it a driving test tbh.
It never fails to amaze me how STUPID people can be on what is really such a simple system of road, yet they arent fully to blame.. Because they have passed this test that the RSA/Govt put in place to make sure we have educated and competent drivers on the road... Ehh right...

They have taking the right step with improved roads and by making it more challenging to even get driving (which is actually pointless if they are leaving the final test the same as it is now) but you have alot more eejits out there who are clearly not upto date with their driving and really need to sit down and learn the correct way to control their vehicle.

The average IQ is 100. That explains it all

Rodin

The entire M 50 shoud be gatso'd

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

sesna wrote: »

Couldn't believe a few months back - 1 mile tailbacks on the northbound carriageway of the m50 past Tallaght after an accident, but the accident was on the otherside!

Gob$hites ahead of me were slowing down to 20km/p/h having a big gawk.

Happens all the time, but the vast majority don't give a damn. Do you think you are the only person who doesn't want to see the crash? The pileup is caused by a very very few people, it escalates...

projectgtr

Rodin wrote: »

The entire M 50 shoud be gatso'd

:rolleyes:

sesna

Was on the M50 half an hour ago. A girl was ahead of me driving a VW Polo in the overtaking lane at 80kmp/h. After flashing my lights and then indicating right, she finally moved over to the middle lane. I thought to myself that maybe there was some hope for Irish drivers.

My hopes were short lived as in my rear view mirror I saw her indicate and change back to the overtaking lane in spite of the fact that there were absolutely no cars anywhere around her, or ahead of her to overtake.

Del2005

HellFireClub wrote: »

I think this whole "gently gently now, sure let's try some painless rehabilation", the whole, "politically correct" methodology of trying to change people's behaviour, I think it really belongs back in the Celtic Tiger era.

I think it's time for us to stop being half serious about these kind of things and try some sharp shock therapy. Next time someone causes massive delays on the M50, I'd like to see them handed the full bill for all the Emergency Service people who had to attend and a fixed fine on top of that of 2K, you'd soon see a change of behaviour then.

No you wouldn't as insurance would generally cover it.

Some councils already charge for emergency services, people are still crashing and being killed on their roads.

Shield

Texting while driving - FFS people, don't do it. It's much more of a distraction than you allow yourself to believe.

helimachoptor

CiniO wrote: »

While other person might cause an accident 6 times, and still have clean licence with 0 points.

Where's the logic?

There's a flaw in your logic, an accident by nature is unpredictable. However speeding is not. The person knows if they are speeding. They will not know if they are going to have an accident.

Cookie_Monster

people generally don't have accidents on the M50, they cause collisions through bad driving or stupidity.

It's especially irritating that people sit in lane 2 or 3 for no reason other than they think they are going fast enough not to be in the "slow lane"


Some of the crashes I've seen or on the news are just ridiculous and clearly as a result of people being retards. Driving to the airport one morning I came across a skangered up 206 upside down in the V created by the barriers at an exit. Clearly acting the fool and trying to pull int/out of an exit far to late and losing control...

Mar4ix

It is stupid sometimes, when someone on m50 goes 70 -80 km/h, it cause drivers change line and overtake slow driver, which leads to accident. Also i noticed, that many drivers not using indicators , while change line., that's bad habit.

bazzachazza

Saw two recent reason why people shouldn't even touch their phones in the car whilst driving.

1) Man sitting less than a car length behind a 40ft on the motorway texting away whilst driving at 80+km/h. He had no reaction time as he was looking down less than five meters behind a truck. Madness.

2) Woman on mobile phone holding it to her ear, wildly weaving from left to right in the lane whilst tailgating me.

Sadly people think its okay to use phones whilst driving and it has become very common again to see people on phones. Why oh why don't the government just make it mandatory for car manufactures to install Bluetooth in new cars its not going to add much to the cars price.

Back on topic. Having recently had to endure my wife's obsession with watching New Zealand Traffic cops on some Sky channel. They fine you for everything over there and these shows were shot 10 years ago and the fines were big. They investigate all crashes and tips and if you were at fault not alone do you have to pay for the damage to the other car you get a fine and points.

Why is it that over here if you cause a crash like rear ending someone you don't get an automatic fine and points yet you get a fine and points for driving 10km/h over the speed limit and NOT causing a crash.:mad:.

Tropheus

I travel the M50 5 days a week between Donabate and Sandyford.

Speeding isn't the issue. During peak times, you don't really get an opportunity to break the speed limit on the M50.

As was said before, it's just bad driving. Tailgaiting is the biggest issue I see. People give themselves no reaction time whatsoever if something happens ahead of them. Why don't the Guards enforce penalty points for this. It's rampant.

People driving too slowly and necessitating traffic travelling at the speed limit to constantly move around them. It's not just in the "slow lane" either. It's all lanes.

Using phones when driving is another. 3 times in the last few months I came up behind people in the outside lane driving well below the speed limit. I flashed a few times. After a few minutes they moved over and had a phone stuck to their ear. The outside lane on the M50 is not a good place to take a phone call. Surely common sense would tell them that.

On my daily route, i'll see at least 5 people on the M50 with phones stuck to their ear. Madness.

Rodin

Rodin wrote: »

The entire M 50 shoud be gatso'd

I meant to say, Specs cameras. the whole length

Del2005

Rodin wrote: »

I meant to say, Specs cameras. the whole length

They only solve one very small part of the problem that is Irish motoring and if they are implemented then nothing will be done to sort out all the other dangerous driving that happens on our roads.

But I suppose when the RSA constantly harp on how "Speed Kills" then people forget that there's loads of other things on the road which can cause RTIs which are just/if not more dangerous then exceeding some speed limits.

Orando Broom

Minimum speed limit on Motorsways. There should be no more than a 10kmph varience between the upper and lower limit, i.e on the M50 the minimum should be 90kmph the upper 100. the inside left lane could be made slower if necessary but no more that 80kmph.

The obviously difficulty in that is traffic backing up but perhaps if people all kept relatively within the limit this would not occur. I really wouldn't be able to say with 100% certainty.

Orando Broom

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Thats nonsense, I drive at 100km/h on the motorways in the correct lane as its more fuel efficent and its alot quieter in the cabin. So I will be not allowed use them because of that?

You could stay on the national primary's, drive slower and save more fuel and have an even quieter cabin.

Mitch Connor

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Thats nonsense, I drive at 100km/h on the motorways in the correct lane as its more fuel efficent and its alot quieter in the cabin. So I will be not allowed use them because of that?

Thats not what is being said i think.

My understanding is that there should be a minimum speed restriction (as well as maximum) so 80 is the least you would be allowed to do on the motorway (in the inside lane) or you could be ticketed - to stop people from causing rolling road blocks at slow speeds.

You could still do 100kph in the correct lane, as that would be above the minimum speed restriction.

Beta Ray Bill

Read all of the above, some good posts in there.

The long and the short of it is that Irish Drivers are crap.
I am now on a Motorcycle after many years in a Car.
It's only now that I REALLY see how crap Irish drivers are, now that I'm so exposed on the road.

The things that need to be fixed (in relation to motorway driving) are as I see it:
1) Rubber necking
2) People on the Phone
3) People diving across lanes
4) Tail gating (Big Problem)
5) People weaving in and out of traffic because they are in a hurry
6) People driving in the Hard Shoulder when there is a tail back (WTF is that all about?)

If your caught doing the above you should be fined and possibly disqualified for a short period of time (3 months or something like that)

Forget this penalty point rubbish. They way I see it, your potentially giving someone "X" amount of chances to kill someone or cause a serious accident ya know?

A big fine and a short ban will make people cop on a bit quicker, than lots of small fines and a big ban over a maximum period of 3 years.
This would force people to change their driving.

Orando Broom

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Just so I dont get in your "way" on the very left most lane? Maybe the goverment could just give us all Ferrari`s so we can all do 250km/h so we dont get in each other way :pac:

I suppose they could, it would be highly costly. Perhaps they could enforce it using people's existing cars. Either way pottering along, 20kmph below the posted speed limit, on the outside lane of a motorway is a display of very poor judgement, that has great potential for an accident. If you think that is good driving, then I am really at a loss.

If people on the inside lanes maintained progress AT the posted speed limits then the need for over taking would be reduced by the majority of the sensible drivers. You could leave the outside lane to those who fuel economy and comfort is not a priority.

Orando Broom

LIGHTNING wrote: »

I think you should actually read my post.

I have. You believe that you drive in the correct lane at the correct speed. I believe you have no qualifications to make that assertion, considering you are driving so slowly, which in my unqualified opinion is far too slow. I also note that you have stated that comfort and financial issues trump safety which is a boggling stance to say the least. Your answer to the problem was for the government to issue Ferraris to Irish motorists.

Your mistaken belief that your driving is correct and proper and the hubris with which the notion is delivered is shocking to say the least, not withstanding that you are a moderator on a motoring forum.

Now you could correct me by stating the qualifications you possess and why they trump mine (full clean driving licence since 2001). I will happily withdraw my comments in the event that you are in possession of superior qualifications to mine ( a full clean drivers licence).

Dont be at yourself

I'd imagine the biggest cause of collisions is under-taking, and the biggest cause of under-taking is drivers not using the lanes properly. It's about education. Stick massive signs above the M50 explaining what each lane is for.

I read a stat a few years ago that if drivers used the lanes correctly, the extra capacity created on a motorway would be like adding a whole other lane.

Orando Broom

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

I'd imagine the biggest cause of collisions is under-taking, and the biggest cause of under-taking is drivers not using the lanes properly. It's about education. Stick massive signs above the M50 explaining what each lane is for.

I read a stat a few years ago that if drivers used the lanes correctly, the extra capacity created on a motorway would be like adding a whole other lane.

Stick massive signs above the M50 showing where each lane goes would be a help.

Castleknock exit par example

Cookie_Monster

Orando Broom wrote: »

Stick massive signs above the M50 showing where each lane goes would be a help.

they already have those. big blue ones, 15 ft high

Orando Broom

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

they already have those. big blue ones, 15 ft high

Are you sure? I think the sign reads castleknock and Navan N3 but it just indicates the exit not the actual slip road. I am open to correction but I've seen too many mad swerves for it to be all the drivers fault. Castleknock is to the extreme left and Navan is the inside lane. It used to be the other way.

Orando Broom

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Here are my original posts:



So lets break it down:

I drive in the correct lane (the left most one) at 100km/h. If you want to go faster then by all means use the over taking lane.

The rules of the road state you should be in the left most lane for normal driving/

Doing 100km/h in the driving line is not dangerous.

You incorrectly stated that I am doing 100 in the over taking lane which I never said.

I also have a full clean drivers license. I am a motorsport ireland qualified coach. I have been teaching people to drive for over 5 years. I have a clean racing license and I also teach off road driving and car control.

This is my final post on the matter. You stated the following

"Just so I dont get in your "way" on the very left most lane? Maybe the goverment could just give us all Ferrari`s so we can all do 250km/h so we dont get in each other way".

This is at odds with your above statement.

"I drive in the correct lane (the left most one) at 100km/h. If you want to go faster then by all means use the over taking lane."

You are just moving the goal posts to suit the argument. There remains a credibility gap.