Is it illegal for a HGV with trailer to use the OT lane on a 2 lane motorway

the culture of deference

I have to ask this, because as a regular user of the N4 M4, and N7 M7 I assume that it is not.

Twice yesterday a 40 foot pulled straight out in front of me, then spent the next 2 miles sat at 61mph while I waited for him to OT the other truck that was doing .5pmh less than he was.

Can anything be done about them?

Cookie_Monster

on motorways they are not allowed in the right most lane (be it L2 or L3), on N roads they are allowed in any/all lanes

MrDerp

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

on motorways they are not allowed in the right most lane (be it L2 or L3), on N roads they are allowed in any/all lanes

Unless that outermost lane has a speed limit of 80kph or less (which covers the Port tunnel)

Cookie_Monster

MrDerp wrote: »

Unless that outermost lane has a speed limit of 80kph or less (which covers the Port tunnel)

Are buses and HGV not specifically excluded from lane 2 in the tunnel anyway?

CiniO

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Are buses and HGV not specifically excluded from lane 2 in the tunnel anyway?

Yes, they are.

And buses are not forbidden to use most-right lane on motorway as well.
It's only trucks and vehicles towing trailers.

Cookie_Monster

CiniO wrote: »

No.

fair enough, I though there was signage to that effect in the tunnel itself...

And busses are not forbidden to use most-right lane on motorway as well.

never said they were

opinion guy

the culture of deference wrote: »

I have to ask this, because as a regular user of the N4 M4, and N7 M7 I assume that it is not.

Twice yesterday a 40 foot pulled straight out in front of me, then spent the next 2 miles sat at 61mph while I waited for him to OT the other truck that was doing .5pmh less than he was.

Can anything be done about them?

I f**kin hate this. I'd love to see HGV drivers stopped, fined and penatly pointed for this dangerous frustrating and pointless action.

Worse still thou - earlier this week I saw 3 HGV's in convoy that appeared to be streamlining each other. They had less about half a truck length between each of them. I'm hoping they got stopped

CiniO

the culture of deference wrote: »

Twice yesterday a 40 foot pulled straight out in front of me, then spent the next 2 miles sat at 61mph while I waited for him to OT the other truck that was doing .5pmh less than he was.

I think it was more likely 56MPH or 90km/h.

dcr22B

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Are buses and HGV not specifically excluded from lane 2 in the tunnel anyway?

Yes, they are excluded from overtaking in the tunnel.

-Corkie-

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

fair enough, I though there was signage to that effect in the tunnel itself...


never said they were

No you were right. Cars in the right lane(fast lane) only.

CiniO

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

fair enough, I though there was signage to that effect in the tunnel itself...

Sorry. My mistake. I corrected my post already.
They are forbidden as well from using most-right lane in tunel, and on dual carriageways as well.

Gregor Samsa

CiniO wrote: »

And busses are not forbidden to use most-right lane on motorway as well.
It's only trucks and vehicles towing trailers.

Nope, it's 1 Penalty point and an 80 euro fine for a HGV or bus using the outside lane of a motorway: source (links to PDF on the RSA site)

Funny, I just looked this up for another thread.

-Corkie-

phutyle wrote: »

Nope, it's 1 Penalty point and an 80 euro fine for a HGV or bus using the outside lane of a motorway: source (links to PDF on the RSA site)

Funny, I just looked this up for another thread.

Thats true. Imagine its the same penalty and fine for driving up the motorway the wrong way.....:rolleyes:

Gregor Samsa

-Corkie- wrote: »

Thats true. Imagine its the same penalty and fine for driving up the motorway the wrong way.....:rolleyes:

Yeah, that is a bit weird the way they have that. Although in practice, I'd assume that you'd be done for dangerous driving for going the wrong way on a mororway in most situations, which would carry a much more serious penalty. Maybe someone has come up with some bizzare situation where it's only a minor deal to do it - but I can't think of one.

CiniO

phutyle wrote: »

Nope, it's 1 Penalty point and an 80 euro fine for a HGV or bus using the outside lane of a motorway: source (links to PDF on the RSA site)

Funny, I just looked this up for another thread.

That's obviously a mistake.
There can't be a penalty and penalty points for doing something that is not forbidden.

Buses are not forbidden from driving in the most-right lane.

AugustusMinimus

In fairness though, do we expect all HGV drivers to sit in the driving lane when there is a vehicle in front of them doing 50kph ?

-Corkie-

CiniO wrote: »

That's obviously a mistake.
There can't be a penalty and penalty points for doing something that is not forbidden.

Buses are not forbidden from driving in the most-right lane.

No its true. I know a trucker that got stopped by robocop for using the overtaking lane while overtaking a JCB tractor on the M8. He didnt even go after the tractor...:rolleyes:

CiniO

-Corkie- wrote: »

No its true. I know a trucker that got stopped by robocop for using the overtaking lane while overtaking a JCB tractor on the M8. He didnt even go after the tractor...:rolleyes:

In the truck - allright.
In the bus - not.

Trucks and vehicles towing trailers are forbidden to use most-right lane on motorway and dual-carriageways.
It doesn't apply to buses.

opinion guy

CiniO wrote: »

I think it was more likely 56MPH or 90km/h.

I for one don't believe they obey this limit

alias no.9

the culture of deference wrote: »

I have to ask this, because as a regular user of the N4 M4, and N7 M7 I assume that it is not.

Twice yesterday a 40 foot pulled straight out in front of me, then spent the next 2 miles sat at 61mph while I waited for him to OT the other truck that was doing .5pmh less than he was.

Can anything be done about them?

The best metaphor I've heard for this carry on is Elephant Racing

Top Dog

CiniO wrote: »

Trucks and vehicles towing trailers are forbidden to use most-right lane on motorway and dual-carriageways.

:eek::eek:

Even where its only a glorified dual-carraigeway (only 2 lanes)?

Can you provide any link to this please? Bit shocked to be learning that if I'm towing something between Cork & Dublin, then I'm not allowed overtake regardless of whats obstructing me in the inside lane! :mad:

Fair enough not allowing it in a 3rd lane, at least I'd still have the option of using lane 2 for overtaking, but to not allow it on a 2-lane stretch of motorway is sheer madness!

-Corkie-

Top Dog wrote: »

:eek::eek:

Even where its only a glorified dual-carraigeway (only 2 lanes)?

Can you provide any link to this please? Bit shocked to be learning that if I'm towing something between Cork & Dublin, then I'm not allowed overtake regardless of whats obstructing me in the inside lane! :mad:

Fair enough not allowing it in a 3rd lane, at least I'd still have the option of using lane 2 for overtaking, but to not allow it on a 2-lane stretch of motorway is sheer madness!

Yep he is correct. And also you can only do 80KPH also..:)

corktina

opinion guy wrote: »

I for one don't believe they obey this limit

i for one believe they are by law fitted with speed limiters

corktina

Top Dog wrote: »

:eek::eek:


Fair enough not allowing it in a 3rd lane, at least I'd still have the option of using lane 2 for overtaking, but to not allow it on a 2-lane stretch of motorway is sheer madness!

can only agree with you...why should anyone be forced to follow a slower vehicle for miles on end when a road is perfectly capable of allowing you to overtake and go on your way....if it does hold someone up, its only for a minute or two at the most

Top Dog

corktina wrote: »

can only agree with you...why should anyone be forced to follow a slower vehicle for miles on end when a road is perfectly capable of allowing you to overtake and go on your way....

Guess I'll find out if I ever get caught/prosecuted for it

During the summer myself & my wife regularly take our caravan up to Dublin. Going across and joining the motorway by Mitchelstown means it's 178km(111miles) before I'm allowed to overtake again when I reach Naas. Not a hope in hell that I'm going to sit behind something travelling at 60/70km for that much of a journey! :eek: Its bad enough being stuck to 80km/h for that length - nevermind being forced to do it even slower.

Much and all as I value my licence, I think I might well take my day in court on this one. :mad:

opinion guy

corktina wrote: »

i for one believe they are by law fitted with speed limiters

These are infallible are they ? Like the pope ?

Gregor Samsa

CiniO wrote: »

That's obviously a mistake.
There can't be a penalty and penalty points for doing something that is not forbidden.

Buses are not forbidden from driving in the most-right lane.

What makes you say that? Can you provide or point to a source to show that it's wrong?

Gregor Samsa

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

In fairness though, do we expect all HGV drivers to sit in the driving lane when there is a vehicle in front of them doing 50kph ?

No, certainly not. I'd have no problem with a HGV overtaking a much slower vehicle, even if it took him a minute to do it.

It does become a problem when they can't complete the maneuver for 5, 10, 15 minutes. Which I have seen happen, on both the M7 and M18.

guil

corktina wrote: »

i for one believe they are by law fitted with speed limiters

a lot of them have been tinkered with or removed altogether i dunno how many times i was sitting at 90 and another truck passed me like i was stopped

CiniO

It looks like I was wrong again. It doesn't apply to dual-carriageways. Only motorways.
Regulations seems to be spreaded over pletny of different SI's and it's not easy to gather them all together.

What I found out since now.

1. Trucks, vans over 3.5 tonne GVW and any other vehicles towing trailer are forbidden to use the most-right lane on the motorways.
2. In tunnels there aren't any limits according to use of most right lane, except from situation when there is a road sign RUS047 which looks like this:

If this sign is present, vehicles with 3 axles or more, are forbiddent to use the right lane.
I assume that's the case in most tunnels, but I don't know as I didn't drive through any tunnel in Ireland yet.
3. On double-carriageway there seems to be no limits of using any lane by any vehicles.
4. Buses are not limited at all, from using any lane, except from double decker buses and city passenger bus which are designed to carry standing passengers. They are limited to 65km/h and by this, fall into the same limit as trucks.


Below few links...

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/si/0182.html#zzsi182y1997a33

Rules for Traffic on Motorways


33. (1) A driver on a motorway shall not—


( a ) drive a vehicle against the direction of traffic flow;


( b ) drive a vehicle on or across any part of the motorway which is not a carriageway;


( c ) stop or park a vehicle on any part of a motorway;


( d ) drive a vehicle of a class for which an ordinary speed limit of not more than 50 mph is prescribed by regulations under section 44 (1) of the Road Traffic Act, 1961 in the traffic lane nearest the right hand edge of a carriageway having more than one traffic lane except where it is necessary to proceed in that lane due to an obstruction or because another lane or lanes is or are for the time being closed to traffic.

That was updated by http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2005/en/si/0011.html but only in conection with changing 50mph to 80km/h.


This forbids any vehicles which have ordinary speed limit of 80km/h or less from using most right lane of motorway.


Above vehicles are described here: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2008/en/si/0546.html

4. The ordinary speed limit of 80 kilometres per hour is prescribed in respect of all public roads for—


(a) a mechanically propelled vehicle neither constructed nor adapted for use primarily for the carriage of passengers which has design gross vehicle weight in excess of 3,500 kilograms, and


(b) a combination of a mechanically propelled vehicle drawing another vehicle.

That's about trucks, vans and vehicles towing trailers.

3. (1) The ordinary speed limit prescribed for a single or double deck mechanically propelled vehicle constructed or adapted for use primarily for the carriage of passengers which has seating capacity for more than 8 persons and which is—


(a) neither designed nor adapted for the carriage of standing passengers, when driven on—


(i) a motorway or a dual carriageway, is 100 kilometres per hour, or


(ii) any other public road, is 80 kilometres per hour, or


(b) designed or adapted for the carriage of standing passengers when driven on any public road is 65 kilometres per hour.

And this is about buses.


Here few words about tunnels.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2006/en/si/0638.html

5. (1) Where sign RUS 047 is provided at the entrance to a road tunnel, the driver of a prohibited vehicle shall not drive such vehicle in the traffic lane on the right hand side of a carriageway in that road tunnel.

I already put picture of sign RUS 047, so I assume it forbids vehicles with 3 axles or more, but I never found any exact description, so I'm not sure if it applies to cars with trailers as well, or not.
Maybe someone can confirm that.

CiniO

phutyle wrote: »

What makes you say that? Can you provide or point to a source to show that it's wrong?

In the post above you have link to all relevant regulations.
In general, it used to be the case until somthing about April 2009, when ordinary speed limit for buses on motorways and dual carriageways was changed from 80km/h to 100km/h.
Since then prohibition of using the most right lane does not apply to buses anymore.

Gregor Samsa

CiniO wrote: »

Since then prohibition of using the most right lane does not apply to buses anymore.

Maybe the RSA will give you a reward if you let them know they've got in wrong in the Rules of the Road and their latest Penalty Points sheet.

corktina

Top Dog wrote: »

Guess I'll find out if I ever get caught/prosecuted for it

During the summer myself & my wife regularly take our caravan up to Dublin. Going across and joining the motorway by Mitchelstown means it's 178km(111miles) before I'm allowed to overtake again when I reach Naas. Not a hope in hell that I'm going to sit behind something travelling at 60/70km for that much of a journey! :eek: Its bad enough being stuck to 80km/h for that length - nevermind being forced to do it even slower.

Much and all as I value my licence, I think I might well take my day in court on this one. :mad:

it doesnt helpp but via limerick is 8km further and a much better road

corktina

opinion guy wrote: »

These are infallible are they ? Like the pope ?

no i dont much like him

CiniO

phutyle wrote: »

Maybe the RSA will give you a reward if you let them know they've got in wrong in the Rules of the Road and their latest Penalty Points sheet.

To be honest I don't really know if you are sarcastic now or not.

Yes. There is a mistake in Rules of the Road and it's obvious it's a mistake.

The law is very clear here.

Gregor Samsa

CiniO wrote: »

To be honest I don't really know if you are sarcastic now or not.

No, not being sarcastic (although I'm obviously joking about the reward). You did the leg work trawling through the SIs (I gave that post a thanks). Fair play to you.

Top Dog

corktina wrote: »

it doesnt helpp but via limerick is 8km further and a much better road

Haven't tried that route in a few months. Last time I did there were still roadworks between Limerick & Nenagh I think?

If we're travelling to Dublin as frequently this year then I may well give it another try, especially while the road between Mallow & Mitchelstown is closed. Bad and all as that is, I think the Mallow-Fermoy road would be even worse! :eek:

corktina

Mallow to Fermoy is indeed dire....the Mitchelstown road is little better. I did Belfast and back last week via M7 and it was a cinch...no roadworks on the M7 that I saw, (one VERY bumpy stretch though..)

Scottie99

This is a crazy rule. I can understand not being being allowed to use the 3rd lane, but not being able to use the overtaking lane on a two lane motorway!! Just imagine a trucker using an iffy N road all day and is overtaking vehicles on it. When it comes to a properly designed road (motorway) for overtaking, he not allowed? Is there any other country in Europe that doesn't allow this?

OP - I drive trucks, if a trucker overtakes me I usually ease off a few K's to allow him to pass - good general road manners which is somewhat lacking in Ireland today from ALL drivers.

-Corkie-

Scottie99 wrote: »

This is a crazy rule. I can understand not being being allowed to use the 3rd lane, but not being able to use the overtaking lane on a two lane motorway!! Just imagine a trucker using an iffy N road all day and is overtaking vehicles on it. When it comes to a properly designed road (motorway) for overtaking, he not allowed? Is there any other country in Europe that doesn't allow this?

OP - I drive trucks, if a trucker overtakes me I usually ease off a few K's to allow him to pass - good general road manners which is somewhat lacking in Ireland today from ALL drivers.

AFAIK it is a EU rule that a HGV is not allowed into the outer most lane but thats fine in the UK as most of the motorways are 3 lane but not here.

Scottie99

-Corkie- wrote: »

AFAIK it is a EU rule that a HGV is not allowed into the outer most lane but thats fine in the UK as most of the motorways are 3 lane but not here.

In Europe - Your saying that a HGV is not allowed allowed in the second lane on a two lane motorway?

-Corkie-

Scottie99 wrote: »

In Europe - Your saying that a HGV is not allowed allowed in the second lane on a two lane motorway?

Yes but they are mostly 3 lane carrigeways so it will not matter.

guil

Scottie99 wrote: »

This is a crazy rule. I can understand not being being allowed to use the 3rd lane, but not being able to use the overtaking lane on a two lane motorway!! Just imagine a trucker using an iffy N road all day and is overtaking vehicles on it. When it comes to a properly designed road (motorway) for overtaking, he not allowed? Is there any other country in Europe that doesn't allow this?

OP - I drive trucks, if a trucker overtakes me I usually ease off a few K's to allow him to pass - good general road manners which is somewhat lacking in Ireland today from ALL drivers.

theres many ignorant ***** that wont ease off, a lot of times i'd be overtaking one doin about 85, soon as i start to pass they give it the welly

Scottie99

-Corkie- wrote: »

Yes but they are mostly 3 lane carrigeways so it will not matter.

In fact your correct and wrong. I was speaking to some lads who have Continental experience with Hgv/Bus. They said that you can use the outside lane on a two lane motorway - only when allowed by sign i.e off peak etc

-Corkie-

Scottie99 wrote: »

In fact your correct and wrong. I was speaking to some lads who have Continental experience with Hgv/Bus. They said that you can use the outside lane on a two lane motorway - only when allowed by sign i.e off peak etc

Yep they were correct. I didnt want to be confusing things.

Scottie99

-Corkie- wrote: »

Yep they were correct. I didnt want to be confusing things.