New build advice please

Dcully

Hi guys,im planning on getting myself a new gaming rig.
My current spec isnt bad but the young lad much prefers gaming on pc than his 360 so ill pass it on to him.
Budget of about 1k - 1.5 k.

I have a 5 week old XFX 6950 2gig so that should do me for gfx card for a bit or would the top end nvidias be a better choice?
Im sorted for mouse/kb monitor etc, so i just need the case and components inside except the gfx card,ill also need W7.
The brother got a new system built by hardwaresand.de a few months ago and is very happy with it so i thought id save myself any stress and do similar.

Normally if i need new gear i just do some quick research if i need a new gfx card etc so being honest im seriously out of touch with whats what these days so advice greatly appreciated

Just to note i was looking at this thread and wondering if i should go with the exact same components as that chap has a similar budget?http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056231193

Serephucus

Yeah his rig's not a bad starting point. If you want to, since you'll have a good bit of money extra (€100, not including the cost saved by the GPU), maybe look into an i7 2600K, and maybe an SSD?

Fnz

Serephucus wrote: »

Yeah his rig's not a bad starting point. If you want to, since you'll have a good bit of money extra (€100, not including the cost saved by the GPU), maybe look into an i7 2600K, and maybe an SSD?

SSD would be nice. The new generation 'OCZ Vertex 3' SSD are being released around now but be sure to check out some reviews before committing to one.

I'd find it difficult to justify spending the extra cash on a 2600K over the 2500K processor, especially for a gaming rig. Your XFX 6950 may be unlockable to the performance of the 6970 - I haven't really looked into that though, so can't offer much advice there.

Dcully

Thanks guys, yeah i meant to say i definitely want to go with an SSD alongside maybe an F3.
Something like this maybe?
http://www4.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=31475&agid=1145&lb

Any other suggestions for a case or will the coolermaster 690 be sufficient?
http://www4.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?agid=631&adp=0&aid=38379&lid=2

Monotype

The C300 is great but C400s will be on the shelves shortly.

Serephucus

See, the trouble with me and SSDs, is that I either have one with just the OS - and maybe a couple of browsers or something - on it, in which case it's small (40GB or less), or I want a really big one (500GB+) to store all my games and applications.

As long as you don't mind picking and choosing which applications get installed where, then go for it. (This assumes of course that you have more than 100GB of applications, which you very well may not)

As for the case, that's a personal thing. As long as it's got at least semi-decent airflow, you're fine. After that, it's features and looks. Do you have any size restrictions? If not, I'd have a look at full tower cases. I usen't to like them myself, but after picking up an ATCS 840 last Summer, I won't be going back. The HAF 932 is a popular case. There's also the Antec 1200. Actually, there's a nice one caught my eye a couple of days back that's not a full tower. The Corsair 650.

jme2010

Save yourself the €100 and get an i5 2500K instead if the i7 if its for gaming. You could put that towards another 6950 and xfire it into a beast.

Is the 6950 CF beating the 580 atm? Maybe

Edit: Yup, it beats every single nVida card across the board at HD resoultions.
It also beats the 5970. 64+fps in Crysis. Nice

And imagine slapping a 6970 bios on top of them. (starting to drool here)

sink

jme2010 wrote: »

Save yourself the €100 and get an i5 2500K instead if the i7 if its for gaming. You could put that towards another 6950 and xfire it into a beast.

Is the 6950 CF beating the 580 atm? Maybe

Yeah it is by a decent margin, I just bought two, problem is you are relying on games to have good support for two gpus and there are a few that don't (e.g. Metro 2033) so the 580 would be better in those cases.

I'm planning on unlocking and overclocking my two cards close to 6970 speeds, so they will then tear one 580 apart but still cost the same.

Dcully

So far im looking at this build http://www4.hardwareversand.de/pcconfigurator.jsp?pcConfigurator.operatingsystem.operatingsystem.0=28239:7002

If that link doesnt work direct links below , also attached image if thats more useful.

http://www4.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?agid=1617&aid=41224&lid=2

http://www4.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=43134&agid=1601&lb

http://www4.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=30071&agid=1630&lb

http://www4.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?adp=0&aid=38536&agid=669&apop=0

http://www4.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=28152&agid=689&lb

http://www4.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=33027&agid=1145

http://www4.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=44312&agid=1192

http://www4.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=23012&agid=631

http://www4.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=28239&agid=185

Quick question - i dont bother with overclocking , is the heavy duty cooler really needed?
Ive never had issues with stock coolers @ stock speeds before.
Any thoughts on heat conductive paste for cpu?

Serephucus

If you don't bother with OCing, get the 2500. The K variant is designed for overclocking.

That said though, it's a bit of waste getting a Sandy Bridge processor and not overclocking it. It's been made so ridiculously easy this time around that there's really no reason at all not to.

And no, if you're not OCing, the only reason you'd get a different cooler is for noise reasons.

Dcully

Probably stick with the 2500K and cooler so.
Damn hardwaresand insist i pick a gfx card with the configurator tool on their site.
I had planned on them building but half tempted to give it a lash myself, never done so before,most ive done was gfx,card,ram,hd upgrades etc.
My biggest concern is applying the cpu paste,i reckon i can manage the rest fine until i run into problems that is :P

Fnz

How close would you like to get to a 'silent' build?

The 690 II is a very 'open' case by design - so little in the way of sound dampening.

Serephucus wrote: »

If you don't bother with OCing, get the 2500. The K variant is designed for overclocking.

They're pretty much the same price everywhere, it seems.

sink

They won't install a large aftermarket cooler for you anyway as it can damage the motherboard in transit. Either way you'll have to do it yourself.

Also that memory might not fit with that cooler as it overhangs the DIMM slots a bit. You'll need ones without the heat-spreader sticking out above the RAM. I have that cooler with this memory and it fits nicely.

8GB-Kit Corsair XMS3 DDR3-1333 CL9 - €68.26
http://www4.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=38052&agid=1192

Monotype

Hardwareversand seem to be broken so I can't give links but if you're spending that much money, perhaps bump up to a highly efficient PSU, e.g., 750W golden green or similar.

Dcully

Points taken Sink thanks.
Fnz yeah i like a silent pc, my current case is an Antec 900 and its whisper quiet but it only houses stock fans @ stock speeds with my Q6600.
Anything you can suggest for a pretty quiet case?
Monotype, when you can provide links do you mind suggesting something, as i say im totally out of the loop with pc hardware these days.

Thanks again guys.

Monotype

The Fractal R3 is well known as a quiet case.

Serephucus

Antec P183.

As for building it, you'll be fine. It's really not difficult. If you're really unsure though there's a thread around here of people willing to build/teach, and where they're located. Might want to give that a look.

Fnz

The Fractal Design Define R3 seems to be the new hotness in quiet cases. The (older) Antec 183 seems to come as a counter point during masturbatory R3 threads.

NZXT's H2 case is just out as well but generally reviews slightly worse than the R3. It does have some nice features but this review really put me off it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHcyWTorjdU

sink

I just got the R3, I stuck 4 extra fans in it and it can't really be called quiet any more, but it still is a nice case.

Dcully

Ok looks like a change of plan may be in order, the wife is not keen on the young lad getting my current pc at all.
As it is hes limited to gaming time on his 360 and is only 8 years old afterall so maybe she has a point.
Im wondering if i should just upgrade instead of a whole new build?

Current spec is :

Antec 900
Seasonic M12 700w PSU
Gigabyte GA-P35-DSP3 mobo
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.4
4 gig OCZ platinum DDR2 PC 6400
2 X 500 GB Samsung Spinsoft hard drives
LG DVD burner

Will the Antec 900 be ok to add a new mobo,ram,cpu,and a SSD?
Is the PSU alright?

Serephucus

That case and PSU will be fine.

You can throw everything on Adverts, and you can sub everything from your other build to the 900 with your existing PSU and you're good to go. The only trouble you might find yourself in is if you go to pick up a second 6950 down the line. 700W is probably a little low for CF.

Fnz

sink wrote: »

I just got the R3, I stuck 4 extra fans in it and it can't really be called quiet any more, but it still is a nice case.

OT but did you buy silent fans? Did you remove any of the sound-dampening material to fit those extra fans? Are your other components loud - it's probably difficult for any case to reduce the sound from things like the PSU.

I'm hoping to use this case to build a quiet PC myself.

sink

Fnz wrote: »

OT but did you buy silent fans? Did you remove any of the sound-dampening material to fit those extra fans? Are your other components loud - it's probably difficult for any case to reduce the sound from things like the PSU.

I'm hoping to use this case to build a quiet PC myself.

Yeah I bought 3 of these.

Noiseblocker BlackSilent Pro Fan PK2 - 140mm
http://www4.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=29623&agid=42

and 1 of these

Noiseblocker BlackSilent Pro Fan PL2 - 120mm
http://www4.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=29614&agid=42

I had to remove the sound dampening material that covered the vent's.

The fans themselves are pretty much silent, most of the noise seems to becoming from the CPU cooler fans (Corsair A70), and with the sound dampening material removed it's very audible.

Dcully

Hello again guys,ive been looking at the scan.co.uk and specifically their prebuilt systems 3XS or something they call them.
Just wondering if they have decent rep with regards their building quality?
Being honest i dont mind paying the extra if its built properly.

hardwaresand.de are pissing me about and havent answered my emails at all.
Their stupid configurator wont allow me select a no graphics card option and insist i buy a gfx card so screw em tbh.

I was gonna go down the self build route but not sure yet, i still might do or grab one of the builders on here any builders near Kildare incase i run into trouble?

Serephucus

I've heard both good and bad things about Scan's 3XS systems, though I've never used them myself. I'd just get someone to build it for you. I'm in Kildare myself if you're near Maynooth.

Dcully

Good stuff Serephucus, ill probably order the gear over next few days and see whats what.
I might have a go myself first,ive stripped down my rig before and put it back together so im hoping ill be okay with it if not i might ask for your assistance if thats ok.
Im sorted for transport so could come to maynooth no hassle if needed,thanks again.

Serephucus

No worries. If you've stripped and rebuilt your system before though you should be grand. It's not really any different than that.

Dcully

Yeah im hoping ill be fine once i dont run into trouble that is.



What you guys think of this build?
Ignore the first item on the list thats a mistake.

Serephucus

Looks like a nice one alright. What graphics card is going in there again?

Dcully

I got a new ati 6950 2gig about 6 weeks ago that i plan sticking in.

Any thoughts on a cooler for the cpu?
Something not too big and i suppose easy to install

Serephucus

I've heard good things about the A70 from Corsair. If you're into water, the H50 also does very well with Sandy Bridge processors.

deconduo

PSU is way way overkill, you won't use anywhere near 850W for a single 6950. Something like this would be all you need:

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/500w-silverstone-sst-st50f-es-strider-80-plus-80-eff-sli-crossfire-34db-eps-12v-120mm-fan

Also this is probably a better case:
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/coolermaster-haf-912-plus-black-mid-tower-case-w-o-psu

The Antec 600 is pretty dated, and wasn't the greatest choice even when it first came out.

Monotype

I would advise against the vertex 2 because 1) the vertex 3 will be out very soon (listed at £238.94, but it should push down other prices even if you don't want it) and 2) because it is only 115GB.

If you need an SSD now, the crucial 128GB is the same price, more than 10GB more and it has fantastic read speeds (write speeds are worse but it's the read that you will definitely notice/use the most).
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/128gb-crucial-realssd-c300-mlc-flash-25-ssd-sata-6gb-s-read-355mb-s-write-140mb-s

C400 AKA M4 will be out soon too.

+1 about the PSU - do you plan crossfire?

Dcully

Thanks guys.

Fnz

That Gigabyte motherboard is not suitable for dual GPU setups, should that matter to you. Also Gigabyte have held onto the old-school BIOS whereas most other manufacturers have gone with, arguably, the more user-friendly "UEFI".

The Asus P8P67 Pro Rev3 reviews well, features UEFI, and is suitable for dual GPU systems. It's slightly cheaper than usual (£138) on Scan's "Today Only" page. A £125 alternative would be the MSI P67A-GD55 B3.

You can compare features between the P67 boards here: [Link]

Dcully wrote: »

Any thoughts on a cooler for the cpu?
Something not too big and i suppose easy to install

One that will fit over that ridiculous RAM heatsink... not that I can talk.

The height of the ram may obstruct after-market coolers. Speaking of which, I've heard good things about this one: [Link]

Dcully

Just to update on this and thanks to all for advice.
Final spec below.
Im wondering what temps are deemed safe for my cpu under 100% load?
Currently OC`ed to 4.7 ghz
After about 5 mins running prime 95 im seeing temps reach max of 85c @ 100% load [only on 2 cores , about 75 on other 2], 25-30c @ idle.
I realize ill rarely hit max load while gaming anyways but id like to know whats a safe temp under 100% load.




Coolermaster HAF 912 Plus Case
600W Corsair CMPSU-600CX Builder Series 80% Eff'
Asus P8P67 Rev3 P67
Intel Core i5 2500K Unlocked 1155 Sdy Bridge QuadCore OCed to 4.7Ghz
Coolermaster Hyper 212 Plus 4 Heat Pipes with 120mm Quiet Fan
4GB (2x2GB) Corsair Vengeance DDR3 PC3-12800 (1600) Non-ECC Unbuffered CAS 9-9-9-24 XMP 1.50V
XFX ati radeaon 6950 2 gb
Pioneer DVR-S19LBK 24x DVD±R 12x DVD±DL DVD+RW x8/-RW x6 RAM x12
120GB OCZ Technology Vertex 2E 2.5" Sandforce SSD
1TB Samsung HD103SJ Spinpoint F3 SATA 3Gb/s 7200rpm 32MB Cache 8.9
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit

Some pics here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=71931743&postcount=738

Serephucus

Intel says 72.6°C, so I'd say 75 under Prime95 would be your target.

game4it70

After 5 mins only of prime there to high.What Vcore are you using?

Dcully

Serephucus wrote: »

Intel says 72.6°C, so I'd say 75 under Prime95 would be your target.

Cheers mate,seems i might try drop it to 4.5ghz to see how that goes.

Scan built it in the end and done the overclocking.
Long story but basically there was a delay with my order and no replies to my many query emails so i cancelled the order only for some system build manager to email me to ask if he could ring me to apologize and offer a reduction,i decided to hear him out.
The upshot of which was they offered to build,overclock, and deliver for
€910 inc VAT.
I had decided to get them to build it which came to a total of €1250, as an apology they knocked off €340 and shipped it on day of chat with the manager.
Fair play to them in fairness,im happy anyways

Dcully

game4it70 wrote: »

After 5 mins only of prime there to high.What Vcore are you using?

Im not sure , ill take a look i the morning and reply.
With that mobo it looks like OC`ing will be simply enough even for a noob like me :P

Serephucus

If you're not sure what vCore you're running, download HWMonitor, and it'll list VCORE under Voltages. If we know what that is we can help you. Odds are the Scan people were lazy and just maxed the vcore from the start.

game4it70

Dcully wrote: »

Im not sure , ill take a look i the morning and reply.
With that mobo it looks like OC`ing will be simply enough even for a noob like me :P

Yeah do that as tbh from what i have read the SB cpus seem to pretty cool even at high clocks so it looks like Vcore could be high or termal paste application isn't quite right.

Dcully

HWMonitor is showing CPU VCORE of 1.14V min 1.52V max and 1.14V current.

game4it70

Dcully wrote: »

HWMonitor is showing CPU VCORE of 1.14V min 1.52V max and 1.14V current.

Yikes!!!!!!!!!!!!! (if true) :eek:

Very bad for your cpu's health at that.

Try cpuz to see what that says.

Serephucus

And that's with vdroop... Jesus. You shouldn't need anything above 1.4 for 4.7.

Dcully

CPUZ is showing core voltage of 1.152v but changes to 1.160v at times.

Can you explain why the Vcore shown by HWMonitor is bad please, like i say i never really overclocked before.

game4it70

Dcully wrote: »

CPUZ is showing core voltage of 1.152v but changes to 1.160v at times.

Can you explain why the Vcore shown by HWMonitor is bad please, like i say i never really overclocked before.

have you run prime while watching cpuz?
Hwmonitor may still be right but sometimes software readings can vary between programs.

Dcully

Now HWMonitor is showing CPU VCORE of 1.15 currently beside it it says min 1.15v and ax 1.38v

Dcully

1.520V on CPU-Z while running prime 95

Serephucus

When you overclock, you push a chip past what its usual speed is. This speed increase gives you increased performance, but it also gives you increased heat, and increased instability. These two things need to be countered.

That's where a good cooler comes in. It can disappate the heat a lot better, resulting in cooler temperatures. To counter the instability, we have to increase the vcore (this is basically just the voltage supplied to the processor), doing this however increases the heat, and we're back to the good cooler again.

As you can imagine, OCing is all about finding a balance. You're either going to be limited by heat, voltage, or something external, like cheap memory or a bad motherboard. The latter two aren't too common, so they can be ignored.

For instance, the heat limit for your processor specified by Intel is 72.6°C. This means that if you see anything about 75° in Prime95, you should either invest in a better cooler, faster fans, or dial back your overclock (be that with speed, or voltage).

Now, one thing you have to keep in mind, is that there is a minimum voltage for every speed. Usually, Intel overestimates voltage - which is why some people can get to almost 4.0GHz on stock voltage. If you get an error when stress testing, you need to either increase your voltage, or lower your speed.

The two most important pieces of advice I can give you for OCing are:

1) Take your time. Don't rush it, and remember to test properly.
2) Only change one thing at a time. Believe me, you'll save yourself a lot of hasstle this way.

game4it70

Dcully wrote: »

1.520V on CPU-Z while running prime 95

Ok then you need to lower Vcore as that may well do alot of damage and worst case kill it.

Thats a good post by Serephucus and to add to it here is a good post/voltage guide.
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18227651&highlight=max+safe+temp