Upset about wedding

lazygal

We're having a humanist wedding service. Several relatives and friends have asked if they should "bother coming as its not in a church" or telling us they'll not come to the service because its not a church do. We've put a lot of time and thought into our service (readings, music, vows) and its really hurt my feelings that even younger people can't get their heads around a non-church marriage. I thought they would be more sensitive but how will the attitudes change if they don't even come to our service.

Just needed an atheist rant, thanks.

Beruthiel

That's pretty disgusting on their part. If anyone had said that to me last year, I'd have told them not to bother coming as I only want to be surrounded by people who care about me and wanting to make my day as special as they could.

I honestly don't understand why you haven't made them feel 2 inches tall, I know I wouldn't have been able to bite my tongue, the vein on the side of my forehead would have burst.

TwoShedsJackson

If they care so little about you and your partner's wedding because it's not in a church, then tell them to feck off. Obviously they won't need to come to the reception or whatever you're having either, so that's probably a couple of hundred saved on food or whatever.

It's your wedding, do what you both want to do on the day, and anyone who doesn't like it may go wherever else they choose. Good luck with it all

That's unbelievable - tell them immediately that if they care so little, they are not invited to ceremony OR dinner :mad::mad::mad:
I would have lost the plot with them by now
I'm serious - if they aren't bothered then do NOT fork out good money to have them at whatever reception you have planned

lazygal

Thanks. I should be able to laugh it off but I'm still upset. It's the manner in which they said it that upset me "Oh, what church is it, it didn't say on the invite" and when we told them it was all in the one venue it was like "Oh, no church. What time does the meal start, we won't bother with the service". From more than one person.

Ironically the most religious of our relatives are the ones who respect us for not having a sham church wedding and can't wait to see a different type of service. Especially my fiance's mother, who is very Catholic but has totally supported our decisions.

cavedave

That is awful. I would probably have ranted and raved in your position. Maybe send them a card saying

Thank you for not coming. You did not want to share our special day and had no interest in respecting our beliefs

*edit this is probably overly harsh. Other wiser heads have suggested more measured responses. I would not blame someone for flipping out though

Penn

That's ridiculous. Tell them that since a priest won't be saying the prayer before meals at the reception they can skip that part too.

Shenshen

I know what you're going through, love. I had the same thing two years ago... in my case made worse by the fact that the dinner was vegetarian.

At first I tried to argue with people, and explain to them why we wanted the celebrations the way we wanted them, but after a while I simply gave up.
I now believe that weddings are a good way of telling apart your friends from social leeches. Friends will be happy for you, and want to be there. The leeches are just after a good day out, you can do without them.
Just tell them that it's your wedding, and they're welcome to come, but YOUR wedding will be done YOUR way. They can do whatever they like for their own wedding.

Tin Foil Hat

lazygal wrote: »

We're having a humanist wedding service. Several relatives and friends have asked if they should "bother coming as its not in a church" or telling us they'll not come to the service because its not a church do. We've put a lot of time and thought into our service (readings, music, vows) and its really hurt my feelings that even younger people can't get their heads around a non-church marriage. I thought they would be more sensitive but how will the attitudes change if they don't even come to our service.

Just needed an atheist rant, thanks.

Stuff 'em. This is a perfect example of how religion poisons people. You're stuck with your relatives but tell those 'friends' to take a hike.

Beruthiel

lazygal wrote: »

Thanks. I should be able to laugh it off but I'm still upset. It's the manner in which they said it that upset me "Oh, what church is it, it didn't say on the invite" and when we told them it was all in the one venue it was like "Oh, no church. What time does the meal start, we won't bother with the service". From more than one person.

And what was your reply when they said that to you?
Honestly, if you couldn't tell them what you thought then, I'd be inclined to go cavedave's way and write telling them not to bother.

Galvasean

I'd also have told them where to go. A wedding isn't about where it's held. it's about whose getting married.

lazygal

Beruthiel wrote: »

And what was your reply when they said that to you?
Honestly, if you couldn't tell them what you thought then, I'd be inclined to go cavedave's way and write telling them not to bother.

One of them was my fiance's mate who is very religious and my fiance in typical joke fashion said "we'll see you at the meal so!". I was too embarassed to know what to say. Another one was a friend of mine and I literally didn't know what to say-maybe my silence was enough. And a few relatives we're stuck with either way.
I've gone to church weddings and sucked it up, so I can't understand how other people even THINK they can't do the same for us.

Delirium

so, it's only worth their time going to see two people make a commitment of love to each other if it's done in a church?

Truly depressing attitude for them to have in this day and age.

Beruthiel

lazygal wrote: »

One of them was my fiance's mate who is very religious and my fiance in typical joke fashion said "we'll see you at the meal so!".

Is he a friend though?
Any of our friends who came were excited to see a different kind of ceremony. What kind of friend wouldn't be there for you on your wedding day?

lazygal

Beruthiel wrote: »

Is he a friend though?
Any of our friends who came were excited to see a different kind of ceremony. What kind of friend wouldn't be there for you on your wedding day?

The guy is one of my fiance's oldest friends - they were in school together. The friend of mine who questioned our ceremony is a good friend of mine from college, we wouldn't see each other all the time but she's a good friend and I was really surpised at her.

I think I need a thicker skin or better retorts.

biko

Some people still think that if it's not in a church it's not "really real".

Tbh, I went to a christening a while back for a friends newborn and was surprised they didn't splash water on the baby, it was more like an introduction style thing.

axer

WTF?

I am getting married next year and it will be a "whatever" ceremony (we have yet to make it up but the plan is to get lots from the audience involved). If anyone makes stupid remarks like that I will happily tell them not to bother coming then. Thats f'ucked up.

robindch

lazygal wrote: »

Several relatives and friends have asked if they should "bother coming as its not in a church" or telling us they'll not come to the service because its not a church do.

If they'd prefer to be in a church, then tell them where the marriage is, and let them know where some local church is.

It's up to them where they want to go.

Beruthiel

lazygal wrote: »

I think I need a thicker skin or better retorts.

You do not need a thicker skin, you do however need to be able to speak up for yourself when someone clearly disrespects your decision on how to spend your special day. Totally insensitive of them.

IsThisIt???

Tin Foil Hat wrote: »

Stuff 'em. This is a perfect example of how religion poisons people. You're stuck with your relatives but tell those 'friends' to take a hike.

Think it's more a perfect example of how people use religion as an excuse when it suits them. As the OP has said plenty of religious people are willing and happy to attend something that's different and the others just spotted a a horrible excuse so they could skip the ceremony while claiming some idiotic moral high ground.

ballsymchugh

i gotta say, as a practicing christian, i think you're completely right to feel pissed off at them. you make a refreshing break from the usual 'we wanna keep everyone happy by having it in a church' etc. weddings aren't about other people.
it's probably a fair presumption to make that a good few of the people that aren't going probably haven't been in a church for yonks anyway.

congratulations on the up and coming wedding, hope you have a great day, and don't let anyone bug you about it.

out of interest, what kinda readings are you having?

kylith

I'm with everyone else; tell them to feck off if that's the way they feel about it. I'm sure that you can come up with some remark about how it's a shame they feel that way, especially since you put your feelings about religion aside to celebrate their wedding, you're sure they'll be missed at the reception etc.

My brother got married last year in a ceremony that started with the registrar announcing "I am not a priest!" in a loud voice. Even my uber-religious aunt showed up and kept her mouth shut.

lazygal

ballsymchugh wrote: »

i gotta say, as a practicing christian, i think you're completely right to feel pissed off at them. you make a refreshing break from the usual 'we wanna keep everyone happy by having it in a church' etc. weddings aren't about other people.

congratulations on the up and coming wedding, hope you have a great day, and don't let anyone bug you about it.

out of interest, what kinda readings are you having?

Thanks. We didn't want to make promises on our wedding day we don't intend to keep and won't be baptisng any children we have, plus we are not religious so we would not feel right having a church service "Because that's what everyone does". Our readings are a poem we like and this:
From "Goodridge Vs. Department of Health" by Massachusetts Supreme Court Chief Justice Margaret H. Marshall
Marriage is a vital social institution. The exclusive commitment of two individuals to each other nurtures love and mutual support; it brings stability to our society. For those who choose to marry, and for their children, marriage provides an abundance of legal, financial, and social benefits. In return it imposes weighty legal, financial, and social obligations....Without question, civil marriage enhances the "welfare of the community." It is a "social institution of the highest importance."

Marriage also bestows enormous private and social advantages on those who choose to marry. Civil marriage is at once a deeply personal commitment to another human being and a highly public celebration of the ideals of mutuality, companionship, intimacy, fidelity, and family.... Because it fulfils yearnings for security, safe haven, and connection that express our common humanity, civil marriage is an esteemed institution, and the decision whether and whom to marry is among life's momentous acts of self-definition.

Which says more to us about marriage than anything religious.

cavedave

lazygal

I think I need a thicker skin or better retorts.

Beruthiel

You do not need a thinker skin, you do however need to be able to speak up for yourself when someone clearly disrespects your decision on how to spend your special day. Totally insensitive of them.

Just to repeat Beruthiel you are not being a Bridezilla for being upset that some of your 'friends' are too lazy to join you to celebrate one of the most important moments of your life

Tin Foil Hat

IsThisIt??? wrote: »

Think it's more a perfect example of how people use religion as an excuse when it suits them. As the OP has said plenty of religious people are willing and happy to attend something that's different and the others just spotted a a horrible excuse so they could skip the ceremony while claiming some idiotic moral high ground.

I've been througn this myself. My own father almost refused to attend my wedding because of this. He only saw sense at the last minute.

Zombrex

lazygal wrote: »

We're having a humanist wedding service. Several relatives and friends have asked if they should "bother coming as its not in a church" or telling us they'll not come to the service because its not a church do. We've put a lot of time and thought into our service (readings, music, vows) and its really hurt my feelings that even younger people can't get their heads around a non-church marriage. I thought they would be more sensitive but how will the attitudes change if they don't even come to our service.

Just needed an atheist rant, thanks.

Unbelievable how ignorant some people are. :mad:

Its like not going to a funeral and then turning up at the house of the family afterward to eat all the food. Sorry I missed the important bit, but at least I can eat the free food now!

The meal (for both a funeral and a wedding) is for those at the ceremony. That is the purpose of the meal, traditionally, to provide those people with a meal because they are giving up the day to go to the ceremony. If you didn't go to the ceremony why the fudge are you expecting to be feed?

It really has little to do with the religious aspect. If these people genuinely think they don't have to go to the wedding but can turn up afterwards for the free food I would question if they are just pig ignorant or really that stupid. I would also question if they are really your friends.

Straight faced tell them "Oh that is a shame, we are sorry you won't be able to make the wedding, we will take you off the list for the meal. Hope you can make it to the drinks in the evening"

When they go "Oh we will be at the meal" then say well the meal is really for the people at the ceremony. That is "the wedding", the ceremony and the meal for the guests afterward. Tell them you would be happy to see them at the evening drinks if they are able to make that.

Dades

lazygal, how serious were these people being when they suggested they wouldn't turn up for the ceremony? Was it just an off-the-cuff remark that in reality they won't ever follow through on, or was it said in full seriousness?

If the latter, I think you need to formulate a response that will not alienate them, but shame them. Easily done, too.

lazygal

Dades wrote: »

lazygal, how serious were these people being when they suggested they wouldn't turn up for the ceremony? Was it just an off-the-cuff remark that in reality they won't ever follow through on, or was it said in full seriousness?

If the latter, I think you need to formulate a response that will not alienate them, but shame them. Easily done, too.

I know my fiance's mate was 100% serious-as far as he's concerned we're not married as we're not having a Catholic wedding as we're baptised Catholic (he doesn't think you can ever leave). My friend, I think, was being serious enough. She is semi-religious and I think she also thinks its not a "real" wedding so she doesn't need to make the effort.

Penn

lazygal wrote: »

I know my fiance's mate was 100% serious-as far as he's concerned we're not married as we're not having a Catholic wedding as we're baptised Catholic (he doesn't think you can ever leave). My friend, I think, was being serious enough. She is semi-religious and I think she also thinks its not a "real" wedding so she doesn't need to make the effort.

If she's that good a friend, all joking aside, you should explain to her that it is a real wedding and you'd really like her to be there. Maybe seeing your wedding there will open her eyes a bit.

As for your fiancee's friend, he should do the same thing.

Dades

lazygal wrote: »

I know my fiance's mate was 100% serious-as far as he's concerned we're not married as we're not having a Catholic wedding as we're baptised Catholic (he doesn't think you can ever leave). My friend, I think, was being serious enough. She is semi-religious and I think she also thinks its not a "real" wedding so she doesn't need to make the effort.

I bet they'd have no problem in going to a Jewish or Muslim wedding if someone graced them with an invite.

I honestly think disinviting them in the most cordial way is the best solution. If it's not a real wedding in their eyes, neither is the invite. "Understand" where they are coming from, and say no problem you don't have to come at all. Might open their minds a bit without the use of a crowbar.

witchgirl26

As another practicing christian, I also find this so disrespectful to a couple that you're supposed to care about. My cousin's wedding the year before last was a non-religious ceremony (although it was held in a church building but not one that's used anymore - long story). There was no way any of the family or friends would have thought not to go to that part.
A wedding is a wedding no matter where it is held. I just think it's downright rude to not go to the ceremony if you're planning on turning up to the meal or afters (unless you were only invited to the afters of course).

I hope your wedding goes really well and that you enjoy the day in spite of these people. Also the piece you posted that you're using is lovely.

Zombrex

lazygal wrote: »

I know my fiance's mate was 100% serious-as far as he's concerned we're not married as we're not having a Catholic wedding as we're baptised Catholic (he doesn't think you can ever leave). My friend, I think, was being serious enough. She is semi-religious and I think she also thinks its not a "real" wedding so she doesn't need to make the effort.

This logic still shows how ignorant they are. The meal is to do with putting yourself out for the ceremony. They take time out of their day to be with you who is getting married, and in recognition of this you provides a meal for them because they otherwise would have to fend for themselves in McDonalds.

How "real" the event is is irrelevant, you either give up your day to go and thus don't have time to make your own food, or you don't.

You can either try explain this to them or just un-invite them. I certainly wouldn't cave and say it is ok. Not just for yourself, but for the rest of society these idiots need to have a wake up call.

Again don't let them convince you this is some religious thing. It isn't. It is an ignorant/rude thing. These people are ignorant. They may think they have some religious moral high ground, but that just shows how ignorant they real are.

If you were having a totally non-religious event like a kids birthday party and they turned up at the very end to get a slice of cake that would be just as rude. Food is provided after events, religious or otherwise, for those who attend the event, not simply to feed anyone who wants to pop along afterwards and get a free feed.

tricky D

Here's an option. You could turn the tables on them and tell them to seek guidance from their local priest. Most will tell them to cop on. And after that, if they still feel unable to celebrate your union on the most special day of your lives, then don't come at all.

Goduznt Xzst

IsThisIt??? wrote: »

Think it's more a perfect example of how people use religion as an excuse when it suits them.

Would be my thinking also. I hate weddings. It's like going to a bad Play I'm forced to see acted out, poorly, hundreds of time in my lifetime. It's like something from Dantes 8th circle of Hell.

I show up to meals though.

Myself, we had our wedding on a Monday (not a bank holiday) because it was convenient for ourselves. I didn't hold it against those who didn't come to the ceremony but came to the meal. Why would I. It was our day, I only cared about herself.

If somebody takes umbrage with the way something is being done then let them. Lifes too short to make other people find important that which matters to you. They either do or they don't.

Zombrex

Barrington wrote: »

If she's that good a friend, all joking aside, you should explain to her that it is a real wedding and you'd really like her to be there. Maybe seeing your wedding there will open her eyes a bit.

As for your fiancee's friend, he should do the same thing.

As I said to the OP I think focusing on how "real" the wedding is is some what missing the point, and trying to convince them that it is a real wedding some what justifies their position that if it wasn't a real wedding their behavior would be ok. It still wouldn't, it would still be ignorant/rude.

What ever event the OP was having, religious or otherwise, not going to the event and yet turning up at the meal afterwards expecting to get feed is ignorant.

There are of course people who genuinely cannot make the ceremony who turn up afterwards, and people are happy to see them. But in general the meal is to feed those people at the event.

You weren't at the event, then why are you expecting to be feed? Its as simple as, whether it is a Python conference, a kids birthday party, or a humanist wedding.

cc4life

a humanist wedding service couldn't sound more lame

Zombrex

cc4life wrote: »

a humanist wedding service couldn't sound more lame

This one has motor cross and a fire breathing lion...

mikhail

cc4life wrote: »

a humanist wedding service couldn't sound more lame

Not nearly as lame as someone who sees fit to pass judgement on it.

Bottle_of_Smoke

For some reason I can understand why someone might mistakenly assume its not so important to go to a civil ceremony. Can't explain it but I just don't find it surprising.

These things are relatively new, yours will in all likliness be the first wedding ceremony of this type they've been too.

I could envisage people thinking you're only getting married for the tax benefits. As offensive as that initially sounds its not really. They may just think you are the type of couple who doesn't feel any other need to be married.

I'd suggest you send a text or explain to these people that it is just as important to you as a church wedding.

The ones who still object, well seriously f*ck them. If they're that defensive about their religion you have to wonder

Penn

cc4life wrote: »

a humanist wedding service couldn't sound more lame

Good thing you weren't invited then.

Galvasean

cc4life wrote: »

a humanist wedding service couldn't sound more lame

Yep because having some old geezer in a frock reading ambiguous passages from a very old book is, erm, so cool?

OP, before formally uninviting people, I would suggest explaining that it is a very important event for you (being your wedding and all). Some of them might change their attitude real quick and put personal grievances aside for your sake (like so many non religious do when religious friends/family have services), like any true friend would do. Those who still aren't bothered aren't worthy of your friendship.
Consider it a sort of 'friend filter'.

GO_Bear

You should invite the A&A forum :pac:



Us dam atheist evolutionists ! think of the banter

tricky D

cc4life wrote: »

a humanist wedding service couldn't sound more lame

I doubt you've ever been to one. It's so much better and more fun when the bull is stripped out.

robindch

cc4life wrote: »

a humanist wedding service couldn't sound more lame

cc4life has been carded for insulting lazygal.

Bottle_of_Smoke

cc4life wrote: »

a humanist wedding service couldn't sound more lame

Hmmm have you ever been to a church wedding?

I get jealous of the toddlers for whom it is still socially acceptable to run around screaming from boredom.

mehfesto

I did a photo job at one recently. Twas a beautiful ceremony.

They had a string quartet who played classical sounding versions of their favourite songs as people entered the room, passages from their favourite books (relating to love obviously) and families read poems.

People were paying attention throughout - even I could've told you what the significance of each part was about. There was no 'hammer and tong' style delivery from a priest pretending to care, but rather family, friends and a humanist (Minister?) who they knew very well.

I never planned to marry, but after it, I reckon if I could do it just like that, I'd be delighted to.

Enjoy it OP!

beertons

You're already married in the eyes of the state before you have a ceremony anyway. The church or where ever you have it is just bells and whistles for the rest of the crowd. Do what the others have said, tell them what time the meal is over at and they're more than welcome to join you then. (more than welcome might be a lie but sure who's to know!)

Dades

beertons wrote: »

You're already married in the eyes of the state before you have a ceremony anyway.

Otherway around, I think usually. You're not married at all until you sign the legal papers at the back of the church after the ceremony. Doesn't invalidate your point though.

The "I now pronounce you man and wife" bit doesn't count for nowt as far as anything real is concerned.

Turtwig

lazygal wrote: »

We're having a humanist wedding service. Several relatives and friends have asked if they should "bother coming as its not in a church" or telling us they'll not come to the service because its not a church do. We've put a lot of time and thought into our service (readings, music, vows) and its really hurt my feelings that even younger people can't get their heads around a non-church marriage. I thought they would be more sensitive but how will the attitudes change if they don't even come to our service.

Just needed an atheist rant, thanks.

Firstly, OP a hearty congratulations and wish you and your fiance the very best in everything.

I've had the privilege of being present at both a non religious wedding and a non religious death ceremony. Both were beautiful. You're "friends" are sadly just ignorant on the whole matter and probably believe "love" to have its fruits in religion.. In all honesty, it's nothing short of a f**king disgrace and ignorance on their part. Ask them with a straight face, "If I were dead would you attend my remembrance ceremony if it was non religious?" Then explain to them that this wedding is to you the most important wedding ceremony in the whole wide world. It will just lack any supernatural stuff. You see love as something pure and physical and you want a ceremony to mark it with your special hubby. It's your special day, explain your disappointment about them refusing to attend it. If they don't change their mind then, then I would seriously have reservations about discussing certain things with them in future if they're that stupid about something so central to their friend's life. .:mad:

strobe

Galvasean wrote: »

Y

OP, before formally uninviting people, I would suggest explaining that it is a very important event for you (being your wedding and all). Some of them might change their attitude real quick and put personal grievances aside for your sake (like so many non religious do when religious friends/family have services), like any true friend would do. Those who still aren't bothered aren't worthy of your friendship.
Consider it a sort of 'friend filter'.

Yeah, I'm going to go with what Gal on this one.

I'd give them the benefit of the doubt and presume they don't realise that the ceremony is that important to you, bit of a stretch, but like someone else said they have probably never been to a non-religious wedding and might not know the ceremony is as important to the couple as it would be in a church wedding. So I'd just get in touch with them and say "listen, the ceremony is the important part to us so I'd appreciate it if you would come". If they still say "nah, but I'll come for the afters" I'd tell them to go get fukked in that many words. You would have to be a pretty useless 'friend' to pull that crap on someone.

Lawrence1895

I heard a few times, that a civil wedding is not accepted, because one of the couple was married before or divorced, which is a sin, since the Catholic Church has got the sacrament of marriage.

Somehow not acceptable, as there is no guarantee whatsoever, that a marriage will last forever, even if the couple was blessed by a priest.