Which affordable transport projects should go ahead in 2011-2014?

dynamick

With Leo Varadkar indicating that all PPP projects will be cancelled, what does that leave for transport capital spending in 2011-2014? The transport minister's briefing states that the capital allowance is approx 4.8bn for the period but that 1.7 is already committed. Another 1bn is required for road maintenance & 400mil for railway safety.

That leaves 1.7bn for additional transport projects in the coming 4 years.

If transport spending continues as it has in the past with 2:1 ratio for roads then I'd guess that 1.1bn will go on road improvements like rural bypasses leaving 600m for rail projects like resignalling, electrification & track improvements to remove speed restrictions.

Not very inspiring.

On the plus side, RTPI and integrated ticketing are nearly live, KRP and city centre DART resignalling must be reaching completion.

Cheap stuff they could do would be
* extend the cycle hire scheme in Dublin and other cities
* improved cycle lanes
* cycle greenways
* measures to promote walking
* outsource city bus services outside Dublin.
* promote car clubs through designated public and private parking
* keep the cycle to work scheme going
* raw rtpi data for rail and bus made publicly accessible so that the independent analysis of punctuality and reliability can be carried out.
* smart cards for social welfare passes to reduce fraudulent use

any other ideas?

OurLadyofKnock

dynamick wrote: »

any other ideas?

Emigrate?

bk

dynamick wrote: »

If transport spending continues as it has in the past with 2:1 ratio for roads then I'd guess that 1.1bn will go on road improvements like rural bypasses leaving 600m for rail projects like resignalling, electrification & track improvements to remove speed restrictions.

But that ratio shouldn't continue. It was always assumed that the first half of Transport21 scheme would be focused on roads and the second half on public transport, primarily rail.

Now that the interurban motorway network has now been completed, I would expect that investment should flip 1:2 in favour of public transport. Perhaps even more like 1:4. We really don't need that much more road development. A few bits here and there like Newlands Cross, etc. but certainly nothing crazy like DOOR.

I assume all the money will go to Metro North if it goes ahead. However I agree we should also do all the small/cheap projects you mentioned.

Sponge Bob

bk wrote: »

certainly nothing crazy like DOOR.

DOOR will be considered in segments not as one project according to Leos DoT briefing. If I was ever widening our very first motorway from 30 years agao , (the Naas Bypass to the M9) I would perhaps consider re engineering a junction to start it off from .

bk

Sponge Bob wrote: »

DOOR will be considered in segments not as one project according to Leos DoT briefing. If I was ever widening our very first motorway from 30 years agao , (the Naas Bypass to the M9) I would perhaps consider re engineering a junction to start it off from .

But do we really need it?

The M50 seems to be flowing well now. Once Newlands X is done another bottleneck will be removed and you will be able to drive Cork to Belfast without hitting a single traffic light. I just don't really see the need for it, specially when we have much more pressing commuter projects in Dublin.

But I'm open to being convinced otherwise.

mgmt

We do not need the DOOR atm, but we should certainly plan for it and reserve a place for it during planning decisions.

dynamick

bk wrote: »

Now that the interurban motorway network has now been completed, I would expect that investment should flip 1:2 in favour of public transport. Perhaps even more like 1:4. We really don't need that much more road development. A few bits here and there like Newlands Cross, etc. but certainly nothing crazy like DOOR.

I think road projects generate more votes than rail projects. They bear fruit in a couple of years whereas a rail project often spans governments. People don't ring Joe Duffy about public transport infrastructure, they ring about potholes and salt grit.

I assume all the money will go to Metro North if it goes ahead. However I agree we should also do all the small/cheap projects you mentioned.

Why would they put money into enabling metro north if they doubt they'll be able to pay for the main construction? There are no votes in enabling works - quite the opposite.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsnLyHKWtrg

OurLadyofKnock

I can't decide it this is the most pathetic or soul destroying thread in the history of boards.

No DU/MN - but hey look on the bright side. We can have car pooling instead!

Be like a holiday with our chums going to work each day. Perhaps we can make music tapes to sing along on our way to the job!

Who needs public transport! Who Needs metros and DARTS!!! We have car pooling. We will be just like Americans then.

Except we won't have the guns to blow our brains out when it dawns on us how ****ty and pointless our existance is.

Stick a fork in Ireland. We are done.

DWCommuter

OurLadyofKnock wrote: »

I can't decide it this is the most pathetic or soul destroying thread in the history of boards.

No DU/MN - but hey look on the bright side. We can have car pooling instead!

Be like a holiday with our chums going to work each day. Perhaps we can make music tapes to sing along on our way to the job!

Who needs public transport! Who Needs metros and DARTS!!! We have car pooling. We will be just like Americans then.

Except we won't have the guns to blow our brains out when it dawns on us how ****ty and pointless our existance is.

Stick a fork in Ireland. We are done.

It could get even worse than pathetic and soul destroying. It could become a boards infrastructure forum that discusses cycling initiatives, Greenways, carpooling and how to screw social welfare pass holders to the wall so their buddies don't benefit. Now thats real infrastructure talk alright.:D

Spend time talking about where and why it all went wrong. Generate a reaction. Talking about stuff that is minor while accepting that we have been done over by successive Governments is futile. At the bare minimum we owe it to the next generation to educate them in how the state has consistently failed the country in providing "state of the art public transport." Thats what the last Government always called it, but where is it?

The internet is the encyclopedia of the future.

OurLadyofKnock

DWCommuter wrote: »

The internet is the encyclopedia of the future.

I'm stealing that.

Chris_5339762

A balance of "cheap enough but massively useful" would go to Cork SRRs, Dunkettle and the N28, as well as the Galway Bypass and the Newlands PPP.

I guess in reality the M18 could wait so long as the Claregalway relief road gets done.

The M20 should also be bumped up a bit.

DWCommuter

OurLadyofKnock wrote: »

I'm stealing that.

Just like "my talent is my pension". Take the words. Use them. They are free because they can inspire and inspiration is the greatest payback any of us can ask for.

BluntGuy

It was my sneaking suspicion Fine Gael would start "reviewing" everything from hospitals, to metros to prisons once they were voted in. This is no great surprise. I would dearly love to believe it's so that we can make the most effective use of our limited resources, rather than just being an exercise in having a report to hide behind so they don't have to directly take responsibility for cancelling projects that weren't happening anyway.

Pete_Cavan

The PPP model should be scrapped for road projects. The M3 has shown a toll road may not pay for itself and shadow tolling would probably cost the tax payer more. PPPs can be dangerous because they are off the balance sheet but can affect finances in the future so it is not wise to take too many on, especially with the current situation we find ourselves in. The current road projects planned as PPPs should be split into individual projects and funded from the capital budget. The new Public Works Contracts would mean most likely stay within budget.

The M11 gap and Newlands Cross would obviously work as stand alone projects, Newlands prioritised and M11 long fingered. The M17/18 could be split into two projects, north of M6 and south of M6, with the latter being the priority. If we have €1.7bn in the kitty we could do Newlands X and finish the M18 and still have plenty left over for a few bypasses and bits of rail projects like resignalling, electrification & track improvements.

MN and DU should continue as PPPs because the scale of the projects and incorporating operation, maintenance and rolling stock purchase into the contract makes sense. People expect to pay for each rail journey whereas people generally dont like tolls so rail are more suited to PPP concession contracts which can pay for themselves.

veryangryman

DWCommuter wrote: »

Just like "my talent is my pension". Take the words. Use them. They are free because they can inspire and inspiration is the greatest payback any of us can ask for.

Keep it above the waist doc....

dowlingm

IE, RPA and NRA should be keeping as much activity going as possible which retains core engineering and planning teams but keeping the involvement of external consultants and resources to a minimum. Safety first - bridges must stay up, coast erosion defence kept up, 5-10mph speed restrictions removed, AHB and manual LCs converted to CCTV or closed and fencing against animal intrusions maintained. After that - DASH2, KRP2, Maynooth line LCs, Limerick resignal and Oranmore station would be the ones that come to mind, maybe a bit of work between Athlone-Portarlington too if possible if freight shipments rise further.

monument

DWCommuter wrote: »

It could get even worse than pathetic and soul destroying. It could become a boards infrastructure forum that discusses cycling initiatives, Greenways, carpooling and how to screw social welfare pass holders to the wall so their buddies don't benefit. Now thats real infrastructure talk alright.:D

Commuter trips in the Greater Dublin Area:

• In the city centre (within the canals) 88% of trips under 10km, including 72% under 5km.
  
• In the inner suburban areas (within the M50, but outside the canals) 81.2% of journeys are under 10km, including 50% under 5km.
  
• Outer suburban areas (outside the M50) has 58.8% of journeys under 10km, including 33.9% under 5km.
  
• Large hinterland towns have 40.5% of trips under 10km, including 27.2% under 5km.
  
• Rural Hinterland has 51.3% under 10km, including 42.9% under 5km.

While cycling isn't suitable for everybody, there's loads of scope to switch a large amount of the type of journeys listed above to cycling.

There's also a small amount of people who will / can / do cycle further than 10km and there's ways around other people's problems from electric-assisted bicycles to cargo bicycles to panniers (bags which clip onto bicycles).

As I've said on another thread, cycling is a great way to increase the catchment area of railway stations and tram stops without having car parks or increasing the size of current car parks or where there's no room for expanding car parks. A government agency in the Netherlands claims: "Of all train travellers, no fewer than 40% use the bicycle to get between home and the station." Deutsche Bahn has its own bike rental system mainly to allow train passengers to complete their journeys.

With only 500 bicycles in a fairly small area, Dublin Bikes records a few thousand trips a day -- an average of 5,000 trips on weekdays in the summer and 4,000 in the winter. It recently nearly generated nearly 6,000 trips in one day.

There's loads of governments around the world investing in cycling as a cost effective, health and congestion reducing form of transport.

Not very pathetic or funny if you really look at it in a factual, measured way.

Judgement Day

There's lots of roads that still need building surely - dual carriageways to Clifden and Dingle come to mind, not to mention a badly needed motorway to Bantry from Cork? A new direct link from Limerick to the National Railway Museum at Moyasta......:rolleyes:

dynamick

Dublin Bikes is doing 5,000 trips a day. Luas C1 to docklands was intended to carry 8,000 trips per day at a cost of 100m. So I think it's fair to make comparisons.

Also 'Car Clubs' or 'Car Sharing' is not the same as Car Pooling.

Car Sharing is a form of automated short term car hire. I lived in Switzerland for a while where 400,000 people are members of car clubs, allowing them to have access to vehicles without owning them.

In Ireland, 'Car sharing' is sometimes confused with 'Car Pooling' which is giving people lifts in your car and sharing the fuel costs.

--edit
Luas BXD might be worth doing now out of the capital budget. It had a very high BCR and the Railway Order application went in 9 months ago.

DWCommuter

veryangryman wrote: »

Keep it above the waist doc....

You may have misinterpreted what I said.;)

DWCommuter

monument wrote: »

Commuter trips in the Greater Dublin Area:

• In the city centre (within the canals) 88% of trips under 10km, including 72% under 5km.
  
• In the inner suburban areas (within the M50, but outside the canals) 81.2% of journeys are under 10km, including 50% under 5km.
  
• Outer suburban areas (outside the M50) has 58.8% of journeys under 10km, including 33.9% under 5km.
  
• Large hinterland towns have 40.5% of trips under 10km, including 27.2% under 5km.
  
• Rural Hinterland has 51.3% under 10km, including 42.9% under 5km.

While cycling isn't suitable for everybody, there's loads of scope to switch a large amount of the type of journeys listed above to cycling.

There's also a small amount of people who will / can / do cycle further than 10km and there's ways around other people's problems from electric-assisted bicycles to cargo bicycles to panniers (bags which clip onto bicycles).

As I've said on another thread, cycling is a great way to increase the catchment area of railway stations and tram stops without having car parks or increasing the size of current car parks or where there's no room for expanding car parks. A government agency in the Netherlands claims: "Of all train travellers, no fewer than 40% use the bicycle to get between home and the station." Deutsche Bahn has its own bike rental system mainly to allow train passengers to complete their journeys.

With only 500 bicycles in a fairly small area, Dublin Bikes records a few thousand trips a day -- an average of 5,000 trips on weekdays in the summer and 4,000 in the winter. It recently nearly generated nearly 6,000 trips in one day.

There's loads of governments around the world investing in cycling as a cost effective, health and congestion reducing form of transport.

Not very pathetic or funny if you really look at it in a factual, measured way.

I take all this cycling stuff for granted. Its so cheap to do that it should have been done years ago with no fuss. You can be factual and measured all you like, but as a nation that has come from having billions available for public transport to virtually nothing, (while achieving little) I find it pathetic and funny that the forum has reached a level whereby the discussion of "infrastructure" has been reduced to cycling projects. I expected more anger re MN and DU.:rolleyes:

dynamick

We spent over 10 billion on roads since Transport 21 was launched. Some of them like the M9 and M3 are ludicrously over-capacity and will cost the country many millions in shadow tolling penalties for decades to come. The Motorway network will cost at least 400m per year just to maintain.

None of the large public transport project will now be started in the foreseeable future. We have a segment of WRC that loses €100 per trip. Well tough luck and move on.

Dublin has one of the lowest modal shares for cycling of any comparable city in Europe.

There are plenty of threads for expressing your angst. This is one thread where people can suggest what can be done with reduced resources.

Tech3

Given the amount of money already spent on getting the M17/M18 to tender EIB funding approved it should be built at some stage. Newlands X/M11 PPP will be built cause of importance and dangerous section of road. That would be it for roads.

5-10 years down the line the M20 and Galway city bypass. Also with luck some minor realignments. Some will be taking place this year on the N17 at 3 seperate bends.

Invest in more greenways and provide more adequate cycling lanes in the major cities and towns.

Postpone MN and plan for the construction of DU instead in a few years time. Scrap the rest of the WRC planned.

Re dynamick: The M9 and M3 were considered by many users in the Roads forum a waste of money at the time. The M9 less so due to the awful road in place and it needed improvment whether a motorway was needed was in question.

dynamick

I forgot this yoke:
http://www.blueline.ie/

(A southside BRT from St Vincent's Hospital to Sandyford Via UCD. A bus disguised as a tram with some segregated running along the Eastern bypass route.)


So road projects:
Newlands X
Gort-Tuam Motorway 57km (isn't this already contracted?)

followed in a few years by
M20 Limerick-Cork two phases 80Km
Galway bypass
Arklow-Rathnew 16.5km


Any other bypasses due?

Rail projects:
KRP2
DASH2
Cork-Dublin line improvements
Maynooth LCs (& electrification?)
Luas BXD

I wonder is Lucan Luas a possibility given the minister's geography?

Also the electric car scheme is on hold while Pat Rabbitte decides whether to authorise the grants. Apparently 400 Nissan Leafs have been ordered, subject to grant approval.

monument

DWCommuter wrote: »

I take all this cycling stuff for granted. Its so cheap to do that it should have been done years ago with no fuss. You can be factual and measured all you like, but as a nation that has come from having billions available for public transport to virtually nothing, (while achieving little) I find it pathetic and funny that the forum has reached a level whereby the discussion of "infrastructure" has been reduced to cycling projects. I expected more anger re MN and DU.:rolleyes:

By taking anything for granted means it'll never be done.

And yes, cycling infrastructure, that's the main way cities have increased their modal share of cycling -- look at the Netherlands and Denmark etc. Not billions, but you do need millions.

Re Metro North -- the energy used for anger is better used constructively (I'll let you know what I mean when I can).

DoesNotCompute

dynamick wrote: »

Which affordable transport projects should go ahead in 2011-2014?

1. Dublin Metro
2. Integrate the Irish Rail Smart Card with Dublin Bus and Luas Ones
3. Dart Underground
4. Extend Dart Underground/Dublin Metro/whateva out to Maynooth

Judgement Day

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

1. Dublin Metro
2. Integrate the Irish Rail Smart Card with Dublin Bus and Luas Ones
3. Dart Underground
4. Extend Dart Underground/Dublin Metro/whateva out to Maynooth

Affordable - the country is broke.

dowlingm

dynamick wrote: »

Also the electric car scheme is on hold while Pat Rabbitte decides whether to authorise the grants. Apparently 400 Nissan Leafs have been ordered, subject to grant approval.

Nooooooo! No subsidies to the SIMI for cars that run 2-4 hours a day and for electricians to wander around looking for places to install charging points. Extending electrification of Dublin rail should take priority for any funds for electric transport. [Edit - FG have said they favour Maynooth line electrification which is in Varadkar's vicinity too]

dynamick

Maybe you're right and electrifying rail is a better use of money (although the electric car grants come out of the Energy budget rather than the transport budget). Many countries are incentivising EVs including Canada
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/vehicle/electric/index.shtml

The idea behind the government subsiding the first 6,000 cars and getting the ESB to install 1500 charging points is to establish a market.

dowlingm

The difference is though that Canada and the US have automotive industries which will to some extent benefit from the retention of the idea that families are entitled to 2,3 or 4 cars and it's all okay as long as they're electric. The addition of charging points will also require electrical investment over a much wider area, whereas electrification of rail occurs over a defined corridor and the vehicles are guaranteed to operate on a longer average service day than a private vehicle unless it's a delivery van or taxi.

I'm not saying electric cars are bad (although plug-in hybrid is probably the better call until full infrastructure build out) but I am suspicious of any car grant which benefits car dealers and at least I would deprioritise them behind electric mass transit, electric taxis and electric local delivery vehicles which all have clearly definable geographic use boundaries.

Tech3

dynamick wrote: »

Any other bypasses due?

Funding approved this year:

N22 Tralee Bypass
N5 Longford Bypass
N3 Belturbet Bypass

N2 Slane Bypass should get built sometime over the next few years possibly next year depending on tender costs.

superelliptic

OurLadyofKnock wrote: »

I'm stealing that.

As am I....

antoobrien

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

1. Dublin Metro
2. Integrate the Irish Rail Smart Card with Dublin Bus and Luas Ones
3. Dart Underground
4. Extend Dart Underground/Dublin Metro/whateva out to Maynooth

The one in bold is due to be rolled out later this year, not that I believe them but that's what they're telling the people that go out to businesses and have to answer questions.

As for the other 3, prioritise DU above all else - to put in MN first would be like buling motorwways to Dublin with no M50 there to distribute traffic a little.

M6 GCOB, M17/18 & M20 are all required to provide decent transport infrastructure to the West, the M17/18 especially due to the amount of money already spent on it.

Chris_5339762

Hopefully Dunkettle will be put reasonably close to the top of the priority list.

ilovegermany

Tech3 wrote: »

Funding approved this year:

N22 Tralee Bypass
N5 Longford Bypass
N3 Belturbet Bypass

N2 Slane Bypass should get built sometime over the next few years possibly next year depending on tender costs.

Assuming that even the EIB partially approved funding projects are dead for the moment due to our self-inflicted economic disaster how about focusing on key bypasses on existing National Primary Routes that would further imporve traffic times on key routes and add directly to benefits of existing motorway network. These are congestion killers that would all have real positive economic impacts and would be a good start following on from Newlands Cross, N11 gap etc:

1. Adare Bypass (including upgrading of a couple of km of the Croom Bypass to facilitate building of M20 later)
2. Ballybofey/Stranolar Bypass - part of the "Atlantic Corridor" and choked with traffic
3. Cork Southern Ring Road interchanges - Wilton roundabout is like "Russian roulete" - but its thread says there is problems with the contracts
4. Dunkettle Interchange - but probably take at least another 2 or 3 years to get planning consent
5. Thurles bypass - its cruel trying to get from Nenagh side to the M8
6. Extra lane on Naas bypass and improving junctions.
7. Any improvement scheme on the road between Waterford to Limerick (N24??) - especially Tipp town bypass

NITransport

Has there been any further update on whether Varadkar will backtrack on the previous governments financial support to the A5 improvements?

dynamick

Ministerial briefing notes

B. A5 PROJECT (NORTH WEST GATEWAY TO AUGHNACLOY)
In the context of the St. Andrew‘s Agreement the Government made a commitment to provide
£400/€5S0 million to a roads investment package for Northern Ireland which includes the
upgrading of the A5 road from Aughnacloy to Derry/Letterkenny to dual-carriageway standard.
Work commenced in 2007 and to date all project milestones have been met on schedule. The A5
project milestone and payment schedule envisages construction starting in 2012 and finishing in
2015.
An initial payment of €9 million from the Irish Government’s contribution was made in 2009
following selection of the Preferred Route for the road. The next payment of E11 sterling was
triggered by the third project milestone — Publication of Draft Orders and Environmental
Statement- achieved in November 2010. The payment schedule envisages the payment being
made in July 2011 subject to the agreed procedures governing the payment. As part of this
procedure an agreed progress report on the project prepared by the Cross Border Steering
Group was reviewed by the NSMC Transport Sector at its meeting on 9th February 2011. The next step will be approval of the payment by the NSMC Plenary meeting scheduled for June
2011.
The Department's Four Year Plan provides for a scheduled drawdown in 2012 on reaching the
fourth project milestone. No specific provision has been made in this Department's allocations
for scheduled drawdowns for subsequent years to 2016. The Department of Finance has
indicated that it is envisaged that payments will be met from within the overall Government
capital envelope. The anticipated spend profile for 2013 and 2014 is Stg£10 million and Stg£130
million respectively. Further payments of Stg£120 million and £118 million are anticipated in
2015 and 2016.

NITransport

Cheer dynamick, I'm sure by July we'll see if FG supports this scheme if the money is available. But since it's such small amounts (on a national scale) we won't really know if they're financially committed until 2013. But hopefully we'll have a brighter economic outlook by that point, plus the DRDNI will have already started construction that should the money be unavailable they'll try and push ahead with it at the detriment to other improvements in NI.

DWCommuter

OMG! This project appears as if it was committed to by a southern Government who thought we could channel money northwards without any consequence. However the consequence has arrived and its alive and well. It was a nice thought to think we could reverse decades of poor relation status with our northern neighbours, but it won't be happening. This road may happen, but I doubt too much southern money will be involved.

dynamick

From an electoral point of view it mostly benefits Donegal. Is Donegal an important constituency for the government? They elected no labour TDs and 2 shinners, 1FF, 1IND, 2FG.

Motorway may be overkill in any case. Would a few bypasses be enough for the traffic volume? DRD still says it is going ahead but will soak up most of their capital transport budget for several years. http://applications.drdni.gov.uk/publications/document.asp?docid=20567

oharach

NITransport wrote: »

the DRDNI will have already started construction that should the money be unavailable they'll try and push ahead with it at the detriment to other improvements in NI.

There is next to no scope for the DRDNI pushing ahead with the A5 DC at the expense of other projects – because they've already sacrificed almost every other project already.

I see you live in Derry, and I can understand why you would be supportive, but it's almost the only NI roads project that will go ahead for about 3-5 years, and I don't think that can be justified.

If you take out southern money, there are plenty of other projects that are better value for money for the NI taxpayer than sections of the A5. Dualling south of Omagh should be put on ice, with money redirected to the A6 dualling, M2/3 to A12 flyovers at York Street and track work on the Dublin line between Lurgan and Knockmore.

Sponge Bob

Southern money is ringfenced for the A5 and A8 ( larne road) only. If one must cutback then Derry Omagh would be the logical remaining project . If one must cut back further then the Strabane- Omagh stretch comes to mind. Belfast got lots of mega projects over the years, the freeflow westlink was only the most recent.

The A5 needs a lot of work.

NITransport

I do come from Derry, but thankfully in my case I'm not blinded by self interests... it was a shame some TDs and MPs in the past weren't like wise.

I think the fact that FG doesn't have a strong hold in the Donegal is all the more reason to support this. It would show maturity and a new kind of politics and could lead them to win votes. Naturally Sinn Fein would claim their rallying got it done.

I do think the NW seriously requires infrastructure now that every other city and region on the Island infinitely better infrastructure and if we continue to lag behind, it will only further deteriorate the economy of the region.

The order I would do NW infrastructure improvements would be:
1. Derry - Strabane A5 Section simultaneously with Derry - Coleraine Track improvements. ( I would also have funded a new railway station at the end of the peace bridge to encourage rail travel coupled with a morning express service.)
2. Strabane to Omagh & Castledawson to M22 simultaneously.
When funds were available...
3. Derry to Dungiven & Omagh to Auchnacloy.

I do know this is a land of endless money, but they could be done in instalments over the next decade plus... we're bound to have recovered by then! Nothing wrong with thinking optimistically...

Lest we forget Belfast should still be getting E-Way and W-Way and Larne the dual - carriageway.

I just look forward to the future when we can stop worrying about road infrastructure as we'll have good infrastructure and perhaps start improving speeds on intercity rail routes...

dynamick

Is Derry-Belfast not more important than Derry-Aughnacloy? Last time I drove Dublin-Derry I went via Belfast and it was very quick. The Derry-Belfast train is unbelievably slow.

NITransport

It probably is, but I think improving both connections is vital and that's why I would want the Belfast Rail line improvements to go ahead a long with the first phase of A5 improvements... don't want to put all your eggs in one proverbial basket.

The Derry - Belfast line is in a worse condition than the A6 after all. And the worst bit of the A6 is between Toome and the M22/2 so this part should be improved first when when A6 works go ahead.

Conor Murphy has hinted here that he would consider any suggestion.

Anyone that has used Waterside Station will know it's a pain to get too, and looks like a 70's public toilet. Not a real good way to entice would be travellers.

I would like to see something along the lines (no pun intended) of Umea East Station Sweden, of course on a smaller scale.

superelliptic

antoobrien wrote: »

The one in bold is due to be rolled out later this year, not that I believe them but that's what they're telling the people that go out to businesses and have to answer questions.

As for the other 3, prioritise DU above all else - to put in MN first would be like buling motorwways to Dublin with no M50 there to distribute traffic a little.

M6 GCOB, M17/18 & M20 are all required to provide decent transport infrastructure to the West, the M17/18 especially due to the amount of money already spent on it.

Just had a look at that integrate ticketing system. Its a pritty simple system to impliment, with the most hassle being the instalation of the card readers themselves, but the billing system is easy to come up with. I think that if the pilot is successfull, that this should be rolled out nationwide, to every train and bus service in the country, so everyone can buy one card, and use it for everything: local bus services in any town/city, intercity rail, dart, luas, the lot.

This could make commuters quite happy if its done well. (/scepticism )

DU being done first before MN would also make more sense. I hope Leo sees past short term politics and puts that project as his no. 1.

superelliptic

dynamick wrote: »

From an electoral point of view it mostly benefits Donegal. Is Donegal an important constituency for the government? They elected no labour TDs and 2 shinners, 1FF, 1IND, 2FG.

Motorway may be overkill in any case. Would a few bypasses be enough for the traffic volume? DRD still says it is going ahead but will soak up most of their capital transport budget for several years. http://applications.drdni.gov.uk/publications/document.asp?docid=20567

Donegal needs better roads rapidly - Im not exaggerating. Have you ever driven up there? Its like travelling back in time :eek:

saywhatyousee

Not one person mentioned the N4 between colloney-castelbaldwin.Its a national disgrace i have driven on better R roads.It carry's 27,500 cars a day so its no white elephant.Its the only section of the whole N4 to never get an upgrade

dynamick

superelliptic wrote: »

Donegal needs better roads rapidly - Im not exaggerating. Have you ever driven up there? Its like travelling back in time :eek:

Donegal also needs better drivers

mgmt

saywhatyousee wrote: »

Not one person mentioned the N4 between colloney-castelbaldwin.Its a national disgrace i have driven on better R roads.It carry's 27,500 cars a day so its no white elephant.Its the only section of the whole N4 to never get an upgrade

No it does not. That section carries about 6,000.

http://www.nra.ie/Publications/DownloadableDocumentation/Transportation/file,3675,en.pdf

Stinicker

dynamick wrote: »

Donegal also needs better drivers

Its part of a culture thing up there, on of their main "Sports" is Rallying and half the general population between 17 to 30 thinks they are driving in the WRC with their Scooby Soobies or whatever nick name they have on their Subaru rust bucket.