The process to follow when buying at a mart?

NewBeefFarmer

I often wondered how it works. Is it the same as a car auction. At car auct i go with my deposit and get a number etc and hold up a piece of paper with the number when bidding.

How do i bid?
When can i take my stock away after i bought?

Can someone explain the whole process to me please?

Thanks.
NewBeefFarmer

reilig

NewBeefFarmer wrote: »

I often wondered how it works. Is it the same as a car auction. At car auct i go with my deposit and get a number etc and hold up a piece of paper with the number when bidding.

How do i bid?
When can i take my stock away after i bought?

Can someone explain the whole process to me please?

Thanks.
NewBeefFarmer

No need to lay a deposit - us farming folk are very trustworthy :eek:
No need for a bidding number either. Just stand around the ring, wink, nod or raise your hand or finger to the auctioneer to bid.

You can take your stock away the minute that you pay for them.
Make sure that you have your herd number in place before you buy anything.

NewBeefFarmer

Krikey. Seems very straight forward. I assume each farmer keeps a tally of what hes bought for when going to the check out.

Now here, so ur animals could end up all over the place in the mart then in diff pins, how do ye get them loaded?

NewBeefFarmer

Also. Are you saying so that the auct doesnt keep track of whos bought what?

Tipp Man

Relig has explained the bidding

Once you have paid for them in the office you will get a pass which you then give to the head guy in the yard. This proves that you have paid for your cattle and can remove them from the mart premise

If you are in a good mart the yard guys will sort out your cattle and bring them to the crush for you

If you are in 99% of other marts you have to sort them out yourself.

Apart from the pain in the arse job it is their is also an insurance element to consider - you sorting the cattle means the cattle aren't insured against injury etc but if the mart employees do it the cattle are covered.

However you will end up doing it yourself -or if you are getting somebody to bring them home for you he might do it for you (whoever is bringing the cattle from the mart needs the pass)

Before you even think about buying anything at a mart you should go a few times and observe what goes on. If you arrive in a mart like a total green horn then the dealers will take you for a (very costly) ride

Tipp Man

NewBeefFarmer wrote: »

Also. Are you saying so that the auct doesnt keep track of whos bought what?

When the autioneer doesn't know who you are they will ask after the bidding has finished

vanderbadger

NewBeefFarmer wrote: »

Also. Are you saying so that the auct doesnt keep track of whos bought what?

if you are the highest bidder for a particular animal or animals you will probably be asked for your name by the guy beside the auctioneer, normally they know all the lads buying but in your case they may not, this way they can write down who bought what lot and this info is sent up to the office, after a while you go up to the office, tell them who you are and they should be able to see what lots you bought, you pay and get the pass out slip which will allow you remove animals from mart..by the way does your auld fella have an account at the mart, if not it might be worth your while to ring them first, these days i think they are a bit sus about taking cheques from lads they have no record of

MfMan

A more detailed description;

Try to identify stock beforehand that you are interested in buying and make a note of their lot no. (secretly if you like, it may not pay to draw too much attention to stock you want to buy in case others see this and bid / poll (drive up the price) against you.)

Introduce yourself to the auctioneer / clerk selling the cattle prior to the sale, it will save time having to give your name to them if and when you buy anything.

Don't bid straight away when the auctioneer opens the bidding on your prospective stock, let him drop the price first to more reasonable levels; e.g. a good 500Kg bullock may be tendered by the auctioneer at 1100e starting off, but this may drop to a more reasonable 900e before bids are submitted. 'Opening' bids on animals are a small art in themselves.

Keep bidding by making some sign or token to the auctioneer. Try to spot if you can who's bidding against you. Contrary to popular opinion, as often as not farmers will make stock just as dear to buy as dealers. If you have gone far enough on an animal without buying, stop making signals, look away or just shake your head at the auctioneer.

Auctioneers have their own methods of selling; some take a few rounds of bids before looking at the seller; if the seller is satisfied with the way the price is going, he will tell the auctioneer, who will then say 'On the market' which means the animal is going to be sold. Sometimes the seller wants a bit more, which the auctioneer will announce. Other auctioneers will keep taking bids until the final one is taken, then look at the seller who has to decide whether to keep or sell. If sold, the auctioneer will drop the hammer.

If good stock is about to come into the ring, those interested at ringside may put our their hands / fists / fingers etc. to indicate they intend to bid on the animal. This is a form of claiming and is frowned upon in a lot of places as it may mean that a fair market for the stock isn't being created, as rival dealers may not bid against one another. In reality, good stock will always make their price.

Sometimes cattle not sold, usually earlier in the sale, will be put in the ring again later (re-runs) to see if they can fetch a better price. This is most noticeable if the lot no. is out of sequence with the preceding lots. Most dealers will know what the cattle were making previously and won't bid in excess of that price. Sometimes cattle not sold in the ring can be bought outside directly from the seller, in which case either or both parties sort out the details in the office.

Buying cattle in groups of 2 or more can be a double-edged sword; buyers may like to purchase this way as it fills up a load quicker and cattle bought with comrades will settle quicker when brought home. However, bad stock is often mixed in with good in the hope that the good will 'carry' the bad. Additionally, be aware of the test date of cattle you may buy, it may be troublesome on you to have to test them again before you can sell them. Cattle can't be sold in marts if they haven't been previously tested within 12 months. Cattle may be sold to factories *I think* within 18 months of test as long as the seller's herd is itself within the 12 months of test. Be aware too of the age of cattle you buy, older cattle (> 30, 36 or 48 months) may be penalised when sold to the factories. Buying cattle sold by a dealer can be dodgy as these could have been hawked around a lot of places and be more subject to disease or stress. Better if possible to know who is selling them and if they have been reared by the seller. Cattle who have been moved through 4 or more owners are not entitled to receive a bonus under the QPA scheme when slaughtered.

If you do buy, the clerk will make a note of your name and the selling price. These will shortly be entered on the system in the office, where you have to go to pay and get your pass-out. Cattle should only exit the mart at one point, (to prevent theft), where you will have to give the clerk checking them out the pass-out. If you are bringing them home yourself, try to have your trailer backed in before the sale ends to save time having to queue up. Keep bought cattle indoors overnight if you can to let them settle before letting them out to grass. If you bought one on their own, try to put some others with them to help them settle. Keep an eye on them for a few days once at grass to see that they don't break out.

Write your herd number, name, address, signature and date of movement on the back of the animals blue card upon purchase; entries here will tell you how many pairs of hands if any the animal has been through, although this is not always accurate. You may also have to record details on your herd register, unless you are registered with the Dept. of Ag's online system.

All the above is from experience and I still consider myself a novice!

Tipp Man

vanderbadger wrote: »

if you are the highest bidder for a particular animal or animals you will probably be asked for your name by the guy beside the auctioneer, normally they know all the lads buying but in your case they may not, this way they can write down who bought what lot and this info is sent up to the office, after a while you go up to the office, tell them who you are and they should be able to see what lots you bought, you pay and get the pass out slip which will allow you remove animals from mart..by the way does your auld fella have an account at the mart, if not it might be worth your while to ring them first, these days i think they are a bit sus about taking cheques from lads they have no record of

Excellent point - the marts have really clamped down on this. You should ring them and see would they need a letter or anything from your bank

vanderbadger

those interested at ringside may put our their hands / fists / fingers etc. to indicate they intend to bid on the animal. This is a form of claiming and is frowned upon in a lot of places as it may mean that a fair market for the stock isn't being created, as rival dealers may not bid against one another

seems to be alot of this gang in ennis anytime im there..kinda i'le take this one and you take that one, cant stand that crack

MfMan

vanderbadger wrote: »

those interested at ringside may put our their hands / fists / fingers etc. to indicate they intend to bid on the animal. This is a form of claiming and is frowned upon in a lot of places as it may mean that a fair market for the stock isn't being created, as rival dealers may not bid against one another

seems to be alot of this gang in ennis anytime im there..kinda i'le take this one and you take that one, cant stand that crack

Bit surprised at that, as I know the manager McNamara frowns upon that type of thing - bet nobody does it notieceably if he's standing in the box. One of the auctioneers in Athenry will bawl you out if you try it before a bullock comes in.

bob charles

vanderbadger wrote: »

those interested at ringside may put our their hands / fists / fingers etc. to indicate they intend to bid on the animal. This is a form of claiming and is frowned upon in a lot of places as it may mean that a fair market for the stock isn't being created, as rival dealers may not bid against one another

seems to be alot of this gang in ennis anytime im there..kinda i'le take this one and you take that one, cant stand that crack

thats normal at any auction, it doesnt affect the price usually achieved, sometimes a couple of cut throat finishers claim the same animals and this is when the fun begins:D.Often pride means that an animal makes way over the odds. Without finishers and dealers there wont be a mart. the most important thing at any auction is to know the value of what your buying, the regulars will take the price right up to market value before stopping so be aware, be very aware

bob charles

MfMan wrote: »

Bit surprised at that, as I know the manager McNamara frowns upon that type of thing - bet nobody does it notieceably if he's standing in the box. One of the auctioneers in Athenry will bawl you out if you try it before a bullock comes in.

it happens at every auction where there are regular buyers of whatever is for sale be it cars/machinery/animals.

NewBeefFarmer

vanderbadger wrote: »

if you are the highest bidder for a particular animal or animals you will probably be asked for your name by the guy beside the auctioneer, normally they know all the lads buying but in your case they may not, this way they can write down who bought what lot and this info is sent up to the office, after a while you go up to the office, tell them who you are and they should be able to see what lots you bought, you pay and get the pass out slip which will allow you remove animals from mart..by the way does your auld fella have an account at the mart, if not it might be worth your while to ring them first, these days i think they are a bit sus about taking cheques from lads they have no record of

Ya. We have an account

vanderbadger

bob charles wrote: »

thats normal at any auction, it doesnt affect the price usually achieved, sometimes a couple of cut throat finishers claim the same animals and this is when the fun begins:D.Often pride means that an animal makes way over the odds. Without finishers and dealers there wont be a mart. the most important thing at any auction is to know the value of what your buying, the regulars will take the price right up to market value before stopping so be aware, be very aware

heard a story there a while back about a big punch up betwen 2 buyers in gort mart whether its true or not

reilig

vanderbadger wrote: »

heard a story there a while back about a big punch up betwen 2 buyers in gort mart whether its true or not

It does always get a cheer from the crowd in the local marts to me when 2 dealers get stuck into an animal and put it to a crazy price because of stubbornness

pakalasa

A few to add to the very good tips given already;

• Be careful buying single cattle if you have no cattle at home already. You may only buy one bullock. Take him home alone and he will not only will 'throw you all over the road', if you are towing in a box, but when he hits the field alone, forget it. He'll be gone over the ditch in no time.
• Cattle get dearer when the lights come on in a mart. Hard to believe, but true. A dealer told me that once. They look better in the light.
• Single cattle are cheaper than multiples. farmers prefer to buy in groups. See tip 1 above - .
• You could write your name and herd number on a piece of paper. You can then give it to the drover in the ring, It beats having to shout out your name. He'll give it then to the auctioneers assistant.
• Don't let the dealers intimidate you. After a while you realise that those that make the loudest noise actually buy the least cattle. Compared to your average farmer, these guys will skin you though, given half a chance.
• It can be very frustrating at first, but once you buy and are happy when you get them home, it can be very satisfying.

Bizzum

Hey NewBeefFarmer,
You really need to get yourself to a salesyard with someone that knows the ropes.
You will learn more there in a couple of hours than reading about it for a month!

Nettleman

Do people think if a mart are selling a suckler cow and calf pair, and the calf doesn't belong to that cow, they should disclose it at the ring, or is it buyer beware? Disclose or don't disclose?

Farrell

Nettleman wrote: »

Do people think if a mart are selling a suckler cow and calf pair, and the calf doesn't belong to that cow, they should disclose it at the ring, or is it buyer beware? Disclose or don't disclose?

Do you mean calf & foster mother, still a pair but not a natural pair?
If so bought 1 myself a few year ago, worked out the best, but it is buyer beware.
Having trouble?

Nettleman

Farrell wrote: »

Do you mean calf & foster mother, still a pair but not a natural pair?
If so bought 1 myself a few year ago, worked out the best, but it is buyer beware.
Having trouble?

Glad worked out for you, but I didn't take the chance-Not setup for daily milking or bucket rearing calf if the pair wouldn't take. If your trying to protect yourself, you would have to try and read the small writing on tags which is not easy, so I think mart and seller should disclose

Farrell

Nettleman wrote: »

Glad worked out for you, but I didn't take the chance-Not setup for daily milking or bucket rearing calf if the pair wouldn't take. If your trying to protect yourself, you would have to try and read the small writing on tags which is not easy, so I think mart and seller should disclose

That might not work as cow may not of being bought at some time.
To me if sold as an item & not working is the same as buying an incalf that never calves.

Kovu

Farrell wrote: »

That might not work as cow may not of being bought at some time.
To me if sold as an item & not working is the same as buying an incalf that never calves.

Think you've hit the nail on the head there. A cow & calf would be sold as correct & fit for purpose, which would be to rear the calf. If it wasn't declared off the rostrim by the auctioneer, you'd be able to throw up the sale after.
Would be along the same lines of selling heifers as maidens.

Seen a couple of teams like that in my time, one in particular I remember as the calf was a super looking calf, real heavily boned blue which are few and far between. Cow was a thin white blue as I recall, remember being suspicious so checked the card when I was back in the office and were totally different, think the calf came from the south, had been fostered on perfectly though. But the fella who bought the pair at a fairly high price had a face like a slapped arse when he got the cards and noticed the discrepancy between them :pac: No way he could return her as it was a legit cow & calf, just not her genetic calf. Caveat Emptor.

Nettleman

Kovu wrote: »

Think you've hit the nail on the head there. A cow & calf would be sold as correct & fit for purpose, which would be to rear the calf. If it wasn't declared off the rostrim by the auctioneer, you'd be able to throw up the sale after.
Would be along the same lines of selling heifers as maidens.

Seen a couple of teams like that in my time, one in particular I remember as the calf was a super looking calf, real heavily boned blue which are few and far between. Cow was a thin white blue as I recall, remember being suspicious so checked the card when I was back in the office and were totally different, think the calf came from the south, had been fostered on perfectly though. But the fella who bought the pair at a fairly high price had a face like a slapped arse when he got the cards and noticed the discrepancy between them :pac: No way he could return her as it was a legit cow & calf, just not her genetic calf. Caveat Emptor.

So, the question was should fostered pair be disclosed or not -If im reading you right, your saying if works, no need to disclose? But some lads look at a cows bag, and if shes milky they assume the heifer calf will have 50% of that breeding-If not a natural pair, it should be disclosed I think anyways

MFdaveIreland

what is the deal with people trying to shaft other lads, dealers and farmers bidding boys up for badness.

Kovu

Nettleman wrote: »

So, the question was should fostered pair be disclosed or not -If im reading you right, your saying if works, no need to disclose? But some lads look at a cows bag, and if shes milky they assume the heifer calf will have 50% of that breeding-If not a natural pair, it should be disclosed I think anyways

Oh no I agree it should be announced to buyers, 95%+ would be genetic pairs so people wouldn't think to check otherwise. I was just saying it doesn't have to be disclosed according to mart rules.

Nettleman

MFdaveIreland wrote: »

what is the deal with people trying to shaft other lads, dealers and farmers bidding boys up for badness.

That grand, and should be applauded:D:D.

Mad4simmental

One thing that pisses me off is taking bids off the wall. Iv left heifers with the auctioneer doing it because I knew what he was at and went in to pay for the ones I got only to find he dropped them on me anyway. So I trew up the lot.

Count Mondego

Mad4simmental wrote: »

One thing that pisses me off is taking bids off the wall. Iv left heifers with the auctioneer doing it because I knew what he was at and went in to pay for the ones I got only to find he dropped them on me anyway. So I trew up the lot.

Would you be blackballed for this by that mart? Agree entirely with you.

Nettleman

Get the impression that mart practices need an overhaul-too loose and needs to be dragged into the 21st century - also, are you entitled to ask to see card of an animal your interested in before they go in the ring?display boards are still a waste of space in some marts with scant details displayed

Mad4simmental

Count Mondego wrote: »

Would you be blackballed for this by that mart? Agree entirely with you.

Probably but it was a "special" sale a long way from my usuall mart so I didn't really give a fcuk.

Kovu

Nettleman wrote: »

Get the impression that mart practices need an overhaul-too loose and needs to be dragged into the 21st century - also, are you entitled to ask to see card of an animal your interested in before they go in the ring?display boards are still a waste of space in some marts with scant details displayed

Yes & yes. Recommend looking at the card in particular as the infoscience system can have a few glitches that can cause errors in the movement area of the display board.

Why do you think I got out of them? Some marts are terrified of change

I said

Nettleman wrote: »

Get the impression that mart practices need an overhaul-too loose and needs to be dragged into the 21st century - also, are you entitled to ask to see card of an animal your interested in before they go in the ring?display boards are still a waste of space in some marts with scant details displayed

My local mart gives has a print out on view lot no,age and breed all those details are available to view before sale.
Not certain about cows and calfs though

Limestone Cowboy

Mad4simmental wrote: »

Probably but it was a "special" sale a long way from my usuall mart so I didn't really give a fcuk.

I'm guessing/hoping you say Gort

Muckit

ALWAYS keep note YOURSELF and write down the price of the animal whether you are buying or selling. Also lot numbers.

NEVER trust a mart to keep track of this data 100%. Raise any discrepancies at the earliest opportunity with the office clerk and/or manager and ask to hear the tape if necessary.

ignore this small piece of advice at your peril.

The way beef farming margins are gone, buying and selling days are every bit as important as the days you spend pulling your legs out of the muck. Keep the head sharp. Don't be a fool.

Mad4simmental

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

I'm guessing/hoping you say Gort

No not Gort, do u have a hate for that place? Ha, your on the right lines but in the midlands.

Limestone Cowboy

Mad4simmental wrote: »

No not Gort, do u have a hate for that place? Ha, your on the right lines but in the midlands.

I was being taken for an innocent young fella selling a heifer there one time, auctioneer told me not to be a thick cnut that I was getting the price of her, got €230 more for here a few weeks after in Ennis and that wouldn't have been a big price for her either but somewhere close to market value, used to go there with a lot of cattle but that finished that!

Nettleman

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

I was being taken for an innocent young fella selling a heifer there one time, auctioneer told me not to be a thick cnut that I was getting the price of her, got €230 more for here a few weeks after in Ennis and that wouldn't have been a big price for her either but somewhere close to market value, used to go there with a lot of cattle but that finished that!

but how many lads are afraid to question auctioneers...I was left standing in the middle of the office floor while my query was been dealt with, in an attempt to shame me in front of other famers coming in and out-but I wasn't going away

farawaygrass

Had a run in with auctioneer in Gort myself last November 12 months. Was selling 5 weanlings together and was getting on only alright, when bidding stopped I told him I'd want a bit more, and he said he wouldn't ask for any more as the fella with the highest bid buys a lot of cattle there and had only sold a lot not long before. I still said no and he just moved on, didn't as much look at me again. Thought it was very bad form, I mean what difference did it make that the other lad was a "good cudtomer". I was entitled to the best I could get too. Surprised he even talked to me like that, maybe a slip of the tongue. Sold them about ten days for 20e more. Haven't been to Gort since, wouldn't mind but it has a great set up.

Limestone Cowboy

farawaygrass wrote: »

Had a run in with auctioneer in Gort myself last November 12 months. Was selling 5 weanlings together and was getting on only alright, when bidding stopped I told him I'd want a bit more, and he said he wouldn't ask for any more as the fella with the highest bid buys a lot of cattle there and had only sold a lot not long before. I still said no and he just moved on, didn't as much look at me again. Thought it was very bad form, I mean what difference did it make that the other lad was a "good cudtomer". I was entitled to the best I could get too. Surprised he even talked to me like that, maybe a slip of the tongue. Sold them about ten days for 20e more. Haven't been to Gort since, wouldn't mind but it has a great set up.

Tis handy to run over in the evening and there's no bother entering cattle like in Ennis. I was fair annoyed the same night after it though, won't be rushing back there again. Takes the guts of a fortnight for the cheque to come too which is a dose.

Muckit

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

I was being taken for an innocent young fella selling a heifer there one time, auctioneer told me not to be a thick cnut that I was getting the price of her, got €230 more for here a few weeks after in Ennis and that wouldn't have been a big price for her either but somewhere close to market value, used to go there with a lot of cattle but that finished that!

Might be the place to buy though!!

farawaygrass

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

Tis handy to run over in the evening and there's no bother entering cattle like in Ennis. I was fair annoyed the same night after it though, won't be rushing back there again. Takes the guts of a fortnight for the cheque to come too which is a dose.

Tbh I never sold before that time, only bought. But was well posed off to say I wouldn't return anytime sooner. 2 weeks sounds a bit much, a week should be well sufficient. Out if interest who was your auctuoneer-glasses with strong Clare accent or government salary managerial type man?

Limestone Cowboy

farawaygrass wrote: »

Tbh I never sold before that time, only bought. But was well posed off to say I wouldn't return anytime sooner. 2 weeks sounds a bit much, a week should be well sufficient. Out if interest who was your auctuoneer-glasses with strong Clare accent or government salary managerial type man?

The latter, also a publican. Dunno how anyone would vote for him!

farawaygrass

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

The latter, also a publican. Dunno how anyone would vote for him!

Same as myself! Hears him a lot before and thought he was fair but wouldn't bother with him anymore. As you said though, the time is a real draw with the working men and all. Always a good crowd. Only one other negative thing about the place though-drover in heifer ring, the stick should be taken of him. He's brutal with it

Toplink

farawaygrass wrote: »

Only one other negative thing about the place though-drover in heifer ring, the stick should be taken of him. He's brutal with it

Same fella used to allegedly drink a pint of blood above in Duffys factory every Monday morning for the cure, back in the day

Limestone Cowboy

farawaygrass wrote: »

Same as myself! Hears him a lot before and thought he was fair but wouldn't bother with him anymore. As you said though, the time is a real draw with the working men and all. Always a good crowd. Only one other negative thing about the place though-drover in heifer ring, the stick should be taken of him. He's brutal with it

Ya he's fair bad for beating cattle and roaring all right. Your not the first lad to say the stick should be taken from him either.

farawaygrass

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

Ya he's fair bad for beating cattle and roaring all right. Your not the first lad to say the stick should be taken from him either.

A heard other people say it too. No need with the set up they have.
God a pint of blood, if he was a Guinness man he would have more iron in him than a scrap yard! 😱

Count Mondego

Toplink wrote: »

Same fella used to allegedly drink a pint of blood above in Duffys factory every Monday morning for the cure, back in the day

I heard that story too. I'd well believe it. Does his name sound like moron? Pun intended.

visatorro

used to bring all the calves and whatever weanlings, mostly fr down to local mart. I think the dealers have the place ruined. bringing in lots whenever they like. telling buyers not to buy stock as they have cattle coming in. my calves were moved to a pen outside before, had to bring one of them home. your day is wasted aswell. just advertised on donedeal. now I have two regular buyers. who both got sickened in the mart before aswell and prefer buying straight off farm. if I have to go with stock again I will but il try avoid it if I can.

Toplink

Count Mondego wrote: »

I heard that story too. I'd well believe it. Does his name sound like moron? Pun intended.

Thats him.

Who is that heavy set bearded dealer there at the Thursday night weanling sales. He'll get an awful flaking some night, some of his behavior is despicable at times.

Regarding dealers though... if you know your business and stick to your plan I don't see how you can let the dealers 'break you'. Every man should enter bidding with a max price in his head. Once you hit that price walk away. Better go home with an empty trailer than being a busy fool.

Limestone Cowboy

Toplink wrote: »

Thats him.

Who is that heavy set bearded dealer there at the Thursday night weanling sales. He'll get an awful flaking some night, some of his behavior is despicable at times.

Regarding dealers though... if you know your business and stick to your plan I don't see how you can let the dealers 'break you'. Every man should enter bidding with a max price in his head. Once you hit that price walk away. Better go home with an empty trailer than being a busy fool.

Coleman.