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The myth of the comptetent high paid executive
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04-04-2011 11:21am#1
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PeakOutput wrote: »well the fact the most profitable companies in the world have the highest paid ceos is evidence enough for me, were is your evidence to the contrary?
Strawman argument and ridiculously specious reasoning. There is no reason to believe that the profitability of a company is the result of a CEO's remuneration package, or that the profitability of a company is a measure of how well it is being run. The fact that it is evidence enough for you speaks volumes about your ability to reason. I'll reduce the cost of running your BMW by putting low-grade petrol into it and no oil. Had you cited increased market share rather than profitability you may have had a leg to stand on. You have been given plenty of evidence, to refute your ridiculous theory, you have simply chosen to ignore it. Irish Bankers and Banking Executives in general in the Western Hemisphere have been amongst the highest paid executives in the world, they produced massive short-term profits and received huge bonuses. They have destroyed in the space of twenty years, thriving solid companies that it took 200 years to build.PeakOutput wrote: »iirc the rig that had the problem that caused the bp oil spill was run by a subcontractor not bp itself. I am not saying they arent to blame I am just saying its not black and white.
Is it not the CEO's job to ensure that he is employing high quality staff and getting value for money from his subcontractor in relation to what he is paying that subcontractor? Oh no, I forgot, the fact that BP were paying top dollar meant that they were automatically getting the best rig operators. That is your reasoning isn't it? And the fact that the CEO of the subcontractor produced massive profits by providing substandard equipment and service proves how good a CEO he is, despite the fact that he has ruined the Company's name and destroyed their chances of securing these contracts into the future. Right, gotcha now.
No idea who they are neither do I care really you are misunderstanding the point of my posts, which I will explain in just a second
They are the CEO and Chairwoman of Anglo Irish Bank and Permanent TSB respectively, although given the country's current situation, you could hardly be expected to know this. Your posts have no points, just opinions; I would do well to either understand or misunderstand them. I look forward to your explanations I couldn't find any in this post.
Not at all I think steve jobs is an absolute genius at what he does and deserves all the credit for saving apples ass as well as creating a few other very very successfull companies that most people have heard of but most don't know he was involved in.
By this logic, does it not automatically follow that the Executives (mis)running the company in his absence were both incompetent and overpaid, and provide yet more evidence that there is no direct correlation between what you pay someone and their ability to do the job they are being paid for?
please point out any strawman arguments I have made. you can throw accusations around all you want but try to back them up at least please, what have I said that is not directly related to the issue being discussed?
You challenged WhiteOnion to come up with ten large companies that pay their CEOs €1. He never said that CEOs should be badly paid, he made the point that paying massive (self-awarded) salaries was no guarantee of competence in Senior Executives.
and that has what exactly to do with anything? do you think they didnt spend any money in the process? Do you think, if they were starting from scratch in todays world, following todays rules they would get to the same position?
Longevity and sustained prudent growth are the hallmarks of a well run company.This is achieved by re-investing in the core constituencies of your company, not trying to wring every last cent out of it.
Clearly some have missed the point of my posts, personally I believe that if you want the best you have to pay for the best. that dosnt mean that the highest paid ceo is the best ceo it just means that a high salary is a necessary part of the package you need to offer if you want to attract the top guys for no other reason then if your not offering it someone else will and you wont get your man / woman.
I'm not sure if this is an oxymoron or a paradox, but I'm pretty sure it's one or the other. Your personal beliefs are not germane to the argument anyway. Provide some logic, reasoning or evidence to support your contradictory theories.
however, my point in this thread is that when it boils down to it I have no idea weather these people are worth the money or not BUT neither does the op and using a few examples of failed companies that have required government bailouts isn't good enough.
It's better than anything you've provided.
Goldman Sachs for example required a large bailout and came under a lot of scrutiny for still paying their execs so much during that time but the fact that they were one of the first companies to pay their government back for the bailout got little to no press.
If you believe in the principles of capitalism or free enterprise then Goldman Sachs should have been put into liquidation rendering the stock worthless. Further proof if any were needed, that their executives' personal greed and remuneration structure rendered the company worthless. Berkshire Hathaway did not require a bailout. Also, Goldman Sachs were given hundreds of billions of dollars at 1% by the U.S. government which they then loaned back to the government at 3.5%.
A five year old child could make hundreds of millions of dollars playing by these rules. It doesn't require any financial acumen. It is not a measure of competence, it is a measure of contacts and organised white collar crime.
sorry I havn't been around to immediately answer your ridicolous claims I was at the gym and finishing a thesis. You have not presented a shred of evidence.
I don't think this is aimed at me but I hope I have provided you with both cogent arguments and evidence. Btw, I don't know how to say this without sounding snotty, but I would advise you, just on a personal level to get somebody to proof-read your thesis. I'm sure it has no literary basis, but you seem barely literate and spellcheck will not pick up a lot of your mistakes. It will look unprofessional even if it is a financial thesis.
then,than; your,you're; whether,weather; accept,except; affect,effect; etc. If you don't cut these out your thesis will look ridicolous.
:)
I am still waiting for your list of successful companies with low paid ceos, even an attempt at googling would find you a list of ten companies which pay their ceos $1 but the fact that you havn't even done that shows me that your only interested in spouting out an opinion that has no grounding in fact. I could make a better anti-highpay argument in ten minutes then you have all day.
^^^ I dealt with this last point earlier.
AMC0 -
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