LoTR and A song of fire and ice?

pljudge321

raah! wrote: »

Secondly, I can't remember anything which implied that Robert's brother and the knight of flowers are gay lovers in the book. Though it's possible that it was implied, and that the HBO series simply opted for a more vulgar disposition.

There were alot of additional gratuitous sex scenes which I think they may lay off of now that they have people watching the series for the plot.

The whole Loras and Renly thing is a bit more subtle in the books but it is definately there. There is a good fan article on it here http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/mlarchives/faq/lorasrenly.html.

Clash of Kings probably has the most sex scenes out of all the books, how much viewer appetitie there is for seeing Tyrion continually getting it on remains to be seen.

raah!

Hahahaha, I should have known! "Rainbow Guard". I must have given Martin a bit too much credit.

On a side note, I was reading over 'A Game Of Thrones' and a found a terrible sentence. One which will suffice to show that there is a significant difference in tone between Lotr and GOT. It was a post sex daenery's scene and as she was thinking about something she looks up and "his penis glistened wetly". This is the sort of thing which can only come from the mind of a seedy nerd, rather than the sort of academic mind that we could describe as belonging to Tolkien.

I'm not bashing Martin though. He's great. But that is definitely a distinction worth considering.

Finnbar01

The first, second and third books of ASOFAI were fantastic reads. Unfortunately, the fourth and fifth books are major let downs.

pljudge321

Finnbar01 wrote: »

The first, second and third books of ASOFAI were fantastic reads. Unfortunately, the fourth and fifth books are major let downs.

They both felt like it was him just wrestling with the characters' timelines and locations, trying to get them into place so that he can continue the story. Hopefully he has done that now and can get on with it.

Kinski

raah! wrote: »

This is the sort of thing which can only come from the mind of a seedy nerd, rather than the sort of academic mind that we could describe as belonging to Tolkien.

Does Tolkien ever depict sex?

raah!

Not that I can remember.He may have somewhere, though he certainly wouldn't have any penises glistening wetly anyway, or the kind of gratuitous sex scenes you find in alot of modern fantasy literature.

Kinski

Aww, no hobbit-humping, that's a shame :P.
Actually that was pretty much what I expected, though I knew that incest was central to one story in The Silmarillion, so I wondered if there was any in that.

Coriolanus

The thing is Tolkiens style is a product of his era. Read some other books from the time, even some other fantasy books and they're all pretty similar in longevity and detail. His just happens to be the best known and most expansive of the lot. Anyone with a taste for Tolkien could do worse than read some Lord Dunsany.
Likewise, Martins work is as much an indication of the times as it is of his skill. If he was alive in Tolkiens time there would be less glistening penises and more breadbaking poetic tangents, and dare I say it, if Tolkien was writing today we may have been treated to a passage on Galadriels perfect nipples. :pac:

raah!

The choice between the old and new style remains though. And if you're an old curmudgeon like myself and don't appreciate being sent on a quest in search of toilet paper by perfect nipples then you'll prefer Tolkien over Martin.

I'll get my coat.

DMBandit

trellheim wrote: »

Name of the Wind is one book when I'd finished was truly awesome. (I've just seen that Book 2 is out a couple of weeks ). goes along familiar rails but oh hell does it do it well.

Or "The Blade Itself" . If you like characters who really are "hard". Serious torture and serious violence. Sand Den Glokta is a wonderful creation, and the "Bloody-Nine" should not be met in a dark alley.

Or the Painted Man stuff , all good readalongs.

I have to second (third?) The Name of the Wind by Patrick Rothfuss. It is brilliant, amazing storytelling, everybody read it

fearbainne

The split between the north and south in a feast for crows and dance with dragons is really annoyin.. i dont like the characters in a feast for crows so its tough to get through..

I loved the first three books though!! but this really annoyed me!

And what the feck is his problem with the Starks? I think he likes killing off characters people like!!!

Back on topic.. I'd recommend the Name of the Wind, its unreal! and although i was disappointed in the most recent two books of SoI&F there still a must read!!

Fingers crossed it doesnt take him another six years to write the Winds of Winter!!

Denerick

Yeah Loras and Renly definately had a gay thing. I was dubious after the first book but Jaime Lannister makes a comment to Loras in the third book (Or was it Tyrion?) about jaime putting his sword in places only Renly had found... or something like that... Definately a subtle gay relationship there. Perhaps its a pity that Martin didn't expand on it. Mayhaps its his audience base? American conservatives? (I can't imagine they'd read it anyway, but whatever?) But for whatever reason he had, he didn't make it absolutely explicit. It appears that the relationship was known by, at the very least, Jaime and Tyrion Lannister and Lord Varys. Though I could be wrong. I'm only starting the fourth book now.

pljudge321

Denerick wrote: »

Yeah Loras and Renly definately had a gay thing. I was dubious after the first book but Jaime Lannister makes a comment to Loras in the third book (Or was it Tyrion?) about jaime putting his sword in places only Renly had found... or something like that... Definately a subtle gay relationship there. Perhaps its a pity that Martin didn't expand on it. Mayhaps its his audience base? American conservatives? (I can't imagine they'd read it anyway, but whatever?) But for whatever reason he had, he didn't make it absolutely explicit. It appears that the relationship was known by, at the very least, Jaime and Tyrion Lannister and Lord Varys. Though I could be wrong. I'm only starting the fourth book now.

“Now sheathe your bloody sword, or I’ll take it from you and shove it up some place even Renly never found.”

“...I got Margaery. You’ll be pleased to know she came to me a maid.”
“In your bed she’s like to die that way.”

“Loras is valiant and handsome and we all love him dearly...but your Imp will make a better husband.”

“And it relieved him {Mace} of the difficult task of trying to find lands and a bride for a third son, never easy, and doubly difficult in Ser Loras’s case.”


Seems pretty clear cut to me.


Quotes robbed from here http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/mlarchives/faq/lorasrenly.html

Denerick

Yeah but the quote we're missing is: 'And with that Renly swooped up his lover, Loras, and engaged in homosexual activity'. Until we read that... There will be doubts...

raah!

pljudge321 wrote: »

Seems pretty clear cut to me.
http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/mlarchives/faq/lorasrenly.html

In fairness it would be very easy to misconstrue those as having another meaning at the time of their reading, as that site points out. It does seem clear now though