Possible problem with new Rottie?

PaulWard80

Hello

I am looking for some help and advice i bought my new dog Rex,he is a rottweiler i bought him from a guy on the donedeal site. I was told he is bred by one of irelands top breeders and payed 850e for him anyway i was happy with him when i seen him,Anyway brought him to my local vet who told me he has a problem with his mouth.. The word she used is "undershot" i was told this is where the bottom jaw does not meet the top one in the proper way and also that the white on his chest would not go away as the breeder told the guy i bought him from it would.. i have not seen them with white is this another problem?

Does anyone have any experience with these dogs? Or have any of the same problems.. I am worried now that there may be some inbreeding or something and may run more problems???

Here is a couple of pics of him for you to see
Any help welcome
Paul.







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username123

Youve been scammed. Buying a dog off donedeal is asking for trouble, its puppy farm heaven. If you want a particular breed then you should have contacted the IKC and gotten the contact details for registered, reputable breeders. To pay 850 euro for a dog off donedeal is madness, they saw you coming.

The vet has already pointed out a couple of issues to you, dont be surprised if there are more. Its quite possible the dog is not purebred at all. You were told the dog was bred by one of Irelands top beeders? Did you get the breeders name? Did you do any research on the breeders credentials? Did you contact the breeder yourself to discuss the dogs lineage? Did you get any paperwork on the dog? Im guessing not given the pics you have posted and the story you have told.

I agree with the above poster also - why didnt you go to a rescue where you could have told them you were looking for a Rottie - many of them are surrendered to rescues.

TooManyDogs

Rotties can have white on their chest but is very undesirable in the breed ring. It does sound like you've been scammed

star-pants

Have you gotten any paperwork with the dog?
Did you see the house the dog was in before you bought him?

It's great to say you should have done x, y and z, but what's done is done and you need help with now.
I would seriously contact the breeder you bought it off and say about the dog's condition. I would also (if you got paper work) contact the IKC and tell them about this.
A proper breeder would not have sold a dog that had a medical problem (or at least not without forewarning the buyer).
As mentioned, there could be more issues with the dog. If you have your heart set on keeping the dog then I hope you have insurance if the dog needs medical attention.

Any more information you can give might help us help you more. Like the questions asked about age/papers/etc. I assume neither the ad nor the 'breeder' told you the dog had any problems?

PaulWard80

portgirl123 wrote: »

€850 for a rottie? when there are loads of them in the pounds and rescues looking for homes. how old is he? did he come with papers?

he's 9 months old. I did not pay 850e but the guy i bought him from payed that for him as a pup.. I just have a copy of his breeding???

andreac

Sorry to infrom you but if the dog is under shot and has that much white hair on him then its obviuosly not well bred.
Did you not research the breed before buying this dog because if you did you would have known that any white on a rottie is not desired and is not breed stanard.

If the dog is under shot too this is a major fault as well so under no circumstances should you breed this dog with all the faults he has so get him neutered asap!!

Rotties that have a few white hairs as pups can grow out but this dog has a white blaze, not a few hairs and its never going to grow out.
Did you not question the white hairs when you saw them

I absolutely despise done deal and the sooner people realise that this site is full of puppy farmers and dodgy breeders the better. I just cant understand how people are being conned and being robbed of their money. This is why its an absolute must that people do their homework before buying a pedigree dog.

star-pants

PaulWard80 wrote: »

he's 9 months old. I did not pay 850e but the guy i bought him from payed that for him as a pup.. I just have a copy of his breeding???

So you bought him off someone who bought him from a 'breeder' ?

Were you given a certificate of his breed? is it a photocopy or is it a form for you to fill in?

andreac

PaulWard80 wrote: »

he's 9 months old. I did not pay 850e but the guy i bought him from payed that for him as a pup.. I just have a copy of his breeding???

Can you tell me his breeding please? I am involved with the Rottweiler CLub of ireland and would be very interested to know the breeding of this dog please.

andreac

PaulWard80 wrote: »

he's 9 months old. I did not pay 850e but the guy i bought him from payed that for him as a pup.. I just have a copy of his breeding???

Why was this fella selling him if he bought him for 850?

PaulWard80

star-pants wrote: »

Have you gotten any paperwork with the dog?
Did you see the house the dog was in before you bought him?

It's great to say you should have done x, y and z, but what's done is done and you need help with now.
I would seriously contact the breeder you bought it off and say about the dog's condition. I would also (if you got paper work) contact the IKC and tell them about this.
A proper breeder would not have sold a dog that had a medical problem (or at least not without forewarning the buyer).
As mentioned, there could be more issues with the dog. If you have your heart set on keeping the dog then I hope you have insurance if the dog needs medical attention.

Any more information you can give might help us help you more. Like the questions asked about age/papers/etc. I assume neither the ad nor the 'breeder' told you the dog had any problems?

I got a certificate of his breeding but that is all.. The guy i bought him from said he was promised that the papers would be sent but they never sent..

No all the guy i bought him from said he was told by the breeder that white will go when he gets older? Does this not happen?

Thanks.. Paul

PaulWard80

andreac wrote: »

Can you tell me his breeding please? I am involved with the Rottweiler CLub of ireland and would be very interested to know the breeding of this dog please.

I can post the breeding certificate i was given with him would you recognise the breeding?

Thanks for the reply.. Paul

PaulWard80

andreac wrote: »

Why was this fella selling him if he bought him for 850?

He was moving to england or so he said for work

star-pants

andreac wrote: »

Why was this fella selling him if he bought him for 850?

I can only assume that the guy who bought him first, was either duped and not told about the health issues and felt he wanted to make some money back by selling it on, which is just horrible anyway. Or he made up this story to get rid of the dog.
The guy had to be aware of the dogs jaw issue by now, so I'd be hard pushed to fully believe his 'moving country' story.

PaulWard80 wrote: »

I got a certificate of his breeding but that is all.. The guy i bought him from said he was promised that the papers would be sent but they never sent..

No all the guy i bought him from said he was told by the breeder that white will go when he gets older? Does this not happen?

Thanks.. Paul

Afaik that white won't go, it's part of his markings. Some breeds of pups change colour somewhat as they get older but usually markings like that remain.

Is the dog microchipped by the way?

andreac

PaulWard80 wrote: »

I can post the breeding certificate i was given with him would you recognise the breeding?

Thanks for the reply.. Paul

Just post the sire and dams name, ill know the breeding. You can pm me the breeders name please.
No that white will not go, if anything it will get worse.
The story im sure was just lies about him moving, i hear it all the time. I doubt he was moving anywhere...

So hes not even IKC registered? Why did you go ahead and purchase this dog if you dont mind me asking?

billyhead

Just a little off topic but if a dog seller registered papers with the IKC does that mean its above board. I noticed on done deal that most of the dogs for sale are advertised with these papers mentioned

andreac

billyhead wrote: »

Just a little off topic but if a dog seller registered papers with the IKC does that mean its above board. I noticed on done deal that most of the dogs for sale are advertised with these papers mentioned

Nope, anyone can register their dogs with the IKC once the parents have been registered. Doesnt guarantee anything.

Should add that only the breeder can register the dog with the IKC, once he knows that both parents are IKC reg.

star-pants

billyhead wrote: »

Just a little off topic but if a dog seller registered papers with the IKC does that mean its above board. I noticed on done deal that most of the dogs for sale are advertised with these papers mentioned

Not always above board.
(edit - from what little I know, could be wrong):
Some breeders don't register every litter, therefore they will have more litters than they're supposed to have. If it's a popular breed, they can probably still get them sold without papers (i.e. supply and demand).
They may advertise that the parents are IKC registered, or that they're from pure blood lines, which they may be, but the pups themselves may not be registered.
Some will be legitimately registered puppies, but again if the breeders haven't registered all the litters, they could still be coming from a bad breeder.
There are requirements, regarding the age of the mother, tests done, how many litters, how much time between litters etc.

It can be very hard to pick out what's legit and what's not if you don't know what you're doing, so it's best to fully research and contact breeders clubs/IKC and even then still check out who you're buying it from, seeing the home/where the puppies live, the papers, the parents, etc.

lrushe

andreac wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Do you have a bad opinion of this breeder?

ISDW

He is gorgeous:D

Whilst Andreac is right, the white and the undershot jaw are faults, if you're not planning on showing or breeding your dog, then they don't really matter, as long as he can eat okay with his jaws not being aligned properly, can he?

If all you wanted was a pet, then it looks as though you have got a great one, just enjoy him.:)

PaulWard80

lrushe wrote: »

I know this breeding and the breeder, it's one of the better known kennels in Ireland. I have a half sister to your dog (different breeder), same sire. I can PM you his name, prehaps he's not aware where one of his pups have ended up.

They are some of the better known breeders? The guy i bought the dog from said he tried to contact them to get the papers for rex but to no avail..

Please do pm on there contact details.

Thanks paul

lrushe

PaulWard80 wrote: »

They are some of the better known breeders? The guy i bought the dog from said he tried to contact them to get the papers for rex but to no avail..

Please do pm on there contact details.

Thanks paul

PM sent!

Tranceypoo

OP, just out of interest, what are you planning to do with the dog now that you are aware of his 'problems', surely if you just wanted him as a pet, his colouring is irrelevant and, as another poster said, as long as he can eat properly with his undershot jaw, that's irrelevant too and he will still make a good pet? To my mind he just looks like a lovely handsome dog.

Knine

ISDW wrote: »

He is gorgeous:D

Whilst Andreac is right, the white and the undershot jaw are faults, if you're not planning on showing or breeding your dog, then they don't really matter, as long as he can eat okay with his jaws not being aligned properly, can he?

If all you wanted was a pet, then it looks as though you have got a great one, just enjoy him.:)

Excellent advice above. Even when a reputable breeder has a litter there will often be pups in it that are not show quality or are do not have the correct markings. Under or over shot jaws are not that uncommon but it disqualifies a dog from being shown. This does not mean the dog won't make an excellent pet.
Ive seen some lovely puppies that have been run on for the show ring and then their bite does not develop correctly and they end up being sold as pets. Even from top winning parents not every pup in a litter is going to be show quality.

OP enjoy your new pet!

andreac

I dont have a problem with a dog if it turns out with in correct markings, mouth problems etc, but the breeder lied to this person and told them the white would disappear which in no way was it ever going to disappear and also they are still waiting for the papers too, good breeder?? I think not:mad:

Knine

andreac wrote: »

I dont have a problem with a dog if it turns out with in correct markings, mouth problems etc, but the breeder lied to this person and told them the white would disappear which in no way was it ever going to disappear and also they are still waiting for the papers too, good breeder?? I think not:mad:

Have to agree with you there. I wonder did the breeder realise the dog was undershot and deliberately didnt give the papers but took the money all the same?

Edited to add that the breeder would have known that patch of white was not going to disappear. It also would looked fairly big on an 8 week old puppy.

andreac

Knine wrote: »

Have to agree with you there. I wonder did the breeder realise the dog was undershot and deliberately didnt give the papers but took the money all the same?

Edited to add that the breeder would have known that patch of white was not going to disappear. It also would looked fairly big on an 8 week old puppy.

Exactly. Yes this breeder would have known the dog was undershot and had white on it, he was aware of the white as he told the new owner it would grow out...:rolleyes:

Knine

Also for the price paid originally the buyer would have expected a show quality pup. If the puppy was 8 weeks old the mouth could have been correct then but more often then not I would have had concerns by then and be keeping a close eye on it.

PaulWard80

Thanks for all the help so far.

This pup was sold as a show quality/specimen dog with an 850e price tag, i understand that you can not predict nature but telling lies is not acceptable in my opinion.. As you all seem to agree the mouth and white chest are not going to improve?

The dog is ok health wise,I am just concerned that more issue's are possible because he has these as a young dog.. Otherwise he makes a great pet.

ISDW

andreac wrote: »

I dont have a problem with a dog if it turns out with in correct markings, mouth problems etc, but the breeder lied to this person and told them the white would disappear which in no way was it ever going to disappear and also they are still waiting for the papers too, good breeder?? I think not:mad:

Well, do we know thats what happened though? The OP was told this by someone who has sold the dog on whilst its still only a puppy. We all know that people don't always tell the truth while selling things. The OP didn't buy this dog as an 8 week old puppy from the breeder, he/she has bought the dog recently. For all we know, the breeder may have sold the dog and explained the faults to the purchaser, but now they needed to sell an older dog, and so maybe it is them that has lied? We just don't know.

Also, what other paperwork is there? The certificate of his breeding, is that not the IKC certificate? So what else would the breeder be sending on? I also wonder how bad the undershot jaw is, if the OP couldn't see it, and it took a vet to point it out? Two sides to every story.

ISDW

andreac wrote: »

Trust me, i know all about this and its happened before with this breeder.

OK, I'll shut up being reasonable now and go back into my box:P:D

andreac

ISDW wrote: »

OK, I'll shut up being reasonable now and go back into my box:P:D

Yeah get back in there!!!:P

andreac

PaulWard80 wrote: »

Thanks for all the help so far.

This pup was sold as a show quality/specimen dog with an 850e price tag, i understand that you can not predict nature but telling lies is not acceptable in my opinion.. As you all seem to agree the mouth and white chest are not going to improve?The dog is ok health wise,I am just concerned that more issue's are possible because he has these as a young dog.. Otherwise he makes a great pet.

No, will not improve at all.

kylith

The undershot mouth and the white blaze will not disappear. The blaze is just a 'colour fault' and means nothing to health (imo it's ridiculous that it means anything in the show ring). The problem with the mouth probably isn't serious. One of my dogs has a very noticable underbite and the only 'problems' are that it takes her a while to eat chews because her jaws aren't as efficient, and that she makes a clicking sound when she pants.

Please don't let these tiny defects put you off what may be a fantastic dog.

It sounds very much like you were scammed. Buying off of Done Deal is a very risky business, and you can't even be sure that the papers you have are in any way connected to your dog. I'd also take the dog to the vet to make sure that you haven't been sold a time bomb of illnesses.

In future you're better off going to a reputable rescue. The dogs there will be health and temperment tested so that you'll know exactly what you're getting.

Hellrazer

Ive removed all references to the breed line in this thread as I feel it could identify an individual breeder who may or may not have a problem with their identity being openly available.

As well as that there are some comments that could be potentially libelous on this thread.

By all means discuss the dogs problems but please do so without referring to the breeder and their reputation.

breaker2011

I can't see why people can't be named and shamed, that breeder knew well that dog was not show worthy, If he was any type of breeder he would know that. I'm also in the process of buying a Rottie and its taking time. I also got stung by a so called "Excellent Breeder" who took a €250 deposit and no pup.
First excuse was the mother didn't take to them (not a road I want to go down), the second excuse was all the pups died and he was re-breeding her again (not even a break for the bitch)... I wanted out and I haven't been able contact him in Navan since. I need a show dog not something from a back yard sold on donedeal. Breeders are getting away with things way to easy to turn over a buck or two.
I would definately buy a dog from ISPCA or a dog shelter for a pet but I just want a show dog for now but maybe the next one. I also fully support Dog Shelters and would always ask people to get their dogs there,

andreac

Breaker2011, send me a pm and i can give you contact details to the Rottweiler Club of Ireland as i am on the committee:)

breaker2011

Thanks Andrea, just sent that. Hope you got it.

andreac

breaker2011 wrote: »

I can't see why people can't be named and shamed, that breeder knew well that dog was not show worthy, If he was any type of breeder he would know that. I'm also in the process of buying a Rottie and its taking time. I also got stung by a so called "Excellent Breeder" who took a €250 deposit and no pup.
First excuse was the mother didn't take to them (not a road I want to go down), the second excuse was all the pups died and he was re-breeding her again (not even a break for the bitch)... I wanted out and I haven't been able contact him in Navan since. I need a show dog not something from a back yard sold on donedeal. Breeders are getting away with things way to easy to turn over a buck or two.
I would definately buy a dog from ISPCA or a dog shelter for a pet but I just want a show dog for now but maybe the next one. I also fully support Dog Shelters and would always ask people to get their dogs there,

Doesnt surprise me as this is the same breeder the OP is talking about too.:mad:

breaker2011

They really need strick rules for breeding, like German not every joe soap can breed dogs. No wonder there are so many homeless dogs. Its sad

Whispered

When you mention "the breeder" do you usually mean the owner of the dog or the bitch? Or does the breeder refer to both?

andreac

Whispered wrote: »

When you mention "the breeder" do you usually mean the owner of the dog or the bitch? Or does the breeder refer to both?

Its usually the owner of the bitch as they are breeding the litter.

Hellrazer

breaker2011 wrote: »

I can't see why people can't be named and shamed,

Because its against boards rules and not just this forums rules.

PaulWard80

breaker2011 wrote: »

I can't see why people can't be named and shamed, that breeder knew well that dog was not show worthy, If he was any type of breeder he would know that. I'm also in the process of buying a Rottie and its taking time. I also got stung by a so called "Excellent Breeder" who took a €250 deposit and no pup.
First excuse was the mother didn't take to them (not a road I want to go down), the second excuse was all the pups died and he was re-breeding her again (not even a break for the bitch)... I wanted out and I haven't been able contact him in Navan since. I need a show dog not something from a back yard sold on donedeal. Breeders are getting away with things way to easy to turn over a buck or two.
I would definately buy a dog from ISPCA or a dog shelter for a pet but I just want a show dog for now but maybe the next one. I also fully support Dog Shelters and would always ask people to get their dogs there,

This is shocking. Cant understand how people get away with actions like this. Disgrace i agree the breeder should be named and shamed if for no other reason than to prevent it happening again

PaulWard80

andreac wrote: »

Doesnt surprise me as this is the same breeder the OP is talking about too.:mad:

Unbelievable:mad: thanks andreac for all the information. Hopefully something can be done to prevent this from happening again

breaker2011

Well if you have a great stud and he is being used by a bad bitch then its bringing down the name of the stud and this does happen. If I had a dog for stud it would only be allowed with good bitches to keep a good blood line.
I can understand why you shouldn't name and shame but I see companies getting slated and that can't be fair either. If people are getting done out of money why not help others not make the same mistake. This person has done this to 3 people I know of and I bet if I rang him from another number he'd try sell me another make believe pup...

lrushe

The best thing anyone can do if they are unhappy with a breeder is report them to the IKC, the more complaints they get about a particular breeder, the more of an annoyance the breeder becomes to them and the more likely they are to act.
It really is a buyer beware situation though as dog breeding is not tightly regulated, knowledge is power and if anything seem amiss walk away, don't be swayed by a sob story or a cute puppy. The only way to stop bad breeders is to hit them where it hurts, in the pocket.

dillon47

andreac wrote: »

Doesnt surprise me as this is the same breeder the OP is talking about too.:mad:

I saw this thread when it was first posted and knowing the sire and dam ..i too know this breeder but as the moderator says I will not mention names.First of all Breaker2011 ...just to correct you .. Its Cavan and not Navan this breeder is from. Although I am not involved in this breed I am involved in another breed for the past 30 years. This breeders reputation does not appear to have improved through the years. I have heard time after time of people being conned out of their deposits and I also know that the said breeder does not register all his pups.(Only the people that keep hassling him for paperwork) His idea is to keep his number of litters at a minimum so as to appear to be a 'reputable' breeder. As he is a 'Dub' like myself he was formerly known as 'Billy Liar' so this will give you an idea of his character.

Whispered

If someone is taking deposits then disappearing - isn't that illegal?

If it's done regularly, surely something can be done?

lrushe

Whispered wrote: »

If someone is taking deposits then disappearing - isn't that illegal?

If it's done regularly, surely something can be done?

People who have been scammed don't seem to be doing anything about it or don't know where to go to seek help. I personally know of one person who bought from this place and is still waiting on papers, her dog is 9 months old and despite me pushing her she seems to be ok with just letting things drag on. If the majority of people who are being scammed have this attitude then it might go some way to explaining why this breeder is getting away with it.

breaker2011

I have called the Rottweiler Club of Ireland and they assured me his membership was taken off him as they had so many complaints. I also wrote a letter to the Irish Kennel Club and I'm waiting on a reply from them and I plan to apply to the samll claims court to get my deposit back. Your friend should give the dog back or do the same as me. He is just going to keep doing it unless we all do something to stop him.

dillon47

breaker2011 wrote: »

I have called the Rottweiler Club of Ireland and they assured me his membership was taken off him as they had so many complaints. I also wrote a letter to the Irish Kennel Club and I'm waiting on a reply from them and I plan to apply to the samll claims court to get my deposit back. Your friend should give the dog back or do the same as me. He is just going to keep doing it unless we all do something to stop him.

A big well done to you....it's just a pity it has taken so long to highlight what this breeder is like...but its good to see someone who is determined to see it through to the end....good luck and hope you get your money back