Ridiculous article in the Irish Times yesterday

craggles

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0402/1224293646626.html

"Football has lost its common touch, rugby has found it"

Johnny Watterson wrote:

SO THE Republic of Ireland team are feeling unloved by the fans. You wonder why?

Is it the cost of tickets that also caused the IRFU to falter recently?

Is it the lack of sparkle, the superstar wilderness that apart from O’Shea, Duff, Given and captain Keane the Irish team has become. Is it manager Giovanni Trapattoni’s tactics or his cultural distance from the terrace.

Can you ever see him appearing on the Late Late Show and winning the audience in the same way as the gruff and uncomplicated Jack Charlton did? His old-world ignorance. Remember. The Egyptian midfielder from Italia ’90. Remember? “The guy with the beard, the dark lad in midfield, the little dark lad who played centre midfield, the very coloured boy and the boy who played up front.”

Sure don’t we all forget a name? But did that draw him close to us, that and his chip-shop stops, his fly fishing and willingness to let the lads have a pint.

Trap’s distance aside, have there been too many players intimating that a run with Ireland is a lucrative step up the career ladder and not the high point of a life’s ambition.

Are the musings of Jermaine “I’d love to play for England but it’s just never happened” Pennant, Stephen “that interview was a complete stitch-up” Ireland and James “I don’t know where the stories came from . . . the press jumped on it” McCarthy a taste of Irish football’s incoherent future. And all without any public censure from the FAI.

Comparisons to rugby are unfair to both sports but the current reality, something incomprehensible 15 years ago, is that the one-time elite sport maybe more popular than football.

In rugby, players express themselves clearly on the national question. Even those “British” lads from Ballymena and around Ravenhill are unequivocal about what the Irish shirt means.

Stephen Ireland arrived in Dublin last weekend for a celebrity magazine bash while his country was playing in a European qualifying match. With some effort at placatory banter the Newcastle United player declared he may change his mind on making his talent available to Trap. You feel that will hold until he changes his mind again.

Soccer’s other competitor, the GAA, is largely made up of players who have certainty and knowledge of who they are; that their worth is something which belongs to the team and is not theirs alone; that they can become part of an entity that is infinitely more rewarding and important than what they are by themselves.

The price of international tickets maybe an issue but the current stay-away may be something more pervasive and indefinable.

Next week the FAI could but won’t make a public declaration and start the rehabilitation process.

They could, but won’t, tell Pennant and Ireland that the FAI are not interested in them now nor will be interested in them in the future because their attitude reeks of a certain type of vacuous Premiership privilege, agent interference, arrogance, stupidity and little sense of where they belong, or, what is valuable. Character traits that go with the territory they may be, but also damaging and worthless to a team seeking the love of unconvinced supporters.

With Trap we can do little but unlike England’s Italian coach, Fabio Capello, he has not yet told the world that he can explain his tactics to the team in 100 words.

Tonight 26,000 will watch Munster play Leinster at Thomond Park in the Magners League, the third rung of professional rugby after International and Heineken Cup.

Next weekend over 50,000 will watch Leinster in their Heineken Cup club quarter-final against England’s Leicester.

Football has lost its common touch.

Rugby has picked it up.

The FAI might be feeling the presence of absence.

This article has really gotten under my skin because the man clearly has no idea what he's talking about. If this article had a comments section it would be ripped to shreds.

I have two main gripes with the article.

We all know that the FAI are a complete shower of money grabbing cunts. We also know the attendances at Ireland games would be much better if ticket prices were fucking reasonable given the current climate.

I am offended that this man could declare rugby more popular than football in this country on the basis of attendances and especially on perceived differences in commitment by the players of both codes. Does this lad really think that the the ramblings of Ireland and Pennant (honestly, WTF) are representative of the psyche and determination of the entire Irish team? How can he consider O'Driscoll or O'Connell any more committed than Fahey or Kilbane?

Does he not also recognise that there could be another explanation for crap attendances at Ireland qualifiers because, let's face it, a large proportion of the football supporting demographic in Ireland has undoubtedly been hit bloody hard by the recession and most of us can't afford to be skinned repeatedly by the FAI. Bill brought a similar point up after the Macedonia game and almost got his nose bitten off for it by Giles and Dunphy.

Football hasn't lost its common touch. The FAI never had it. Rugby never had it either but they know their fanbase will always be capable of paying through the nose to see us play Scotland or Italy, or a Munster Leinster game.

TangyZizzle

I was under the impression that Rugby WAS better supported than the LoI. I definitely see a lot more EggChasing jerseys around my hometown than League Jerseys.
In saying that, it is a crap article.

craggles

If you're comparing support for Munster/ Leinster etc with support for the LoI then yeah it's a lot more popular, no disputing that.

There's far stronger support for external club football (premier league etc) and the Ireland team itself than there is for either club rugby or the League of Ireland. Football is definitely more popular in this country in that sense.

OhNoYouDidn't

Its a poor article alright.

The idea that Stephen Ireland or Jermaine Pennants comments matter a damn is ridiculous and to then try and extrapolate that footballers have no sense of identity? Nope, no dice.

The idea that rugby is more popular than football is plain wrong. There are three and a half professional sides, two of whom get decent crowds. Galway United crowds dwarf Connaught, so the point is moot.

craggles

This is precisely the kind of article that should have an open comments section on it as well...

parker kent

TangyZizzle wrote: »

I was under the impression that Rugby WAS better supported than the LoI. I definitely see a lot more EggChasing jerseys around my hometown than League Jerseys.
In saying that, it is a crap article.

Rugby jerseys aren't necessarily equal to people who regularly attend matches. I'd agree Munster and Leinster get big crowds, but they are mainly for a relatively small amount of games. Connacht aren't that well supported. Ulster aren't really relevant since it is being compared to the Republic of Ireland soccer team.

It is a crap, ill-thought article. There are so many holes in it and it really doesn't warrant or deserve much comment. Did he write the opposite article when more people were at the FAI Cup Final than the rugby game at the Aviva around the same time? The same way you cannot compare GAA games with soccer, you can't compare rugby with soccer. Different sports have different systems and different issues. Plus there are large overlaps between rigby, GAA and soccer fans. It will never be a like for like comparison.

The IRFU, FAI and GAA all have their positives and negatives.

Hoki

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Its a poor article alright.

The idea that Stephen Ireland or Jermaine Pennants comments matter a damn is ridiculous and to then try and extrapolate that footballers have no sense of identity? Nope, no dice.

The idea that rugby is more popular than football is plain wrong. There are three and a half professional sides, two of whom get decent crowds. Galway United crowds dwarf Connaught, so the point is moot.

They get pretty similar crowds , recently the rugby is pulling in more people bar last friday night when Utd played their "local" derby vs Sligo.

newballsplease

im pretty sure Trapatoni was on the Late Late show aswell.....

Dempsey

Comparisons to rugby are unfair to both sports but the current reality, something incomprehensible 15 years ago, is that the one-time elite sport maybe more popular than football.

You're easily offended tbh

OhNoYouDidn't

Dempsey wrote: »

You're easily offended tbh

But its a daft statement and fair game to critise.

By no criteria is rugby more popular than football, or the Gah.

Football playing numbers, punters through door and tv figures dwarf rugby. As does gaelic.

parker kent

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

But its a daft statement and fair game to critise.

By no criteria is rugby more popular than football, or the Gah.

Football playing numbers, punters through door and tv figures dwarf rugby. As does gaelic.

Now work with me here...it is G.A.A. Three little letters like what you typed. Not hard to get right and they won't needlessly annoy people either.

Dempsey

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

But its a daft statement and fair game to critise.

By no criteria is rugby more popular than football, or the Gah.

Football playing numbers, punters through door and tv figures dwarf rugby. As does gaelic.

He said maybe and he's clearly talking about the international teams. He has a point about more people turning up to see Ireland play rugby than football for a variety of reasons, to get 'offended' about that is laughable

tim_holsters

Rugby League has the common touch.

Pauleta

I agree with the article. I think the Ireland football team really have to qualify for a tournament soon before the decline in interest for the team becomes terminal. A disadvantage for the Ireland football team is that they rarely have big games, maybe only once or twice a year. Rugby has a format where every 6 nation game is huge and the autumn internationals are big as well because of the quality of opposition. The football team doesnt really have many stars or national heroes either. If you asked a random kid on the street who their favourite footballer is, they will say somebody like Ronaldo or Messi. Whilst ask the same kid for his favourite rugby player and he will most likely say O'Driscoll or a team mate. Back in the 90s if you asked children who their favourite football was, they would probably say an Irish player.

OhNoYouDidn't

Dempsey wrote: »

He said maybe and he's clearly talking about the international teams. He has a point about more people turning up to see Ireland play rugby than football for a variety of reasons, to get 'offended' about that is laughable

I don't think he clearly is. If he meant just the national sides, he would have said so.

I'm not offended in the least, but its fair enough to question this article, as its quite frankly off the wall stuff.

OhNoYouDidn't

parker kent wrote: »

Now work with me here...it is G.A.A. Three little letters like what you typed. Not hard to get right and they won't needlessly annoy people either.

If you are needlessly annoyed by me calling them the Gah, you are on the wrong forum.

I could have used bigots, bogballers, stickfighters, turnip munchers, referee abductors, broken glass spreaders, Klu Klux Gah, Gahliban etc. But I didn't.

Hoki

Ireland vs England in soccer on Rte 1
Ireland vs England in rugby on Rte 2

I wonder which would have the most viewers, surely i dont have to state this is completely hypothetical!

I wouldnt imagine there would be a whole lot in the difference but i personally would have the rugby on. Rugby is growing immensely here & because of the International teams success over the last decade its only going to get better .
The FAI have to get their act together to revive interest levels in football here.

Dempsey

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

I don't think he clearly is. If he meant just the national sides, he would have said so.

I'm not offended in the least, but its fair enough to question this article, as its quite frankly off the wall stuff.

I see no mention of club football, do you? If he was talking about football in general why didn't he mention attendances in general? Why is he only talking in the context of whats happening with the Aviva Stadium?

I was clearly referencing the opening post and the fact that he's offended by the notion that international rugby is more popular than international football in this country

OhNoYouDidn't

Hoki wrote: »

Ireland vs England in soccer on Rte 1
Ireland vs England in rugby on Rte 2

I wonder which would have the most viewers, surely i dont have to state this is completely hypothetical!

I wouldnt imagine there would be a whole lot in the difference but i personally would have the rugby on. Rugby is growing immensely here & because of the International teams success over the last decade its only going to get better .
The FAI have to get their act together to revive interest levels in football here.

There would be a great deal in the difference. The most watched sports events in Ireland historically are all football games.

As for the bold, do you mean the sport or the national sides? If Ireland are in with a chance of qualification, the bandwagon will be in full steam.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a rugby fan and delighted to see the national team mix it with the worlds best, and no-one would dispute its a more popular game than it was, but its daft to say rugby is as popular a sport in Ireland as football quite yet.

osullic

Pauleta wrote: »

I agree with the article. I think the Ireland football team really have to qualify for a tournament soon before the decline in interest for the team becomes terminal. A disadvantage for the Ireland football team is that they rarely have big games, maybe only once or twice a year. Rugby has a format where every 6 nation game is huge and the autumn internationals are big as well because of the quality of opposition. The football team doesnt really have many stars or national heroes either. If you asked a random kid on the street who their favourite footballer is, they will say somebody like Ronaldo or Messi. Whilst ask the same kid for his favourite rugby player and he will most likely say O'Driscoll or a team mate. Back in the 90s if you asked children who their favourite football was, they would probably say an Irish player.

Probably because Roy Keane and Paul McGrath played in this era,these two guys were quality (world class IMHO) and we just don't have stars like that now.Both these guys won footballer of the year in England,I don't see any of the current Irish crop doing that.

OhNoYouDidn't

Dempsey wrote: »

I see no mention of club football, do you? If he was talking about football in general why didn't he mention attendances in general? Why is he only talking in the context of whats happening with the Aviva Stadium?

I was clearly referencing the opening post and the fact that he's offended by the notion that international rugby is more popular than international football in this country

Ok. Lets accept your interpretation of the article. Its only 6 months ago that there was an open boycott of rugby tickets for the Aviva and their opening games had dire crowds.

Seems a bit churlish after just two sell outs, against France and England no less, that the autumn internationals are forgotten and the digs begin at the FAI.

GLaDOS

Irish international football is at a low ebb after the highs of '90, '94 and '02. Irish Rugby is on a big high at the moment, one of the top sides in the world and well marketed as such. People are hopping on the bandwagon, to a certain extent. Obviously not the only factor, but I do think it's relevant.

Dempsey

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Ok. Lets accept your interpretation of the article. Its only 6 months ago that there was an open boycott of rugby tickets for the Aviva and their opening games had dire crowds.

Seems a bit churlish after just two sell outs, against France and England no less, that the autumn internationals are forgotten and the digs begin at the FAI.

They still had more going than recent football internationals

parker kent

Dempsey wrote: »

They still had more going than recent football internationals

This sort of argument is what annoys me. You simply can't compare the two sports. They have different types of game (i.e a friendly in soccer is vastly different to an Autumn International, fewer high profile soccer games etc). It is apples and oranges. The Russia game is a better comparison to the 2 Six Nations games. And even then, it is not the same. Really the only fair comparison would be something like a playoff game and a Six Nations game.

Het-Field

The support base for rugby has metamorphosised since the 1990s. In the 1990s, when Ireland were bombing in the international scene, Lansdowne Road was packed, but it was packed with the same type of punters, mostly of the higher socio-economic groups. It was a day out, and no more. The fans were not nearly as fanatical as they are today, and seemed to enjoy the pre&post-match hospitality more then the taste of victory itself. Today, rugby fans are based in all areas and come from all socio-economic backgrounds. Next weekend, it is expected that over 50,000 Leinster fans will cram into Lansdowne Road for the European Cup Quarter Final. I feel that this change in terms of the support base has been the product of one thing ; identity.

Although I wouldnt advise the LOI to change in this manner, I think it is fair to say that the LOI lacks for identity. I know many Pat's fans who live in the vicinity of Tallaght Stadium, I knew a Bohemians fan who was based in Drumcondra. Given the volume of Dublin clubs in the LOI it is natural that loyalties will be widely based. Upon the advent of the professional era of Rugby the IRFU engaged in the sagacious process of coralling support into the provincial game, and allowing the same punters to pick and choose their support for their respective AIL Club. While the AIL doesnt promote a great level of identity (beyond erstwhile affiliations to establishments such as private schools and small localities), the provincial game does. While many Irish fans will support other provinces during the Magners League, and the European Cup, they will not be shy in nailing their colours firmly to the mast when their province is in the running for a competition. Fans feel a geographical and spiritual identity in relation to their province, and this is where the game of Rugby Union has really taken off. The evidence of this is the departure of the Leinster team from their 6,000 capacity Donnybrook home, and their residence in the 18,000 Capacity RDS Arena. Equally, Muster have increased the capacity of their stadium, turning it into a state of the art venue to accomodate increased support.

I would not agree that Soccer is in decline, or that it has been over-taken by rugby, however, I believe Rugby has managed to take leaps which would have been unbelievable in the 1990s, and I believe the club&provincial game enjoys a far greater sense of identity the soccer in Ireland.

Dempsey

parker kent wrote: »

This sort of argument is what annoys me. You simply can't compare the two sports. They have different types of game (i.e a friendly in soccer is vastly different to an Autumn International, fewer high profile soccer games etc). It is apples and oranges. The Russia game is a better comparison to the 2 Six Nations games. And even then, it is not the same. Really the only fair comparison would be something like a playoff game and a Six Nations game.

Vastly different? I wouldnt agree with that. You easily compare the attendances of the Argentina/Samoa matches to the recent Uruguay one.

You think a playoff game for a major competition in football is comparable to playing Italy in Rugby? No chance.

Paparazzo

The soccer team is definitely struggling for crowds, but in fairness, rugby were struggling badly with the november internationals. Wonder how different the article would have been if we had Italy, Scotland and Wales in this year instead of England and France. Rugby always has the advantage of the 6 nations, while soccer only really has one big game every 2 years, which is the top seeded team in their qualifying group. Rugby team also has the advantage of a world cup every 4 years that is easy to get into.

The Irish rugby team at the moment is pretty good,Leinster are probably favourites to win the equivalent of the champions league so obviously this draws numbers but rugbys success may not last,these things come in waves.

I would like to see what the crowds go like when the team arent consistently winning.
Similarly if the football team was full of really good players like the 1990's and winning big games then we would see a big increase in attendance imo.

Nalz

Paparazzo wrote: »

The soccer team is definitely struggling for crowds, but in fairness, rugby were struggling badly with the november internationals. Wonder how different the article would have been if we had Italy, Scotland and Wales in this year instead of England and France. Rugby always has the advantage of the 6 nations, while soccer only really has one big game every 2 years, which is the top seeded team in their qualifying group. Rugby team also has the advantage of a world cup every 4 years that is easy to get into.

one of the best points and the simplest also

rugby meh imo

IRISHSPORTSGUY

Rugby doesn't do anything for me, mainly because it's global appeal is nowhere near football's. I feel very proud when our football team qualifies for tournaments, wheras even when we won the grand slam it was just very 'meh' for me.

Each to their own though.

partyndbs

rugby is more supported domestically but the problem is all the bandwagoners have abandoned local rugby teams in the ail in favour of the leinster and munster bandwagon. loads of these people prob havent heard of some of these clubs yet are big rugby experts. it be a bit like if rovers and cork city joined the prem and got big attendances but our actual domestic league attendances were still like terrible.

Coillte_Bhoy

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Its a poor article alright.



The idea that rugby is more popular than football is plain wrong. There are three and a half professional sides, two of whom get decent crowds. Galway United crowds dwarf Connaught, so the point is moot.

Galway utd dwarfing connacht re; attendances is just plain wrong but thats standard for you. Also the professional rugby sides have far higher attendaces than the LoI.

craggles

Dempsey wrote: »

I was clearly referencing the opening post and the fact that he's offended by the notion that international rugby is more popular than international football in this country

I think annoyed is a better word and more at the article itself

Het-Field

Paparazzo wrote: »

The soccer team is definitely struggling for crowds, but in fairness, rugby were struggling badly with the november internationals.

That was purely attributable to a marketing ploy gone wrong. The IRFU's attempts to pack out the AVIVA on four occasions was ill-advised. It would ultimately have been more useful to play the Samoan game in Thomond Park, and the rest as stand-alone fixtures in the AVIVA. The IRFU have paid the price, and their ticketing policy for the RWC warm-ups articulated an air of "lessons learned" on the part of the union

Paparazzo wrote: »

Wonder how different the article would have been if we had Italy, Scotland and Wales in this year instead of England and France.

No different at all. It doesnt matter who the opposition are, Six Nations games in Dublin are always sold out or virtually sold out. The same applies to each country which participates in the 6 Nations. Tell me, how many times have you watched a Six Nations games where pockets of empty seats were visable ?

Paparazzo wrote: »

Rugby always has the advantage of the 6 nations, while soccer only really has one big game every 2 years, which is the top seeded team in their qualifying group. Rugby team also has the advantage of a world cup every 4 years that is easy to get into.

Why is the six nations any different to a Qualifying Tournament for a World/European Championship ? Each game is crucial in any given qualifying tournament, and unless the results dictate otherwise, each game should be looked upon as a must win. Thus, they are all "big games". It says more about the domestic fans if they only appear when Italy, France, Germany, Spain, England or Portugal come to town. As a fan of both codes, I dont miss games if I can help it.

parker kent

Dempsey wrote: »

Vastly different? I wouldnt agree with that. You easily compare the attendances of the Argentina/Samoa matches to the recent Uruguay one.

You think a playoff game for a major competition in football is comparable to playing Italy in Rugby? No chance.

They were not comparing the attendances of the Samao/Argentina games to the Uruguay game. Hence my point. They were talking about the games against France and England. I said a playoff game would be comparable or else the Russian game (or any qualifier against the top seed). I didn't say it was comparable with playing Italy in rugby. However that being said, I feel all 6 Nations games would be 40,000 +crowds and likely to be sell outs.

I'm between two mindsets here. I go to all Ireland matches where possible. Prior commitments meant I couldn't go to the Macedonia game (though I did make a bored girl sit through the whole thing in a hotel bar!). But I can see why the prices for the Autumn Internationals or the recent soccer matches are off-putting, especially for parents with 2 or 3 kids.

Dempsey

parker kent wrote: »

They were not comparing the attendances of the Samao/Argentina games to the Uruguay game. Hence my point. They were talking about the games against France and England. I said a playoff game would be comparable or else the Russian game (or any qualifier against the top seed). I didn't say it was comparable with playing Italy in rugby. However that being said, I feel all 6 Nations games would be 40,000 +crowds and likely to be sell outs.

I'm between two mindsets here. I go to all Ireland matches where possible. Prior commitments meant I couldn't go to the Macedonia game (though I did make a bored girl sit through the whole thing in a hotel bar!). But I can see why the prices for the Autumn Internationals or the recent soccer matches are off-putting, especially for parents with 2 or 3 kids.

Seems football fans need it to be more than just a qualifier match. Italy play in the 6 Nations Tournament and usually games against them are 'boring'. Its generally a physical game and you win through attrition, its not easy on the eye. Rugby fans know this but it doesnt put them off attending as much as the equivalent in football does.

chopperbyrne

Pauleta wrote: »

I agree with the article. I think the Ireland football team really have to qualify for a tournament soon before the decline in interest for the team becomes terminal. A disadvantage for the Ireland football team is that they rarely have big games, maybe only once or twice a year. Rugby has a format where every 6 nation game is huge and the autumn internationals are big as well because of the quality of opposition. The football team doesnt really have many stars or national heroes either. If you asked a random kid on the street who their favourite footballer is, they will say somebody like Ronaldo or Messi. Whilst ask the same kid for his favourite rugby player and he will most likely say O'Driscoll or a team mate. Back in the 90s if you asked children who their favourite football was, they would probably say an Irish player.

Quite handy that the rugby team doesn't need to qualify for any tournaments, playing against countries with far more resources than we have and then dealing with unfair double seeding.

CSF

If rugby is attracting this level of success in 20 years I'll start to take notice, for now I'm standing by my view of it as a trendy day out for those who wouldn't even begin to fathom the notion of attending 30-40 games a year. I still expect this short-term rush of popularity to fall by the wayside.

The_Kew_Tour

I played rugby at AIL standard up to last year (knee fooked at moment) but we would not even get more then 200 at game maybe 500 if we were playing big game but that be max.

Club rugby in this country is not heard of at least the LOI still has its hardcore support....

Cant compare the two sports in terms of success or that anyway as it has many differences.

OhNoYouDidn't

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Galway utd dwarfing connacht re; attendances is just plain wrong but thats standard for you. Also the professional rugby sides have far higher attendaces than the LoI.

They went head to head on Friday. Who had the bigger crowd?

parker kent

Dempsey wrote: »

Seems football fans need it to be more than just a qualifier match. Italy play in the 6 Nations Tournament and usually games against them are 'boring'. Its generally a physical game and you win through attrition, its not easy on the eye. Rugby fans know this but it doesnt put them off attending as much as the equivalent in football does.

I don't need the little lesson on rugby. There are a plethora of other reasons than those you have just given for lower attendances. Sure there may be some who think like that, but it is not the only issue. There are a large amount of Irish people who simply follow success and are not either rugby or football fans. Lower attendances at certain rugby matches would attest to that.

Your post also ignores the large amount of people who would consider themselves fans of both. The same way your post ignores that there will also be a large demographic of better of rugby fans than their soccer equivalents (I'm not saying all rugby fans are D4 Rugger buggers, but rugby does have a large following amongst the wealthy). There are plenty of other reasons for the variations in crowd attendance. So it is simplistic to reach your conclusions.

OhNoYouDidn't

Look, its very simple.

6 months ago the IRFU were in a panic over attendences. 2 full houses later and they are claiming they are the biggest sport in the land?

I'm not disputing that a: rugby has a core support and b: they are on the crest of a wave with their recent international and provincial success, but they are miles off football in terms of interest, playing levels and tv money.

LoI figures on RTE tend to beat Magners League.

Het-Field

CSF wrote: »

If rugby is attracting this level of success in 20 years I'll start to take notice, for now I'm standing by my view of it as a trendy day out for those who wouldn't even begin to fathom the notion of attending 30-40 games a year. I still expect this short-term rush of popularity to fall by the wayside.

Then I guess you will be taking notice in 20 years or so.

The development of the Club (provincial clubs) game in Ireland has run parallel to the dawn of the professional era. Commenced in the mid 1990s provincial teams began their successful outings in 1996. In 1997 Leinster began taking out top English teams. The only reason Irish international rugby failed to develop until February 2000 was the decision by previous managers to select Irish players who were based in the English premiership, on the basis that their professional experiences were better. In 1999 Ulster won a European Cup, but Gatland refused to pick players like James Topping and Simon Mason, and instead selected the likes of Matt Moysten (based in Wales) and Justin Bishop (England) Ultimately, it was a flukey decision on Gatland's part to pack a team to face Scotland with Irish based players. Once the national team, and the provincial clubs began acting in consort, Irish rugby stock has increased beyond belief.

Irish rugby will continue to grow in tandem with the professional era. The sense of identity developed by the provincial game has ensured the coralling of support, and rugby fans are becoming more fanatical every day. It wont simply switch off. The provincial spirit will prevail, and young rugby fans will continue to flock to watch their province in action, and as players develop, they will gain a great affinity to them. As things stand, the fans of Leinster Rugby are not only treated to watching a solid team, in Brian O Driscoll they are watching Ireland's greatest ever athlete.

flahavaj

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Look, its very simple.

6 months ago the IRFU were in a panic over attendences. 2 full houses later and they are claiming they are the biggest sport in the land?

I'm not disputing that a: rugby has a core support and b: they are on the crest of a wave with their recent international and provincial success, but they are miles off football in terms of interest, playing levels and tv money.

LoI figures on RTE tend to beat Magners League.

GAA figures murder them both.

http://www.rte.ie/about/pressreleases/2011/0125/tvsport25012011.html

The top honours for the year went to RTÉ Two's coverage of the All-Ireland Hurling Final (5th Sept, Kilkenny v Tipperary) with 979,000 viewers (39% share), making it the most-watched sports programme of the year on any TV channel.

Claiming second place was RTÉ Two's coverage of the All-Ireland Football Final (19th Sept, Cork v Down) with 770,000 viewers (60% share).

Beat the World Cup Final into 3rd.:)

chopperbyrne

I imagine a large proportion of Irish people watched the world cup final on one of the British channels too.

flahavaj

chopperbyrne wrote: »

I imagine a large proportion of Irish people watched the world cup final on one of the British channels too.

Ah yeah. Still pretty impressive though and smokes any Irish international game or LOL match.

The_Kew_Tour

Het-Field wrote: »

Then I guess you will be taking notice in 20 years or so.

The development of the Club (provincial clubs) game in Ireland has run parallel to the dawn of the professional era. Commenced in the mid 1990s provincial teams began their successful outings in 1996. In 1997 Leinster began taking out top English teams. The only reason Irish international rugby failed to develop until February 2000 was the decision by previous managers to select Irish players who were based in the English premiership, on the basis that their professional experiences were better. In 1999 Ulster won a European Cup, but Gatland refused to pick players like James Topping and Simon Mason, and instead selected the likes of Matt Moysten (based in Wales) and Justin Bishop (England) Ultimately, it was a flukey decision on Gatland's part to pack a team to face Scotland with Irish based players. Once the national team, and the provincial clubs began acting in consort, Irish rugby stock has increased beyond belief.

Irish rugby will continue to grow in tandem with the professional era. The sense of identity developed by the provincial game has ensured the coralling of support, and rugby fans are becoming more fanatical every day. It wont simply switch off. The provincial spirit will prevail, and young rugby fans will continue to flock to watch their province in action, and as players develop, they will gain a great affinity to them. As things stand, the fans of Leinster Rugby are not only treated to watching a solid team, in Brian O Driscoll they are watching Ireland's greatest ever athlete.

Hmmm it looks that way now but much can change in few years. Again I like to stress that you cant compare rugby and football really as so many differences.

From playing AIL I can speak for saying that many rugby fans only come when things are good and who to say that will be case in 20 years.

Het-Field

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Hmmm it looks that way now but much can change in few years. Again I like to stress that you cant compare rugby and football really as so many differences.

From playing AIL I can speak for saying that many rugby fans only come when things are good and who to say that will be case in 20 years.

In fairness, Lansdowne Road and Donnybrook used be packed in the 1990s even when Irish rugby was at a very low ebb.

The AIL has been somewhat neglected. However, it was not set for the professional era.

The_Kew_Tour

Het-Field wrote: »

In fairness, Lansdowne Road and Donnybrook used be packed in the 1990s even when Irish rugby was at a very low ebb.

The AIL has been somewhat neglected. However, it was not set for the professional era.

Fair points and I be wrong to say otherwise.

5 nations games from when I was growing up always had full capacity and I can only remember the bad times although beating England in 93 nearly made up for rest.

But I do remember 15,000 at game against Western Samoa and Italy too.

Rugby is going in right direction but few bad years and supporters will stay away for games outside 6 nations.

I do not see neglecting club rugby as a great move for future either but thats for debate in totally different Forum.

Het-Field

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Fair points and I be wrong to say otherwise.

5 nations games from when I was growing up always had full capacity and I can only remember the bad times although beating England in 93 nearly made up for rest.

But I do remember 15,000 at game against Western Samoa and Italy too.

Rugby is going in right direction but few bad years and supporters will stay away for games outside 6 nations.

I do not see neglecting club rugby as a great move for future either but thats for debate in totally different Forum.

Agreed, and I think the neglect of the AIL is lamentable. I do recall being able to pop to any AIL game and see several internationalls on show !

OPENROAD

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Fair points and I be wrong to say otherwise.

5 nations games from when I was growing up always had full capacity and I can only remember the bad times although beating England in 93 nearly made up for rest.

But I do remember 15,000 at game against Western Samoa and Italy too.

Rugby is going in right direction but few bad years and supporters will stay away for games outside 6 nations.

I do not see neglecting club rugby as a great move for future either but thats for debate in totally different Forum.

Does the Irish rugby team sell out for non 6 nations matches though, particularly the not so big test matches?

As for the soccer team, the ever increasing popularity of club football over the international team, poor football and expensive seats are all contributing factors.