repainting lake boat advice needed

MarcinG

Hi.

1 I spotted paint flaking (mostly on benches) like this:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_xW2AYU1f7y0/TZeRjjtVYBI/AAAAAAAAA6E/YjaoQ9Oiolc/s640/DSCF0524.JPG

and this:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_xW2AYU1f7y0/TZeSA69oCCI/AAAAAAAAA6Q/yUCYle_Mj3g/s640/DSCF0529.JPG

I presume that it just needs sanding and recoating but how careful shall I be about weather and paint? (Will normal wood stain do? and how good weather should I wait for before starting?

2 I found fungus inside front compartment

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_xW2AYU1f7y0/TZeR18zYQxI/AAAAAAAAA6M/c_FcmNNWL-A/s640/DSCF0527.JPG

(this is after removing most of it).
so far i used fungicidal solution (just mixed with water and painted over)
Do i need to go any deeper with cleaning or it is as good as it needs? and what to do next?


btw I'm looking for ideas on windlass or anchor rope storage solution (something better than bucket) preferably winch like.

connel42

Hi,
I have a few different Lake Boats as we rent them out here on Blessington Lake.
All the mainuafctuers use either Teak or Mahogany for gunwhale and seats.
Both these hardwoods have natural oils which make varnishing not a good idea.
Sheelin Boats use Sadolin Exterior Wood Protection as standard.http://www.sadolin.co.uk/homeowner/products/exterior/extradurableclearcoat/description
You can also use the Sadolin Exterior Teak stain but this will darken the wood a lot.
Give it a light rub down with sandpaper first.
Hope this helps.
If you use a danforth style or folding anchor it should fit in the front locker.
Regards
Connel

MarcinG

connel42 wrote: »

Hi,
Sheelin Boats use Sadolin Exterior Wood Protection as standard.

thank you very much ;P
I'll visit woodies in hope they'll have it.
If it comes to anchor I'm talking about tangling free rope storage rather than anchor itself (I've foldable anchor and even saw plastic cover for it somewhere).

MarcinG

Hi.

i just got rid of old paint (it looks like varnish - was quite shiny and smooth)
and repainted my boats gunwale and seats with sadolin stuff recomended.

But just about finish i accidentally punctured gunwale (at front where the sheelin boats has compartament/locker and i found fungus inside previously)
with screwdriver and it went all the way in (it means i punctured good 5cm of hardwood by hand!).
So i took a closer look and found that entire inside and outside of gunwale is rotten (funny enough it looks pretty solid from outside while it has a paper mash structure inside - you can easily pinch it with fingers).

I followed rotten wood and it looks like at least half of right gunwale is rotten.

So i guess entire gunwale to be replaced - is this very expensive job on 17" boat? (i can fit it myself all i need is a piece of solid hardwood plank in propper size and shape)

And (if it turns too expensive to do at this moment) can I just use treated softwood timber for a moment (couple of months less than 20h of using boat) replacing just a half of gunwale? as i guess it will be no worst than using boat with rotten gunwale as i did couple of times in ignorance of its state.

any ideas/clues how to deal with it?

fergal.b

Hi marcing, I think you should go for a proper fix you could use iroko as it's not too expensive and easy to get. It looks like you might have a leak in one of your fittings and the water is running along the timber, throw some water over the bow mixed with red or blue food dye and see if you can spot where it is getting in and fix it. If you can remove the old timber in one piece so you can make a copy of it as it may have a taper on top also copy out the curve of it onto a length of timber and place some screws along the line of the curve to hold the new piece, as you may not be able to bend the new bit in one go you might have to do it in laminations of 2-3 gluing them with epoxy resin and while they are still wet place them onto the curve you have marked out and hold in place with a few more screws and when it is set it should hold it's shape and fit right back into the boat.
Best of luck with it.

oscarBravo

I'd be tempted to go straight for the lamination route. Making up the sheer clamps for the gunwales of my dinghy, they're made from four 8mm-thick strips of hardwood glued and clamped/screwed together while being clamped/screwed (but not glued yet) to the boat. The 8mm strips are easy to bend, even to a small extent in two planes, so while following the curve of the hull they can also follow the slight rise in the bow.

Having let the glue set we were able to remove the laminated piece from the boat for finishing, and it holds the shape of the hull perfectly.

MarcinG

>Hi marcing, I think you should go for a proper fix you could use iroko as >it's not too expensive and easy to get.

Where to get it and how expensive would it be?
As gunwale goes around boat etc...

>It looks like you might have a leak in one of your fittings and the water is >running along the timber,

i got rid of locker already (screws were stubborn and rusted couldn't do much about it and have to remove top to reach inside part of gunwale) - found it useless (too far from my seat , too smal for storage and too close to last seat etc) but this space just created will do perfect place for anchor and windlass + rod holders.

>If you can remove the old timber in one piece so you can make a copy of >it as it may have a taper on top also copy out the curve of it onto a >length of timber and place some screws along the line of the curve to >hold the new piece,

i would rather use other side as right one fell a part already and i cut a bit of it to use as template to buy new one.

>as you may not be able to bend the new bit in one go you might have to >do it in laminations of 2-3 gluing them with epoxy resin and while they are >still wet place them onto the curve you have marked out and hold in >place with a few more screws and when it is set it should hold it's shape >and fit right back into the boat.

uu this makes it complicated (i see my dog getting over excited with smelly resin and chewing whole thing already ;P + it will be one big mess.

how expensive would be to order gunwale 17" long and how expensive would be to buy several number of hardwood stripes to make it myself (asking as sometimes saving 10e isn't worth the hassle) + gunwale not only has a certain curve but it is also bend upwards)

MarcinG

oscarBravo wrote: »

I'd be tempted to go straight for the lamination route. Making up the sheer clamps for the gunwales of my dinghy, they're made from four 8mm-thick strips of hardwood glued and clamped/screwed together while being clamped/screwed (but not glued yet) to the boat. The 8mm strips are easy to bend, even to a small extent in two planes, so while following the curve of the hull they can also follow the slight rise in the bow.
Having let the glue set we were able to remove the laminated piece from the boat for finishing, and it holds the shape of the hull perfectly.

ok where to get them and how long would it take to replace one outside gunwale (17" long)?

fergal.b

I am in north Co.Dublin and can get it local but any timber yard should be able to help you out, I buy my planks rough and they will cut them to size, you will lose a bit in sawdust from the with of the blade. You might find it hard to get 17 " long I use 16" but if you are laminating it won't matter what size you get as you can butt them in different places. I get my planks cut down to 4' by 1/4" and can get a bit of a bend in them so if you get 2' or 3' you should have no problem bending them to the shape of the boat. I am not sure if you will be able to just go out and buy a gunwale but if you can do it like oscarBravo did it's not that hard a job.

MarcinG

>I am in north Co.Dublin and can get it local but any timber yard should be >able to help you out,

you mean like chadwicks or something? I'm living in shankill.

>I use 16" but if you are laminating it won't matter what size you get as
> you can butt them in different places.

doy you laminating them raw or preparing somehow? what sort of stuff would you recomend?

>I get my planks cut down to 4' by 1/4"

ever used sligltly wider ones (like 7/16" 10-11mm?) as i want to go for less layers if possible and want to get at least 2cm from each side of glass fiber (not sure do I need to replace inner plank - how to check them without damaging? try to puncture it with pz screwdriver and consider rotten if make print any deeper than 1mm?)

thank you very much for help so far (as you did with replacing bearings already)

fergal.b

Yep chadwicks should have it I was also able to get in brooks builders providers.http://www.chadwicks.ie/floors/50-hardwood.html

When I get the planks back they are sanded so no preparing I just put the epoxy resin on to the two sides and clamp when it dry's it's very strong and waterproof.

On the chine and sheer here I used 1/2 inch and 1 inch laminations and as you can see there was quite a bit of bending and twisting.:eek:so it will work you might need a few more clamps

MarcinG

impresive.


I'll try to go to chadwicks etc tomorow and see what they can ofer.
btw and i have to get more clamps (i have like 3 or 4 and only 2 of them are good ones).

Ps: what about those 3 planks (kils whatever they called I'm not into proper buzz words but learning which are located outside hull and are constantly under water - what should i use to paint them?

btw any idea where to get "hub savers" in ROI?
as every time I'm launching boat I'm replacing some grease in hubs and got strange idea that too much water is getting into hubs (as grease comes out very thin and darkish).

oscarBravo

MarcinG wrote: »

ok where to get them and how long would it take to replace one outside gunwale (17" long)?

I bought rough planks and got a local joiner to rip them down to size. My boat is 15' long, and each strip is about 8' long, so the four laminations are made up of eight lengths. The joints are staggered so they don't line up with each other, otherwise there would be a horrible kink in it.

We have the starboard side done a while now, and just started on the port side. The first two strips took a couple of hours to cut to size, clamp and screw and glue in place. Once the glue's dry, another couple of hours will do the remaining strips. Again, once the glue's dry, we'll remove it, finish it (filling and sanding mostly) and screw and glue it back to the hull.

I reckon it's a couple of days' work, all told. That's on my wee dinghy, though, I don't know what challenges your boat will present.

fergal.b

Any timber outside and in the boat I encapsulate in 3 or more coats of epoxy resin putting one on top of the other before it's fully set then when the last coat is set wash with water and give a light sand I then coat in marine varnish for uv protection.


Are these the things you are looking for.
http://cgi.ebay.ie/Pair-Bearing-Savers-suit-EXT750-Boat-trailer-/380174905547?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_BoatEquipment_Accessories_SM&hash=item588430b0cb#ht_500wt_922 if so you should be able to get them here. http://dublin.yalwa.ie/ID_103145392/Indespension-Parnell-Trailer-Centre.html

MarcinG

fergal.b wrote: »

Any timber outside and in the boat I encapsulate in 3 or more coats of epoxy resin putting one on top of the other before it's fully set then when the last coat is set wash with water and give a light sand I then coat in marine varnish for uv protection.

Should i use a particular epoxy (from mpd or sth) or just any epoxy i can find in chadwicks/woodies?

I guess i have to use epoxy on dry timber in dry conditions (boat is outside)?

hmm so you advice is to use varnish (both someone in thread and boat manufacturer said that i should avoid varnish (someone in sheelin boats said : whatever you do do not use varnish) and as all boat is painted in sadolin i would like to keep it this way (it would drive me nuts to strip down freshly painted timber - it took me over 5h to strip it last time

fergal.b

I use "west system epoxy" and get it from MPD it comes out clear with a bit of a tint and is for boat use.
If the boat is painted in sadolin leave it alone so, if it's oil based the resin will not bond to it. Depending on what type of finish you want some times varnish is the only way to go.:D

MarcinG

just visited chadwicks and brooks and local diy store.
non of them stock hardwood, and even if they would it would be a big chunks 4x2 or sth and they do not cut it on site. i guess if anyone have any sure source of timber in size we talking about in dublin area please let me know.

fergal.b

I get it from these guy's if you want to come this far http://www.mcnallyjoinery.ie/contact_form but I'm sure you will find a joinery shop near you, maybe ask a local carpenter or post your question here.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=530

MarcinG

finally got 3x6 plank of iroko (2.4m long) in brooks on long mile road (13 euro) and got it cut in local saw mill (for beer 6pack) to bits 8mmx90mmx2400mm (i got quite few of strips - oryginal gunwale is 7,5 cm high so i have inch of play for vertical plane of the hull).
Now i understand that i'm fixing first strip to oryginal gunwale (with screws from inside? - as othervise it would be hard to remove after bending done)
and bonding it with second strip using expoxy and securing with clamps. (and third if neccesary)
When epoxy sets I'm replacing entire outside gunwale and replacing it with new one (sanded+painted with varnish).
Repeating procedure (if neccesary) with internal plank and on other side of boat (how to recognize rotten wood as it looks ok from outside?) .

I had also second idea to remove only rotten part on gunwale and planing/routing groove from outside of healthy one (id depth matching my new strips width)
so i can bond them together for better finish and less work involved.

no i have to visit lidl and get some of this cheap clamps (i have few and they are quite ok). + buy epoxy.

I'll post pictures after job done.
Fergal.b+oscar bravo i owe you a good drink

MarcinG

Hi there.

As promised I just want to add some pictures





ps no one mentioned filler for epoxy (finally i got confused how to mix it and made it thick but still running).



i also found such thing:


and used it with some success ( i mean treated wood turned quite hard - and this is all I wanted)

thank you all for help (boat tested on some waves couple of times and doing well.
Ps i found more of wood soft but at the moment not repairing till broken (as found bending wood in all 3 planes tricky + gunwales on this boat looks more like ornament rather reinforcement - am i right?)

MarcinG

Ps i have 2 more questions on my boat and trailer:

1
can i replace those side pads on original sheelin trailer with rollers? ( as in order to launch the boat i have to release them - it means put my entire arm into water + one of them is stuck already and it is little difficult to launch/retrieve it on my own as i have to use winch and tilt boat at same time - just thought if i would use 2 wide rollers boat would just roll over them without me even touching it. Is this generally good idea?
2
are they balast chambers (one located at each end)? And if so can some one tell me how to empty them on water and what they are for?)

3 isn't this outboard too short for this boat (guys from sheelin said to use short one, but then i found info that propeller shall be at same level with boat bottom and my one is slightly higher:

fergal.b

Yep you can replace those with these
http://www.marineparts.ie/trailer-parts/trailer-rollers-and-brackets/trailer-side-roller-bracket-for-md268458.html
http://www.marineparts.ie/trailer-parts/trailer-rollers-and-brackets/trailer-side-roller-for-bracket-md268472.html

It looks like they are just for emptying into the sub deck when the boat is out of the water and then out of the bung at the back of the boat, but not 100% sure.

The cavitation plate above the prop should be level with the bottom of the boat or in your case the keel, with the engine like that you will find it hard to steer and will be low on power.

MarcinG

Yep you can replace those with these
http://www.marineparts.ie/trailer-parts/trailer-rollers-and-brackets/trailer-side-roller-bracket-for-md268458.html
http://www.marineparts.ie/trailer-parts/trailer-rollers-and-brackets/trailer-side-roller-for-bracket-md268472.html

just what i had on mind. Thank you

It looks like they are just for emptying into the sub deck when the boat is out of the water and then out of the bung at the back of the boat, but not 100% sure.

They are 2 cavities- 1 at each end of the boat. each of cavities has a bung next to the floor- but thera are no outside plugs (or i'm blind)

https://picasaweb.google.com/105899983572256948046/Boat?authkey=Gv1sRgCK2Ay_i-58WC_gE#5625856602224641794

https://picasaweb.google.com/105899983572256948046/Boat?authkey=Gv1sRgCK2Ay_i-58WC_gE#5625856620797242290

I made my own drainage bung under last bench as it was driving me mad to manually empty it after every rain.

The cavitation plate above the prop should be level with the bottom of the boat or in your case the keel, with the engine like that you will find it hard to steer and will be low on power.

I have no problem with steering but i feel low power all right - i mean for 6HP(new engine) max (calm weather) around 11-12kmh with 2 people and some gear (around 300kg of load) i expected more

MarcinG

hi guys (probably means Ferga.bl

I just spotted some cracks on the hull (at the bow where still strip it attached to the hull):
Left side 3rd screw from the top:


Same screw right side looks ok:

Can't check from inside - as is is front buoyancy tank.

Again left side (1st screw from the top - that is a hook for winch one):

it doesn't look as bad as lower one and certainly not going through.

Should i be worried? Sand it down with dremel to see what is beneath and how deep does it go? or just don't fix it if not broken?
Thanks.

fergal.b

I think you should have a go at fixing it, if water gets in the fiberglass behind the gelcoat will soak it up like a sponge then if it's hit with a frost it will expand and crack more of the gelcoat. Can you take that band off, it might be that the screws have corroded inside and are swelling up.
It will be fun trying to match up the gelcoat you will have to get a colour kit and do some test pieces http://www.ebay.com/itm/Evercoat-Fiberglass-Gelcoat-Paint-Scratch-Repair-Kit-108000-Boats-Tubs-Pools-/170900945746?hash=item27ca7d7b52&item=170900945746&pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&vxp=mtr#ht_1574wt_923

MarcinG

I don't care about colour match that much. More afraid about integrity of the boat. What is gellcoat? i though it is a kind of fancy paint (never had a boat and English isn't my first language).
So i just sand it down and re coat with it? can i just use epoxy with filler? (i spotted in few places one of previous owners used just something appearing as silicone? i think i can easily pinch it of by hand).
And i done my lesson - my next boat will be 99% aluminum (this one looked perfect as new and so far i'm repairing it every few months..). I also seen problems with double hull boats and mess in between layers of GRP...

PS. one of my friend laughing at me packing grease into hubs after every launching just lost one wheel on the way fishing ;/

fergal.b

The gelcoat is the smooth waterproof epoxy skin on the boat it is put on in the mould before the fiberglass mesh or cloth,if your not too worried about the colour you can repair it with epoxy mixed with filler you will need to cut into the crack deep enough for it to get a good hold, this might help.

MarcinG

thx.

MarcinG

ps how are those screws installed - any guess? a nut inside hull or just a plank of timber laminated into it? Just before i take it a part i want to make sure that i will be able to put it back together without replacing half of it...
As if it will turn a rusty swollen nut or worst a rotten wood it may take to remove substantial amount of GRP.

fergal.b

I'd say it's just screwed into timber laminated in the bow but you wont know till you try the bow eye would normally go right through the timber and be bolted on the inside but on yours if your lucky it might be welded to the steel guard, it's hard to tell from the photo but if it is just welded it could be the resin why the screws are pulling out and cracking the fiberglass as it's been winched onto the trailer.

MarcinG

fergal.b wrote: »

bow eye would normally go right through the timber and be bolted on the inside

Yes it is. And as i had hard time to carve it from single block of hardwood i just replaced it with normal timber - you can easy access it as i removed front hatch (it all started there - someone probably left wet clothes there for long time).
Ps. any idea what could actually happen to this timber:
First i spotted fungus inside hatch (biggest was like actual mushroom about 5-6cm in diameter) i replaced right gunwale and then strange things started on the right one: (i finally replaced it few months ago but still wondering what it was):

I removed it couple of times but it always respawn.

back to current problem:
But i'm interested in other bolts/screws which are at front buoyancy tank level. I dont have money now to buy hektolitres of epoxy and just afraid of removing bolts as may not be able to put them back on. I thought that there is some sort of common practice to fix this steel band to the hull.

fergal.b

Soft wood won't last long when it's wet and will start to rot straight away if left damp so I'd say wherever you have mushrooms you will find rotting wood.:(
The ones in your video look a bit strange more like termites leaving mounds of wood dust can you see any little round holes where you cleaned it off.

MarcinG

i only fitted softwood at bow hook fitting point (it is literally 25x3x5cm big no big deal to replace it if something happens as easy access to it) because all hardwood was cut into too thin strips already. in place where i have mushrooms (inside bow hatch) i have replaced all timber with iroko planks laminate as adviced and painted with sadolin exterior.
Thing on the video:
First time i spotted it it was inside hatch and it had light brown pudding appearance with like cocoa coating on it - then it looked as on video - thin outer coat filled with brown fine powder.
Did not find it anywhere else - only at right 1/5 on gunwale. after removing an old gunwale i cut it into bits about 20cm long to burn it in fireplace - no termites found (unless they are too small to see by bare eye).

fergal.b

I'm no expert on mushrooms the only one I can think of that looks something like them are "puffballs"

pedroeibar1

The fungus on the wood looks like a classic wet-rot fungus. Use a solution of bleach or sterylizer (Milton, the stuff for babies' bottles) to wash out the area and kill the root, otherwise the root will continue to creep. The brown dust you are seeing is the spores (seed) from the fruit (the mushroom, which pops up from a hidden root.)

MarcinG

O you see.. you learn every day
Thanks.

MarcinG

fergal.b wrote: »

I'd say it's just screwed into timber laminated in the bow but you wont know till you try the bow eye would normally go right through the timber and be bolted on the inside but on yours if your lucky it might be welded to the steel guard, it's hard to tell from the photo but if it is just welded it could be the resin why the screws are pulling out and cracking the fiberglass as it's been winched onto the trailer.

So they are bolts not screws (hard to say where they go as they 5-7cm long). Crack was just in gel coat (1-2mm deep? at least i couldn't see it any more after sanding down that much witch dremel) surface under neath has strange brownish color (like timber but it has plastic feel) but this doesn't bother me and i just put some epoxy over it and call it done. Of course one of the bolts got stuck and i'll have to weld other bolt to it or just cut it flush with hull.
Thanks once again.