Internet Merchant Account

suey71

I will be applying for an IMA soon and I was wondering how long the whole process takes and what are the hoops I'll have to jump through?

Also, is there a minimum amount of transactions needed before I can apply for an IMA?

Thanks.

TheCostumeShop.ie: Ronan

Depends who you go with and what you are after, probably about three weeks if you let the processor host the payments page (meaning you don't need to be PCI DSS compliant).

Here's my tips:

1. Get your SSL cert installed before you submit
2. Use a business address to apply, merchant bankers nearly always reject businesses based from a home address as a rule of thumb. Stupidity at its utmost but play the game and use a commercial address.
3. Don't sell gift vouchers.
4. Fight any attempts at delayed funding as much as you can.
5. Avoid AIB as Merchants, you'll have less sleepless nights.
6. Have your contact details prominently displayed
7. Have a fair Returns policy which is in line with the distant selling act
8. Have a button at check out to verify that customers have read and agree to the terms and conditions of the contract they are entering into.

suey71

Thanks Ronan,

I do my Business Banking with AIB so it will probably be a hassle going with going with BOI Elevon, though I could go with Ulster Bank/Streamline but I've never heard of Streamline.

I'll get the SSL Cert asap and get the button installed at the end.
The rest is all sorted.

Thanks

TheCostumeShop.ie: Ronan

I thought the same thing when I started off too. When things hit the fan they we're very quick to point out that they are completely separate companies.

We use Elavon and AIB, if that's of any help. Not that any of them are worthy of recommendations.

douglashyde

Hi Ronan,

Could you clarify how this work; Ive always been a bit slow on payment processing and payment online.

Am I right in saying that elavon process the payment? In which case, why do you need a IMA with AIB or a better question is "What does an IMA actually do?"

Thanks for the help, dont mean to hijack the thread.

TheCostumeShop.ie: Ronan

Ok, so you need a normal bank current account to land the money into. You need a merchant account to process the cards with Visa / Mastercard and pay you the money.

You then need a card processor to take the card details and return an authorization code if the person has funds, then deal with the merchant bankers..

So the way it works in reality is the customer enters the card details in the processors system (Worldnet TPS / Realex), they then talk to the merchant and give you a response, if its positive the merchant (Elavon) transfers over the money to your current account.

Seperate

My merchant accounts were setup with AIB (have my business & personal accounts with them) in less then a week. The rep came out (Monday), I filled out a half dozen forms, had a chat with him and he phoned me with the numbers on the friday.

The letters and machine arrived early the following week.

Not nearly as much hassle as some people make out!

TheCostumeShop.ie: Ronan

Seperate out of interest did they take the time to explain the difference between XML integration and a hosted payment page? Or did they tell you that you had to do everything via the easiest way for them to set it up?

Sounds like you got a good rep.

PS. for everyone else - there is no machine when you apply for an internet merchant account incase there is confusion.

suey71

Thanks for all of your replies so far.

Seperate, would you be able to pm me that reps contact details please.

Ronan, could you elaborate on the difference between XML and a Hosted Payments Page? I know you were stung in the past, would the diffence between the above be the reason?

Thanks

TheCostumeShop.ie: Ronan

Nah my issue was to do with us needing to change the name on the current account and resulted in them threatening to close down all of our businesses without the legal statuary notice. So it's safe to say I had a bad experience. However I'm not out for revenge, just trying to mentor a few people who are starting up using my experience.

The difference between a hosted page and integrated page is whether the customer has to leave your site to make a payment. If they leave the site there is a percentage called "puke rate", which means some people new to online purchasing might get confused by the change of URL and occasionally some browsers notify the customer that they are leaving the website for a third party site. This is why big sites are nearly always XML integrated. But to be XML integrated you will need to be compliant with PCI DSS standards. At the time I was doing business with AIB the risk department asked me to send them a copy of these standards, so careful trusting any perceived experts in this industry.

Another thing to watch out for is deposits and delayed funding. If you are a high risk category they may hold on to your money for an additional few days. What this means is at any one time they have 3+ days worth of your sales on which they earn interest on and use to mitigate their risk if the buyer was using a stolen card. These days of cash flow can be vital to a new business.

Lastly to mention there is an OPTION called 3D secure, which asks customers to enter their "password" for their credit cards. If the customer does not have a password they then ask for personal information. In my experience some people do not know their card limits etc by heart and more importantly the banks and credit card companies have not made sufficient efforts to inform customers this is normal procedure and therefore, worries by all the publicity of "Phishing" (stealing personal detail for the purpose of fraud) or not knowing the questions asked about their banking details, they "puke" (leave without paying). It varies depending on target demographic but expect to loose ~ 7 - 11% of sales turnover.

None of these options are wrong or bad, often they are the most suitable for small business, but what frustrates me is these institutions should be telling small businesses about what they are getting into rather than forcing these options on them by not telling them there are other ways that give other firms different advantages; Simply because its easier for them to set up every account using the path of least effort for them.

Any first time entrepreneurs who've applied for a internet merchant account I'd love to hear if you were made aware of all of the above?

unklerosco

I applied for an internet merchant account last year and wasn't informed of any of the above, although in fairness I wasn't told much. It was a bit of a mess, I never continued with it. I will be looking into setting up an account soon tho, at present my payments are processed through a separate website, it's a bit messy but works for us. It's the cost that's the problem hence I want to get my own account.

I knew about the differences between hosted/integrated pages... My web developer's been looking into that.. I know about the 3D secure from a customers point of view, it's a bloody pain in the ass. I have to change my password everytime I use it as I always forget what it is. It's gotten to the stage where if I see it mentioned before I make a payment I'll cancel the order and go somewhere else. It's too much hassle..

As for the delayed funding, I've heard about this. Was an issue in my previous attempt to set up an account, one of the services we provide is summer camps for kids and as such we take payments a few months in advance of the customer receiving the product as it where. The crowd I was dealing with at the time didn't like this and wanted us to provide a security deposit upfront, no exact figure was mentioned but it was a good few thousand they wanted. They also wanted to hold onto the funds until a week or so before the camps etc started. That was when I said, hell no!! Will see if it's any different this time around..

demoreino

How much per month should a business expect to pay for a credit card machine . I have one ,but my business is very seasonal so some months there would be no transactions .
We pay a set monthly rate and then a percentage on all transactions.
It works out quite expensive but we need it or something simalar ,if anyone had any suggestions it would be great

mneylon

TheCostumeShop.ie: Ronan wrote: »

Lastly to mention there is an OPTION called 3D secure, which asks customers to enter their "password" for their credit cards. If the customer does not have a password they then ask for personal information. In my experience some people do not know their card limits etc by heart and more importantly the banks and credit card companies have not made sufficient efforts to inform customers this is normal procedure and therefore, worries by all the publicity of "Phishing" (stealing personal detail for the purpose of fraud) or not knowing the questions asked about their banking details, they "puke" (leave without paying). It varies depending on target demographic but expect to loose ~ 7 - 11% of sales turnover.

3D secure might be an option at the moment, but it is becoming more and more important.

You focussed solely on lost sales - you forgot to mention that if you implement 3D secure you get more protection as a merchant

A LOT of sites are using 3D secure these days (Dominos and Just Eat are two that I've used in the last week) so users will have got themselves setup at some point. It's only the initial setup that prompts you for the extra info - once you have a login you just need to enter the random digits when paying.

TheCostumeShop.ie: Ronan

True, it's becoming more acceptable and those who buy take away online are more net proficient that the average, first time purchaser online. Some of my businesses use it. My point was only to point out vendors aren't been told all their options.

mneylon

TheCostumeShop.ie: Ronan wrote: »

True, it's becoming more acceptable and those who buy take away online are more net proficient that the average, first time purchaser online. Some of my businesses use it. My point was only to point out vendors aren't been told all their options.

I wouldn't see something that reduces the likelihood of chargebacks as being an optional addon

The main problem is that a LOT of merchants don't take security seriously enough, though with PCI compliance becoming obligatory hopefully this will change

EIREHotspur

I have to setup an online store for someone (my first) and have not had time to look through all the posts here yet.

I will be advising them to go with paypal for now as the hoops you have to jump through to get a merchant account will put them off I feel.

Palpal will cost them roughly 5% per transaction along with the ability to use credit card too.

I know that a mercahnt account will appeal more professional though.

Seperate

EIREHotspur wrote: »

I have to setup an online store for someone (my first) and have not had time to look through all the posts here yet.

I will be advising them to go with paypal for now as the hoops you have to jump through to get a merchant account will put them off I feel.

Palpal will cost them roughly 5% per transaction along with the ability to use credit card too.

I know that a mercahnt account will appeal more professional though.

As I said above, it's not as much hassle as people are making out sometimes. Certainly worth testing the water with an IMA rep at least. If your client has any kind of trading history it shouldn't be a problem.

Is the site irish based? If so, Laser card is an absolute must-have. I know some banks are going visa-debit but there's still hundreds of thousands with laser cards. I went almost a year with paypal and when I added laser not only did sales increase by about 70% but profitability went up considerably too!

Seperate

TheCostumeShop.ie: Ronan wrote: »

Any first time entrepreneurs who've applied for a internet merchant account I'd love to hear if you were made aware of all of the above?

There was a section on the forms for my IMA about which payment processor I planned to use. I had looked at SagePay and Realex, spoke to both of them and went with Realex. They've been outstanding so far, any small niggles I had at the beginning were ironed out in good time and anytime I've have to get on to them since they've been brilliant.

I had a good chat with the rep at the time about integrated vs hosted payment. I do all the web site stuff myself so it was me who wanted the easier option. I will be getting the site & shop done professionally at some point and will look into integrated processing. Realex let you customise their payment page so it looks like my site, but I know going elsewhere to pay may put some people off.

I've no delay in getting money. Once it's batched by Realex I get it two days later. The rep did ask how long it takes for people to get the orders (usually next day) and about return policies and that kind of thing. He obviously didn't see it as a 'risk' in so far as releasing the money.

thesweetshopie

hi there i would use moneybooker
i use them for my online store i built great rates and its easy to install and for easy access to your money though a mastercard linked to your account or transfer to you bank too

TheCostumeShop.ie: Ronan

I guess my point is if you loose say 10% of turnover by having 3D secure by the same manor unklerosco demonstrated ie. that he pukes on its presence.

Say if the 10% of sales had 1% profit and if the total Fraud amounts to 0.2%, it's still business sense to put up with the fraud.

3D secure was a good idea badly executed. If the credit card companies wanted to verify ownership of the card they could have easily done it by verifying and correlating the phone number required for delivery to the cards. Simple, but instead they set up a system that puts their users with a barrier to purchasing and having their goals met.

EireHotspur - You definitely should have Laser Card integration for Irish Customers. The puke rate for Paypal only is also very high. Make it as easy as possible for customers to buy from you.

EIREHotspur

Thanks for that info lads.

An Internet Store is something that can be a minefield and of course fraud is the big fear factor.

The website is UK based.
I hear what your saying about paypal though and puke factor is a good rating system (I especially don't like the stories I read about them suspending accounts without warning, can you imagine the hassle I would get when the website went down?).

So they would need:
- a Merchant Account with their UK Bank?
- an Account with Realex

Roughly, What are the fees for Merchant Acounts?

TheCostumeShop.ie: Ronan

Well this financial regulator would have a field day if they actually took down your site without the 30 day notice period as it's massively illegal. But even the threat / letters can be very alarming.

Saying that we're not trying to put you off getting a merchant account - they are almost essential to selling online. There's a great info site http://webpayments.ie that has loads of info and is a great resource.

mikefm

EIREHotspur wrote: »

Thanks for that info lads.

An Internet Store is something that can be a minefield and of course fraud is the big fear factor.

The website is UK based.
I hear what your saying about paypal though and puke factor is a good rating system (I especially don't like the stories I read about them suspending accounts without warning, can you imagine the hassle I would get when the website went down?).

So they would need:
- a Merchant Account with their UK Bank?
- an Account with Realex

Roughly, What are the fees for Merchant Acounts?

We use Paypoint in the UK. It was £75 to setup the IMA but it took a few months...

Anybody have any experience with Carapay ?

mneylon

mikefm wrote: »

Anybody have any experience with Carapay ?

It hasn't launched yet, so I doubt if you'll find anyone who has experience of it ..

It's run by the same people as Realex, so I suspect it will be pretty good and we will integrate with them as soon as we can

sandin

Its not open yet, but stripe.com promises to give paypal a run for its money.

It has been set up by the 2 schoolboys (now adults:)) who developed the auctionmate software and one of the early investors is the same guys who invested in facebook.

They stated in an interview last week that it would make taking & making payments online extremely simple.

EIREHotspur

TheCostumeShop.ie: Ronan wrote: »

Well this financial regulator would have a field day if they actually took down your site without the 30 day notice period as it's massively illegal. But even the threat / letters can be very alarming.

Saying that we're not trying to put you off getting a merchant account - they are almost essential to selling online. There's a great info site http://webpayments.ie that has loads of info and is a great resource.

Sorry I meant to say that paypal closed their account and not their website.

This is a very important thread as I am sure a lot of people are thinking of setting up online stores now.

Thanks for the paypoint link Mike, thats another option.
You still went with a Merchant Account even while dealing with them?
They also do an all in one deal too.

As for stripe.com, now there is a very understated announcement page for an upcoming application.

I have to say though that the biggest dissapointment strictly from my point of view, is the design quality of shopping carts on offer with these options.
I have come accross very good flash shopping carts on websites built for Paypal.
These ones like Zencart etc are just plain awful 1990s web design.

sandin

I read a bit more on stripe - seem paypal have invested in them too.

http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/stealthy_startup_stripe_loved_by_vcs_will_aim_for.php

Not bad having a company with a valuation of $20m before it shows anything.

suey71

I've just been on the phone to a guy in AIB Merchant Services.

He told me that the set up fee for the IMA is €190 and the fee's are as follows.

1). Credit Cards - 2.75%.

2). Debit Cards/Laser 25c.

3). Visa Debit Cards 35c.

Just checking to see if this the norm.

He's going to send me more info later.

He asked about my site www.happyjane.ie , what I sell etc. and that he'd have to get someone to check the site out.

Because I sell adult products will it affect me getting an IMA???

sandin

2.75% is high - only a little better than paypal. I'm on 1.5% and 13c for debit cards, but I process 300+ orders a week

Your site will be risk assessed - if there's a chance of many chargebacks, they charge extra.

suey71

Are the rates that I posted the norm for start ups or could I haggle with them?

Wouldn't mind having 300+ orders per week:cool:.

sandin

suey71 wrote: »

Are the rates that I posted the norm for start ups or could I haggle with them?

Wouldn't mind having 300+ orders per week:cool:.

and the staff costs, marketing costs, stock management, copetitive pricing issues, other retailers compaining about me and the rest - but better than €300,000 rent and very little business in a big shopping centre.

suey71

AIB Merchant Services just called me. They had their risk assessors take a look at my site and because of the content cant give me an IMA.

They recommended Ulster Bank Stremline.

Has anyone here ever delt with these?

suey71

I found a great video on Youtube by Jonathan Forde of Realex.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvtxzxXhyD0&feature=player_embedded#at=273

sandin

suey71 wrote: »

AIB Merchant Services just called me. They had their risk assessors take a look at my site and because of the content cant give me an IMA.

They recommended Ulster Bank Stremline.

Has anyone here ever delt with these?

My opinion is you're best off starting with a paypal payment service. You can set it up in minutes and customers won't have to have a paypal account to buy from you.

Once you've established yourself, you can look into other options. Also, best to have your business account with the merchant service you are going for. Ulster = Stream line, BOI = Elavon etc.

suey71

I'm already set up with Paypal but would like to accept Laser.

My business banking is with AIB so its strange they refused me.

TheCostumeShop.ie: Ronan

As I said the two are completely separate entity's, personally I think it's bad form they would put their ethics into consideration on your content. The decisions should be made on fundamentals - I would imagine low chargebacks / returns on your products, you may pay slightly higher rates if there is a genuine risk but they shouldn't be allowed reject you.

So much for supporting business and SME's.

suey71

I'll go down to AIB tomorrow and see what they say.

I've got the tamist adult toy shop in the country so I'd love to know who the other's are using.