A few questions

Airsoft Reloded

Craic all,

We are changing some of the rules that we oporate on our site (leaving the name out because we are not trying to advertise), see below;

You are no longer allowed to;

kick doors
Use doors as shields or use home made riot shields
Fire full auto anywhere on site at any time

You must never;

Block a door or a corridor
Fire full auto into another player
Offer a bang kill (They cause arguments/lead to disruptions in gameplay)
Throw a grenade with an over arm thow (an under arm throw will ensure noone gets injured or annoyed)

You must always;

Fire single fire onto the stairs
Fire burst/single fire into opposing players (burst fire is pressing the trigger for less than a second ensuring no more than 3 bbs hit the opposing player)

I was wondering what people think of the full auto and bang kill issue on sites, the ability/inability to move cover on sites, the use of grenades indoors and the use of riot shields.

Put together these issues can cause arguments when a fire fight gets extreme and bbs are flying so we are trying to gage what the community wants in regards to the above and we feel that a general consensus would be good for all involved in the airsoft boards community

I know that was a it long winded, thanks for you opinions

goodlad

All sounds good man, but just to clarify something.

I assume its ok to lay down full auto as supressing fire?

Perfect example is in a corridor with the enemy team down the other end, if your team mate wants to cross to another room, laying down some full auto tends to stop the enemy team popping their heads out while your team mate moves his ass.

I agree with the burst fire when aiming at a player, but depending on some of the custom guns out there at the moment, a few more than 3 bb's will hit em.

So maybe those players with mental rate of fire guns will have to be extra carefull with the aul trigger finger.

Firekitten

Ok, I apear to have initially missunderstood this...

Personal views:

Full auto ban... Great Idea. Airsoft is about the game, not causing pain, full auto + adrenaline leads to overkill.

Bang kills: Allow people to offer it, but tell people in the brief its not in the rules. If they want to bang thier mate (har har) they can, but be prepared to shoot the person, or dont whine when shot. (works that way in nearly all uk sites now)

door kicking and using them as shields... yeah, agree, bad form.
Riot shields... too much complication and stress, agreed.

As for the 'fire a 3 round bust' part, I dont think thats remotely feasible, policable, or sane. Outside, auto is fine, indoors, why not just use semi? you can pull the trigger three times if you like.

'pulling the trigger for a second or less' In most stock guns, is 15 rounds, in
G&ps, thats 25... upgraded gun? 30 or so. see my point?

Like the rules on the whole, Agree with your ideas


Goodlad: too hard to police, and would lead to arguments. 'full auto for supression' yet not on people is impossible to look after. you can supress with semi auto.... heck ive supressed a position with a pistol before, its entirely doable, so no real reason to allow it (and too many NOT to.) That make sense?

Arkslippy

The riot shield thing is fine to use for me. Can break deadlock.

Kicking doors is fine too.

The auto rule should be common sense, from long range; 15 meters plus its fine for suppression, if anybody is within 10 meters of you, you don't need to riddle them and certainly not above chest or below belt either way.

It's rof that causes an issue, where getting hit with a very high rof gun up close results in getting hit with 4 or 5 rounds at the same impact point can cause injury.

I think you just make a judgement call on performance of that type of thing.

I'm not anti high rof, but think it does allow for accidental injury upclose.

Airsoft Reloded

Firekitten wrote: »

Ok, I apear to have initially missunderstood this...

Personal views:

Full auto ban... Great Idea. Airsoft is about the game, not causing pain, full auto + adrenaline leads to overkill.

Bang kills: Allow people to offer it, but tell people in the brief its not in the rules. If they want to bang thier mate (har har) they can, but be prepared to shoot the person, or dont whine when shot. (works that way in nearly all uk sites now)

door kicking and using them as shields... yeah, agree, bad form.
Riot shields... too much complication and stress, agreed.

As for the 'fire a 3 round bust' part, I dont think thats remotely feasible, policable, or sane. Outside, auto is fine, indoors, why not just use semi? you can pull the trigger three times if you like.

'pulling the trigger for a second or less' In most stock guns, is 15 rounds, in
G&ps, thats 25... upgraded gun? 30 or so. see my point?

Like the rules on the whole, Agree with your ideas


Goodlad: too hard to police, and would lead to arguments. 'full auto for supression' yet not on people is impossible to look after. you can supress with semi auto.... heck ive supressed a position with a pistol before, its entirely doable, so no real reason to allow it (and too many NOT to.) That make sense?

Thanks for the opinons, on the bang kill issue I've seen it several times and a lot of sites where someone offers a bang kill, the other person decides not to take it and shoot the one who offered it who then flips out (I f-n offered you a bang kill and so on) even though its always explained not to freak out and can lead to bad feelings which can overflow throughout the day but I what you saying, I always say about the knife kill that if you be polite you may be able to expect politness back.

On the burst fire rule we would have to hope for a bit of common sense because I disagree with single fire the whole time because gameplay can be boring and when moving up a heavily defended corridor (or open warehouse space) it can be hard to move through when on single fire and hence gameplay can be slow and boring.

@Gary mate, sure a couple of burst fire rounds (when the enemy pops out) can be substituted for full auto and can be more enjoyable because of the dislpay of skill. See above for explanation of burst fire

@Arkslippy I agree in principal but in practice it doesn't work out like that, people (sometimes accidently) go overboard and this can cause arguments

Decoy

I've got to agree with FK, as much as I enjoyed playing OB I never understood why full auto was allowed, semi is more than enough to make the 'kill' and will lend itself to better engagements AND better relationships between the two sides as no one is going to be overkilled.

I would also fully support any rule that says you leave everything where it is, it made no sense to me to allow players to move whatever wasn't nailed down to facilitate their movement, block doors, etc.

Bang kill just doesn't work in such an enclosed environment, a single BB to the chest wosn't cause any issues

I think you would find a bigger crowd would support you on a regular basis if these changes were implemented, I can guarantee I will be there more often

Keegan

Honestly aside from personal saftey semi offers (although personally I've no issues with charging a room against full auto fire but that's me) a lot of people will feel their kit is safer, i/e vest zips, pocket clips, belts, optics, torches etc

Airsoft Reloded

Decoy wrote: »

I've got to agree with FK, as much as I enjoyed playing OB I never understood why full auto was allowed, semi is more than enough to make the 'kill' and will lend itself to better engagements AND better relationships between the two sides as no one is going to be overkilled.

I would also fully support any rule that says you leave everything where it is, it made no sense to me to allow players to move whatever wasn't nailed down to facilitate their movement, block doors, etc.

Bang kill just doesn't work in such an enclosed environment, a single BB to the chest wosn't cause any issues

I think you would find a bigger crowd would support you on a regular basis if these changes were implemented, I can guarantee I will be there more often

We have been floating the idea of a no moving cover rule (just to make it easier on ourselves to be honest) but at the same time A LOT of people like love that rule and I would be one of them. Moving cover is a realistice response to being fired at.

Also blocking doors has always been against the rules, if someone is cought doing it they may face being asked to leave or step out of the game e.t.c

Airsoft Reloded

Keegan wrote: »

Honestly aside from personal saftey semi offers (although personally I've no issues with charging a room against full auto fire but that's me) a lot of people will feel their kit is safer, i/e vest zips, pocket clips, belts, optics, torches etc

Fair point, I've had a few jacket zips wrecked by bb fire too. I never even thought about that aspect, thanks

fayer

Love the no full auto rule. Perfect for your site.

I see the burst thing being an issue, very hard to mesure / enforce. Personally I am very much a single shot player, but run 11.1V 1 sec burst for me is 25BB's so could never use it.

Airsoft Reloded

fayer wrote: »

Love the no full auto rule. Perfect for your site.

I see the burst thing being an issue, very hard to mesure / enforce. Personally I am very much a single shot player, but run 11.1V 1 sec burst for me is 25BB's so could never use it.

Thats the exact issue you get when you speak about considering the idea, why did I get my gun uprgaded to **** only to have to fire on single?

I would be half way there between yourself and our regulars, averagely when I am taking someone on I will fire single fire at them but every now and then a burst is called for (trying to scare the oppostion so they don't breach the room, several enemies coming towards you e.t.c)

Firekitten

My first site was an old pot factory... In the safety brief, the site owner would say "No moving the bloody furnature, You're not on fookin Changing rooms!"
Moving the cover is cheeky. Its not real warfare, it doesnt matter that much, be a good sport, and run faster!

As to the many 'ah well use common sense' conclusions here... sadly, you have to play to the lowest common demominator.... Make airsoft as fool proof for the stupidest, most unsporting bugger there.... Sure, if we trusted everyone, we could say;
'4 rounds to the torso, one to the head, auto untill you can see the whites of thier eyes and take the sofa with you!' But in reality, its not that simple.
Cheating, cheatcalling, and unsporting antics will always happen, and it happens far MORE often with the 'win' attitude that seems prevelant in Ireland.

goodlad

Yeah man i see the point about full auto.
Even with bursts i guess it will depend on the players gun.

I suppose its the same as it always was even when full auto was allowed in the case of upgraded guns, as in just tell people to not be a ****ing dick about riddling someone.

There will be times someone appears from nowhere and they get a burst at close range, its bound to happen. But as long as people dont go nuts and do that **** on purpose i dont see a problem.

Airsoft Reloded

Firekitten wrote: »

My first site was an old pot factory... In the safety brief, the site owner would say "No moving the bloody furnature, You're not on fookin Changing rooms!"
Moving the cover is cheeky. Its not real warfare, it doesnt matter that much, be a good sport, and run faster!

As to the many 'ah well use common sense' conclusions here... sadly, you have to play to the lowest common demominator.... Make airsoft as fool proof for the stupidest, most unsporting bugger there.... Sure, if we trusted everyone, we could say;
'4 rounds to the torso, one to the head, auto untill you can see the whites of thier eyes and take the sofa with you!' But in reality, its not that simple.
Cheating, cheatcalling, and unsporting antics will always happen, and it happens far MORE often with the 'win' attitude that seems prevelant in Ireland.

Thats a fair point and the moveable cover thing is on the cards to change but I think the burst fire rule could work (we will be giving demonstrations in the safety brief to avoid confusion on the subject) and will lead to more action packed and fun games, sometimes a little bit of realism has to give way for a bit of fun no?

Firekitten

Sure, I understand what you mean, and Ithink its worth trialing, i'm just not sure people will be able to stick to it very well... As for swapping realism for fun... well, My local cqb site is a 5 storey office complex, and its strictly semi only. Honestly, you dont lose any fun, or notice.... you can still supress targets, have all out firefights, and they last longer like your ammo! Perhaps try a game using it, or two, and see what happens? Infact I'd recomend you do that with most of hte ideas you're thinking about (the gameplay dynamics ones not safety) to see how players react, feel, and cope with them...?

Villafan6

I personally don't mind using full auto in fact I prefer it but I understand it being taken out.

However movable cover has got to be one of my favourite parts of the site. I just think it adds a new aspect to the game.

Anyway good luck, I'll be down in a while to try out the new rules

Firekitten

Out of curiosity, why do you 'prefer' full auto?

TheDoc

Airsoft Reloded wrote: »

Thats the exact issue you get when you speak about considering the idea, why did I get my gun uprgaded to **** only to have to fire on single?

I would be half way there between yourself and our regulars, averagely when I am taking someone on I will fire single fire at them but every now and then a burst is called for (trying to scare the oppostion so they don't breach the room, several enemies coming towards you e.t.c)

I'd be in favour of the semi/burst rule.

Its the one thing that literally stops me coming to your site more often to be honest, playerbase is cool, yous are sound lads and its a great sight.

But there is no opportunity to manouvre up corridors with lads lashing down hicaps onto your position.

With semi auto fire you can atleast get a chance to return fire and make some manouvres.

I think dont think full auto is more fun then semi in fairness. I dont think its fun at all sitting at a corner going asleep waiting for someone to finish their 500 rounds, so I can lash 500 more back, and we continue on till the whistle blows or one of us move to another corner, to lash out another 500 bb's.

Its mostly my opinion though, theres players out there who jizz for 30 rpm and who think your a bender if you dont go full auto with hicaps.

You could also adopt a Red Barn approach. They incororate some semi auto games in the day aswell as the regular full auto games. Now I do LOL when they announce it cause most of the playerbase shout " gay" "bent" etc, but the semi games are always ten times better and everyone agreers.

What I would say is fair play for looking to shake things up and trial some differing gamestyles and stuff, innovative as always.

Firekitten

What's 'gay' about semi auto? *blink* What's bad about picking targets, conserving ammo, and fighting with actual tactics? (I know you dont think it is doc, im not saying it at you).... If you want to spray things, go take up street art. I fully agree with doc, Hicaps, and cqb, and auto, are a BIG BIG mistake.... it makes games nearly unplayable.

While I agree, fun is a vital element Airsoft Reloaded, Consider the fun people would have if firefights were more dynamic, and free flowing.... not as doc says, 'corner to corner, pissing bbs at eachother' Which turns games into giant mag soeed UNloaders.

Villafan6

I don't know maybe it's the covering fire, I really don't know I just like full auto when I play in the OB.

It's strange when I play outdoor i prefer semi but for some reason I just like full auto when I play in the OB.

I'm not saying I'll hold down the trigger for an hour I just don't want someone getting angry because if I burst fire and get off 5 shots by accident and he gets annoyed

Firekitten

bingo, accidents happen, and its inevitable it would cause fights imo. I use both semi and full, so don't think im the safety brigade.... I just find more tactically viable for cqb Airsoft.

Gameplay is more fluid and dynamic, less injuries, less overkill, and less arguments imo. Full auto for big rooms, semi for coridors and stairwells? Easy to police, provides a happy medium?

Villafan6

Yes it's a good idea buy what will be viable as a big room were full auto is allowed? Would that not be confusing and possibly lead to fights?

Airsoft Reloded

Firekitten wrote: »

Sure, I understand what you mean, and Ithink its worth trialing, i'm just not sure people will be able to stick to it very well... As for swapping realism for fun... well, My local cqb site is a 5 storey office complex, and its strictly semi only. Honestly, you dont lose any fun, or notice.... you can still supress targets, have all out firefights, and they last longer like your ammo! Perhaps try a game using it, or two, and see what happens? Infact I'd recomend you do that with most of hte ideas you're thinking about (the gameplay dynamics ones not safety) to see how players react, feel, and cope with them...?

I will, we'll desgin one or two of our games with the single fire difference and how where it leads us . Thanks again for the input.

TheDoc wrote: »

I'd be in favour of the semi/burst rule.

Its the one thing that literally stops me coming to your site more often to be honest, playerbase is cool, yous are sound lads and its a great sight.

But there is no opportunity to manouvre up corridors with lads lashing down hicaps onto your position.

With semi auto fire you can atleast get a chance to return fire and make some manouvres.

I think dont think full auto is more fun then semi in fairness. I dont think its fun at all sitting at a corner going asleep waiting for someone to finish their 500 rounds, so I can lash 500 more back, and we continue on till the whistle blows or one of us move to another corner, to lash out another 500 bb's.

Its mostly my opinion though, theres players out there who jizz for 30 rpm and who think your a bender if you dont go full auto with hicaps.

You could also adopt a Red Barn approach. They incororate some semi auto games in the day aswell as the regular full auto games. Now I do LOL when they announce it cause most of the playerbase shout " gay" "bent" etc, but the semi games are always ten times better and everyone agreers.

What I would say is fair play for looking to shake things up and trial some differing gamestyles and stuff, innovative as always.

Thanks Doc, I know thats what keeps you away dude but again thanks for saying. We are simply facing reallity mate, Adam and myself have noticed lately that even play with single 90% of the time and I think it can be denied that it seems to be the natural evolution of airsoft when you look abroad.

I think I'd do seperate rules during the day because when you have noobs there I think your bound to get hastle (it must work in the barn obviously), we get a lot of noobs through the door on Saturdays in particular so it may cause confusion ya know.

Firekitten wrote: »

bingo, accidents happen, and its inevitable it would cause fights imo. I use both semi and full, so don't think im the safety brigade.... I just find more tactically viable for cqb Airsoft.

Gameplay is more fluid and dynamic, less injuries, less overkill, and less arguments imo. Full auto for big rooms, semi for coridors and stairwells? Easy to police, provides a happy medium?

I think Villafan was taken up wrong there, he means surpression fire not needless full auto. I see what he is saying, sometimes a bit of shock and awe kind of fire can be cool.

In terms of what you said above though I think you would be better off with full in the corridors and single in rooms but again full auto is out. What I may do is burst in corridors and single in rooms and on stairs? This would alleviate the difficulty in marshalling it I think (or atleast aid a little)

We will play the cover rule by ear on the day according to who is present I think because its a hard one to call, 99% of our customers love that rule and it is one of the reasons we have people who have only played with us for almost 3 years now. We should be decent to them first and foremost I think, truth be told the cover isn't moved that much anyway. A lot of the cover that was in the corridors has been removed anyway.

What do you think about grenades? Our current rule is that if it goes off in the room your in then you are dead wether a bb hits you or wether you are behind cover or not. If it goes off within 10 ft of you in the corrider you are dead and you must throw it using an under arm throw to avoid hitting people etc...

J.D.R

I know I may be in the huge minority here, but I personally loved the fact the site had full auto allowed.

Not because I hate single shot or love riddling people, but I loved the aspect of hesitating of going into a room where a person might be in case I get shot to bits the second I enter.

It may sound childish, but I always found gameplay in the OB to be more realistic with people taking less risks sticking their heads out like they would in other sites. On this issue, I find it supports team involvement when the only way to make progress is to work as a team.

Not saying that semi doesn't have it's own tactical aspects, I'm just trying to play devils advocate and say full auto has perks aswell, at least in the OB

rossla

Is this no overarm grenade throws or no full auto and no kicking doors anything to do the fact its April fools day???:)

J.D.R

If this is, I feel it should be pointed out, April fools ends at 12 mid day. Tut tut is all I have to say

NakedDex

J.D.R wrote: »

I know I may be in the huge minority here, but I personally loved the fact the site had full auto allowed.

Not because I hate single shot or love riddling people, but I loved the aspect of hesitating of going into a room where a person might be in case I get shot to bits the second I enter.

Apart from pain, what's the difference between hesitating from entering a room where there's a chance you'll get hit with thirty rounds, and one where you'll get hit with three?
Full auto has a place, but it's not indoors. Burst is more than enough. A lot of dedicated CQB fans have rifles tailored to CQB use, including using a MOSFET to change the auto function to burst for use indoors.

Betty Blue

Hey Brian
Single / Semi is the Way forward When Playing in a Close Environment, its Hard to Move, When Everyone's on full Auto. Single / Semi Make's for Better Skill in Playing

Just my 2cent

Airsoft Reloded

J.D.R wrote: »

I know I may be in the huge minority here, but I personally loved the fact the site had full auto allowed.

Not because I hate single shot or love riddling people, but I loved the aspect of hesitating of going into a room where a person might be in case I get shot to bits the second I enter.

It may sound childish, but I always found gameplay in the OB to be more realistic with people taking less risks sticking their heads out like they would in other sites. On this issue, I find it supports team involvement when the only way to make progress is to work as a team.

Not saying that semi doesn't have it's own tactical aspects, I'm just trying to play devils advocate and say full auto has perks aswell, at least in the OB

I understand but again burt fire does the exact same job, if someone needlessly riddled me I would be annoyed (as would anyone) but I don't mind getting a few shots to the side of the head for not watch my flank which is I guess the realistic thing your talking about. Your not at all in the minority mate, we've built an entire cache of regulars over the years by sticking to our rules.

rossla wrote: »

Is this no overarm grenade throws or no full auto and no kicking doors anything to do the fact its April fools day???:)

I afraid not dude, a few of these changes have in place for a while now dude but again I've never seen you just shooting away.

For all of our regulars that are emailing and pming about this you must understand that the vast majority of you never really use full auto anyway, if your just sitting there shooting full auto at the wall for ages then your not really playing the game.

Burst fire is just as effective as full auto, I always use bursts when moving up corridors and I whack most of you most of the time :cool: I will assure you though that we will not be going single fire only becuase we also disagree with the logic behind the argument thats its a more skillfull way of play.

J.D.R

NakedDex wrote: »

Apart from pain, what's the difference between hesitating from entering a room where there's a chance you'll get hit with thirty rounds, and one where you'll get hit with three?
Full auto has a place, but it's not indoors. Burst is more than enough. A lot of dedicated CQB fans have rifles tailored to CQB use, including using a MOSFET to change the auto function to burst for use indoors.

Without being flippant, because believe me I am trying my best not to sound like a complete prick, but it is the pain that makes me hesitate anyway.

I do agree with overkill being a serious problem with no limit on FA, but pain is a serious motivator to think about your actions, which is why I think burst fire should be allowed.

Airsoft Reloded

J.D.R wrote: »

Without being flippant, because believe me I am trying my best not to sound like a complete prick, but it is the pain that makes me hesitate anyway.

I do agree with overkill being a serious problem with no limit on FA, but pain is a serious motivator to think about your actions, which is why I think burst fire should be allowed.

Burst is allowed dude, lets not let it decend into tit for tat. Your point stands I think

NakedDex

Burst fire is allowed, it's just full auto that's being curtailed. It's one thing to turn a corner and take ten to the chest while running, but there's always those who think sitting on the trigger on auto to deny a corridor is playing the game. If that's playing the game, then I can train a tactical cable-tie to take over my position while I feck off for ice cream.
I'm totally on the page about bursts being a legitimate part though.

J.D.R

My apologies lads, I misunderstood

TheDoc

J.D.R wrote: »

If this is, I feel it should be pointed out, April fools ends at 12 mid day. Tut tut is all I have to say

As much as it might be, it still brings some niteresting conversation.

I'm not bringing in any "elitism" or ****e like that, there is definitly pros and cons to both aspects. It is very much down to personal preference.

My opinion would be that with such a smaller and narrow playing space, full auto is just excessive and removes the exact thing indoor sites promote.

The bit by bit movement in between cover and moving room to room.

Like for example anytime there is a stairway stand off its just a nightmare and I get the whole " whats the points" buzz. If I'm at the top of the stairs, on full auto, and let someone get up in the end I need to accept I'm **** and I should stop playing the game.

Airsoft Reloded

TheDoc wrote: »

As much as it might be, it still brings some niteresting conversation.

I'm not bringing in any "elitism" or ****e like that, there is definitly pros and cons to both aspects. It is very much down to personal preference.

My opinion would be that with such a smaller and narrow playing space, full auto is just excessive and removes the exact thing indoor sites promote.

The bit by bit movement in between cover and moving room to room.

Like for example anytime there is a stairway stand off its just a nightmare and I get the whole " whats the points" buzz. If I'm at the top of the stairs, on full auto, and let someone get up in the end I need to accept I'm **** and I should stop playing the game.

You were never allowed to go full auto on the stairs dude, the movement still happens but you sometimes had to match rate of fire with the defender.

I always looked at using full auto as normal airsoft on hard because you could choose to stay single fire while your opponents out gunned you so you had to display an enormous amount of skill to break though but thats just me.

A lot of people aren't up for that type of play and we would like to help facilitate the growth of milsim and more real world based games in the country instead of people having to go abroad for what they want.

Arkslippy

I think the argument that someone has paid extra to pimp a gun and should get consideration for that is complete cockerel.

that's like saying that because I have a ferrari that can do 190mph that I should be allowed to drive faster.

Brian, overall it depends on what angle you are considering this from, if its a health and safety point of view, you are the owner and you are ultimately responsible for what happens at the ob. I think you are correct to put the changes in as you have outlined to make it work whichever way you want.

if its about gameplay I think a ban on auto for a night would offer some interesting changes in the play. I've played games where one contrary bastard (you usually) has held off an entire group for. long periods on single fire from a good location.

on the burst side of things, what's wrong with rapidly pulling the trigger 3 times on semi to create a burst. if you pull the trigger for a second and fire 30 bbs, that's not burst fire, that's someone getting a lot of pain close up.

I know a lot of regular hardcore players may think its soft or gay or whatever to restrict full auto high rof fire, but at at the end of the day, of someone loses an eye or assaults someone who drills them, then the hardcore players will be of feck all use when you are being held responsible.

and people may give out and say I'm wrong with waivers signed and insurance and all that but I believe that its not worth a piss if it were challenged and its on your head it falls and I'd hate to see that.

the waiver or insurance is for responsible behaviour and is as much value as the sign in a supermarket carpark that says the management take no responsibility ect.

Inari

Hmmm...this is certainly an interesting discussion.

I'll start with the easy stuff; over-arm grenade throws - definitely a good idea to get rid of. Why? Well, it's twofold...A) it's an indoor site...that throw achieves NOTHING except of course, hitting the roof, and "Where's my Thunder B?"
It makes more sense to me that underarm throws are allowed - it'll be a pain to enforce though.

Kicking in Doors...expensive. I'll be brutally honest on this one guys; I don't think you have the full potential tapped on the Office Block site - I think if it retained more of an office feel you could get much more out of the site. It would require cleaning up, fixing things up, putting folders etc neat and tidy...but I really do think it would add so much to the site. It would add more realism to the Terrorist style of things...more scenario orientated play. Kicking in doors is dangerous, but realistic. It's a tough call...personally if it were my site, I wouldn't risk it.

Semi Auto V Full Auto...I am in two minds about this. Being hosed is never fun, and semi is my own personal choice...but it is just that; a personal choice. Burst fire is definitely the way to go for happy medium, but would be a bitch to enforce. I'm not even remotely sure how you could go about it.

Moving cover...once again, dangerous, but very fun. It's a great addition to the site, and I think if paired with the renovating side of things (i.e. keeping it looking like an office building) you could really get some serious stuff going...but, and there's always a but, the cost is high. Having to clean up, fix up, and repair stuff constantly would put serious strain on the finances I would say.

Cool Breeze

I love your site. I always have. I always will.
I support your changes 100%.
I think it's awesome that you guys are constantly thinking about how to make the experience better. This is prevalent on the day, in your posts and whenever I speak with you.

See you tomorrow.
:cool:

PS: this is a cool discussion. It's good to see so many players sharing valid opinions.

NakedDex

Arkslippy wrote: »

I think the argument that someone has paid extra to pimp a gun and should get consideration for that is complete cockerel.

that's like saying that because I have a ferrari that can do 190mph that I should be allowed to drive faster.

Just for the record, that's not even ballpark what I meant. When I mentioned players having rifles specifically customised for CQB, I was just using that as an example of people considering burst fire a better option than full auto in such environments.

It, in no way, is an endorsment of exclusivity or elitism. Just pointing out that burst is often considered the more useful option by the people who engage in it that style of play most often.

goodlad

I was gonna post again earlier but decided to chill out and have a think about the actual games played in the office and how the new rules would effect them.

For the full auto, i agree with you on putting a stop to it.
However as you said in your safety brief last sunday about it, just dont be holding down the trigger like a mad man.

Sure some people will hold it for half a second, others might hold it for a second. I guess it will depend on the player and the curcumstances.

But as a general rule, just tell people to not be using full auto.
And tell tem that being a dickhead about burst firing and switch to single shot if you are about to move into a corridore and you suspect enemy players are in the neighbouring rooms.

I think the key to people not doing stupid **** with burst fire at close range is them being conscious of what bloody setting their gun is on. Ive had situations myself where it was on auto and someong frightened the crap outa me and i riddled them, where as i should of been more conscious of what setting my gun was on.

With regards to moving around furniture, i think thats part of the fun of the site. As you said yourself, screw realism for fun somethimes.

Sure you have several pieces of furniture taped and they are not to be moved, so there isnt exactly all that much that can be moved.
Its not like the old days when we play protocol and we put 2 cabinets up completely blocking the door of the through room and then lined up the rest to make the corridore impossible to break, lol

So yeah,i think leaving some of the furniture free t move would be best imo.

Now, on the kicking doors. I understand why you put a stop to that.
Sure keogh kicked in a door last year that i was standing behind (the door was locked). I ended up getting the handle into my lower back which was ****ing agony for about a week. There is no need for risks like that on the site.

BUT, that was a circumstance when a locked door was kicked in. In general i think it could be good to allow doors to be kicked in but advise people to not stand behind doors or try block them.

In general i think the new rules will make the site more fun.
It will hopefully put a stop to ****ing stair wars lasting forever and people just giving up on that game.

Firekitten

rossla wrote: »

Is this no overarm grenade throws or no full auto and no kicking doors anything to do the fact its April fools day???:)

I... Really hope THIS is an april fools... Those are just safety issues (well not full auto)

Perhaps to clarify, and sorry to Airsoft Reloaded for jumping in, No Door kicking, is A, not to damage the site, and B, what if someone is stood behind it? crowched? a kid? you could seriously hurt them. Same with overarm grenade throughs.

Think about it guys, its airsoft, not war, you get hit on the noggin by a door or a grenade, paracetamol aint going to cut it

Ark: Agree in principal, but dex has a point.

I say go for trials on burst Reloaded, id like to see how it works

Arkslippy

NakedDex wrote: »

Just for the record, that's not even ballpark what I meant. When I mentioned players having rifles specifically customised for CQB, I was just using that as an example of people considering burst fire a better option than full auto in such environments.

It, in no way, is an endorsment of exclusivity or elitism. Just pointing out that burst is often considered the more useful option by the people who engage in it that style of play most often.

I wasn't referring to your post directly dex, just offering my opinion on the issue of hi rof and it is my stated opinion.

I have a 11.1 but I wouldn't bring it to the block as it generates too high an impact on a Target.

goodlad

Arkslippy wrote: »

I wasn't referring to your post directly dex, just offering my opinion on the issue of hi rof and it is my stated opinion.

I have a 11.1 but I wouldn't bring it to the block as it generates too high an impact on a Target.

Same dude, ive 2x vfc guns. Both are made to take 11.1 but i just run em on a 9.6. Its more than enough! Hell my heavy scar running on a 9.6 took out a riot shield

Airsoft Reloded

There are to many posts to quote there so I'll respond in general.

Firstly just to clarify, you have never been allowed to block doors with cover (I assume you mean't place the tables infront of the door so you can't get shot from the other end of the corridor Gar?).

You have never been allowed to throw grenades with an over arm throw (that rule was made when we first opened the warehouse like 3 years ago or something).

@Inari on the issue of moving cover there has never been an issue with it that I can think of (other than some people new to the site not liking it, but you can't please everyone).

In terms of keeping the place looking like an office block you have to be realistic man, I'm not having a go at you but try working there for a couple of days and you would see how impossible that is when you take into account that you get people just emptying draws onto the ground and such.

The best way we could think to deal with it was to remove all paper from the site (which was done ages ago), we have been broken into and the place has been smashed up so many times that the "look" is out of our control and to replace every carpet or door in the building would cost a rediculous fortune and render the place pointless.

Also to be honest when people are playing there they rarely care about aesthetics while under fire and sure there are holes in the walls for people to get through which isn't normally a feature when in an office. We aim for fun when it comes to all that but thanks for the ideas mate.

Just to note people can we try to keep the conversation directed at the issues at hand and not my (or any) site, all suggestions are welcome but should be directed towards our own thread

goodlad

Airsoft Reloded wrote: »

Firstly just to clarify, you have never been allowed to block doors with cover (I assume you mean't place the tables infront of the door so you can't get shot from the other end of the corridor Gar?).

Em... i would prefer not to answer that. Lets just say we didnt do it a second time

Hmmm im looking forward to playing again with the full auto gone.
I think it will make a lot of the games seem like whole new games to people instead of the "" Oh we have played here loads of times, just stand at X points and lash down full auto cover till the time runs out and we win""

Airsoft Reloded

goodlad wrote: »

Em... i would prefer not to answer that. Lets just say we didnt do it a second time

Hmmm im looking forward to playing again with the full auto gone.
I think it will make a lot of the games seem like whole new games to people instead of the "" Oh we have played here loads of times, just stand at X points and lash down full auto cover till the time runs out and we win""

You wouldn't be able to do that if I were attacking :cool: but seriously thats why we are doing it dude, so everyone can achieve the insurmountable task of getting up the corridor :pac:

Gatling

Milsim/semi auto games would be class ,for me bursting into a room/corridor full auto isn't realistic tacticaly unless your playing a computer game,that's me though,semi /burst games tend to be less hassle to all concerned , but time and time again you have semi only you always get 2-3 who don't get the message easily dealth with though ,moveable furniture I'm only 50 /50 on the idea i don't think anything over waist height should be allowed be moved by anybody other than marshals or site operators outside of game time , every body will have an opinion some will want to see change others won't yourselfs will know what will and won't work ,you already have the foundation for a superb site

se conman

I have played your site under your marshaling guidance and against you as players , you know your players , your site and what works best for your players.I fully trust YOUR judgement and will return regardless of any rule changes.

Airsoft Reloded

Gatling wrote: »

Milsim/semi auto games would be class ,for me bursting into a room/corridor full auto isn't realistic tacticaly unless your playing a computer game,that's me though,semi /burst games tend to be less hassle to all concerned , but time and time again you have semi only you always get 2-3 who don't get the message easily dealth with though ,moveable furniture I'm only 50 /50 on the idea i don't think anything over waist height should be allowed be moved by anybody other than marshals or site operators outside of game time , every body will have an opinion some will want to see change others won't yourselfs will know what will and won't work ,you already have the foundation for a superb site

I'd look at it as a superb site already but I understand that a few airsofters (especially boardsofters) like a bit of single fire.

se conman wrote: »

I have played your site under your marshaling guidance and against you as players , you know your players , your site and what works best for your players.I fully trust YOUR judgement and will return regardless of any rule changes.

Nice one man, I know we do well as is and its great to get so many mails and comments saying that too. I think it wouldn't be any harm in a little bit of a change every now and then, I'd say it will make the event a little bit different too

Inari

@Brian: I do appreciate that there has been a lot of damage done to the site, and as I said, keeping it looking like an actual office would take serious money. I just made the point because it was something I had thought of in the past i.e. "Damn...this would make a fantastic milsim - Office building laid seige to, and a strike team eventually getting the go ahead.

I fully acknowledge that it is not viable to do so...but I had thought of it, and I figured its better to toss it out there, should there be something you could do with the idea.

One thing I have always liked about the Office Block is how organic the whole affair is...there aren't many hard and fast rules, which really helps immersing yourself in the game. The flip side is of course that there is probably a lot of arguments that could be avoided with more hard and fast rules.

As usual though, I love the fact that you guys actually try and get community feedback into your site - really good to see

Gatling

Easier to explain in person ,