Front Tyre Stuck in Dublin Luas Track - has this happened to anyone else?

MurrayMint

Hi,

My front tyre got stuck in the luas track when I was crossing it last Friday. The bike stopped dead; I landed on my face, smashing all my front teeth, badly dislocated my left shoulder and have a break in my arm. My first accident on a bike and it's been such a nightmare.

I won't know the extent of the damage that's been caused for some time.
I've been looking online at the warnings for bikes on the luas tracks - there isn't much. I'm trying to get numbers together of people who have also gotten stuck to be see if I have a case. I need to able to demonstrate that there is a danger there; it's happened before and people need to be warned.

Everything is going to cost me a small fortune to get fixed. If I can't get compensation for it I'd at least like to have brought into effect better warnings for cyclists on Dublin luas lines.

If any one has a story or knows of someone please, please contact me.

Thank you,

Ingrid

coolbeans

...but, it's a tram system, a really obvious tram system. Isn't it common knowledge that trams use tracks? How were you not aware of this? I know this is harsh but you should have known that a bike wheel and tram rails make poor bed fellows. How you think you are not at fault for this is beyond me.

PS: I am sorry to hear of your injuries.

Jawgap

Yes it happened to me, but I'm not sure my story would help.

Just before the lines opened there were ads and signs up warning cyclists not to cycle close and parallel to the tracks. At the time I was using a mountain bike with fairly chunky tyres and thought they'd never fit in the track. I decided to test the theory and found they did and over the handlebars I went- thankfully it was only a few bruises nothing as bad as your injuries.

Since then I've seen two accidents (one involving a DB) but both affairs were fairly low speed and the riders were dusted up and bruised rather than bloodied and injured.

Hope you're feeling better soon and make a full recovery.

blorg

Sorry to hear about your accident, but I doubt you would have much of a case. Your best bet is probably to consult with a solicitor on a no win, no fee basis, who could advise. Note that if you lose a case, even on a no win, no fee basis, you can be liable for the other party's legal costs (which could be substantial.)

Dublin Cycling Campaign have also been involved and may have a record of accidents on the tracks so maybe contact them to find out what has happened in other cases.

This is the warning sign for cyclists, was it there?

MurrayMint

I've cycled for years and never had anything happen before. I crossed them at a 45 degree angle - or so I thought. With so many people on bikes these days I'd like it if they could put better warning signs up / ban cyclists altogether. The comment in James hospital was "another Luas victim" Surely that's not right?

If that stops this happening to other people is it not worth it?

langdang

Sorry to hear about your teeth, other stuff fixes easy and cheap enough but teeth are a bugger...... BUT....
a) Don't think you will get or deserve compo for this
b) There are certain obvious hazards on our roads, tram/train lines being one of them. I am very much anti nanny-state extreme H&S stuff, I really think the consequences of cycling in such a way that your wheel would drop into a hole like that are obvious and easily avoidable.
Sorry to be harsh like...

Lumen

Teeth damage is a right PITA, and can be expensive to get fixed. I knocked all my front ones out as a teenager, but luckily none were actually broken and my braces held them all together like a gruesome set of living dentures and they set back in fine.

I had thought that cyclists were not allowed along those tracks, perhaps I'm wrong. Crossing them at right angles is obviously OK.

There are lots of cities with a much greater tram infrastructure than Dublin, so I'm not sure that making them whatever-proof is the right way to go.

MurrayMint

Thanks - I'll check out Dublin Cycling Campaign. It's not money that has me looking into this - I've always paid my way - pay my taxes and I've never signed for any benefits. It's hearing about how many other people this has happened to and making it safer that's the issue. I'm sure the hospitals would be happier if they'd less people to treat if cyclists where to stay off the tracks altogether.

el tel

Sorry to hear about your accident, your injuries sound terrible.

I would think the duty of care owed by the luas operators only goes so far and probably not to the extent that they'd be liable for bikes getting caught in the tracks. If that were the case there wouldnt be a tram line or level crossing in the country.

Personally I try to cross lines at closer to 90 deg. where possible as 45 leaves little room for error for example if the line is wet or if you have to adjust your steering for some reason.

Though sometimes falling off is the lesser of two evils. Imagine getting both wheels stuck and having to ride all they way to Tallagh to get free :eek:

opinion guy

Wasn't a cyclist killed by a luas after getting stuck in the tracks a few months back ?

TinyExplosions

Losing teeth suck (ba doom tish!) I had my front ones knocked out a couple years ago coming off at a roundabout and the expense and number of trips to the dentist wasn't fun at all.

I've also come off a couple of times on the LUAS tracks, most recent being late on a Friday night a couple of weeks ago (I'll let you speculate on what was the main contributor to that crash), and while I think caution is needed around them, most of the other posters on this thread are correct -it's an obvious danger that doesn't really need much signpostage.

Sorry to hear about the accident though, hope everything heals ok

Chips Lovell

I work next to the Luas line on Harcourt St. You wouldn't believe how many people I've seen going down there.

Where did you come off OP?

MurrayMint

Thanks - I appreciate peoples thoughts on this

el Bastardo

Yep, happened to me too a few years ago on one of the very few times I've been cycling around Dublin city. Had a mountain bike with slicks and while crossing the tracks at an angle, I somehow lodged the front tyre in the track but kept moving (in a verrry straight line). I managed to maintain balance for long enough to brake a bit and jump off (before falling off).

MurrayMint

I came off at Harcourt Street by D2 nightclub. Since it happened there seems to be someone who knows someone who has done the same thing.

Chips Lovell

You do know you're not meant to cycle up Harcourt Street along the tracks?

kdobey

What an unfortunate accident - and on the 1st of April too !! Wow!

manwithaplan

If this is something that happens a lot (and it appears to be), I think it merits some sort of response by the authorities. There is unlikely to be any engineering solution to this that isn't either unpractical or prohibitively expensive. This means the options are limited to regulation (ban cyclists away from streets with Luas tracks or something), awareness raising and public information or increased signage. I don't favour the first of those options. I know the Luas operators went on a charm offensive with cyclists when it opened. While the effect would probably be marginal, maybe it would be worth renewing that effort and having another look at the signs.

nerraw1111

Cyclist's are not allowed cycle on the tram lines. Do you actually need a sign to tell you that?

Just as well you weren't killed as you would've been up for a Darwin Award.

I was pulled over by a motorbike Garda while cycling on the tram lines. After asking me if I was tram, he then told me to get off the tram lines. I knew the risks, i.e. avoid the massive tram lines.

TinyExplosions

nerraw1111 wrote: »

Cyclist's are not allowed cycle on the tram lines. Do you actually need a sign to tell you that?

Just as well you weren't killed as you would've been up for a Darwin Award.

I was pulled over by a motorbike Garda while cycling on the tram lines. After asking me if I was tram, he then told me to get off the tram lines. I knew the risks, i.e. avoid the massive tram lines.

It depends where you are... there are some streets that it is perfectly legal to cycle along the tram lines -for example along Steeven's Lane if you want access to St Patrick's hospital, Benburb St etc etc

opinion guy

nerraw1111 wrote: »

After asking me if I was tram, he then told me to get off the tram lines.

Brilliant!:D

Lumen

TinyExplosions wrote: »

It depends where you are... there are some streets that it is perfectly legal to cycle along the tram lines -for example along Steeven's Lane if you want access to St Patrick's hospital, Benburb St etc etc

There must be an amazing number of cyclists needing access to St Patrick's hospital, given the amount of traffic. How ironic...

steve9859

Sorry for the OP (Ive bashed my teeth before and its not good), but I dont think there are any grounds for compensation. that would be nanny state gone mad!

Where the Luas lines are dedicated to the Luas (ie. not part of the road, such as from Heuston to Connolly stations), cycles are not allowed on them. You take your chance.

Where they are part of a road, and a cycle would be required to cross the track at less than 45, maye 60, degrees, cycles will be directed away on a route which will cross then them at greater than 45 degrees. Outside of St James' hospital travelling west is a good example - a cycle lane takes you away from the track for a few metres to a safer crossing point. If you continue on the road and get stuck, it would be the cyclists own fault.

And if you have to drift across them, if taking a right turn or something, I think it is only common sense to get off and push the bike. The day that we need signs to tell us to do that will be a sad day!!

alejandro1977

as part of motorcycle training/testing it's emphasised that tram/rail lines are dangerous - if there are non-perpendicular tracks you have to make an effort to increase the angle. Not because you get stuck - you'd just slide - I did my test in the US where rail lines on road are surprisingly common (in the city where I lived anyway).

When the Luas was launched there was publicity around this danger for cyclists though frankly I'd have though it was common sense, but as pointed out above cycle lanes direct cyclists away from Luas tracks.

Sorry for your misfortune OP

TinyExplosions

Lumen wrote: »

There must be an amazing number of cyclists needing access to St Patrick's hospital, given the amount of traffic. How ironic...

It is a little bit

Was just the first 'legal' part that came to mind... there's also up by St James.... hang on, is there a pattern here.... legally allowed cycle by lethal tram tracks near a hospital..... /me gets tinfoil hat

petethedrummer

nerraw1111 wrote: »

Cyclist's are not allowed cycle on the tram lines. Do you actually need a sign to tell you that?

Depends where you are. I cycle past James' hospital every morning.

A cycle lane starts beside trams lines.


No signs forbidding entry.

muckwarrior

Never mind tram lines, I think canals are the real danger! I see bikes in the canal all the time, obviously left there by victims who didn't have the benefit of a sign to tell them they couldn't cycle in it.

opinion guy

petethedrummer wrote: »

Depends where you are. I cycle past James' hospital every morning.

A cycle lane starts beside trams lines.


No signs forbidding entry.

Actually I got stuck in the rails her eone day. Managed to pop the wheel back out again but was pretty scary with a tram not to far off!

mrbike

Of all the cyclists I know, petty much everyone one has had a run in with the Luas lines. Most people are lucky and don't get badly hurt.

I've had a fall once, and I've learnt my lesson. It's pretty common knowledge how dangerous the tracks can be for cyclists.

steve9859

petethedrummer wrote: »

Depends where you are. I cycle past James' hospital every morning.

A cycle lane starts beside trams lines.


No signs forbidding entry.

That cycle lane takes you away from the tram line so you cross it at a better angle.

You are not allowed on 'dedicated' luas lines. Where the line is part of a road, that is clearly different!

Cookie_Monster

once again the comparison to Amsterdam comes to mind... however do they manage with all those lines everywhere

@muckwarrior
:pac::pac::pac:

tomasrojo

steve9859 wrote: »

Outside of St James' hospital travelling west is a good example - a cycle lane takes you away from the track for a few metres to a safer crossing point. If you continue on the road and get stuck, it would be the cyclists own fault.

That's where I got my only cycling injury where I thought it best to seek medical advice. Split the skin below my knee open. It was ok though, as it turned out. Just a tetanus shot as a precaution.

In retrospect I actually should have used the cycle lane you mention, but I didn't like it because you have to yield twice (and crane your neck around very wide angles to check for first the Luas and then cars turning into St. James'). On this occasion it was teeming rain and my wheels slipped on the very smooth Luas tracks (i.e. they didn't catch in the groove). Bike disappeared from under me and I continued Superman-style until the ground arrested my flight.

The 45 degree advice given here is not quite right. You should cross tracks at 90 degrees. Unfortnately, this is not practical outside James', unless you use the cycle lane.

Incidentally, the comment inside St. James' about "another Luas victim" is probably because there are so many falls at this junction outside St. James'. I heard one of the doctors commenting about it on the radio. Of course, his solution was to call for cyclists to wear helmets, rather than a warning sign or some kind of junction re-think. My knee would not now bear a small scar, had I heeded his advice :rolleyes:.

goldencleric

Lumen wrote: »

Teeth damage is a right PITA, and can be expensive to get fixed. I knocked all my front ones out as a teenager, but luckily none were actually broken and my braces held them all together like a gruesome set of living dentures and they set back in fine.

... here comes my breakfast again

petethedrummer

steve9859 wrote: »

That cycle lane takes you away from the tram line so you cross it at a better angle.

yes and you have to cycle along the tracks to get there.

steve9859 wrote: »

You are not allowed on 'dedicated' luas lines. Where the line is part of a road, that is clearly different!

That James' St line is part of a road. There is a about a 1.5 foot gap between the pavement and the line. Very similar to Harcourt st. The only difference being a sign telling you not to go up Harcourt St.

tomasrojo

petethedrummer wrote: »

That James' St line is part of a road. There is a about a 1.5 foot gap between the pavement and the line. Very similar to Harcourt st. The only difference being a sign telling you not to go up Harcourt St.

The difference between the two is not concerns for cyclist safety. The James' St line has to accommodate traffic, because cars could not be excluded from that road, so cyclists are implicitly allowed.

Cars could be excluded from Harcourt St and so were (and cyclists are implicitly excluded as well).

As far as I know, there are no stretches of Luas line where cars are permitted but cyclists excluded.

The Jame's St. line really is a bit tricky though, since the gap between the footpath and the tracks isn't sufficient to allow you to keep an arm's length out from the side of the road, but if you cycle between the tracks you get impatient motorists trying to muscle past you. Where you should be cycling unfortunately is where the left-hand track is.

tomasrojo

Another feature of the James' St. stretch that is interesting (bear with me, I'll stop now in a minute) is that they seem to have been more concerned than usual about collisions entering and leaving the cycle lane. They go beyond the usual Yield triangle painted on the cycle track, and put a yield sign up on a pole where the cycle lane crosses the Luas track and where it emerges at the mouth of the hospital entrance.

I was in a car with a friend who saw these signs and wondered to whom he was supposed to be yielding. It's a bit messy overall.

petethedrummer

Well non-emergency vehicles could be excluded but you'd have a fair old trek to get to the hospital if you were coming from that direction. Much like the trek you have coming from the wrong direction on harcourt st.

I've never had a car muscle past me there and I've done it countless times. I think motorists see the difficulty involved for cyclists. Its usually me being held up by a line of stationary cars.

You're right about the hospital entrance, a total disaster of a junction if you're on a bike. But sure it'll do. Put your helmet on and you'll be fine. Legacy of the 80s.

Oh and to stay on topic. I fell off on luas tracks. I was not paying attention (well, I was paying attention to a girl walking close by). Front wheel slipped on wet tracks crossing at an angle. Only my pride and my attractiveness the aforementioned girl was damaged.

BostonB

TinyExplosions wrote: »

It depends where you are... there are some streets that it is perfectly legal to cycle along the tram lines -for example along Steeven's Lane if you want access to St Patrick's hospital, Benburb St etc etc

I'd lay bets you know this isn't correct and are hoping no one else knows it!

That's sign posted as no entry etc. St Patrick's is one end of the lane, so you don't have to go down/up Steeven's Lane to access it at all. It only allows access from the top, and as the entrance to St Pats is there, you'd have no reason to cycle down the lane at all. You can't enter it from the bottom at all. I only know because I checked this out as a possible route on my commute.

tomasrojo

Again, this restriction on entry to Steeven's Lane is to prevent the lane from being used as a thoroughfare and hence to prevent cars obstructing the Luas, and the portion from which non-tram traffic is excluded is quite short, since it is meant only to be a barrier. (Well, that's not quite true; the traffic coming out of St. Patrick's has to go somewhere!)

True, you are definitely breaking the law (or regulations, whichever it is) by cycling up from John's Road West, but you certainly aren't causing any of the difficulties the law/regulation was created to prevent.

You can tell from the foregoing that I cycle that way all the time!

TinyExplosions

BostonB wrote: »

I'd lay bets you know this isn't correct and are hoping no one else knows it!

There's an entrance to the carpark half way down the lane. The sign says "Except Trams and Access", so access is legal.

see here

BostonB

Sorry to hear of the accident OP. Sounds painful. Hope you have smooth and fast recovery.

I think people would avoid tram tracks, not simply because you can get stuck in them, but because any metal surface is extremely slippy on a bike. I have noted since I started back cycling, that a lot of places I thought I could cycle I actually can't due to the signage. But that I assumed you could because you see so many cyclists in that location.

Nearly every guide to Holland, mentions avoiding tram tracks, and crossing them at an angle, or route finding away from tram routers. I assume it must be a issue, if its mentioned so often.

BostonB

TinyExplosions wrote: »

There's an entrance to the carpark half way down the lane. The sign says "Except Trams and Access", so access is legal.

see here

Only if you're accessing the car park. You said you needed to do it to access the hospital. There no remit to cycle the length of Steeven's Lane according to the signage. Which I think you were implying.

tomasrojo - I take you point, but I'm guessing its also to stop cyclists mixing with trams and tracks. Because other wise the luas line from Heuston to Abbey Street is crying out for cycle access as an alternative to the Quays.

But tbh using these Luas lanes are not that useful as the surface is dire, and the junctions are often very awkward for a cyclist. Staying on the road is usually quicker and the junctions easier.

TinyExplosions

BostonB wrote: »

Only if you're accessing the car park. You said you needed to do it to access the hospital. There no remit to cycle the length of Steeven's Lane according to the signage. Which I think you were implying.

Not in the slightest, was merely pointing out that there are places where it's legal to cycle alongside the LUAS track

penexpers

I haven't fallen on Luas tracks because I always cross them at ~90 degrees.

BostonB

TinyExplosions wrote: »

It depends where you are... there are some streets that it is perfectly legal to cycle along the tram lines -for example along Steeven's Lane if you want access to St Patrick's hospital, Benburb St etc etc

Benburb st is no access for anything other than trams between museum and temple st.

Kinda strange bikes aren't allow considering its so wide. Massive pavements etc. That said if heading out of town it not that useful either, as there no legal right turn at the bottom to head to the park direction. Quays is actually simpler, and quicker.

BostonB

TinyExplosions wrote: »

Not in the slightest, was merely pointing out that there are places where it's legal to cycle alongside the LUAS track

Fair nuff

TinyExplosions

BostonB wrote: »

Benburb st is no access for anything other than trams between museum and temple st.

Kinda strange bikes aren't allow considering its so wide. Massive pavements etc. That said if heading out of town it not that useful either, as there no legal right turn at the bottom to head to the park direction. Quays is actually simpler, and quicker.

Ah, I see what happened there.... the comma made it seem like I was saying you could use Steevens Lane to get to Benburb St, when what I meant was:

• Steeven's Lane if you want access to St Patrick's hospital (should have added car park)
• Benburb St

two separate examples!

English ain't my strong point today!

tomasrojo

BostonB wrote: »

But tbh using these Luas lanes are not that useful as the surface is dire, and the junctions are often very awkward for a cyclist. Staying on the road is usually quicker and the junctions easier.

Ah but the surface on Steeven's Lane is fine, once you're past the "barrier" part!

If you were to walk your bike up the footpath there and then rejoin the road, you'd be doing nothing illegal. "Access Only" signs have no legal meaning (in this case, they're just to say that you can go to the hospital, but not John's Road West), as far as I know. "Trams Only" do, but if you were to avoid cycling on the part that sign applies to, you'd be clean as a whistle.

Put it this way, to resolve whether walking then cycling (or vice versa if you're going downhill) is legal on this stretch of road, it would have to be brought to court for clarification. Can you imagine anyone being taken to court for walking on the foothpath and then cycling on a bit of road where cycling is permitted, albeit nominally only for exiting the hospital?

tomasrojo

penexpers wrote: »

I haven't fallen on Luas tracks because I always cross them at ~90 degrees.

I was crossing at about 70 degrees when I came off. But that was down to the rain. I guess if I'd been at 90 degrees I'd probably only have wobbled, at worst.

unionman

First up, sympathies to OP, nasty experience I'm sure and I hope you heal quickly.

I've come off twice (a year between each incident) at the front of James' Hospital (at the exact spot indicated by petethedrummer). Banged my shoulder quite badly the first time but was sorted with a few anti-inflammatory tablets. Second time I was lucky enough to fall OK, no injuries.

Both occasions I was taken out because the front wheel slipped back into the wet track as I was crossing at a right angle. Front wheel jacknifed and sent me over the bars.

It's a nightmare section of road, the section parallel to the tracks, where Luas and regular traffic both use the stretch of road, is no fun at all, I actively avoid it now. I cross at Patrick's Hospital junction and go up Kilmainham Lane instead.

A colleague in work has been out with a broken arm and wrist for several weeks now following a similar incident where the road crosses the Luas tracks between between Liberty hall and Busaras. She's been cycling for 45 years without incident, and the experience has left her very shaken.

BostonB

The lesson for me is to route plan away from the luas tracks.