Should I leave him?

b743k · 30-03-2011 12:05AM #1

I've been with my boyfriend for over four years and I'm crazy about him. He's a wonderful boyfriend in so many ways, kind, caring, smart, funny. We have a fantastic relationship except for one big issue, kids.
I really want kids in the future but he never has. He recently moved slightly on the issue and said that I could have kids but they'd be my responsibility solely.
I don't think that that's a healthy situation for kids to have a father who lives with them but basically doesn't care or interact with them.
Should I leave him?

LegacyUser · 30-03-2011 12:17AM

Yes. You should leave him.
You can't be wasting your life waiting for him to change his mind, when he probably never will.
<snip>

seenitall · 30-03-2011 12:48AM

OP, if that's your idea of a kind and caring guy (not to mention SMART

), I'd hate to see your idea of an unkind and stupid guy.

You know that you and any kids you want in your future deserve much, much better than the half-baked idea he's come up with. Unfortunately, with having children, there can be no compromise between the two visions: you either want children or you don't. You do, and he doesn't, so it's crunch time, I guess. Sorry.

(But you seem to know it, anyway.)

Best wishes for the future.

LegacyUser · 30-03-2011 12:52AM

My cousins' husband had the same spiel for years (incl barely allowing children into their house for fear they'd wreck the sofas), when he relented and had his own child, he became a changed man- light in the head about the baby. So your bf's attitude may change without him even realising it.
What's your bf's big hangup about kids? Had he a bad relationship with his own father, or could he just not be bothered with the effort of them?
Does he not think it a bit unfair, on both you and any potential children, that he bails out on any interaction/responsibility? It's a bit of a Catch22 for you, he's saying he's willing to make the comprimise of having kids, but basically that he intends on only being the sperm donor. Motherhood will change you, if not him. If he makes a conscious decision not to partake in the process, your relationship will gradually wither away. It's no fun being a lone parent, even more so when the father is in the same house as you.
Tread carefully, think about things, consider councelling.

Chucky the tree · 30-03-2011 12:54AM

What age is the guy?

b743k · 30-03-2011 12:55AM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

What age is the guy?

39

Chucky the tree · 30-03-2011 12:58AM

b743k wrote: »

39

Time to pack up and leave unless you'd be happy to go alone with his proposal.

b743k · 30-03-2011 01:15AM

I'm being told by his friends that he'll change his mind but he's adament that he won't.
He is geniunely kind to me and smart he just knows that kids aren't for him.
I don't think that this option of his would work in practice if I'm honest so I'm probably answering my own question here.
It's just that the thought of leaving him is heartbreaking.

b743k · 30-03-2011 01:24AM

aldgkajd wrote: »

My cousins' husband had the same spiel for years (incl barely allowing children into their house for fear they'd wreck the sofas), when he relented and had his own child, he became a changed man- light in the head about the baby. So your bf's attitude may change without him even realising it.
What's your bf's big hangup about kids? Had he a bad relationship with his own father, or could he just not be bothered with the effort of them?
Does he not think it a bit unfair, on both you and any potential children, that he bails out on any interaction/responsibility? It's a bit of a Catch22 for you, he's saying he's willing to make the comprimise of having kids, but basically that he intends on only being the sperm donor. Motherhood will change you, if not him. If he makes a conscious decision not to partake in the process, your relationship will gradually wither away. It's no fun being a lone parent, even more so when the father is in the same house as you.
Tread carefully, think about things, consider councelling.

His relationship with both parents seem fine. It's the effort of it all and changing his life that he doesn't want. If I'm honest I'd only continue in the hope that he'd change his mind but if he doesn't then that'd be a serious risk and selfish of me really to not let my kids have a father the way that I had.
My dad is a big part of my life which makes it harder to imagine this situation.

seenitall · 30-03-2011 01:37AM

b743k wrote: »

I'm being told by his friends that he'll change his mind but he's adament that he won't.
He is geniunely kind to me and smart he just knows that kids aren't for him.
I don't think that this option of his would work in practice if I'm honest so I'm probably answering my own question here.
It's just that the thought of leaving him is heartbreaking.

OP, sorry if I came across as a bit harsh in my earlier post; it's just my 2 cents.

I believe it would be a big, big risk for you to take him up on his "offer", perhaps secretly hoping that he will change his mind along the way and become a loving and involved father... It could happen I suppose, but I do think it is more likely, by the sound of him, that he would feel trapped in an untenable situation and resentful over it, and you would have every possibility of ending up a single mother down the line.

The bottom line is: you want more than he is offering, and you deserve more than he is offering. Gambling on someone's change of heart would be a reckless game. That's all.

b743k · 30-03-2011 01:42AM

seenitall wrote: »

OP, sorry if I came across as a bit harsh in my earlier post; it's just my 2 cents.

I believe it would be a big, big risk for you to take him up on his "offer", perhaps secretly hoping that he will change his mind along the way and become a loving and involved father... It could happen I suppose, but I do think it is more likely, by the sound of him, that he would feel trapped in an untenable situation and resentful over it, and you would have every possibility of ending up a single mother down the line.

The bottom line is: you want more than he is offering, and you deserve more than he is offering. Gambling on someone's change of heart would be a reckless game. That's all.

No, you weren't harsh. I would probably think the same thing if I saw my post as an outsider.

I think that keeping relationships/marriages together are hard enough with kids when both parties want them so you're probably right.

We started talking about marriage a few months ago and this is when the 'arrangement' came up but it's not enough for me if it doesn't change.

fghijkl · 30-03-2011 02:19AM

What's your bf's big hangup about kids? Had he a bad relationship with his own father, or could he just not be bothered with the effort of them?

ehh what? some people just aren't maternal/paternal and don't want kids end of.
That doesn't mean there's something wrong with them. It's not about analysing his past or implying he's lazy. Some people just don't want kids, they don't have that parental drive in them, that doesn't make them "wrong" or "broken".

If I'm honest I'd only continue in the hope that he'd change his mind but if he doesn't then that'd be a serious risk and selfish of me really to not let my kids have a father the way that I had.
My dad is a big part of my life which makes it harder to imagine this situation.

Op i'm sorry but he's told you he doesn't want kids. He's 39, it's not as if he's 25/26 and terrified of change/commitment. He's lived the majority of his life, he knows his mind.

We started talking about marriage a few months ago and this is when the 'arrangement' came up but it's not enough for me if it doesn't change.

But what is there to change? He really can't make it any clearer tbh. It's really not something you can compromise on. At the end of the day someone either wants kids or they don't. He doesn't. sorry if that sounds harsh.

b743k · 30-03-2011 02:56AM

But what is there to change? He really can't make it any clearer tbh. It's really not something you can compromise on. At the end of the day someone either wants kids or they don't. He doesn't. sorry if that sounds harsh.[/QUOTE]

I agree and it is simply that he doesn't want kids rather than some unresolved issue he has.

I tried to leave because of it last year. (I'm younger than him so it wasn't an issue before). He talked me out of leaving saying that he was crazy about me and that we were great together and could work something out.

He hadn't wanted marriage either but said that if it made me happy and kept us together he would and then suggested the me do the kids thing idea.

LegacyUser · 30-03-2011 05:16AM

Yes. wrote: »

Yes. You should leave him.
You can't be wasting your life waiting for him to change his mind, when he probably never will.
<snip>

Sorry Zaph for calling the Op's boyfriend a bad word, but that is what his "suggestion" made him sound like to me.
I probably should have explained why though, instead of just calling him a name.
His idea of a compromise is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read.
I don't want kids and neither does my boyfriend. I don't think we are as rock solid on the decision as her boyfriend though.
Her boyfriend IS rock solid on this decision at the minute, and is very likely to remain that way for life. There is nothing wrong with not wanting children.
What is wrong though is coming out with lines like okay I'll relent but "they'd be your responsibility only". That is a ****ty thing to say.
Imagine if my boyfriend suddenly changed his minds and wanted kids, and I turned around and said, "ok, I'll have a baby, but it will be solely your responsibility,I'm handing it over to you, and I won't want anything to do with it", it's just a bloody crazy thing to say!

If you don't want kids, and your partner does, there is no way of "fixing" that.
You leave each other free to find people who actually do want the same things in life, not start coming out with weird, unrealistic compromises like the one suggested.

Tbh OP I can't believe you are even contemplating this idea!
Also to quote you: "He hadn't wanted marriage either but said that if it made me happy and kept us together he would and then suggested the me do the kids thing idea."

So ok, not only does this man not want to have children (which is perfectly ok), he also doesn't want to get married (which is also ok),
but wait - he's willing to do it anyway just to "keep you happy?!"

OP, this is not enough. You shouldn't have to talk people into doing these things your way, or keep hoping that they change their mind.
If you want kids and marriage, then find somebody who actually WANTS these things too.
Why settle for someone, who has very openly told you that they do NOT want kids or marriage, and are basically only doing it to shut you up, so that you can both stay together.
Do you not think you would much happier with someone, who of their own free will actually choose to want to marry you, and someone who also wanted kids like you do?

If/when you choose to leave him over this, I can actually see him turning around and pretending that he has changed his mind, and will try his best to be a good father and make it work.
I wouldn't listen to it OP, he obviously only agrees to these things like marriage and children when he thinks he is going to lose you, so might say things he doesn't mean in order to keep you.
I mean ffs, he has already agreed to marriage and having kids just to please you, so the next step is that he will pretend he would try to be a good dad if it means keeping you.
It's obvious that he wants YOU, but you know yourself OP that he does not want children or marriage, because he basically told you already.
It would not be fair if you try to get him to agree with these things just because you want them, and it is also not fair for him to just keep doing things to please you like marriage, or telling you what you want to hear if he really doesn't mean them.
I can't see your present relationship working without at least one of you ending up feeling bitter and resentful.

Taltos · 30-03-2011 07:47AM

Op I am the same age (well close) as your partner and also do not want kids.
Having told you he doesn't want them or if you have them here is what could happen.
1. It all works out and his personality and feelings all change.
2. He does what he says and ignores them. You and they grow to hate him.
3. He leaves you for someone else as he hates them, the responsibility and maybe even the mother you become.

I am a friend · 30-03-2011 08:29AM

Why is the subject of marriage only coming up after 4 years? Anyway, you could leave this guy and maybe never meet anyone else or meet someone and fall in love and you / they can't have kids...

There are no certainties in life and I think the hardest thing is to find a good partner. You have him and your compromise may be that he is not as into your kids as you wish (I think that could change) but he is the man for you. It's better than having kids with a man who is not for you

LittleBook · 30-03-2011 10:13AM

b743k wrote: »

I tried to leave because of it last year. (I'm younger than him so it wasn't an issue before). He talked me out of leaving saying that he was crazy about me and that we were great together and could work something out

This is his idea of "working something out":

b743k wrote: »

He recently moved slightly on the issue and said that I could have kids but they'd be my responsibility solely ... a father who lives with them but basically doesn't care or interact with them.

I think you know what you have to do. So sorry OP.

Angeles · 30-03-2011 11:04AM

Hi Op,
Sorry to hear about your predicament, unfortunately these things tend to be deal breakers, i know most couples compromise by trying to work around a year or 2, The lets see how things go, maybe feelings will change, but in these cases they usually have the time.

4 years together is a long time, long enough to have these things out in the open, at 39 one would assume their priority's are in order, ie. prepared to be married or not, have a family, kids or not.
You can very likely assume none of these already made decisions in his head are going to change anytime soon.

As you OH is 39, would i be right in assuming you yourself are in your 30's?
Hate to point this out, but its you who's on the clock when it comes to this and not him. The longer you let this linger on, the less likely you yourself will be able to have children and the more likely you will end up resenting him for the rest of your life when your time comes to pass.

Time to bite the bullet on this one op, you need to make it clear to yourself and him that this is a deal breaker, if he's still unwilling, there are plenty out there who will be, best of luck.

I am a friend · 30-03-2011 01:01PM

Angeles wrote: »

, if he's still unwilling, there are plenty out there who will be

Not necessarily and especially if the OP is in her 30's. She may give up this guy, who she loves in order to get back out there and meet all these guys people keep saying are out there who want to have kids.. Its not that easy and she may never meet someone fullstop never mind someone who wants to have kids with her...

I thought the same, then met this guy who I was head over heels in love with and had the chat with him about kids early on. We were in agreement we both wanted kids but he was lying and he wasted 2 years of my time (now late 30's) cos he didnt want to lose me...

There are no guarantees she will meet someone so you should not be indicating that its as simple as just dumping her bf and picking up the next guy who comes along.

b743k · 30-03-2011 01:07PM

Thanks everyone for the input, I seriously appreciate it.

I'm in my 20s but 30 isn't that far off which is why it is make or break now. If I leave I want to have enough time to get back out there rather than staying to a point where I saw no option.

@I am a friend, I appreciate your comments and to be honest this is probably what I hoped to hear but I think that I'm edging towards the majority and realising that it's not fair on anyone involved to keep going.

LegacyUser · 30-03-2011 01:46PM

Hi OP,

I recently broke up with boyfriend regarding the same thing. For me it was the dealbreaker. I was prepared to try and work on it and was hoping he would come around. He on the other hand didnt want to waste my time so broke it off. I was obviously heartbroken, still am i suppose. As upset as I was and am, a weight has lifted from my shoulders. I felt that at 28 I should be with someone who was as excited about having kids as me and he never had that excitement. I know feel like a different person, didn't realise how much is was weighing on my shoulders. I'm looking forward to meeting someone who wants what I want now..:).This was only 3 weeks ago so it is still very fresh in my mind.

You deserve everything you want in life so dont compromise. Men come and go, heartbreak heals so dont be afraid. You know what you want so dont settle for anything less. I wish you all the best and remember your not on your own. x

k4899g · 30-03-2011 01:50PM

To see if he really would change his mind if it happens tell him that you're pregnant and judge his reaction. If he's totally against it tell he that it was a test and leave. If hes excited or happy then you know that he will be in the future. Risky but youve nothing to lose if you are planning on leaving now

b743k · 30-03-2011 02:08PM

foryou wrote: »

Hi OP,

I recently broke up with boyfriend regarding the same thing. For me it was the dealbreaker. I was prepared to try and work on it and was hoping he would come around. He on the other hand didnt want to waste my time so broke it off. I was obviously heartbroken, still am i suppose. As upset as I was and am, a weight has lifted from my shoulders. I felt that at 28 I should be with someone who was as excited about having kids as me and he never had that excitement. I know feel like a different person, didn't realise how much is was weighing on my shoulders. I'm looking forward to meeting someone who wants what I want now..:).This was only 3 weeks ago so it is still very fresh in my mind.

You deserve everything you want in life so dont compromise. Men come and go, heartbreak heals so dont be afraid. You know what you want so dont settle for anything less. I wish you all the best and remember your not on your own. x

Thanks, sorry for your breakup but very glad to hear that you're relieved by the situation at the same time. I'm about the same age and it's something that is really weighing on me now too. Career wise a baby can't really be on the cards for about 3/4 years but there's no point in prolonging the situation until then as if I leave him then it'll be a few years before I'm in the situation personally to have kids with someone if ever so I need to decide now, stay or leave.

He says that most guys don't really want kids and that he shouldn't be punished for being honest. I don't believe that that is the case as I know loads of guys who do.

b743k · 30-03-2011 02:35PM

k4899g wrote: »

To see if he really would change his mind if it happens tell him that you're pregnant and judge his reaction. If he's totally against it tell he that it was a test and leave. If hes excited or happy then you know that he will be in the future. Risky but youve nothing to lose if you are planning on leaving now

I don't think that I could do that tbh

Taltos · 30-03-2011 04:21PM

I know plenty of guys who are dying to have kids. FGS in my family - I am totally against it for many reasons, my younger brother has been dying to have a family since he was in his twenties - now in his late thirties and still waiting - no idea if he has had the chat with his OH but I hope he has...

You are spot on about not pulling a stunt like above. Look chances are if kids are this important to you - more important than a life with this guy it is already over and he knows it - just is hoping that you might change your mind... But can you - if there is a chance that in 20 or 30 yrs when he is close to retiring that you will resent him for the choice he made - I guess for being him - then why go there.

Have one last talk - let him know that as much as you love him kids are just too important to you and you have to move on... This he might change his mind bull - I guess some people do change their minds - I know I do all the time about what socks to wear - but children - never, not even in a moment of weakness would I want a kid.

LegacyUser · 30-03-2011 04:54PM

b743k wrote: »

Thanks, sorry for your breakup but very glad to hear that you're relieved by the situation at the same time. I'm about the same age and it's something that is really weighing on me now too. Career wise a baby can't really be on the cards for about 3/4 years but there's no point in prolonging the situation until then as if I leave him then it'll be a few years before I'm in the situation personally to have kids with someone if ever so I need to decide now, stay or leave.

He says that most guys don't really want kids and that he shouldn't be punished for being honest. I don't believe that that is the case as I know loads of guys who do.

As a guy, who is around an awful lot of other guys the majority of my time, I can honestly tell you that the overwhelming majority of men do not actually want children themselves and most see it as a concession. That, or their gf gets pregnant and they're afraid of looking bad by walking away from the situation.

It's rare that I meet a guy who genuinely wants to have kids, the only one's I've heard talk positively about the situation are men who already have had a kid or are shortly going to, either because their girlfriend is demanding one or they're already pregnant.

Personally I don't see much wrong with the proposal by your boyfriend. You're clearly in love with him, he's clearly in love with you. He'd rather you two spent the rest of your days enjoying life together, you'd rather you did so with children involved. However, he doesn't really want children so proposed a compromise in that you get what you want (children) without burdening him with something he doesn't particularly want (children) so much.

However, you've obviously known that he doesn't want kids for some time now, so I'm not entirely sure what you were expecting? For him to give in and just do what you want, like a lot of men end up doing, much to their own misery? He's a grown man and knows what he wants and to be honest, if you couldn't have accepted that then you should have left him much earlier in the relationship. Why are women so desperate to try to change men, that they'd jeopardize their own happiness in order to "win"?

I think you need to reflect on why you stayed with him despite knowing he didn't want children, which conflicted with your own hopes. You obviously had a good reason, unless you genuinely just thought he'd change for you, which again is pretty shady at best. However, if you did genuinely have a good reason, think of that reason and think about how your future will play out if you go against this reason and end the relationship.

You could try and get a better compromise in place I think, he might be willing to budge. You could offer that he doesn't have to be involved in disciplining the child, changing its dirty nappies or the like, feeding it etc unless he genuinely wants to, and in return all he has to do is be there for the kid, play with it, help it with its homework and whatever else. In short, you'll do all the "mothering" of the child and he'll retain the father/role model figure in the kids life so that they've a normal upbringing.

LittleBook · 30-03-2011 05:06PM

b743k wrote: »

He says that most guys don't really want kids and that he shouldn't be punished for being honest. I don't believe that that is the case as I know loads of guys who do.

I agree with you, there are plenty of men who DO want kids.

And he's not being "punished for being honest", he's not being punished at all. But he can't expect you to stay in a relationship where your visions of and hopes for the future are so different.

trio · 30-03-2011 06:39PM

In my experience, whether you're a man or a woman, by the age of 39 you pretty much know if you would like kids or not.

My husband is 39 and doesn't want any - never has. There's nothing wrong with his upbringing and he gets on fantastic with his folks - it's not some psychological issue.

It's just a preference. Luckily, I match him in that regard - I have zero interest also, and just like him, it's not because of some dark family upbringing. And we discussed it very early on.

We have had a ton of people over the years putting pressure on us to change our minds. A TON of people saying "Ah sure, if you had one you'd feel differently".

I feel like saying "Oh yeah? And what happens if we have a kid and DON'T?? And we resent it? Will YOU take it and raise it, oh so helpful and concerned friend of mine??! It's a damn risky experiment to make - just cos you don't think we know our own minds when we're hitting bloody forty years old!"

Basically what I'm saying is - it's a bloody dangerous game just waiting for someone to change their mind, or presuming that someone will turn into a devoted Dad just cos you ended up talking him into it.

Having kids is a crucial issue for people. It's crucial that you have them, and it's crucial for him that he doesn't. This is not something that you can compromise on. You can't have half a kid. And realistically, you cannot have a kid and be a single mother whilst still living with him. Your relationship will suffer terribly, with resentments on both sides.

He says that most guys don't really want kids and that he shouldn't be punished for being honest. I don't believe that that is the case as I know loads of guys who do.

I don't understand this bit - are you saying that since you know loads of guys who do want kids, that he's some wierd exception? What does it matter anyway? He's been very plain. What difference does it make whether he's an oddity or not, you know???

It doesn't matter if 99.9% of men want kids and he's so rare that scientists want to study him! He still doesn't want them. Ever. It's the end of the story. You have to find someone else who matches you, and that's it, I'm afraid.

Rufus the brave · 30-03-2011 07:32PM

OP, if I was you I wouldn't be listening to any of the above advice. Just go ahead and have the kids, you don't need to ask an internet forum for stuff like that. If he doesn't interact with them, then just ask him to move out and arrange the child support etc. He will soon change his tune.

Taltos · 30-03-2011 07:45PM

Rufus the brave wrote: »

OP, if I was you I wouldn't be listening to any of the above advice. Just go ahead and have the kids, you don't need to ask an internet forum for stuff like that. If he doesn't interact with them, then just ask him to move out and arrange the child support etc. He will soon change his tune.

Great suggestion. Go ahead and fall pregnant and then wonder why he left you. I would... (leave that is).

detoxkid · 30-03-2011 08:27PM

OP I was in the same situation as you with a guy for 6 years. We got on fantastic but we'd end up having the same argument about kids. He never changed. When I broke up with him it was so hard, it's so difficult to leave someone you are still in love with so I can understand your reluctance. He was all about the babies then, but for all the wrong reasons. Fast forward a few years and I am with someone who can't wait to have kids. I'd advise you to move on, however hard.

Should I leave him?

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