Proposed new enrollment policy for LCC/CCC

daymobrew

There is to be new joint enrollment policy for Luttrellstown CC and Castleknock CC, however it would appear from a draft policy on the LCC website (http://www.luttrellstowncc.ie/component/content/article/42.html) that the Riverwood estate will NOT be in the catchment area for CCC, whereas all the neighbouring estates of Luttrellstown, Warren, Luttrell Park, Burnell, Bramley and Fernleigh are, thus children will not be able to attend CCC with their peers from these estates.

suey71

Don't get me started on catchment ares.
I live in Limelawn but technically my kids cant attend St.Mochtas which as it happens is the nearest estate to the school, and yet children down past Westmanstown are able to attend.

Schools should be for the locals. I'm tired of having my estate blocked up at 2.30 with cars driven by people who live miles away collecting their kids.

BostonB

Its seems very odd (and unfair) they would discriminate against one estate like this. Considering theres a natural boundary of the bridge, canal, railway, that splits the area.

Its seems to be a result of an intention to change policy of enrollment to not use length of residency as a criteria. So that people who are not resident in the area that long have chance of getting place in the school. Of this will be the place of someone who has been resident in the area a long time, which seems even more unfair tbh.

As suey says, I don't get why the schools catchment are not local to themselves. It suggests the schools are being built in the wrong locations, away from the bulk of their catchment.

As a result the local schools are over subscribed.

daymobrew

BostonB wrote: »

Its seems to be a result of an intention to change policy of enrollment to not use length of residency as a criteria. So that people who are not resident in the area that long have chance of getting place in the school. Of this will be the place of someone who has been resident in the area a long time, which seems even more unfair tbh.

Fernleigh, built after Riverwood, gets to go to CCC!

BostonB wrote: »

As suey says, I don't get why the schools catchment are not local to themselves. It suggests the schools are being built in the wrong locations, away from the bulk of their catchment.

More bad planning (i.e. a failure to reserve land as houses are built). The after effects of bad planning is felt long after those bad decisions are made. :mad:

Hiitsme

To exclude children from one estate within an area is very unfair. I look forward to hearing their reasoning for this

If this draft policy is approved there is no reversing it.

There is a meeting this coming Wednesday 6th April @ 8:00PM in St. Patrick's National School, Diswellstown to discuss.

I hope as many parents as possible from the Riverwood Estate can attend this meeting to lodge their objection.

BostonB

Actually they would argue it is in the catchment.

Its in the catchment A&B, but not in the priority catchment of B. Which means that its in the catchment, but at the bottom of the list. Also its not alone, Woodbrook, Annfield are along with Riverwood being switched to the "non priority" catchment. If the numbers from catchment B fall then they take from catchment A. If oversubscribed then its a lottery. If the lottery is over B then A or A A & B its not stated.

I would have assumed certain primary schools feed certain secondary schools, so that kids stay with their peers. But it seems thats not the case and its (with the exception of one school) its done on area. But the order of priority within the area or catchment, A or B is not stated.

They are dropping the previous policy of length of residency. Which is whats led to this change in catchment. The reason for that was because they think its unfair to people just moved in. If theres some reason why if you just move into an area you're more entitled to a place than people already there, I don't know what it is.

So basically if this was a queue for an airplane, just before it takes off they are going to do a lottery for tickets, to let the people who turned up last get a chance to get a tickets over someone who've been queuing for hours.

How you are meant to plan your kids schooling around this I have no idea.

Hiitsme

In order words they are proposing giving priority to new families in the area at the expense of residents who were previously in the catchment area.

So children in Riverwood, Woodbrook and Annfield will be excluded from the priority catchment list in order to make way for 'newbies' :eek:

And this is meant to be more fair ?

suey71

I read in one of the local papers last week that priority for CCC is given to Protestant children going to the little white school in Castleknock village.

I've nothing against Protestants, but I wonder will CCC take into account where they live rather than the primary school they go to?

Hiitsme

Yes this minority will be given priority at CCC because there are no Church of Ireland post primary schools in the Castleknock area.

tskk

The Church of Ireland school always had first priorty to access to CCC since the school opened in '95. I could be wrong but I think its because they is no other non fee paying school for them to attend.

suey71

It shouldn't matter what religion the kids are.
If you live locally, you should have the option of sending your kids to your local Primary/Secondary sschools.

Looks like religion still controls this country:mad:.

daymobrew

tskk wrote: »

The Church of Ireland school always had first priorty to access to CCC since the school opened in '95. I could be wrong but I think its because they is no other non fee paying school for them to attend.

I believe that this is the case.

suey71 wrote: »

It shouldn't matter what religion the kids are.
If you live locally, you should have the option of sending your kids to your local Primary/Secondary schools.

Looks like religion still controls this country:mad:.

We need more Educate Together schools
(Disclosure: I am involved with the start up group for West Blanchardstown Educate Together)

BostonB

suey71 wrote: »

....
If you live locally, you should have the option of sending your kids to your local Primary/Secondary sschools.....

The problem with this suggestion, , is they didn't build schools in the middle of their catchment. They built the school where they got the land, rather than dictating to developers, and compulsory purchasing land central to the catchment. So CCC/LCC is like two fried eggs with the yokes back to back. With Luttrelstown/Riverwood in the middle.

However if they change the catchment as they build houses, numbers change it means you have no idea where to move to, to get into a school. Of course if theres no length of residency criteria, and no feeder schools, it means if you have money you can move into where ever the criteria changes to. Which discriminates against long term residents.

There are no secondary ET schools are there? So I'm not clear how would that help? The ET schools operate a first on the list rule. Which causes problems because you can end up that siblings don't get in the same school, and the school could be filled with kids not from the area at all. Also the schools don't feed anywhere so its likely the kids will all be split up when they go to 2nd level. I'm not saying its wrong or right, but its not a perfect system either.

Personally I think keeping kids in their community, and with their peers from primary, is the most stable, and thus most productive. But that doesn't seem the priority here. Its a numbers game only.

Morag

ET schools are well and good and should be encouraged but thus far they are all primary schools and there are no ET secondary schools so often kids from an ET school dont' have a feeder secondary school or are on the bottom of the list for one.

BostonB

I dunno how you are meant to plan ahead if you've a few kids.

suey71

Because I live in Limelawn (accross the road from St.Mochtas Primary School). I don't know which secondary school my children will be allowed attend when they finish primary school.
They attend St.Mochtas btw, I was lucky to get them in.

Hiitsme

The ET primary school in Castleknock is one of the feeder schools for CCC as far as I am aware.

Hiitsme

suey71 wrote: »

Because I live in Limelawn (accross the road from St.Mochtas Primary School). I don't know which secondary school my children will be allowed attend when they finish primary school.
They attend St.Mochtas btw, I was lucky to get them in.

According to this new draft policy Limelawn is in the first first priority catchment area for LCC.

Btw its astonishing Limelawn is not in the catchment area for St. Mochtas primary, it makes no sense at all

daymobrew

suey71 wrote: »

Because I live in Limelawn (accross the road from St.Mochtas Primary School). I don't know which secondary school my children will be allowed attend when they finish primary school.
They attend St.Mochtas btw, I was lucky to get them in.

According to the proposed policy you are in Area A.
As your children are not in the 8 listed primary schools you are under item 4 for LCC:

4. Applicants living in the catchment area from Area A not attending one of the listed Primary Schools.

You are item 6 for CCC:

6. Applicants living in the catchment area from Area A not attending one of the listed Primary Schools.

If you move your children to Scoil Choilm you jump up to item 2 for LCC.

Sharrow wrote:

ET schools are well and good and should be encouraged but thus far they are all primary schools and there are no ET secondary schools so often kids from an ET school don't have a feeder secondary school or are on the bottom of the list for one.

I was sorta joking with my ET comment. I realise that there aren't any ET secondary schools.
ET is a feeder to CCC and LCC. As I am in Riverwood and my children will start ET in 2012, they will be item 3 for LCC and item 5 for CCC.

BostonB

What school is the catchment for Limelawn?

AFAIK.

There's no mention that the list of areas is in order of priority.

In fact there's no priority stated. other than the single feeder school, either everyone in the catchment fills the school, or it goes to a lottery. Theres no information on how the lottery will be done either. List B then A, or both together. Its probably the former, but it doesn't say either way.

I'm open to correction...

BostonB

Hiitsme wrote: »

The ET primary school in Castleknock is one of the feeder schools for CCC as far as I am aware.

I don't think so. Where are you getting that from? I don't think its a feeder for either school. In fact most of the primary schools in the area are not feeders for any school.

AFAIK.

Hiitsme

BostonB wrote: »

I don't think so. Where are you getting that from? I don't think its a feeder for either school. In fact most of the primary schools in the area are not feeders for any school.

AFAIK.

Apologies, I obviously got that wrong. Just checked CCC's current admissions policy which states:

• In May/June of each year enrolment information will be distributed to Fifth Class students, resident in the catchment area, in the following primary schools:

• St. Brigids, Castleknock, Dublin 15.
• Scoil Thomais, Laurel Lodge, Castleknock, Dublin 15.
• St. Mochtas, Porterstown, Dublin 15
• *Castleknock Nat. School, Main St., Castleknock, D.15
• St. Francis Xavier, Roselawn, Dublin 15.
• Scoil Oilbheir, Clonsilla Road, Dublin 15
• Educate Together, Beechpark Avenue, D.15
• Scoil Bhride, Boys & Girls, Blanchardstown, Dublin 15
• St. Patrick’s Nat. School, Luttrellstown, D. 15.
• Mount Sackville

So they take applications from these schools but they are not feeder schools, would that be correct ?

BostonB

You're looking at the current policy. Which is changing, so hence this thread about the new policy.

There is only one pure feeder school to CCC. Castleknock Church of Ireland National School. If the list is in order of priority, then after that it depends on where you live. Anywhere on list B gets priority over list A.

daymobrew

Hiitsme wrote: »

So they take applications from these schools but they are not feeder schools, would that be correct ?

It depends on what we each define a "feeder school" to be.
I assume it to mean that the students of a feeder school go to the secondary school, with the possibility of some enrolment conditions i.e. not guaranteed a place but a high probability.

BostonB wrote:

I don't think so. Where are you getting that from? I don't think its a feeder for either school. In fact most of the primary schools in the area are not feeders for any school.

AFAIK.

A PDF on the Castleknock ET site says that for 2011, CETNS is a feeder for LCC (for everyone) and for CCC (for those in catchment area for 11+ years).

BostonB

daymobrew wrote: »

It depends on what we each define a "feeder school" to be.
I assume it to mean that the students of a feeder school go to the secondary school, with the possibility of some enrolment conditions i.e. not guaranteed a place but a high probability....

For me its a school that IS guaranteed a place.

For example if you are in Castleknock Church of Ireland National School that's the only requirement. Its doesn't matter where you live.

The other are feeder lite as it depends on other criteria. They may call it feeder, but it really isn't. If you are the catchment, it means where you live, not what school you go to.

BostonB

daymobrew wrote: »

...
A PDF on the Castleknock ET site says that for 2011, CETNS is a feeder for LCC (for everyone) and for CCC (for those in catchment area for 11+ years).

That the old/current policy. In that there are feeder schools.

In the new policy its where you live is the primary criteria.

Not the school, not how long you've lived there.

max power 18

Is LCC not nearer to Riverwood?

Think it was about time CCCs admission policy was changed.Children who lived next door to the school were being denied a place simply because they didnt live there for x amount of years while children in say clonsilla village are being bussed there daily.
Surely it makes more sense to go to your nearest school particulerly if both schools have good reputations.

suey71

Limelawn is in Mountview (St.Philips Parish) and not in St.Mochtas Parish.

I heard that the middle of the Clonsilla road is where St.Mochtas ends and St.Philips begins.

Does that mean I'll have to send my kids to Blakestown?

This is getting ridiculous.

Plus, the people in charge of catchment areas change the goalposts every year.

BostonB

max power 18 wrote: »

Is LCC not nearer to Riverwood?

Think it was about time CCCs admission policy was changed.Children who lived next door to the school were being denied a place simply because they didnt live there for x amount of years while children in say clonsilla village are being bussed there daily.
Surely it makes more sense to go to your nearest school particulerly if both schools have good reputations.

LCC isn't built yet, and neither is the feeder road. Its currently in Blanch Hosp. Can't judge it based on results since it hasn't had a class do the leaving yet. Oldest class is 2nd Yr AFAIK.

They are bussed from all over the existing catchment. Why should someone who's lived in the catchment area a long time, be discriminated against in favour of someone who just moved in. How is that fair. If you move into an area knowing there's no spaces in the local school, you do that deliberately. Likewise if you do it on proximity, most of Castleknock would be excluded and Riverwood and similar would get in no problem, since its a short walk to the school.

BostonB

What secondary school, do the areas down as the catchment for LCC go to previously?

Gaspode

Really is time to get rid of the 'Parish' notion for catchments. It should be done on proximity to the school.

Morag

suey71 wrote: »

Does that mean I'll have to send my kids to Blakestown?

Well Blakestown out did Coolmine last year in terms of Leaving Cert results and has a lot of resources, having had family members in Coolmine, Blakestown is not that bad of a choice at all.

Justask

I really feel that people are missing the main thing here!

We have a new school in the Dublin 15 area. IMO this is a fantastic thing

CCC has far to many kid as it is and they need to put rules in place, what ever way they change the policy there is going to be some people that are not happy.

LCC is a great school, just because its new do not mean that its not got a great future Cos it has

Im just happy to see another school in the area

suey71

I think your right.

I'd say people are a little nervous of sending their kids to a school with no track record.

BostonB

Gaspode wrote: »

Really is time to get rid of the 'Parish' notion for catchments. It should be done on proximity to the school.

That only suits if the school is in the middle of the catchment.

Gaspode

BostonB wrote: »

That only suits if the school is in the middle of the catchment.

But cant the school just be designated as the middle of the catchment?
Depending on it's location and proximity to other schools the diameter of it's catchment can be adjusted accordingly.

BostonB

While a virtual location makes sense to us. I think that would be a hard sell, for someone seeing one school as they walked to another they couldn't see.

mmclo

I don't support religion being used at all but aprently the COI category in CCC accounts for 2/3 puipls annually

There are probably going to be at least two more secondary schools in D15 in the next 2/3 years and Educate Together have begun campaigning for at least one of these to be and Educate Together secondary school

BostonB

mmclo wrote: »

I don't support religion being used at all but aprently the COI category in CCC accounts for 2/3 puipls annually....

I would seriously doubt that. Where did you get that from.

daymobrew

mmclo wrote: »

I don't support religion being used at all but aprently the COI category in CCC accounts for 2/3 puipls annually

If you mean "two thirds", I too doubt this.

A webpage on the school says that it has 175 pupils. At the Riverwood Residents Association meeting on the enrolment policy, someone mentioned that CCC takes 210 pupils per year. That is more that the total enrolment of the COI school.

So, where did you get that figure?
Or does "2/3" mean "two or three"?

BostonB

Ah 2 or 3 might be true, seems a bit low.

mmclo

BostonB wrote: »

Ah 2 or 3 might be true, seems a bit low.

Sorry two or three in the words of the principal. Think COI primary has ony one stream? Obviously there are other secondary options too.

BostonB

COI is so small its insignificant to the total numbers. IMO.