A few basic questions

ldxo15wus6fpgm

Howdy all, just a few things I want to clear up! I read the stickies and they answered a few questions but I have more.

Am I right in saying that high weight, low reps is good for strength training and low weight high reps is better for toning? Have heard so many myths about this.

I don't really have the cash for whey powder shakes etc. so I generally buy a half kg bag of mixed unsalted nuts every week for a source of protein (got sick of eating eggs every day!). They have quite a high fat content, between 35-50%, would these generally be good fats or bad fats (or a mix?)

Also these shakes have extremely high calorific value, are there any protein supplements that are not packed with carbs? I can feel that I've got good muscle mass in my abs, thighs etc. but they're still covered in a layer of flab, I want to continue building muscle but lose that fat!

Why is it that I can lift much greater weight for more reps on a machine than when doing the same exercise with free weights, e.g. dumbbell fly? I'm guessing it's to do with form and the fact that free weights exercise more than just one or two muscles but I've always wondered...

Are ice baths actually any good for recovery? A mate studying sports science tells me they're useless except for joint injuries etc. but he's not exactly studious so I don't know whether to listen to him!

Cheers!

Mellor

Angelica Grumpy Motorcyclist wrote: »

Am I right in saying that high weight, low reps is good for strength training and low weight high reps is better for toning? Have heard so many myths about this.

Toning = fat loss.
To lose fat, you need to eat less calories than your burn. Lift low weight, or heavy weight, low rep or heavy rep all burns calories. Even if one is slightly better, its not going to dicate if you lose weight or not. Your diet is the important factor. By a long way.

I don't really have the cash for whey powder shakes etc. so I generally buy a half kg bag of mixed unsalted nuts every week for a source of protein (got sick of eating eggs every day!). They have quite a high fat content, between 35-50%, would these generally be good fats or bad fats (or a mix?)

Nut aren't a good source of protein imo.
They have some protein, but they are mostly made up of fat. This is generally good fats, but you need to get a better source of protein.
You don't need whey shakes, but gram for gram (or protein), the shakes would be cheaper than 1kg of nuts. Eggs, chicken, all meat really, milk, cottage cheese and whey are good sources of protien

Also these shakes have extremely high calorific value, are there any protein supplements that are not packed with carbs?

The problem her is you are just looking as all shakes being equal. They aren't. Whey shakes have very little carbs.
Mass gainer shakes are essentially whey shakes with simple sugars thrown in.
If you want to strip fat, avoid the gainers as you need to be on a calorie deficit.

Why is it that I can lift much greater weight for more reps on a machine than when doing the same exercise with free weights, e.g. dumbbell fly? I'm guessing it's to do with form and the fact that free weights exercise more than just one or two muscles but I've always wondered...

Lots of reasons.
Free weights you are lifting the weight directly. That's the weight you can lift.
Machines you don't have to stablised the weight. The movement is often on a fixed path so its easier to uswe bad form to get more behind the weight. Machines often use a "lever" so the force required to lift a weight is less than the force of the weight.

ldxo15wus6fpgm

Cheers for the reply, very helpful!

So about the diet, I basically want to aim for high protein, mid carbs, mid unsaturates and low saturates [EDIT: and obviously a calorie deficit] for weight loss and muscle gain? I'm not going to try and plan out my weekly diet because I know I'd never stick to it, time constraints etc.

Having had a look online for whey mix, I found this stuff on ebay but it's seriously cheap compared to everything else, can anyone comment on the quality of this stuff?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/5LB-MATRIX-NUTRITION-WHEY-PROTEIN-POWDER-ALL-FLAVOURS-/180643118597?pt=UK_Health_Beauty_Vitamins_Supplements&var=&hash=item6fc39cf2a8#ht_1168wt_1123

or would it be worth paying the extra bit of money and going for

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Optimum-Gold-100-Whey-Protein-Strawb-2-273-g-Gratiss-/230598976620?pt=UK_Health_Beauty_Vitamins_Supplements&hash=item35b0c5246c#ht_1288wt_1139

Mellor

The first one looks very cheap.
24g protien per 40g serve.
The second is a known, high quality brand. It's available for 39 I think
24g protein per 30g serve

So the amount of protein per serve is the same. But because they are both 5lb tubs, the second has 1/3 more servings. 56 verses 74. So not quite making up the price difference but something to consider.


myprotine is good value too.
http://www.myprotein.com/uk/products/impact_whey_protein#
2.5kg for 21GBP

denballs

Howdy all, just a few things I want to clear up! I read the stickies and they answered a few questions but I have more.

Have you looked at bodybuilding.com?

Am I right in saying that high weight, low reps is good for strength training and low weight high reps is better for toning? Have heard so many myths about this.

The heavier, the weight the more damage it does to your muscle fibre, therefore more muscle will be repaired, and it will grow faster and in larger increments.
HIGH weight=muscle gain {AKA strength}
LOW WEIGHT many reps=might aswell be on a threadmill

I don't really have the cash for whey powder shakes etc. so I generally buy a half kg bag of mixed unsalted nuts every week for a source of protein (got sick of eating eggs every day!). They have quite a high fat content, between 35-50%, would these generally be good fats or bad fats (or a mix?)

You can get a month,s supply of high quality protein powder for 30-45 euro a month.I dont see this as expensive....but if you cant afford this you should really just try to time your meals, eat a large dinner {with a good mix of nutrients} within a half hour of weight training, and drink milk and eat, potatoe,s and peanutbutter as snacks.....oatmeal would also be an inexpensive but helpful breakfast {1 euro for 1kg bag in tesco}

Also these shakes have extremely high calorific value, are there any protein supplements that are not packed with carbs? I can feel that I've got good muscle mass in my abs, thighs etc. but they're still covered in a layer of flab, I want to continue building muscle but lose that fat!

Im not sure what your long term aims are, or what way you work, but most succesful bodybuilders {not just pro,s} do a phase of bulking- this is when you eat high calorie foods as that helps you gain muscle in winter, then in summer {or in the 2-3 months leading up to it} they rip/shred- this is when you do similar routines but your aim is to drop your body fat %...but retain as much muscle as possible.If you want high protein with low calories, buy chicken breast {not somthing like moy park breaded chicken which is really only 45% chicken}

Why is it that I can lift much greater weight for more reps on a machine than when doing the same exercise with free weights, e.g. dumbbell fly? I'm guessing it's to do with form and the fact that free weights exercise more than just one or two muscles but I've always wondered...

There are a few factors at play, one being that machines are mainly for focusing on 1 muscle or finishing off a muscle group,with free weights you musc control the balance and the full {un-suppported} gravity of the weight...you,ll use various minor muscles doing this.

Are ice baths actually any good for recovery? A mate studying sports science tells me they're useless except for joint injuries etc. but he's not exactly studious so I don't know whether to listen to him!

I really dont know, but glutamine is ... http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/glutamine.html

I dont know if you can afford it, or not but id suggest getting a months supply of BSN SYNTHA-6...it,ll cost you about 40 euro...which is really only like 1 euro a day, its one of the best proteins, and contains many things ..includeing glutamine....200 calories per serving.

Mellor

denballs wrote: »

I dont know if you can afford it, or not but id suggest getting a months supply of BSN SYNTHA-6...it,ll cost you about 40 euro...which is really only like 1 euro a day, its one of the best proteins, and contains many things ..includeing glutamine....200 calories per serving.

Overpriced.
Pretty low protein content. (It's not a protein shake really)
Tastes great though.

bubbleking

Re Ice baths

There are a good few studies that show ice baths are an effective form of recovery when compared to doing nothing. However they show no benefit over doing an active recovery such as a jog so you are probably far better off doing an extra lap of the pitch as a cool down than sitting in an ice bath.

However - and this is the interesting bit. When athletes were asked they felt that they recovered better when they did the ice baths. so even though there is no physiological difference between a jog cool down and ice baths if the athlete feels better after the ice baths then by all means get them to do that.

gymsoldier

Mellor wrote: »

Toning = fat loss.

Im not getting onto you about this, everybody gets this one mixed up.
Muscle Tone is the tension the muscle holds. Can you "tone" a muscle, yes.
But yes, you are right when everbodys thinks of muscle tone as the general perception of weight loss.

TommyKnocker

bubbleking wrote: »

Re Ice baths

There are a good few studies that show ice baths are an effective form of recovery when compared to doing nothing. However they show no benefit over doing an active recovery such as a jog so you are probably far better off doing an extra lap of the pitch as a cool down than sitting in an ice bath.

However - and this is the interesting bit. When athletes were asked they felt that they recovered better when they did the ice baths. so even though there is no physiological difference between a jog cool down and ice baths if the athlete feels better after the ice baths then by all means get them to do that.

Purely ancedotal evidence, but a few years ago I was really into running and my long runs were around 18 miles. At first I was really stiff and sore on Mondays, after these runs, but then I heard of Paula Radcliffe using ice baths after her training sessions and Marathons, so decided to try it.

Filled the bath with enough cold water to come up to my navel when I sat in. Added in block of ice which I made from freezing water in plastic containers. Then jumped in and sat in it for 20 minutes, as this as apparently the duration of PR's ice baths. Drank a hot drink and had a fleece on my upper body while in the bath. Got out dried off, dressed warmly and had somethign to eat. After a few hours I would then have a hot shower.

I have to say that there was a marked difference in how I felt after my long runs when I had the ice bath.

They may not be ablel to "prove" it works, but I am certainly a convert

bubbleking

TommyKnocker wrote: »

Purely ancedotal evidence, but a few years ago I was really into running and my long runs were around 18 miles. At first I was really stiff and sore on Mondays, after these runs, but then I heard of Paula Radcliffe using ice baths after her training sessions and Marathons, so decided to try it.

Filled the bath with enough cold water to come up to my navel when I sat in. Added in block of ice which I made from freezing water in plastic containers. Then jumped in and sat in it for 20 minutes, as this as apparently the duration of PR's ice baths. Drank a hot drink and had a fleece on my upper body while in the bath. Got out dried off, dressed warmly and had somethign to eat. After a few hours I would then have a hot shower.

I have to say that there was a marked difference in how I felt after my long runs when I had the ice bath.

They may not be ablel to "prove" it works, but I am certainly a convert

they have proved it doesnt work but if you feel better for doing it then what harm

G86

Angelica Grumpy Motorcyclist wrote: »

I don't really have the cash for whey powder shakes etc. so I generally buy a half kg bag of mixed unsalted nuts every week for a source of protein (got sick of eating eggs every day!). They have quite a high fat content, between 35-50%, would these generally be good fats or bad fats (or a mix?)

Also these shakes have extremely high calorific value, are there any protein supplements that are not packed with carbs? I can feel that I've got good muscle mass in my abs, thighs etc. but they're still covered in a layer of flab, I want to continue building muscle but lose that fat!

Just on this, you'd be better to cut down on the nuts if you're looking to cut down your calorie intake. There are WAY more kcals in about 50 grams of nuts than in a protein shake, you're looking at about 300kcal V's 140kcal. I don't know what protein shakes you've looked up, but the one I have at the moment is only 136kcal per 30g serving, with less than 3g of carbs. I'll check the name of it when I get home, but I got it in IP, so someone who trains there reading this might know? I used to get the 100% Whey Protein from Optimum Nutrition, which was good too, and low enough in kcal/carbs also.

You could pick up a 2kg tub of protein online for less than €50, dependent on where you shop. Or you could go for a smaller tub like this (908g) which would last you about a month if you're only taking one a day. Other posters might know cheaper alternatives than that even.

I get the giant tubs of whey protein in holland & barrett and they usually have deals on in general in that shop. I think it's 30 or 40 for the tub but usually there's something like half price or buy one get one free etc

http://www.hollandandbarrett.com/pages/product_detail.asp?pid=100&MCatID=5&prodid=563

TommyKnocker

bubbleking wrote: »

they have proved it doesnt work but if you feel better for doing it then what harm

With no wish to derail or take over this thread...

...BUT I didn't just "feel better for doing it"

First 18 mile run with a half mile walk and 20 minutes of static stretching at the end as recovery stratergy.

Next 2 days really hard to walk. Going down stairs backwards due to soreness in Quads. Painful to have to stand/walk after prolonged periods of sitting. Really severe DOMS

At this time I was running a constant 40 ish miles a week and previous longest run was 13 miles.

Next 18 mile run (2 weeks later) with half mile walk, 20 minutes of static stretching and an ice bath.

Next day although quads were slightly sore, no problem walking down stairs, Quads not as sore as after the previous run. Still stiff getting up after prolonged periods of sitting, but nowhere near as bad as after the previous run. Fairly mild DOMS.

So as far as I am concerned, they had a positive effect on my recovery as I did nothing else different between long runs. So if I am asked if they work, my reply would be, Yes, for me at least.

I was skeptical about the ice baths effectiveness, so I don't believe I convinced myself that I felt better and recovered quicker. I am full sure that I actually did.

bubbleking

to be fair it could be down to any number of things why your DOMS wernt as severe the 2nd time you did the 18 mile run. Im just telling you that physiologically you would have recovered the same if you warmed down in the traditional way. Any improvement you felt using the ice baths was a mental one and not a physiological one

metamorphosis

As a runner, id second TK. The few times i have actually went to the bother of prepping for an ice bath, my doms were non significant the next day. The countless times iv ran 17,18 miles and not taken a bath and still rollled and stretched the monday after was always a case of having DOMS and id skip my tuesday speed/track session too that week for cross training or easy session.

I have the same effect with 'massaging' on a vibro for a good few minutes too though. One of the gyms i teach in has those plates and id go out of my way to go in and hit each of the areas that usually get sore (quads, adductors, glutes) and doms would be also not significant the nest day - more potent effect than rolling for me anyway.

It may be anecdotal, it may not be. Just what i felt and experienced. Out of genuine interest, if you can point me in the direction of any papers showing that id love to see them. (aka too lazy to look for myself)

Also, sorry for continuing to go off topic.

NeVeR

Just a question..

I'm trying to lose weight, I've a cross trainer at home and some weights.

My questions are.

1) If i'm trying to lose about 1 and a half stone what should my calorie in take be ?

2) How far ( in KM) should i be trying to aim for on the cross trainer each session ( i'm going to try do 4 times a week )

bubbleking

metamorphosis wrote: »

As a runner, id second TK. The few times i have actually went to the bother of prepping for an ice bath, my doms were non significant the next day. The countless times iv ran 17,18 miles and not taken a bath and still rollled and stretched the monday after was always a case of having DOMS and id skip my tuesday speed/track session too that week for cross training or easy session.

I have the same effect with 'massaging' on a vibro for a good few minutes too though. One of the gyms i teach in has those plates and id go out of my way to go in and hit each of the areas that usually get sore (quads, adductors, glutes) and doms would be also not significant the nest day - more potent effect than rolling for me anyway.

It may be anecdotal, it may not be. Just what i felt and experienced. Out of genuine interest, if you can point me in the direction of any papers showing that id love to see them. (aka too lazy to look for myself)

Also, sorry for continuing to go off topic.

no problem - I was at a conference last month on cryotherapy and they said they would post us out both presentations with all the supporting papers. I'll root it out and send it on

TommyKnocker

NeVeR wrote: »

Just a question..

I'm trying to lose weight, I've a cross trainer at home and some weights.

My questions are.

1) If i'm trying to lose about 1 and a half stone what should my calorie in take be ?

This will be dependant on your sex, age, height, current weight and current activity level.

2) How far ( in KM) should i be trying to aim for on the cross trainer each session ( i'm going to try do 4 times a week )

To lose weight, I presume that you mean drop body fat, then I think you will get faster results by mixing things up.

Don't just continually do steady paced distance workouts on the Xtrainer. Do some intervals also. Say 5 min warm up, then 30 seconds fast as possible, with 60 secs recovery and repeat 10 times. Finish with 5 minute warm down. Aim to decreas the recovery and increase the work sections over time

If you are going to workout 4 time a week then make two of the days weight focussed. Use what ever weights you have at your disposal along with body weight exercises (squats, lunges, pushups, pullups etc. Youtube will have lots of ideas on body weight routines. Also Kettlebells and skipping are really good for helping to drop bodyfat.

The most important contributor to your goal will be your diet. You must get you diet right and eat slightly less (around 500 cals) per day then your body needs. Without getting your nutrition sorted you will struggle to lose weight, which could lead to you getting demotivated and stopping.

NeVeR

TommyKnocker wrote: »

If you are going to workout 4 time a week then make two of the days weight focussed. Use what ever weights you have at your disposal along with body weight exercises (squats, lunges, pushups, pullups etc. Youtube will have lots of ideas on body weight routines. Also Kettlebells and skipping are really good for helping to drop bodyfat.

The most important contributor to your goal will be your diet. You must get you diet right and eat slightly less (around 500 cals) per day then your body needs. Without getting your nutrition sorted you will struggle to lose weight, which could lead to you getting demotivated and stopping.

I'm Male/28/ about 5'11 / roughtly 16.5 stone..

It is my top half i need work on..

Mellor

gymsoldier wrote: »

Im not getting onto you about this, everybody gets this one mixed up.
Muscle Tone is the tension the muscle holds. Can you "tone" a muscle, yes.
But yes, you are right when everbodys thinks of muscle tone as the general perception of weight loss.

I don't think anyone has ever said tone or toning on this board and refered to muscle tension.

ldxo15wus6fpgm

Mellor wrote: »

myprotine is good value too.
http://www.myprotein.com/uk/products/impact_whey_protein#
2.5kg for 21GBP

Ever tried it yourself? Does it mix ok, taste ok? (as in not disgusting)

Mellor

I haven't personally, as they don't ship to my location.
But a lot of people here use or used it in the past. I'm sure it would be mentioned if it was digusting.
There are some customer reviews. The first one say it mixes pretty well and tastes fine (unflavoured with water).
flavours vary, ON's Vanilla flacour is manky. I had to toss in a tub of drinking chocolate to make it nice (too nice now imo )


Somebody with direct exp it will posts soon I'd say.

gymsoldier

Mellor wrote: »

I don't think anyone has ever said tone or toning on this board and refered to muscle tension.

Exactly my point Muscle "Tone" is the tension the muscle holds

Mellor

My point was that previous post and "correction" was a bit pedantic as the OP clearly wasn't talking about that.

gymsoldier

Mellor wrote: »

My point was that previous post and "correction" was a bit pedantic as the OP clearly wasn't talking about that.

Angelica Grumpy Motorcyclist wrote: »

Am I right in saying that high weight, low reps is good for strength training and low weight high reps is better for toning?

Now the OP know what toning is