CENSUS 2011, Can you speak Irish?

LordSutch

Question No 14 in the Census asks . . .

"Can you speak Irish" YES or NO?

"If Yes, do you speak Irish"
1/ Daily, within the educayion system.
2/ Daily, outside the education system.
3/ Weekly.
4/ Less often.
5/ Never.

I have truthfully answered question No/2 with a Yes
BUT CAN I REALLY SPEAK IRISH? in the context that the census requires?
I can obviously say 'yes' to one liners, and 'yes' to daily outside the education system, but surely they are looking for people who can actually converse in Irish to tick the YES box? I occassionally say Suigh síos (sit down) to the dog , and I might also say to my missus for a laugh Dún an doras (close the door) + several other one liners every other day, so I do speak/use a few words of Irish every other day.

I guess many people like me will also say YES to one of the boxes without actually being able to converse in the Irish language, should this be cause for concern? or does it really matter if the Census says that 70% of the population can speak Irish (like me), when in reality its more like 10% who can 'speak' (can actually converse in depth) in the Irish language.

The poll attached is my 'modified version' which includes an obvious admission (on their part) cupla focal

marxcoo

As long as the fella collecting the census isn't conducting Irish Orals you'll be grand I say.

Oranage2

Sea, Gaeilgoir mé ach ní labhraím Gaeilge ar coir a bith!!!

strobe

They should put that question in Irish only.

OPENROAD

A few phrases doesn't count as being able to speak a language, so no for me.

It should be re-worded to;

"Are you able to competently converse in Irish:

1. Yes
2. No"



No ifs, buts, or maybes. You can or you can't. Personally, I can't, and have no desire to.

Senna

I'll be answering no, i know basic stuff like the above, but there's no point lying.

Tar.Aldarion

A lot of people that know a line here and there will say yes, I'll be saying no, even doing well in honours in the leaving cert via rote. Even if one could speak it well, you forget it too.

Mark200

If someone asked if you spoke German or French, you wouldn't say 'yes' if you only knew a few lines

mikemac

You can request the form in Irish, the enumerators carry around copies with them.
It's no problem at all to ask for it

Now if you can fill up the Irish version you clearly have good knowledge.
The CSO should look at the people who complete this version, would be an interesting statistic to see how many do this.

ElaElaElano

I used to be good at Irish, even wrote a big piece about the implications of the holocaust as gaeilge for the school yearbook when I was in 6th year, but it's incredible how quickly it all slips out of your mind once your don't speak it for a couple of years. Bumped into my old Irish teacher a few months ago and I lost the ability to say anything beyond 'Dia Dhuit'.

LordSutch

feelingstressed wrote: »

You can request the form in Irish, the enumerators carry around copies with them.
It's no problem at all to ask for it

Now if you can fill up the Irish version you clearly have good knowledge.
The CSO should look at the people who complete this version, would be an interesting statistic to see how many do this.

Brilliant idea, but I suspect that they might not like the results!

strobe

Mark200 wrote: »

If someone asked if you spoke German or French, you wouldn't say 'yes' if you only knew a few lines

Yes. Yes I would. But I'm a dishonest rapscallion.

Mike 1972

LordSutch wrote: »

I have truthfully answered question No/2 with a Yes

No you havent

I can say Is maith liom Cóicín agus Stripachí but it doesnt make me an Gaelic speaker any more than being able to say Lubię Kokainę i Prostytutki makes me a Polish speaker.

LordSutch wrote: »

does it really matter if the Census says that 70% of the population can speak Irish (like me), when in reality its more like 10% who can 'speak' (can actually converse in depth) in the Irish language.

Yes it does.

The census statistics are used to justify all sorts of arguments and determine all sorts of policies in relation to the language which may will turn out to be totally inappropriate.

The question should have been a two parter, first part on the competency and the second part on the frequency.

Duckworth_Luas

feelingstressed wrote: »

You can request the form in Irish, the enumerators carry around copies with them.
It's no problem at all to ask for it

Now if you can fill up the Irish version you clearly have good knowledge.
The CSO should look at the people who complete this version, would be an interesting statistic to see how many do this.

Not really. A native Irish speaker once told me that she preferred to use the English language version. The census form uses what is referred to as civil service Irish, words and phrases never used by fluent native speakers.

Stained Class

It's a no for me.

Went thru the education system frm '72 to '85 & still have memories of the 'ultracool' Peig.

In my view Irish language activists are very much an embarrasment to the language & Irish people in general.

The're just, In my view Cranks....

LordSutch

Mike 1972 wrote: »

No you havent

I can say Is maith liom cóicín agus Stripachí but it doesnt make me an Gaelic speaker any more than being able to say Lubię kokainę i prostytutki makes me a Polish speaker.

But I can speak Irish (words), but that doesnt mean I can converse in Irish!

What I'm trying to do, is to show up the 'Irish question' for the farce that it is.

Senna

Most people will answer "yes" because they can say a few words, then when people are defending the Irish Language, they'll say "from the census, there are 150k people who can speak Irish" which of course is bollox.

I've nothing against the Irish Language, just the way its taught, it should be a purely spoken language.

LordSutch

Exactly ^ nail on the head 100%.

Mike 1972

LordSutch wrote: »

But I can speak Irish (words), but that doesnt mean I can converse in Irish!

I can speak words from about 19 different languages but (like most people in Ireland) cant realstically converse in anything other than English.

Its kinda embarrasing when Im in somewhere like the Netherlands and dealing with locals fluent in three or more languages but thats the Irish education system for you (best system in the world my @r$€.

Duckworth_Luas

LordSutch wrote: »

What I'm trying to do, is to show up the 'Irish question' for the farce that it is.

Why? The question is very, very simple and straightforward.

The first part asks you if you can speak the language, Yes or No. If you answer yes, ie you can speak the language, then answer the second part on the frequency you speak it. Knowing a few words does not mean you can speak Irish, therefore you should answer no and save us all another anti-Irish thread.

Why do you care anyway? Don't you live out foreign, somewhere called the British Isles where the 1916 leaders are seen as terrorists.

gigino

the question is loaded + badly phrased. Some people will answer yes because yes sounds more positive and puts them in a better light ( being bi-lingual).

Very few people ever carry on a conversation in Irish or read a book or magazine or paper in Irish. Waste of money. Its a dead, ugly old language that was beaten in to us at school. Get rid of it.

Mike 1972

Mike 1972 wrote: »

I can speak words from about 19 different languages but (like most people in Ireland) cant realstically converse in anything other than English.

Its kinda embarrasing when Im in somewhere like the Netherlands and dealing with locals fluent in three or more languages but thats the Irish education system for you (best system in the world my @r$€.

I can order a beer in quite a few different languages!

LordSutch

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

Why? The question is very, very simple and straightforward.

The first part asks you if you can speak the language, Yes or No. If you answer yes, ie you can speak the language, then answer the second part on the frequency you speak it. Knowing a few words does not mean you can speak Irish, therefore you should answer no and save us all another anti-Irish thread.

Dear Lord, looks like its rattled your cage :rolleyes:

Its a serious question, and as you can see from 99% of the posters here, there are questions to be asked about the Census Question itself. I have friends who have already ticked the YES box, and yes, (they can speak a little Irish), and the Census will add their number to the SPEAK IRISH-YES count < but they certainly can't converse in Irish.

TanG411

I can't speak Irish, so will be saying no.

Stained Class

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

Why do you care anyway? Don't you live out foreign, somewhere called the British Isles where the 1916 leaders are seen as terrorists.

Cranks.:rolleyes:

Mike 1972

Deleted User wrote: »

I can order a beer in quite a few different languages!

I can order Kokainę i Prostytutki when Im in Poland

PeterIanStaker

I am able to read Irish quite well and I would have no problem having a basic conversation through the medium of Gaeilge with some practice.*

I also have a similar level of competency with French. I attained high grades in both languages in the Leaving Cert.


*sits back and waits to be called a terrorist or something*

Insect Overlord

Tá Gaeilge agam. Bainim úsáid asti beagnach chuile lá, laismuigh agus laistigh den gcóras oideachais.

I speak Irish almost every day, both in and out of education.

Stained Class

My problem with the 'Language Cranks' is that that they expect everybody to pay for their 'hobby'

I've got hobbies of my own..............Hmmm.... maybe, I should ask the Govt to buy me a new Fishing Rod..........or a set of Golf clubs....or....:rolleyes:

deise go deo

LordSutch wrote: »

Question No 14 in the Census asks . . .

"Can you speak Irish" YES or NO?

"If Yes, do you speak Irish"
1/ Daily, within the educayion system.
2/ Daily, outside the education system.
3/ Weekly.
4/ Less often.
5/ Never.

I have truthfully answered question No/2 with a Yes
BUT CAN I REALLY SPEAK IRISH? in the context that the census requires?
I can obviously say 'yes' to one liners, and 'yes' to daily outside the education system, but surely they are looking for people who can actually converse in Irish to tick the YES box? I occassionally say Suigh síos (sit down) to the dog , and I might also say to my missus for a laugh Dún an doras (close the door) + several other one liners every other day, so I do speak/use a few words of Irish every other day.

I guess many people like me will also say YES to one of the boxes without actually being able to converse in the Irish language, should this be cause for concern? or does it really matter if the Census says that 70% of the population can speak Irish (like me), when in reality its more like 10% who can 'speak' (can actually converse in depth) in the Irish language.

The poll attached is my 'modified version' which includes an obvious admission (on their part) cupla focal

The last census, 2006, showed that 47% (Not 70%) said they had Irish.

I think the main problem with the census is that it ask's about frequency of use but not fluency. I think a question relating to fluency would give a more accurate result and would be more useful in the long run.


As for myself, I use Irish most days. I'm not fluent(Yet) but I can hold a reasonable conversation.

OPENROAD

deise go deo wrote: »

The last census, 2006, showed that 47% (Not 70%) said they had Irish.

I think the main problem with the census is that it ask's about frequency of use but not fluency. I think a question relating to fluency would give a more accurate result and would be more useful in the long run.


As for myself, I use Irish most days. I'm not fluent(Yet) but I can hold a reasonable conversation.

Maybe its just me, but to me the initial question "can you speak Irish" is straightforward and implies fluency or certainly a very good grasp of the language, does it not?

megafan

What I'm trying to do, is to show up the 'Irish question' for the farce that it is.[/QUOTE]


I'll have to say I can "no I can't speak Irish" on the census form.... I Can speak Irish little better than the bit of French, Spanish, Italian or German picked up on holidays, travel etc. over the years... I certainly can't say I can speak a foreign language & while I've been taught Irish (my national language) all my schooling years & surrounded with it daily it just never sunk in! Why? I dunno..

deise go deo

OPENROAD wrote: »

Maybe its just me, but to me the initial question "can you speak Irish" is straightforward and implies fluency or certainly a very good grasp of the language, does it not?

You would think so, but the results suggest other wise.

I think the answer may relate to aspiration rather than ability.


Perhaps if the question was 'Can you speak Any Irish?'

And then a Table with options ranging from between Cupla Focal and Fluent the result would be more accurate.

OPENROAD

deise go deo wrote: »

You would think so, but the results suggest other wise.

I think the answer may relate to aspiration rather than ability.


Perhaps if the question was 'Can you speak Any Irish?'

And then a Table with options ranging from between Cupla Focal and Fluent the result would be more accurate.

Fair point , those options would be good

Cú Giobach

Stained Class wrote: »

My problem with the 'Language Cranks' is that that they expect everybody to pay for their 'hobby'

I've got hobbies of my own..............Hmmm.... maybe, I should ask the Govt to buy me a new Fishing Rod..........or a set of Golf clubs....or....:rolleyes:

Yea spot on, the government shouldn't fund anything unless every man, woman and child in the state is interested in it or needs it.
Just think of all that money wasted on art, sport, museums etc....
It's a disgrace the government spending money on things that don't make more money, sure isn't the accumulation of wealth "the meaning of life".
Shocking carry on. :rolleyes:

In answer to the OP, option 1..Yes.

almostnever

My friends and I speak it at lunch at least once a week.

Vicxas

Fluent in irish, havent used it in years tho...

Dravokivich

Kneel...

blockedPaT

Yea i can but never used irish except for school

Paddy De Plasterer

Deleted User wrote: »

The question should have been a two parter, first part on the competency and the second part on the frequency.

most people with a few words answered they can speak Irish, which is false. When census results are released Gaeilgeoiri will say there are over a million irish speakers living here, when in fact there are only about 26,000.

Paddy De Plasterer

OPENROAD wrote: »

Maybe its just me, but to me the initial question "can you speak Irish" is straightforward and implies fluency or certainly a very good grasp of the language, does it not?

I have an admission to make I was an enumerator and Irish speaker. When door checking a census form on collection, I saw that one woman had said she could speak Irish and used it every day. I just said a few words as Gaeilge to her and she had not a clue ! Enumeration job is an ordeal for the pittance that is out of it, having to call to houses several times on delivery and collection. I reckon I hardly had 5 euro per hour for all the time i put into it. The really big money is for regional and field supervisors.