advice needed from springer owners

Remmie 223

Hello all
As some of you know i recently bought a springer pup IKC reg & from good lines. She was pretty thin when i got her, but the breeder told me she was off the bitch and on solids, she also had been vaccinated. So the first thing i did was bring her to the vet for the booster and a wormer. I gave her the wormer for 3 days as instructed last week. Yesterday evening i noticed her lame on the front right paw. When i had a closer look she did not seem to have any pain, but she seemed slightly bow legged in the front. I went back to the vet he said it could be RICKETS & gave me a dose to give her every day for two weeks. I gave her the first dose yesterday evening & to my delight she seemed better this morning. But after the day walking around she is not great again this evening.
Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

cavan shooter

Its a bit iffy that so much is wrong with the pup since you spent good money on him /her. I would hope the legs get better but if your worried, One of my best dogs had "Queen Anns Legs" as in the style of furniture and it never stopped him hunt, he was given to me because he could never be used for breeding.

Hope he comes round:)

Spunk84

Remmie 223 wrote: »

Hello all
As some of you know i recently bought a springer pup IKC reg & from good lines. She was pretty thin when i got her, but the breeder told me she was off the bitch and on solids, she also had been vaccinated. So the first thing i did was bring her to the vet for the booster and a wormer. I gave her the wormer for 3 days as instructed last week. Yesterday evening i noticed her lame on the front right paw. When i had a closer look she did not seem to have any pain, but she seemed slightly bow legged in the front. I went back to the vet he said it could be RICKETS & gave me a dose to give her every day for two weeks. I gave her the first dose yesterday evening & to my delight she seemed better this morning. But after the day walking around she is not great again this evening.
Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Remmie quick question, did the symptons of weakness in the paw happen before the worming happening?

It kinda sounds like what happened with my pup, well minus the rickets part:D. A few months ago i got the pup dosed for worms on a Thursday. On the Saturday i took him for a shot, he was all out running, also he wasnt fed before { ill come back to this point }.

So after i got back to the car from shooting i noticed the dog was dripping Silvia from his mouth, i put it down to running around. A few hours later i got a call from my sister to say the dog was weak and couldn't move. I went down to find him in a sorry sight, usually when i walk threw the door he is jumping barking and going mental but he just sat on the sitee with the niece, i knew something was wrong. He would take bits of meat of me and water so i thought he would improve with rest. I told my sister if he got any worse id bring him to the vet that night or the next day.

7am i got a call to say the dog got up and collapsed on the ground, so i rushed down picked him up and off to the vet i went. The vet thought it was an intestine problem and dosed him with all the medicine they had:D and kept him in. monday i got a call to say he was feeling much better and that it may just of been a stomach problem but he was a Okay now. I picked him up and he was alright, Tues came round and the symptoms came back and again i had to bring him back to the vet,

He lost alot of weight from Sat-Tues, he usually is skinny but he went as bad as a greyhound. When i was in the vet she was looking at his weight and it was just a slip of the tongue i told her that i had wormed him on the Thursday previous.

Then it clicked!!!!;) when i ran him on sat he hadnt been feed so he used some of his fat as energy, the worming medicine is put onto their skin which in-turn is absorbed threw their fat. When he burned the fat quickly it released pretty much an "Overdose" of worming medicine threw his system in one go

the vet said that would make more sense than a stomach problem as their was nothing she could feel obstructing him. As the dead worms "disconnect" from where they are in the body they sometimes leave the hole/wound open causing an infection, which then has the dogs white blood cells fighting the infection.

With the white blood cells fighting the infection the worming medicine runs a riot causing nausea, weakness throughout the body, watery stools, vomiting etc etc

So she pumped him with more medicine and he was on bed rest for 2 weeks. He gained his weight back and was alot better afterwards but it was just when you said the worming part i thought i would mention this;)

vixdname

I have a springer also and once when I gave him worming tablets he became really ill after them.
He ended up in the vets and was sick for a few days.

DavyDee

I know a lad with a bow legged springer, would have been a great dog but he never spotted the problem until it was too late now hes a pet! His pup was from a large litter and he didnt get enough calcium as the mother couldnt feed all the pups adequately. Might be worth another trip to the vet and see if the pup needs calcium tablets, in the meantime make sure u give the pup plenty of milk, creamed rice is also great for them when weaning as the transition from milk to solids is more gradual although your chap might be past this! Its no harm to give the pup plenty of milk until his bones get a bit stronger!

lb1981

When you worm a dog a lot do get fairly sick after it, vomiting ,diarrhoea etc.I wouldnt worry about that part.Are you sure the pup didnt just get a bit of a twinge in her leg jumping and running around.Check to see if badgercourt warloard is in her breeding a few lads in the club have and have had ligament problems with their dogs.

charlie10

friend of mine arrived with a pointer pup when he was supposedly ten weeks old and i knew straight away he wasnt as i had my fella from when he was ten weeks and his pup was tiny. about two months passed and i spotted one day his pup was lame on the front right paw. told him to take the pup to vets and she said he was calcium deficent and to feed him 5 times a day and in tiny portions so that he will store the calcium better. seems to be getting better now

Remmie 223

lb1981 wrote: »

When you worm a dog a lot do get fairly sick after it, vomiting ,diarrhoea etc.I wouldnt worry about that part.Are you sure the pup didnt just get a bit of a twinge in her leg jumping and running around.Check to see if badgercourt warloard is in her breeding a few lads in the club have and have had ligament problems with their dogs.

Badgercourt Druid in the breeding lb

snipe02

lb1981 wrote: »

When you worm a dog a lot do get fairly sick after it, vomiting ,diarrhoea etc.I wouldnt worry about that part.Are you sure the pup didnt just get a bit of a twinge in her leg jumping and running around.Check to see if badgercourt warloard is in her breeding a few lads in the club have and have had ligament problems with their dogs.

funny you should say that i have come across problems with badgercourt lines also and there seems to be a lot of young springers for sale with badgercourt in their pedigree ....... sure a worm dose might knock a young pup for six but usually only for a day or 2 max and the pup will begin to thrive again..... check how closely line bred your pup is.... close breeding can cause problems like bad formation and small weak pups if your not happy with your pup take it back to the breeder and be honest if he is genuine he should look after you hopefully this will turn out to be nothing but if nothings changed in a week i would go back best of luck

lb1981

Remmie 223 wrote: »

Badgercourt Druid in the breeding lb

More than likely the two dogs are related ,yeah any of the lads that have the badgercort in the breading (mainly warlord) the dog has had ligament problems from the age of 3 up.As has been mentioned make sure the breading is not too close ,i have seen owners bragging about how their dog has fifty FTCH in a five generation pedigree but when you have a look it is the same dogs being bread over and over again on the cert.

Remmie 223

I rang the breeder last night to ask him if there was any problem with the other pups, he said not. He did sound very surprised. He also trains gun dogs, so it's not just a puppy farm, but he said he would have more pups ready to go in 4 week & would see me right with a pup. Not quite as good breeding it seems. The problem now I have is it took some serious talking to bring the missus around to getting one dog two could be grounds for divorce:(

lb1981

If it is just a calcium issue then the breeder needs to take responsibility, one of my da's springers had 13 pups, so me and my sisters would take turns getting up and bottle feeding them to help the mother , every one of them survived and turned out to be big healthy pups ,after we sold them we had had people ringing up for to let them know if we were going to breed that bitch again.Still have one of them pups she is 14 now.

kermitpwee

lb1981 wrote: »

More than likely the two dogs are related ,yeah any of the lads that have the badgercort in the breading (mainly warlord) the dog has had ligament problems from the age of 3 up.As has been mentioned make sure the breading is not too close ,i have seen owners bragging about how their dog has fifty FTCH in a five generation pedigree but when you have a look it is the same dogs being bread over and over again on the cert.

Badgercourt Druid is a very rare line in a springer and is supposed to be desirable and there wouldn't be savage inbreeding in your pup. I now have an idea who the parents of your pup are! Heard on the grapevine bout those pups down here in mayo. The bitch was belong to a man that was an ex trialling man. I have been offered a sister of your pup! Small world Mayo is!

lb1981

Remmie 223 wrote: »

I rang the breeder last night to ask him if there was any problem with the other pups, he said not. He did sound very surprised. He also trains gun dogs, so it's not just a puppy farm, but he said he would have more pups ready to go in 4 week & would see me right with a pup. Not quite as good breeding it seems. The problem now I have is it took some serious talking to bring the missus around to getting one dog two could be grounds for divorce:(

If he is offering you a pup then he must be a decent bloke.Were them pups on donedeal about a month ago? if they were the same pups they did look to have good breading and look like they were being taken good care of

Spunk84

Remmie 223 wrote: »

I rang the breeder last night to ask him if there was any problem with the other pups, he said not. He did sound very surprised. He also trains gun dogs, so it's not just a puppy farm, but he said he would have more pups ready to go in 4 week & would see me right with a pup.

it is descent of him to offer another dog, you could of been fobbed off but very pleased he did.

Remmie 223 wrote: »

The problem now I have is it took some serious talking to bring the missus around to getting one dog two could be grounds for divorce:(

LMAO Remmie do the old switch a roo:rolleyes: she will not even know

kermitpwee

lb1981 wrote: »

If he is offering you a pup then he must be a decent bloke.Were them pups on donedeal about a month ago? if they were the same pups they did look to have good breading and look like they were being taken good care of

From what I have heard here in mayo the breeder is a decent bloke and the pups are very good lines. Problems can arise with animals, if he sorts you out what more can a man ask for. It's not ideal but thats life.

Nick_70

Might be complete nonsense but a vet mentioned that dogs can develop bad legs at an early age if they are walked too much on roads, paths etc. Sometimes people bring their pups on walks with them in the evening time etc, and the pups a little young for it. legs still growing.

Remmie 223

lb1981 wrote: »

If he is offering you a pup then he must be a decent bloke.Were them pups on donedeal about a month ago? if they were the same pups they did look to have good breading and look like they were being taken good care of

Thats the same pups lb

Remmie 223

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdvIse1WBX8
I don't mean to harp on, about this topic,:( but any of you that have seen problem in pups with calcium deficiency/ rickets/ or bow legs. Have ye seen anything as bad as this. I don't think she is in any pain, but she is not getting any better. I am just thinking will i have to put her to sleep in the future:( This pup was perfect at 8 weeks & 3 weeks on, see for yourselves

Spunk84

Jesus man that's terrible right there :mad:The way the pic looks that right leg Is turning in so either you might have to pay to get it fixed or it might be ok. Did the vet say anything???? In the space of a few week:eek:

Remmie 223

Spunk84 wrote: »

Jesus man that's terrible right there :mad:The way the pic looks that right leg Is turning in so either you might have to pay to get it fixed or it might be ok. Did the vet say anything???? In the space of a few week:eek:

She is fine in the morning, but after being on it all day, it gets very bad in the evening. The vet just says it lack of calcium.He gave me a multivitamin & mineral supplement, which I give her every morning. Today I put a support bandage on it, to see will it help

lb1981

kermitpwee wrote: »

Badgercourt Druid is a very rare line in a springer and is supposed to be desirable and there wouldn't be savage inbreeding in your pup. I now have an idea who the parents of your pup are! Heard on the grapevine bout those pups down here in mayo. The bitch was belong to a man that was an ex trialling man. I have been offered a sister of your pup! Small world Mayo is!

Badger court druid is Badger court warloards great grand father. just checked some papers .Just a bit of useless info for you:D

lb1981

Remmie 223 wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdvIse1WBX8
I don't mean to harp on, about this topic,:( but any of you that have seen problem in pups with calcium deficiency/ rickets/ or bow legs. Have ye seen anything as bad as this. I don't think she is in any pain, but she is not getting any better. I am just thinking will i have to put her to sleep in the future:( This pup was perfect at 8 weeks & 3 weeks on, see for yourselves

That turn in and bow is savage for such a young pup, did you go to a different vet just for a second opinion, i would and play thick just to see what they diagnose just to put your mind at rest.

dicky82

remmie,
i dont want to sound like a know it all, but i saw that ad on donedeal and i thought the pups looked younger than what the seller was saying. then when you posted your picture of your new pup again thought that the pup you had was younger than you had been told or that you had bought the runt of the litter. (nothing wrong with the runt by the way).

if you check a thread i started called santy came early you will see my pup at 6 weeks old, i have another springer and she is a very small slender dog, her and all her litter mates were small but from memory were still bigger than what i think your pup to be.

i know the breeder has offered you a second pup but ask yourself this, if you bought a new car and it had problems from the start, would you take a second car to ease your troubles. this is a young dog and you are haveing to treat health issues for simply walking around all day, what happens when you start to work your dog, when she is expected to cover alot of ground for a long time?? how is the leg going to hold up?

my thoughts would be to bring the pup back and ask for a refund. then i would source another pup from a differant breeder. i know it sounds tough but to be honest that leg looks awful and you said yourself are you going to have to put the pup to sleep down the line??

Remmie 223

dicky82 wrote: »

remmie,
i dont want to sound like a know it all, but i saw that ad on donedeal and i thought the pups looked younger than what the seller was saying. then when you posted your picture of your new pup again thought that the pup you had was younger than you had been told or that you had bought the runt of the litter. (nothing wrong with the runt by the way).

if you check a thread i started called santy came early you will see my pup at 6 weeks old, i have another springer and she is a very small slender dog, her and all her litter mates were small but from memory were still bigger than what i think your pup to be.

i know the breeder has offered you a second pup but ask yourself this, if you bought a new car and it had problems from the start, would you take a second car to ease your troubles. this is a young dog and you are haveing to treat health issues for simply walking around all day, what happens when you start to work your dog, when she is expected to cover alot of ground for a long time?? how is the leg going to hold up?

my thoughts would be to bring the pup back and ask for a refund. then i would source another pup from a differant breeder. i know it sounds tough but to be honest that leg looks awful and you said yourself are you going to have to put the pup to sleep down the line??

Thanks Dicky
I seen your pup & a lovely dog it is. I picked my pup from 3 pups that were left & they were all of equal size. My first thought was also to bring her back and get my money back & if it was a car that is exactly what i would have done. The last few days i have kept her front left leg strapped, there has been a big improvement. I am going to bring her for an xray this week & get a second opinion. I know i am a bit of a softie but she will never get a better home than here. I have always had fondness for animals, i also keep horses.
If i get a pup off the breeder which i can work, then i suppose that is as fair as i can expect. He could have told me to "F### OFF. thats the luck of the draw". I have spent allot of time with the pup and she is so eager to please, I'm afraid i have to do what ever i can for her.

dicky82

just wondering how this is pannig out for you remie??

Remmie 223

We had an expensive week this week. I took her to another vet with xray facilities. Her bones are not deformed yet because we acted early. The whole problem is she got a very hard start in life according to the vet. Taken off the mother too early. She is growing fast & with the lack of calcium "the growth plates in her legs were not forming properly". She is confined to a cage 2' x 4' for 2 weeks & on anti-inflammatories & multivitamin & mineral supplements. Her front paws are looking much better. There are no guarantees, but her future is looking much brighter. Hopefully she will repay me for all the time & money I have spent on her.
Thanks for asking Dicky

ronn

hope everything works out for you both:)

blackstairsboy

Unbelievably I have also today had to bring my Labrador pup to the vet with what I suspected was the early onset of rickets. I never before had experienced the problem and I was only made aware of it by reading this thread to be honest. I noticed a swelling and slight turn in her front left leg and immediately I thought of the picture of your springer on this thread. The vet diagnosed it as rickets and has given me calcium tablets and also recommended a puppy feed called Burns. He said it was caught early and he is very confident that she will fully recover. He is a top vet and has worked wonders before for us with various different stock. I will post a picture tomorrow of her and thank you remmie for highlighting this because without the thread it is very likely that I would not have copped it until it was too late.

dicky82

glad to hear that she is at least on the right track. i hope that you will be back on to the breeder with feedback that you have received from your second vet.
breeders are all too quick to tell you about how many happy owners they have from previous litters and they think they all know best.
when i used to breed the rotties all pups had two vet checks before they were sold. i only ever had one issue with a pup and the person who bought her was fully aware of this before they took her. (she was slightly over shot) only a trained eye would have noticed this.
anyway keep us posted on her progress and even im sure you'll be the one owing her with the work she does for you.

Remmie 223

After 3 weeks of vets, medicine, & having her confined to a small cage.:( I think she is going to be OK.
THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP AND ADVICE LADS:)
Have a look at the vid:Dhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_vPdz4Jf4w

Spunk84

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_vPdz4Jf4w

Excellent news Remmie She looks well, So did you get another pup in the end?

Remmie 223

Spunk84 wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_vPdz4Jf4w

Excellent news Remmie She looks well, So did you get another pup in the end?

No. no other pup & no contribution towards my sizable vet bills:mad:

Spunk84

[/QUOTE]No. no other pup & no contribution towards my sizable vet bills:mad:[/QUOTE]

What an as@hole, he should of give you ur money back:mad:

terminator2

you should post his name ,.....name and shame thats what i say

Remmie 223

Spunk84 wrote: »

No. no other pup & no contribution towards my sizable vet bills:mad:[/QUOTE]

What an as@hole, he should of give you ur money back:mad:[/QUOTE]
Ya i would like to name and shame him, on here, but i am sure it would upset the mods

terminator2

okay remmie im looking for a good springer pup from mayo can you recommend anyone

Remmie 223

terminator2 wrote: »

okay remmie im looking for a good springer pup from mayo can you recommend anyone

Lets give him a day or two:cool:

terminator2

you are too generous lad , it will be the rock you perish on .

Remmie 223

terminator2 wrote: »

you are too generous lad , it will be the rock you perish on .

All good things to those who wait the breeder just rang with the offer of a pup or money. He is sending on a few € towards the vet bills:D

Spunk84

Well that's fair enough, he could of turned round and said you see as you buy. At least he stands behind his breeding.

kermitpwee

Remmie 223 wrote: »

All good things to those who wait the breeder just rang with the offer of a pup or money. He is sending on a few € towards the vet bills:D

Delighted for you and your pup seems to be doing better, good luck.