[Article] Varadkar moves to break up CIE's board structure

n97 mini

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/varadkar-moves-to-break-up-cies-board-structure-2596251.html

By Shane Ross
Sunday March 27 2011
The new Transport Minister Leo Varadkar has decided to abolish the position of executive chairman of CIE, currently held by John Lynch.

The minister is replacing the old system of political appointments to key posts at the semi-state by advertising vacancies for non-executive positions. Mr Varadkar will appoint four separate non-executive chairpersons to the controversial semi-state.

Advertisements are to be placed in the national media shortly seeking chairpersons, not only for the parent company CIE, but also for its three subsidiaries, Iarnrod Eireann, Dublin Bus and Bus Eireann.

Interviews to fill the posts will be held over the next three months. At the end of the 12-week process, Mr Lynch will be stepping down.

The move contrasts sharply with the last Government's decision to appoint Marian McGennis to the board of Dublin Bus, just 24 hours before it left office. Ms McGennis is a former Fianna Fail councillor, senator and TD.

CIE's board has been the subject of criticism in recent months because of the presence of several board members associated with Fianna Fail. Chairman of the audit committee Paul Kiely was an associate of former Taoiseach Bertie Ahern, while board member Seamus Sheerin was a subscriber to ex-Taoiseach Brian Cowen's political funds.

The non-executive board members refused to appear before an Oireachtas sub-committee on transport to answer questions about corporate governance at the company.

Mr Lynch was due to retire at the end of March but has been given an extension until the new appointments are made.

Aard

Gotta love Leo.

mgmt

+1

Good Man Leo.

snickerpuss

Good to hear.

n97 mini

The appointment of Marian McGennis, who lives in Laois, and therefore would have little opportunity to use Dublin Bus, to the board of Dublin Bus was one of FF's more brass-knecked appointments.

Does anyone know is this can be undone or is the some legal/contractual reason it can't?

Cookie_Monster

so lots more positions, is he cutting any of the current ones, doesn't really sound like it?

dermo88

Finally, this 65 year old nightmare may be pensioned off to where it belongs.

I always thought that the holding company structure was a botch job to pander to unions and political appointees. This change will allow further reforms to take place.

n97 mini

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

so lots more positions, is he cutting any of the current ones, doesn't really sound like it?

I gather old positions, which were filled by FF-appointed cronies in the past, will now be filled by people from the private sector with the appropriate credentials for the job.

Aard

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

so lots more positions, is he cutting any of the current ones, doesn't really sound like it?

The way I read the article is that he's sacking the current appointed chairmen, and instead hiring four new ones (one each for CIE, IE, DB, BE) by interview. It sounds like they'll have a lot fewer powers, and instead the Minister for Transport will hold executive authority.

LXFlyer

Aard wrote: »

The way I read the article is that he's sacking the current appointed chairmen, and instead hiring four new ones (one each for CIE, IE, DB, BE) by interview. It sounds like they'll have a lot fewer powers, and instead the Minister for Transport will hold executive authority.

No - the Chief Executives of each company will hold executive authority, as it should be.

The minister has no (and should not hold under any circumstances) any executive authority.

dowlingm

Good start - well done LV, executive chairmanship is out of step with modern standards of corp gov but also Lynch showed no special reason to retain him - but should go further by dissolving CIE and then breaking up BE into Expressway and City Bus companies. Rosslare Harbour should be taken out of the Byzantine structure it's in now and merged with the other South East ports since it has zero synergy with the railway.

OurLadyofKnock

Good. Lets hope this is the begining of the end of the worst public transport provider in the history of Europe.


Maybe there is hope after all.

patrickmooney

I welcome this, but where does luas fit into the transport remit? Are they are solo player or will they fall into some public body at some point?

Judgement Day

patrickmooney wrote: »

I welcome this, but where does luas fit into the transport remit? Are they are solo player or will they fall into some public body at some point?

Maybe it should be handed over to Irish Rail and regauged to 5ft 3 inches.

Transportuser09

About time as far as removing Lynch is concerned. You could indeed question the need to have one holding company over the other three at this stage, as long as the positive effects of having sister three companies could be retained (Dublin Bus working with IÉ in times of distruption, etc) beyond the break-up.

Though under FG's wing I wonder could we end up with just IÉ being stated-owned at some point anyway. The splitting of the company into three entirely separate ones would make DB and BÉ ripe for privatisation, though whether or not FG last in government long enough to see such privatisation through is another question.

Whatever happens at least we'll get someone with experience of the road/rail transport industry at the steering wheel of CIÉ for the time being.

rainbowdash

Judgement Day wrote: »

Maybe it should be handed over to Irish Rail and regauged to 5ft 3 inches.

Yeah thats a great idea. Pity they didn't leave the 5ft 3 inches Harcourt street line alone in the first place.

DWCommuter

Transportuser09 wrote: »

About time as far as removing Lynch is concerned. You could indeed question the need to have one holding company over the other three at this stage, as long as the positive effects of having sister three companies could be retained (Dublin Bus working with IÉ in times of distruption, etc) beyond the break-up.

Though under FG's wing I wonder could we end up with just IÉ being stated-owned at some point anyway. The splitting of the company into three entirely separate ones would make DB and BÉ ripe for privatisation, though whether or not FG last in government long enough to see such privatisation through is another question.

Whatever happens at least we'll get someone with experience of the road/rail transport industry at the steering wheel of CIÉ for the time being.

Bit by bit if you don't mind.

as long as the positive effects of having sister three companies could be retained (Dublin Bus working with IÉ in times of distruption, etc) beyond the break-up.

For 65 years there has been a consistent disconnect across the various services under the CIE banner. Buses competing with trains, bus stations nowhere near train stations etc etc. I could go on all night. Its been proven that CIE do NOT do public transport in a half decent manner.

The splitting of the company into three entirely separate ones would make DB and BÉ ripe for privatisation,

So what? Do you fear it? Ireland has changed a lot since 1945.

Whatever happens at least we'll get someone with experience of the road/rail transport industry at the steering wheel of CIÉ for the time being.

Maybe we will, but it still doesn't solve the issue of why we have this monolith still in place when there is absolutely no need for it whatsoever.

Aard

@DW
How would you personally deal with CIE if you had the chance?

-Chris-

...Within the context of this change by LV.

The wider conversation has been had a million times and is part of a wider thread.

OurLadyofKnock

Transportuser09 wrote: »

Whatever happens at least we'll get someone with experience of the road/rail transport industry at the steering wheel of CIÉ for the time being.

You mean like Dickie Bird Fearn?

The killer of railfreight, the MK3 mothballer, the WRC fan, the killer of Waterford-Rosslare, the "rail professional" who canceled a regular service on the Limerick-Galway section so his trainspotter friends could have thrill while regular passenger were put on a bus, the bloke who was only in the job a couple of weeks and was putting banger locomotive on the Sligo line one saturday for the trainspotters again????

That guy?

Just because we might get an industry insider is no certainty we won't get another left over coming here looking for a easy gig while taking personal requests from trainspotters on the mainland...

I admire your faith. But I'll until we see what kind of "industry insider" we get.

DWCommuter

Aard wrote: »

@DW
How would you personally deal with CIE if you had the chance?

Thats easy.:D

For a start...

1. Wind up the CIE holding company and transfer relevant assets to the subs who would initially become individual semi states.

2. Appoint business people to the senior/board positions within each former sub.

3. Review/address work/management practices within each company. (Vital)

4. Separate rail infrastructure from services within IE. (separate accounting also)

5. Take on the unions. Its not a popular method with some, but it needs to be dealt with. There is no denying this.

6. Devolve all infrastructure decisions to a DTA and an NTA. (Dublin/GDA deserves a dedicated body and the rest of Ireland needs a defined entity as well.)

7. Service provision and infrastructure decisions need to be clearly separated.

Many decent people work for CIE, but the culture is so ingrained that it needs to be changed because it has failed in terms of public transport. It carries far too much historical baggage. The 7 points above is where it needs to start.

Beyond this we need to see the RPA abandoned. (Afterall it is nothing more than a state fudge to avoid tackling CIE)

Transportuser09

DWCommuter wrote: »

For 65 years there has been a consistent disconnect across the various services under the CIE banner. Buses competing with trains, bus stations nowhere near train stations etc etc. I could go on all night. Its been proven that CIE do NOT do public transport in a half decent manner.

All I meant was (and it is a small thing I admit) that I have no problem with CIÉ itself being dissolved, ut what co-operation there is needs to be changed so that customers do not lose out in the event of service distruption (the fact that DB accepts rail tickets during Dart works, IÉ accepting bus tickets during the snow, for example, are some of the rare examples of inter company co-operation). However, I don't believe CIÉ needs to retained to achieve this, just that there should be some provision kept for such circumstances.

DWCommuter wrote: »

So what? Do you fear it? Ireland has changed a lot since 1945.

I don't believe I indicated that I feared it. As long as PSO bus services are (a) retained by the state or (b) packaged with the commerical routes then no I see no fear in selling off the bus companies, although I believe that the likes of Busáras should remain in state hands (it would probably have to as the Dept. of Social Welfare has offices in the building). Rail is a bit more complicated but I cannot see full privatisation of rail services happening within the lifetime of this government anyway.

DWCommuter wrote: »

Maybe we will, but it still doesn't solve the issue of why we have this monolith still in place when there is absolutely no need for it whatsoever.

I am not sure on this one. The way things are, CIÉ itself doesn't serve much purpose. But, with a managerial shake-up, retaining the three companies under one roof would allow for greater co-operation/service connectivity, etc, but obviously there has to be the willingness to do this. However, this could become irrelavent if the bus companies are sold off.

Transportuser09

OurLadyofKnock wrote: »

You mean like Dickie Bird Fearn?

The killer of railfreight, the MK3 mothballer, the WRC fan, the killer of Waterford-Rosslare, the "rail professional" who canceled a regular service on the Limerick-Galway section so his trainspotter friends could have thrill while regular passenger were put on a bus, the bloke who was only in the job a couple of weeks and was putting banger locomotive on the Sligo line one saturday for the trainspotters again????

That guy?

Just because we might get an industry insider is no certainty we won't get another left over coming here looking for a easy gig while taking personal requests from trainspotters on the mainland...

I admire your faith. But I'll until we see what kind of "industry insider" we get.

Well, at least an industry insider (bus or rail) would have some knowledge about providing a domestic transport service to the public, not just a govt. appointee favoured by his political friends.

If we're honest Waterford-Rosslare would have disappeared over thirthy years ago had it not been for the sugar beet industry. There are examples of miniumum service lines operating in the UK so it's not neccessarily a CIÉ innovation.

I don't believe there was any service cancelled, apparently the railtour ran combined as the outward service train from Limerick to Ennis, and the railcar positioned to work the return train broke down. Open to correction on that but it was discussed on one of the forums (not sure if it was this, RUI or IRN).

I am not as worried about the sidelining of the mk3s in princple as I think we were lucky to get the new railcars when we did (ie before the recession), otherwise we could have ended up with clapped out mk3s in five years time and no money to repair them. But something should be done about using a few sets to help reduce overcrowding on some Western services. But what is done is done and I do not think we have much to fear in this regard from a new appointee. Unless he/she decides to mothball the 22000s!

antoinolachtnai

I'd imagine that the CIE company will become an asset management company of some sort, and the operating companies, as a result of having different chairs, will become much more independent. CIE could own the assets and lease them down to the operating company. Of course CIE could also lease the assets to someone else (in fact they would be bound to do so if required by the NTA under the DTA Act 2008). In this situation, the operating companies would not be so much subsidiaries as customers of CIE. At least this is what I would do.

The reason CIE had an executive chairman was because it just didn't have enough operations to merit a CEO. It was purely a holding company. It doesn't have anything in particular to do with corporate governance standards.

n97 mini

I wouldn't appoint another "industry insider" like Dick Fearne who purports to know something about something.

I'd hire the best business brain I could find, which would most likely mean someone with no history in transport, and no history working for a state-owned company.

markpb

Transportuser09 wrote: »

But, with a managerial shake-up, retaining the three companies under one roof would allow for greater co-operation/service connectivity, etc, but obviously there has to be the willingness to do this. However, this could become irrelavent if the bus companies are sold off.

Why do people think that having three out of the four operating companies owned by CIE will aid cooperation? DB already cover Luas when it's out of service so CIE isn't needed help there. DB and Irish Rail are both part of CIE but it's next to impossible to buy a bus + rail ticket (with the exception of a few crappy Dart feeder buses).

positron

-Chris- wrote: »

...Within the context of this change by LV.

I hope the new appointments have no policital or other connections, but is purely based on skill and abilities and is truely open to all applicants.

Openess / Transparency throughout the organisation, so the end user like me has a chance to understand why they are doing what they are doing, and a place to air my concerns and opininons while understanding other users's concerns and opinions, ie, democratic ethos in management and customer interaction.

shamwari

OurLadyofKnock wrote: »

You mean like Dickie Bird Fearn?
..... the bloke who was only in the job a couple of weeks and was putting banger locomotive on the Sligo line one saturday for the trainspotters again????

That was a seperate non-passenger special which raised funds for charity. In fact, not too dissimilar to events run by the RPSI.

However I agree with your previous calls to scrap CIE. That's long overdue. And Lynch should have been fired after Malahide...

shamwari

n97 mini wrote: »

I wouldn't appoint another "industry insider" like Dick Fearne who purports to know something about something.

I'd hire the best business brain I could find, which would most likely mean someone with no history in transport, and no history working for a state-owned company.

That's exactly what governments have done throughout the public sectors: they have appointed their own people to boards rather than those who have specific expertise and experience for those particular appointments. And in my mind, that is why some of our semi states are in such a woeful mess.

Fearn's experience made him a good candidate for his job. Some of his actions since have left me questioning him.

n97 mini

shamwari wrote: »

That's exactly what governments have done throughout the public sectors: they have appointed their own people to board.

They have appointed friends and relatives. No interview necessary. I'm talking about appointing business people recruited on merit.

AlekSmart

OurLadyofKnock wrote: »

You mean like Dickie Bird Fearn?

The killer of railfreight, the MK3 mothballer, the WRC fan, the killer of Waterford-Rosslare, the "rail professional" who canceled a regular service on the Limerick-Galway section so his trainspotter friends could have thrill while regular passenger were put on a bus, the bloke who was only in the job a couple of weeks and was putting banger locomotive on the Sligo line one saturday for the trainspotters again????

That guy?

Just because we might get an industry insider is no certainty we won't get another left over coming here looking for a easy gig while taking personal requests from trainspotters on the mainland...

I admire your faith. But I'll until we see what kind of "industry insider" we get.

Perhaps Leo V has his eyes on Europe for the game-plan....

http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/world-news/radical-eu-transport-plan-unveiled-2597460.html


Commissioner Kallas outlined a skipfull of stuff which Ireland,being a Knowledge Based Econony,is already well ahead on....

.He was unveiling plans adopted by the Commission on Monday for a Single European Transport Area, intended to set up "a fully integrated transport network which ... allows for a profound shift in transport patterns for passengers and freight".

And also.....

By 2050 the majority of medium-distance passenger journeys - those above about 190 miles - should be by rail and more than half of road freight travelling more than 190 miles should move to rail or boat (30% by 2030). All core network airports should be connected to the rail network by 2050, with all core seaports "sufficiently connected to the rail freight and, where possible, inland waterway system"

OH !,and I almost forgot Irelands speciality.....

A 50% shift of medium distance inter-city passenger and freight journeys from road to rail and waterborne transport.

SO....It`s little wonder Dr John will require 3 men in a boat to replace him....but it does raise questions about Europort Roslare,not to mention the Mailboat Spur at Kingstown !!!!

dowlingm

BE's alliance with GoBus on Dublin-Galway should have been the last straw in terms of CIE internally screwing itself (as if transferring Waterford-Rosslare without any commitment to continue serving the station wasn't bad enough).

IE should be told to get out and start making similar alliances with private operators *with through ticketing* to fill orbital gaps in its network like Tralee-Limerick, Waterford-Rosslare, Enniscorthy-Carlow-Portlaoise, Navan-Drogheda, Athlone-Mullingar, Athenry-Claremorris and so on where there is either no rail connection or no prospect of there being one in the next decade.

Similarly where there is just not enough custom for two trainsets like Nenagh-Limerick and Limerick Junction-Waterford IE should be allowed run a supplementary bus to facilitate stuff like commuting from Clonmel to Waterford or the train from Waterford not idling in the Junction to pick up from a Cork-Heuston service.

At railway stations like Limerick, Expressway should be told to either commit to an offer of integrated ticketing or be chucked out and told build their own station. Unfortunately we have no way of knowing if CIE committed to allowing BE contractual rights to be there. In any case if CIE is demerged you could see companies like Aircoach raising competition issues about BE having sole access to places like Colbert.

Pineapple stu

FG just want their own puppets in charge so they can pull their strings to their own advantage.

OurLadyofKnock

Pineapple stu wrote: »

FG just want their own puppets in charge so they can pull their strings to their own advantage.

Yep. Democracy is a scam. Tweedle-Dee/Tweedle-Dum

n97 mini

Yeah, democracy is over rated. Dictatorship is the way to go. Italy had a great train system when Mussolini ran the place.

-Chris-

Can we get back to discussion on LV's planned changes please?

Jaysoose

n97 mini wrote: »

They have appointed friends and relatives. No interview necessary. I'm talking about appointing business people recruited on merit.

This is part of a wider issue within state organisations were length of service somehow is taken as an indication of a persons quality and abilities. If Varadakar can somehow break this cycle of upper management positions being filled by career civil servants that have been selected on their ability to suck up to the right people then more power to him.

n97 mini

Jaysoose wrote: »

This is part of a wider issue within state organisations were length of service somehow is taken as an indication of a persons quality and abilities. If Varadakar can somehow break this cycle of upper management positions being filled by career civil servants that have been selected on their ability to suck up to the right people then more power to him.

I think if anyone can it's probably Leo Varadkar.

shamwari

n97 mini wrote: »

They have appointed friends and relatives. No interview necessary. I'm talking about appointing business people recruited on merit.

And so was I as emphasise below from my previous post

shamwari wrote: »

That's exactly what governments have done throughout the public sectors: they have appointed their own people to boards rather than those who have specific expertise and experience for those particular appointments. And in my mind, that is why some of our semi states are in such a woeful mess.

CIE

n97 mini wrote: »

I wouldn't appoint another "industry insider" like Dick Fearne who purports to know something about something.

I'd hire the best business brain I could find, which would most likely mean someone with no history in transport, and no history working for a state-owned company.

That's almost impossible to find nowadays, especially since public mass transportation has been nationalised or operated by local/provincial/equivalent state bodies in almost all countries in the Western world for about a half-century. As for "semi-states", don't let anyone be deceived that they're "semi" in any fashion.

AlekSmart wrote:

Perhaps Leo V has his eyes on Europe for the game-plan

I posted a thread on that subject a while back. Nothing good can come of that plan.

Judgement Day

n97 mini wrote: »

I think if anyone can it's probably Leo Varadkar.

You're probably correct as I suspect Varadkar politics and those of Mussolini would be pretty similar. Anyway, if he does goes messing with CIE he's asking for trouble - look at those who did - Lowry, Seamus Brennan, Michael McDonnell to name but a few. CIE - it's alive inside - somewhere down in the cellars under Heuston Station.

n97 mini

Judgement Day wrote: »

Anyway, if he does goes messing with CIE

He already has, and from the way he has spoken in a thinly veiled fashion about CIE I don't expect him to stop until the job is done.

Aard

Yes, there are advantages of him being a headstrong egomaniac! :P

Tbh, I think he'd kick ass in whatever Deparment he was put in.

AlekSmart

Aard wrote: »

Yes, there are advantages of him being a headstrong egomaniac! :P

Tbh, I think he'd kick ass in whatever Deparment he was put in.

Yes indeed Aard,there`s the whiff of a young Seamus Brennan about the fellow !!

However,it`s early day`s yet and the Departmental Briefings and Memo`s to Cabinet have yet to mount up on Leo V`s desk.

Have little fear that the relevant "Seniors" within the Association of Higher Civil Servants will have been probing the merits and demerits of "their" new-men over a glass or two of lunch in recent days....;)

Cookie_Monster

So this time next year what are we expecting "magic" Leo to have accomplished?

Real change?
Privatisation?
Face down the unions?
Nothing substantial?

n97 mini

AlekSmart wrote: »

Yes indeed Aard,there`s the whiff of a young Seamus Brennan about the fellow !!

Seamus Brennan was mildly competent, certainly the best of a bad lot, but I wouldn't give him any more than that. He was a FFer afterall, so anything other than lining his own pocket and the pockets of his friends didn't come naturally.

AlekSmart wrote: »

Have little fear that the relevant "Seniors" within the Association of Higher Civil Servants will have been probing the merits and demerits of "their" new-men over a glass or two of lunch in recent days....;)

Ah I think Leo is smart enough to know that to conquer you divide first. Retire a few and those you can't retire you can shuffle off somewhere else under the CPA.

mickydoomsux

This strikes me as a purely political move. Out with the FF appointed folks and in with hand-picked FG/Labour heads.

DWCommuter

Burn the CIE house down and be done with it. Its not rocket science, just fear.

Jaysoose

mickydoomsux wrote: »

This strikes me as a purely political move. Out with the FF appointed folks and in with hand-picked FG/Labour heads.

A change is as good as a rest, the current managment couldnt be any worse.

DWCommuter

shamwari wrote: »

And Lynch should have been fired after Malahide...

And Dick Fearn.

CIE

DWCommuter wrote: »

Burn the CIE house down and be done with it. Its not rocket science, just fear

And after that, nobody says what to replace it with. Not rocket science either, but absence invites possible chaos.

the current management couldn't be any worse

Famous last words there. Something could be worse than them. That's not an argument for retaining them of course, but it is an argument for clarity beyond their dismissal.