Do ye think Parthenaise cattle will catch on?

johnpawl

So I'm buying two pedigree parthenaise heifers this year with a view to starting a small pedigree herd.. Just wondering do ye think they'll catch on in years to come and compete with other breeds like charlaois, limo bb etc?? Any feedback appreciated....

Bizzum

johnpawl wrote: »

So I'm buying two pedigree parthenaise heifers this year with a view to starting a small pedigree herd.. Just wondering do ye think they'll catch on in years to come and compete with other breeds like charlaois, limo bb etc?? Any feedback appreciated....

What do you see as the strenghts of this breed over the mainstream breeds?

johnpawl

Bizzum wrote: »

What do you see as the strenghts of this breed over the mainstream breeds?

Well I'm not saying that they have huge strengths over other breeds, but they're supposed to have good milk, are double muscled, easy calved, good length, good weight gain and docility. Instead of looking at it from a strengths over other breeds perspective, I cant see why they wouldnt appeal to alot of people and hold their own in many areas.....?Also meant to be a good choice for calving muscled blues....

Juniorhurler

I am in the market at the moment for a parthenaise bull. I want to breed replacement heifers out of limousin cows which were out of british friesian cows. I think they should hold the milk from their mothers. I'll turn the blue bull back on the replacements then. Go for it I would say, they are not overpriced heifers, not a lot dearer than top class suckler commercials and a couple of pedigrees is a great hobby. I have a couple of limos and one blue pedigree heifer and love the buzz I get from them.

Bizzum

johnpawl wrote: »

Well I'm not saying that they have huge strengths over other breeds, but they're supposed to have good milk, are double muscled, easy calved, good length, good weight gain and docility. Instead of looking at it from a strengths over other breeds perspective, I cant see why they wouldnt appeal to alot of people and hold their own in many areas.....?Also meant to be a good choice for calving muscled blues....

Don't for a second think I'm putting you off. I'm only asking is all.
In fact, One of the most impressive cows I seen in quite some time was only recently at that beef breeding demo at Edenderry mart, she was a 3rd calver, PB Parthenaise cow with a heifer calf at foot by the BB bull BBQ.
To my mind she had everything a good cow should have.
I intend trying the Part bull IRX again on some of the 2nd calvers later in the year. (I have one lovely PartX calf off him already)

johnpawl

Ya, to be fair they look to be a good animal. Will have to invest a few euro to get started, prob be two years before i'd be anything up n running, wonder what'll be the pulic perception in the breed by then? Hear part weanlings are the nearest to making anything near the blues in a mart near here but they're still so scarce lot of farmers havent even heard of them. Just dont want to be few years down the road n sorry i didnt go down another route but cant see why that'd happen..

kay 9

Are they a bit more difficult to calf than the limos? Cheers lads.

leg wax

i hope they catch on but it all depends on the breeders and society they should have a look at the blonde men and see where they have gone wrong. a new breed of cattle are not going to take off in this country unless they get the weanlings out into sales which means that they have to sell bulls at cost for a number of years.if a breeder has a customer in his yard make sure he leaves with a bull and not go back to the other breeds out there,i think its stupid of breeders putting young bulls into factories at 1500 euro but will not sell private for 1800 euros, they are doing the breed only harm as well as their own pocket.get the crosses out in sales first and the pedigres will then take off.

irishh_bob

i know nothing about this breed , how do they compare to the big six , charolais , BB , limousin , simmental , hereford and angus , also , would the gene pool from which to fish from not be very small for the likes of this breed ( limited to a small number of A.I bulls ) how popular are they across europe , thier is usually a reason why a breed hasnt taken off in a big way

pakalasa

I think for Parthenaise cattle to catch on in Ireland, they will have to be bred to suit Irish conditions. If they fit into the same category as the Piedmontese, Blondes etc, then they wont.
To do this, they will need good feet to winter on slats. Good hair too to keep out the Irish winter. Good deep bodies, not tight gutted, to live off grass only, for most of their life. Good big frames, so that when they are sold as stores in Ireland, if they fail to meet the export trade, they will grow on to very big weights at slaughter.

Kinda describes the Charolais, doesnt it, the most popular bred in Ireland.....for very good reason too.;)

johnpawl

pakalasa wrote: »

I think for Parthenaise cattle to catch on in Ireland, they will have to be bred to suit Irish conditions. If they fit into the same category as the Piedmontese, Blondes etc, then they wont.
To do this, they will need good feet to winter on slats. Good hair too to keep out the Irish winter. Good deep bodies, not tight gutted, to live off grass only, for most of their life. Good big frames, so that when they are sold as stores in Ireland, if they fail to meet the export trade, they will grow on to very big weights at slaughter.

Kinda describes the Charolais, doesnt it, the most popular bred in Ireland.....for very good reason too.;)

To be fair belgian blue don't fit alot of this criteria?

pakalasa

johnpawl wrote: »

To be fair belgian blue don't fit alot of this criteria?

I suppose you could put the Belgian Blue in with the Piedmontese & Blondes. Because the BB are so extreme then the Parthenaise would have to be even more extreme to replace them.
A lot of people on here seem to think that they might make the best option as sucklers to be crossed with belgian blues. Maybe that's their niche.

It's just that every now and then, you see a new breed come into the country, but they never take off. They seem to be neither here nor there.

johnpawl

ya, hard to know with em. Fine lookin cow tho

pakalasa

They are supposed to be nice and quiet too. A lot of farmers tired of jumping gates to get away from limousins, might prefer them instead.:D

cows123

i woulnt think of them as one of the best breeds but they leave show quality stock to a belgian blue bull in fairness so i think they deserve to become popular.

reilig

pakalasa wrote: »

They are supposed to be nice and quiet too. A lot of farmers tired of jumping gates to get away from limousins, might prefer them instead.:D

What are they like for calving? A lot of people choose Limousin for easy calving.

vanderbadger

reilig wrote: »

What are they like for calving? A lot of people choose Limousin for easy calving.

in my limited experience they are extremely easy calved and are pretty lively to get up and suck, much more so that ch anyway

reilig

I wonder what's the buying like for them on the continent. I recon that about 40 out of my 60 calves per year go for export. 12 of my BB heifers were bought by 1 uk buyer for breeding last September. A lot of my other weinlings were bought for export to Italy. Has anyone here sold parthenaise cattle to export buyers?? If so, what sort of prices were to be had??

leg wax

i have sold 5 bulls in total, 4 in june 410 kilo at 1100 euro, and 1 in sept 380 kilo 840 euros.

pakalasa

leg wax wrote: »

i have sold 5 bulls in total, 4 in june 410 kilo at 1100 euro, and 1 in sept 380 kilo 840 euros.

Parth bulls, but out of what kinda cows?
Good prices, in fairness!

johnpawl

cow and calf here

leg wax

pakalasa wrote: »

Parth bulls, but out of what kinda cows?
Good prices, in fairness!

blonde and red lim cows. look up parts on face book some brill irish stock on it.

johnpawl

part bull calf off AA friesan cross cow

pakalasa

Some nice stock there in fairness.

This is now they compare with other breeds for Maternal Calving;
From www.icbf.com Aug 2010

Belgian Blue
10.02
Angus
9.29
Saler
7.46
Partenaise
7.29
Hereford
7.27
Commercial Cows
7.26
Piemontese
7.2
Commercial Cow Herds
6.80
Limousine
6.14
Blonde Aquitaine
6.07
Simmental
5.9
Charolais
5.78

As you can see, they are not great. But the Saler is worst.
The value comes from 890 records, compared to say the Limousin, which has over 45,000.

johnpawl

leg wax wrote: »

i have sold 5 bulls in total, 4 in june 410 kilo at 1100 euro, and 1 in sept 380 kilo 840 euros.

Have you any part calves this year?

leg wax

johnpawl wrote: »

Have you any part calves this year?

no

vanderbadger

leg wax wrote: »

no

going off topic a bit but do you breed any Ch cattle wax? or do you stick with the blues/ muscle cattle pretty much, thats was great money for those part calves, do you start creep feeding as soon as calves go out or do you start out in the season and how much importance do you attribute to creep in terms of your end product, also what creep feed or mix do you use?

leg wax

vanderbadger wrote: »

going off topic a bit but do you breed any Ch cattle wax? or do you stick with the blues/ muscle cattle pretty much, thats was great money for those part calves, do you start creep feeding as soon as calves go out or do you start out in the season and how much importance do you attribute to creep in terms of your end product, also what creep feed or mix do you use?

no ch cattle here, only blues blondes parts and the odd lim.those part bulls got meal indoors with all the rest of the calves, about 1-2 kilos a day from around dec to mid feb they went out to grass no meal.the muscle or weight fell off them after that a sale date was set for the end of june they went on add lib for 6 weeks before, they ate 100 euros worth of meal each in that time,the meal was a red mills mix costing 245 a ton[now 298]. meal puts more muscle on the cattle not fat,i will not put a ordinary weanling on add lib because its a waste of money she or he will only put on fat and not even the irish farmers want that, i have done things different this year and it has not worked out so far, i thought i could get away without meal in the shed now they have not grown also they got ibr the 2 together a disaster they were on barley and peas in the shed,they have been out now since 25 feb on the cows and have filled out they will be weaned in about 2 weeks time and with the price of meal this year i will feed in troughs for 100 days and am thinking of giveing them only 300 kgs each so it will still be 100 euros worth.i think the meal is very important to finish off my product before sale.

johnpawl

I'll stick up a few photos of the heifers later on in the year anyway see what ye make of em. Think I'll chance on with parthenaise and see how they go, thanks for the replies...!!

Waddy

where you goin buying importing or breeder? what wud be the price range for a good incalf heifer??

Bodacious

Used my first Part straw today Universal (UNI) is all my ai man had, would have preferred Sansonnet SNX? Red Lim cow only 5 weeks calved:D

johnpawl

Waddy wrote: »

where you goin buying importing or breeder? what wud be the price range for a good incalf heifer??

A breeder, was thinking of going the import route but too much money for me yet... I've been told the top breeders are paying between 6 and 8 grand for top quality in calf heifers in France, how accurate this is I don't know. I didnt price 'em in Ireland. Upwards of 2K for weanling heifers in Ireland..

bogman_bass

A 2 year old heifer cost me 2800.
Big money but she is well bred out of a french cow. Put her in calf to IRX. Hopefully she'll produce the goods in September

AtillaTheHun

Hi Pakalasa.
i'd be curious to see that paper but i dont see it on their website.
Can you post a direct link?

Atilla

pakalasa wrote: »

Some nice stock there in fairness.

This is now they compare with other breeds for Maternal Calving;
From www.icbf.com Aug 2010

Belgian Blue
10.02
Angus
9.29
Saler
7.46
Partenaise7.29
Hereford
7.27
Commercial Cows
7.26
Piemontese
7.2
Commercial Cow Herds
6.80
Limousine
6.14
Blonde Aquitaine
6.07
Simmental
5.9
Charolais
5.78

As you can see, they are not great. But the Saler is worst.
The value comes from 890 records, compared to say the Limousin, which has over 45,000.

pakalasa

http://www.icbf.com/services/evaluations/beef.php

It's the 2nd one down, the Excel file link, for Breed Percentiles.
I extracted it from this. Current one is now at Dec 2010

AtillaTheHun

pakalasa wrote: »

http://www.icbf.com/services/evaluations/beef.php

It's the 2nd one down, the Excel file link, for Breed Percentiles.
I extracted it from this. Current one is now at Dec 2010

sound.
will take me a couple hrs to digest that lot:D

pakalasa

I just look at the 'mean' column. You can sort the values using SORT in MS Excel to see how the different traits compare across the breeds.
There is an incredible amount of info there. ICBF must be world leaders in this regard. That's why it's important for farmers to take the time and record data sent via the suckler scheme, calf registration etc as accuratly as they can.

Pat the lad

Hi Leg Wax. Great price for those part weanlings. Have you used part again this time around! If so what bulls? What were the ones you sold after - SNX ?. Have kept any heifers for replacements?

Also, just on the barley and peas you fed this year- was that a whole crop feed?. I was thinking of growing a wholecrop mix myself, so that I could reduce/ eliminate having to buy meal. Do you think wholecrop could replace meal?

leg wax

i am useing cbq on all the bad cows this year, the bulls were under cows that i bought so dont know what they were by.yes kept 4 heifers and they are in calf to my blue bull, time up in july.barley and peas are only sown here when reseeding ground, the calves go really mad for it and yes i think you can cut out meals with it, if the crop of barley produced only 2 tons of grain i recon and this is not acurate that 30 cows +calves were getting 400kgs of barley a day in the diet but for them to get that full amount it has to go into a pit.

UPCS

I haven't been on, for a while. The parthenaise are starting to take off, we have noticed that their is more people wanting them. We have been organising a sale of crossbred parthenaise heifers between 11months and 24months, cows with calfs and pedigree stock bulls at our local mart, on the 27th of april. If you go to www.unitedparthenaise.co.uk, There is a photo of the cow and calf in the bulls for sale page, she is a crossbred with a 3/4 bred calf on her that we bred ourselves, he is out of one of our stock bulls.

PureClaas

pakalasa wrote: »

I think for Parthenaise cattle to catch on in Ireland, they will have to be bred to suit Irish conditions. If they fit into the same category as the Piedmontese, Blondes etc, then they wont.
To do this, they will need good feet to winter on slats. Good hair too to keep out the Irish winter. Good deep bodies, not tight gutted, to live off grass only, for most of their life. Good big frames, so that when they are sold as stores in Ireland, if they fail to meet the export trade, they will grow on to very big weights at slaughter.

Kinda describes the Charolais, doesnt it, the most popular bred in Ireland.....for very good reason too.;)

To do this, they will need good feet to winter on slats: Well this is already a trate, they have the strong black hoofs: CHECK

Good hair too to keep out the Irish winter: The thick hide makes up here put it like this your needle wont get ya too many injections before change lol : CHECK

Im not too sure how there gona work as stores it would be a total waste of money using these cattle as stores because your basically throwing away all there gains.

As for the export trade there as well rated for the Itallian market as the BB only thing is there not there to meet demand simple as

Hope this info is a help

pakalasa

PureClaas,
Do you breed any pedigree cattle yerself?

johnpawl

well lads, here are the heifers i was on about, march born

moy83

some muscle there lovely heifers

Muckit

johnpawl wrote: »

well lads, here are the heifers i was on about, march born

Now that's one sweet heifer to breed from on the right. Good muscle, good length, level top and good fem qualities ie. small head and long neck.

Can't comment as much on the one on left the way she's standing, but seems nice too.

Have you them bought? Best of luck with them

johnpawl

moy83 wrote: »

some muscle there lovely heifers

Sound, hope they do the business now.....

johnpawl

Muckit wrote: »

Now that's one sweet heifer to breed from on the right. Good muscle, good length, level top and good fem qualities ie. small head and long neck.

Can't comment as much on the one on left the way she's standing, but seems nice too.

Have you them bought? Best of luck with them

Thanks. Ya I've deposit paid on those two, collect in a months time, had them booked as calves delighted with how they turned out

moy83

johnpawl wrote: »

Sound, hope they do the business now.....

Im sure they will . Good luck with them

johnpawl

a better view of the second one here

johnpawl

moy83 wrote: »

Im sure they will . Good luck with them

Sound, thats what I was telling the credit union too last mon night:)

PureClaas

Whats there Sire and ages johnpawl??