Black Swan ...it's all LIES!

Richard Dower

http://insidemovies.ew.com/2011/03/25/portman-black-swan-double/

:mad:

You guys prasing Natalie, she faked the whole thing!

Couchkitten

Sure there isn't a massive amount of dancing in it! I thought it was great because of the visuals ... and the acting obviously. But I have to say, as someone who loves dancing, I was disappointed by the lack of ballet!

Hank_Jones

Seriously, she did as much as 5%?

Thought she did none of it.

the_monkey

I knew it ... that Millipied prick is a sneaky cu nt anyway.

bnt

Well, duh - I think I said as much back on the original thread. You can not dance en pointe (on tip-toes) unless you've been taught to do it safely over years of training. You might be able to get up there on a one-off basis, like Kate Winslet in Titanic, but Black Swan has only a couple of long shots that appear to show Natalie doing that, and that's clearly a double.

But I expected as much going in, and it didn't detract from the film for me. I don't remember reading anything in which Natalie claims to have become a proper ballerina, and I don't think she won the Oscar on that basis, but rather for her dramatic performance. If you see the film again, try and find a shot that shows Natalie's legs at the same time as her legs doing ballet footwork. Even Millepied says Sarah Lane "just did the footwork" among other things. Um ... without the formal footwork, you might have dance, but you don't have ballet! :pac:

Richard Dower

Richard Dower wrote: »

http://insidemovies.ew.com/2011/03/25/portman-black-swan-double/

:mad:

You guys prasing Natalie, she faked the whole thing!

I sincerely doubt anyone actually believed she did it

krudler

In other news, Arnold Schwarzenegger isnt actually half man half cyborg, fans are said to be saddened at the announcement after the long time star came clean about his most famous role.

Nolanger

Same story 25 years ago with Flashdance.

al28283

Did you know Harrison Ford doesn't do his own archaeology?

i57dwun4yb1pt8

and there was me all my life wondering how Alec Guiness managed to get cut in half AND vanish in star wars .

must have been a bit of movie trickery , the b@stards.

kraggy

al28283 wrote: »

Did you know Harrison Ford doesn't do his own archaeology?

HA HA. I dig that

johnny_ultimate

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acting

Hyperbolic thread titles contains some serious meta-commentary on the nature of fiction.

Sleazus

You mean that an actress pretended to be something that she isn't? And that people actually rewarded her for pretending really well? And they used some sort of "double" for a scene physically impossible for the performer in question?

In other Oscar-busting news, James Franco did not saw his own arm off in 127 Hours.

And I agree with the poster above who was impressed it was even 5%.

Magic Eight Ball

Richard Dower wrote: »

http://insidemovies.ew.com/2011/03/25/portman-black-swan-double/

:mad:

You guys prasing Natalie, she faked the whole thing!

OMG!?! :eek:

Do we need to go over the diagram again Dougal?

Outkast_IRE

I believe she won the award for acting ! If she won any for dancing then someone might actually care.

Sad Professor

This has actually turned into quite the controversy, prompting Aronofksy to release the following statement to EW:

“Here is the reality. I had my editor count shots. There are 139 dance shots in the film. 111 are Natalie Portman untouched. 28 are her dance double Sarah Lane. If you do the math that’s 80% Natalie Portman. What about duration? The shots that feature the double are wide shots and rarely play for longer than one second. There are two complicated longer dance sequences that we used face replacement. Even so, if we were judging by time over 90% would be Natalie Portman.

And to be clear Natalie did dance on pointe in pointe shoes. If you look at the final shot of the opening prologue, which lasts 85 seconds, and was danced completely by Natalie, she exits the scene on pointe. That is completely her without any digital magic. I am responding to this to put this to rest and to defend my actor. Natalie sweated long and hard to deliver a great physical and emotional performance. And I don’t want anyone to think that’s not her they are watching. It is.”

indough

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyoWmkhRyp8

I genuinely don't understand the shock horror of any of this. Was it ever stated that Natalie Portman did 100% of all the dancing? Are the same people who complain about this complaining about the fact that a lot of actors don't do their own stunts?

folan

wait......hang on..........

so it wasnt a documentary?

Duggy747

I went into expecting a Blaxploitation movie about a cool-as-ice swan who fights against the man while fighting for dee ladeez!

I did get to see Mila Kunis eat Natalie Portman out, though

Busi_Girl08

Duggy747 wrote: »

I did get to see Mila Kunis eat Natalie Portman out, though

Turns out Portman used a double for that aswell. The whole scene was shot with state of the art CGI and animatronics

This movie's credibility is completely shot now.

Mark Hamill

Busi_Girl08 wrote: »

Turns out Portman used a double for that aswell. The whole scene was shot with state of the art CGI and animatronics

At first I was shocked and disappointed when you said this but then I realised that this means that there are animatronic Mila Kunis and Natalie Portman sexbots somewhere, which I must now find for :P .... I mean scientific purposes, yeah thats right scientific purposes :cool: :pac:.

al28283

Mark Hamill wrote: »

At first I was shocked and disappointed when you said this but then I realised that this means that there are animatronic Mila Kunis and Natalie Portman sexbots somewhere, which I must now find for :P .... I mean scientific purposes, yeah thats right scientific purposes :cool: :pac:.

They are in Japan battling the reactor right now

Busi_Girl08

Sweet lord, what have I started?

johnny_ultimate

Busi_Girl08 wrote: »

This movie's credibility is completely shot now.

No, I'm sorry but it just isn't. IMO this is a bit of a ludicrous storm in a teacup. Natalie Portman still gave a spectacularly involved performance when she wasn't dancing. Darren Aronofsky's direction was still pounding, vibrant and engaging. None of this changes anything in my book.

If it claimed to be a documentary and the subject turned out to be an actor, yes: call foul! If this was King of Kong (which has a number of editing credibility issues, although is still ludicrously entertaining) and Billy Mitchell turned out to be played by a man in a Billy Mitchell mask in a number of pivotal scenes, I'd be annoyed.

This is a fiction film in which people portrayed fictional characters by acting. I didn't come out of Black Swan thinking "Wow, Natalie Portman was a great dancer" I came out thinking "Wow, Natalie Portman gave an emotionally intense performance". Nothing has changed, no credibility has been shot.

Busi_Girl08

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

No, I'm sorry but it just isn't. IMO this is a bit of a ludicrous storm in a teacup. Natalie Portman still gave a spectacularly involved performance when she wasn't dancing. Darren Aronofsky's direction was still pounding, vibrant and engaging. None of this changes anything in my book.

For the record, I was joking.

And I agree with you.

Busi_Girl08

Busi_Girl08 wrote: »

This movie's credibility is completely shot now.

It's in the toilet much like the credibility of Transformers, after all it recently came to light that Michael Day did not in fact hire actual transformers for the film but instead relied on the film making tools at his disposal to give the impression of such. Brad Pitt's reputation also took a downward turn since it became common knowledge that he did not in fact age back ward for Bnjamin Button, really I can't take the film seriously after hearing that.

johnny_ultimate

Busi_Girl08 wrote: »

For the record, I was joking.

And I agree with you.

Fair enough, problem with tone on the internet sometimes :pac:

But there are a few people genuinely upset about it, and that is what boggles my mind!

Basq

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Fair enough, problem with tone on the internet sometimes :pac:

johnny_ultimate

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Fair enough, problem with tone on the internet sometimes :pac:

But there are a few people genuinely upset about it, and that is what boggles my mind!

But if you consider who started the thread and seemed outraged by it all then it puts things in perspective. Everyone knew a stunt double was used, anyone who genuinely believed that Portman could learn a life times work of ballet in a few months preproduction was delusional.

johnny_ultimate

I always find young pacman here a good signifier of playful tone.

:pac: :pac: :pac:

Old roll eyes just makes things worse :rolleyes:

Busi_Girl08

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

I always find young pacman here a good signifier of playful tone.

:pac: :pac: :pac:

Old roll eyes just makes things worse :rolleyes:

I'd thought the suggestion that the lesbo scene was done with animatronics would have done the trick :pac:

johnny_ultimate

Busi_Girl08 wrote: »

I'd thought the suggestion that the lesbo scene was done with animatronics would have done the trick :pac:

Alas, this is Hollywood we're talking about

Mellor

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Fair enough, problem with tone on the internet sometimes :pac:

But there are a few people genuinely upset about it, and that is what boggles my mind!

The fact that he was talking about Mila Kunis gettign it one with Portman should be the queue it was a joke tbh

Though, I did get a luagh out of you missing the point :pac:

Magic Eight Ball

Barbara Hershey gave the best performance of the film anyways.

Did you hear that George Clooney never actually operated on anybody in ER? :mad:

MisterAnarchy

Deleted User wrote: »

Did you hear that George Clooney never actually operated on anybody in ER? :mad:

Well I dont ever recall George blowing his trumpet that he trained to be a doctor for 14 hours a day for 6 months .

LittleBook

One of the best posts I ever read on IMDb was the reply to some joker (hopefully!) who asked in "I Need To Know" if Gary Sinise actually had his legs amputated for Forrest Gump ... "yes, such is his dedication to his craft that Gary Sinise actually had his legs amputated in order to win the part of Lt. Dan in Forrest Gump. Don't worry though, they kept his legs on ice and re-attached them when filming was complete." :pac:

Sad Professor

This whole thing has been blown out of all proportion by the media. Everyone (Aronofsky, Lane, the choreographer) is more or less confirming what the other has said and the media is making out there's some huge conflict. Despite being a entertainment magazine, EW doesn't understand how movies get made.

Lane says most (90 percent+) of the full body shots are her, which they are - there's no way Portman could have done them herself. But such shots take up a very small part of the film. Most of the dancing scenes consist of medium shots and close-ups which are obviously Portman, so in terms of screen-time 80-90 percent of the dancing is Portman like Aronofsky says.

Goldstein

What's this blasphemy!?

Next they'll be saying Sly was only pretending to beat up Mr. T and Dolph.

MisterAnarchy

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Well I dont ever recall George blowing his trumpet that he trained to be a doctor for 14 hours a day for 6 months .

Well considering that Portman was able to do some pretty difficult ballet moves, then it's clear that she did do that much work on it.

G-Money

Phew! For a second I was worried that you meant the lesbian scenes were all lies and not real! Who cares about the dancing :cool:

Richard Dower

You guys are missing the point, they SOLD this movie on the basis that Protman was some kinda of prodigy able to knock out advanced ballet moves inside of 18 months.

As it turned out they pulled a Flashdance!....imo it DOES tarnish the movie and her win, why?....because they tried to CON the public!!!!!!

al28283

You are missing the point

Richard Dower wrote: »

because they tried to CON the public!!!!!!

No.... they didn't

johnny_ultimate

Richard Dower wrote: »

You guys are missing the point, they SOLD this movie on the basis that Protman was some kinda of prodigy able to knock out advanced ballet moves inside of 18 months.

As it turned out they pulled a Flashdance!....imo it DOES tarnish the movie and her win, why?....because they tried to CON the public!!!!!!

Darren Aronfsky directs Natalie Portman sold it to me, and I'm sure many thousands upon thousands of others. Also, the poster was pretty epic.

Richard Dower

Richard Dower wrote: »

You guys are missing the point, they SOLD this movie on the basis that Protman was some kinda of prodigy able to knock out advanced ballet moves inside of 18 months.

As it turned out they pulled a Flashdance!....imo it DOES tarnish the movie and her win, why?....because they tried to CON the public!!!!!!

What in God's name are you talking about? Seems to be complete and utter crap as usual from you Richard. The film Black Swan was sold on its critically acclaimed director, award-winning actors and a script which was receiving all kinds of early awards buzz. Not once did they ever attempt to sell the film on the fact that one of its stars was some ballet prodigy. Anyone who seriously believed that an actress could pick up ballet abilities that take most dancers decades of training in a few months is for want of a better word an idiot.

Also Richard the Oscars are awarded for ACTING ABILITY not dancing, if that were the case then I'm sure the stars of you favourite Street Dance 3D would all have been in attendance on the night.

You'd best steer clear of Transformers 3 Richard, don't want you to leave the cinema feeling let down due to the fact that Michael Bay who sells the film on the basis of giant robots fighting doesn't actually employ real robots but rather use the tools available to him as a film maker.

krudler

Richard Dower wrote: »

You guys are missing the point, they SOLD this movie on the basis that Protman was some kinda of prodigy able to knock out advanced ballet moves inside of 18 months.

As it turned out they pulled a Flashdance!....imo it DOES tarnish the movie and her win, why?....because they tried to CON the public!!!!!!

she got an oscar for her acting not her dancing, and I dont know of a single person who thought she did everything we see in the movie

bnt

Richard Dower wrote: »

You guys are missing the point, they SOLD this movie on the basis that Protman was some kinda of prodigy able to knock out advanced ballet moves inside of 18 months.

Who are "they"? Agents? Publicists? Marketing types? Anyone else totally ignorant of what it takes to learn ballet from a young age?

I mean, I don't know all that much about it either, but even a rudimentary knowledge of ballet tells you that no actor or actress is going to come in and learn all the formal footwork in a matter of months. It's not like Joaquin Phoenix learning a few guitar chords to play Johnny Cash. The process of learning ballet actually affects how your body develops, how the bones in a ballerina's feet knit together, how they walk and how they carry themselves. If you got the chance to see The Red Shoes, you could see that Moira Shearer was a ballerina even when she wasn't dancing.

I didn't know how they were going to handle that in the movie before I saw it, but I soon found out: many, many shots of Natalie, dancing, from the waist up. I wasn't expecting much more, frankly, and don't see what all the fuss is about. It's the Movies, after all ... :pac:

Fysh

krudler wrote: »

I dont know of a single person who thought she did everything we see in the movie

Well, you do now - the only way this utterly ridiculous thread would have gotten a start is if Richard was daft enough to somehow conclude that Portman did in fact perform every dancemove shown in the film, based on the fact that she was playing the part of a ballerina.

Of course, if he did reach that conclusion he's got nobody to blame but his own defective brainmeat, but then having seen some of his other contributions to the film & TV fora that's not exactly a surprise...

krudler

Fysh wrote: »

Well, you do now - the only way this utterly ridiculous thread would have gotten a start is if Richard was daft enough to somehow conclude that Portman did in fact perform every dancemove shown in the film, based on the fact that she was playing the part of a ballerina.

Of course, if he did reach that conclusion he's got nobody to blame but his own defective brainmeat, but then having seen some of his other contributions to the film & TV fora that's not exactly a surprise...

I nearly choked on a mouthful of coffee, thanks :pac:

johnny_ultimate

I wouldn't dare close this hilarious thread, but I will say let's tone down the personal abuse. If ludicrous arguments are made, though, they deserve to be countered. No need for insults in the process