Calling all Nissan LEAF Owners in Ireland...

paul.mcd

NewApproach - thanks for the feedback, and a nice positive picture this time. Cheers.

cianof

Autocar have a good review of the Leaf. They drive it till battery is flat (BMS cuts it off). Overall the review is positive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcrtsQuOVGc

cianof

Driving an EV you can choose where you buy your electricity. This gives you a vote as to which power source you would like to support. That's 1 thing you don't have driving a fossil fuel car.

IMHO it's better to manage emissions at the plant rather than at the tail pipe. Just imagine making an adjustment to 1000s of cars to reduce their emissions. If you can do the same adjustment at the plant its much easier.

1 litre of petrol contains around 9.7kWh of energy.

According to pumps.ie the average petrol price today is 151.9c per litre

151.9/9.7=15.96 cents per kWh from petrol.

So, petrol isn't that expensive as an energy source when you look at the cost per kWh in comparison to buying electricity from the ESB (my last bill)

Including vat at 13.5%
Day rate I pay 17.09 cent per kWh
Night rate I pay 8.46 cent per kWh

My old EV takes 20 kWh @ 8.46 give to give me 80 kms
Total cost
8.46 * 20 = €1.69

1 km costs 0.021125 cent. The Leaf and newer EVs have much lighter batteries and are even cheaper to run.

If you do the same cost comparison per km with an petrol powered car based on the 9.7kWh per L you can see which mode of transport is more efficient in terms of energy usage.

It's a shame all vehicles aren't rated in terms of kWh per km it would make the whole issue of efficiency, energy consumption and comparison much clearer for consumers.

Timmaay

Anyone here actually got one yet? I am doing a research project on Vehicle drive cycles to see how the likes of motorway/urban driving etc effects the vehicle emissions, and it would be interesting to be able to see how electric vehicles are driven differently to normal vehicles in real life situations where they are just driven by normal people!

Basically if anyone has one, I would be interested in plugging in a datalogger that records how far the vehicle drives, what average speed it does and how often the battery is charged etc. So if you have one and are interested in helping me out drop me a PM please!

cianof

Just saw that segment about EVs on consumer show.

The hydrogen ftw comment was a bit of a clanger. It's pie in the sky!

There are so many problems with the fuel cells:
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/hydrogenandfuelcells/fuelcells/fc_challenges.html?m=1&

If people think EVs are expensive, fuel cell cars would prob be 4 time as much.

Even if they were affordable, the main problem is that the amount of energy to produce hydrogen is too great.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/energy/next-generation/4199381

It would be great if it was possible, but it just doesn't add up. Even Honda who developed the fcx-clarity seem to have come around to this conclusion.
http://www.honda.ie/contentv3/index.cfm?fuseaction=page&pageID=20057

paul.mcd

The hydrogen ftw comment was a bit of a clanger. It's pie in the sky!

Agreed Cian. It was nonsense to be talking about that in a segment reviewing electric cars. Regardless of the difficulties with the technology in the cars the infrastructure needed makes it unrealistic.

Nobody has a hydrogen production plant at home that they can top up a car with, but everyone with a car has electricity. It was almost an implication that people should "hold off" until the water powered car comes on the market. Silly comment.

Also I liked Eddie Hobbs' assertion that the Nissan Leaf and similar cars are only for the "ultra-rich". Great to be in such illustrious company here!

Sesshoumaru

paul.mcd wrote: »

Also I liked Eddie Hobbs' assertion that the Nissan Leaf and similar cars are only for the "ultra-rich". Great to be in such illustrious company here!

The hydrogen sound bites were irritating. But the assertion that you have to be earning 150k a year and you're only likely to buy the Leaf as a second car to your "Range Rover" so you can feel good about yourself was particularly rankling.

I own a Leaf, I don't earn anywhere near 150k a year (unfortunately) and it's my only car that serves my needs and my families (wife + 2 kids).

jackbauer

Hydrogen is the ultimate red herring of the automotive industry. To the uninformed it makes perfect sense. Clean burning , most abudent element in the universe etc etc. Right up there with the "Why not run a generator from the wheels of your ev and charge while you drive" brigade. Again on the face of it a great idea. Where does most of the hydrogen production come from today? Crude oil. Case closed.

The program was typically disapointing. Soundbites and negativity. Someone on this thread or another relating to the leaf mentioned the formation of an irish ev owner group. That is what is required to get some positive press going. Get interest going. Get people out for a drive. I personally couldn't give a toss what other people drive but i would be very hacked off if my kids face the end of the oil age without any alternative being in place.

n97 mini

cianof wrote: »

151.9/9.7=15.96 cents per kWh from petrol.

Of which less than 60% of the stored energy is turned into motion.

With EVs the figure should be closer to 80%, allowing for heat, and for charging inefficiencies.

Better again is natural gas, at around 4c per kw/h. Equipment can be rented in some countries that will fit to your domestic gas installation and turn it into cheap electricity.

Tho I have to admit I am surprised there is no market here for CNG-powered cars. Could it be because BMW/Audi/Merc don't supply any?

Timmaay

n97 mini wrote: »

Of which less than 60% of the stored energy is turned into motion.

With EVs the figure should be closer to 80%, allowing for heat, and for charging inefficiencies.

Unfortunately, in terms of tank to wheel efficiency, you are going to get nowhere near 60% for any conventional internal combustion engined vehicle! A modern diesel engine might achieve 60% efficiency when you are doing steady cruising on a motorway with a small diesel engine operating right at its design conditions, but this very rarely happens! More realistically, with normal everyday driving, most vehicles at best achieve about 16% efficiency if you consider the energy in the fuel, against how much energy you actually needed to propel the car and overcome friction and aerodynamic losses. This is because most of the time an engine is nowhere near its optimum design point, instead the vehicle is either idling, or accelerating/deceleration etc.

An electric or hybrid vehicle is better because energy is recovered during deceleration, and the engine does not waste fuel idling as it is turned off when not needed (for hybrids)

Daegerty

Timmaay wrote: »

Unfortunately, in terms of tank to wheel efficiency, you are going to get nowhere near 60% for any conventional internal combustion engined vehicle! A modern diesel engine might achieve 60% efficiency when you are doing steady cruising on a motorway with a small diesel engine operating right at its design conditions, but this very rarely happens! More realistically, with normal everyday driving, most vehicles at best achieve about 16% efficiency if you consider the energy in the fuel, against how much energy you actually needed to propel the car and overcome friction and aerodynamic losses. This is because most of the time an engine is nowhere near its optimum design point, instead the vehicle is either idling, or accelerating/deceleration etc.

An electric or hybrid vehicle is better because energy is recovered during deceleration, and the engine does not waste fuel idling as it is turned off when not needed (for hybrids)

60% for a diesel engine? which one is that? because I always thought the most efficient one was also the biggest diesel engine used on ships that gets around 50%

n97 mini

Timmaay wrote: »

Unfortunately, in terms of tank to wheel efficiency, you are going to get nowhere near 60%

My bad, a 4-stroke sitting on a bench will achieve 43%. The only way is down when it's in a car.

joebyrne

coffin wrote: »

Hi. I will hopefully be taking ownership of my new Nissan LEAF next week and I am looking to connect with other Irish Leaf owners, and indeed owners of other BEVs and Plug-ins. I think that together we can help ensure that the promised infrastructure goes down in a timely fashion, and can also work together on any other issues that may arise. If you are interested, or know of another group that already connects such owners together, can you contact me via a post on this forum. Thanks.

Hello I am a Nissan Leaf owner. Great Car. My only issue is the lack of a granny cable.

beazee

Drop in to say hello at: Irish EV Owners

Bandara

I emmmmmm, think electric cars are weally weally yacky, are super mean to baby seals and they all should be banned forever and ever and ever.

So there.












* hides behind vested interest

Needler

Has anyone bought a Nissan Leaf Nismo RC yet?

I wouldn't buy the normal leaf, but really wouldn't mind a tear off this yoke

celticcrash

Under 18,000 euro in the states, in Ireland over 30,000 euro,
and yes done the conversion. The good old Irish goverment will take 15,000 euro.

Needler

celticcrash wrote: »

Under 18,000 euro in the states, in Ireland over 30,000 euro,
and yes done the conversion. The good old Irish goverment will take 15,000 euro.

I thought there was no VRT and a massive subsidy on these even in Ireland

krissovo

I hope people dont mind dragging this thread up but I wonder if anyone can do the maths to see if I the leaf would be a suitable alternative to a VW golf. I think I am a good candidate for a EV but I guess I need to see maths.

I am looking to buy a VW Golf 1.6D Blue motion which should return over 60mpg for my trips for €27k with all the options I want. The leaf should be €32k for a similar spec.

I commute 96km's a day Monday to Friday with 60% motorway and 40% urban and at weekends approximately another 80kms. I rarely drive more than 100k's a day so long journeys are not an issue as we are two family and will keep a fuel burner on the go.

Neilw

In real life what's the range of this on a typical winters day, lights on, heater on, rear window demister and so on? All that has to reduce it's range considerably?

Sobanek

Nissan Leaf is a horrid ecobox. Can't believe I'd ever say this but I'd take Prius over a Leaf anyday...

mondeo

I'm just not a fan of that contraption either. I'd rather go to Smyths toy store and buy a pedal power tricycle with one of those tall red flags hanging out the back then risk stranding myself in a leaf with unpredictable range. 30k odd Jesus I can't imagine who would have the balls to do it.

For those who have bought one I admire your bottle and your ambition to be different.

beazee

krissovo wrote: »

if anyone can do the maths to see if I the leaf would be a suitable alternative to a VW golf.

Your daily mileage adds up to ca. 30k kms per annum.
Can Leaf owners confirm there is no annual service charge?
As no one wants Leaf I would assume insurance premium should be considerably lower.
As for fuel consumption spritmonitor and fuelly figures seem to be a better choice for any comparison.



Break even at end of third year (marked red).

jackbauer

Perhaps i'm just reading that wrong but I don't think the leaf (or any car) could do 100km on 120Wh of electricity

beazee

My bad in unit notation, should write 0.12 kWh/km => 12kWh/100km
Calculations remain valid.

krissovo

Cheers Beazee, awesome response!

Looks like the Leaf would suit my situation very well, could be a bit of a gamble with resale values or battery life.

carchaeologist

This is a 12/13 year old MK1 Prius. Not very eco friendly no matter what spin you put on it.

I'd like to see how those Leafs are after a few years use with owners who dont look after them to the letter.

Sesshoumaru

carchaeologist wrote: »

This is a 12/13 year old MK1 Prius. Not very eco friendly no matter what spin you put on it.

I'd like to see how those Leafs are after a few years use with owners who dont look after them to the letter.

I'm not arguing for or against a Prius as being eco friendly. I am not expressing an opinion on hybrid technology. But what are you suggesting? That we should stop trying to make incremental improvements? That technologically we should stay frozen in time until such time as we can build the perfect eco friendly car, built out of hemp maybe?

You could take a picture of any car in a dump and say "not very eco friendly".

Sesshoumaru

krissovo wrote: »

Cheers Beazee, awesome response!

Looks like the Leaf would suit my situation very well, could be a bit of a gamble with resale values or battery life.

If you're seriously interested in a Leaf then feel free to PM me. I'm an owner and several of us have formed a small group to try to lobby various entities on behalf of EV owners. You can talk to real owners and get non sales person answers to questions you might have and best of luck with whatever you buy!

Sesshoumaru

Neilw wrote: »

In real life what's the range of this on a typical winters day, lights on, heater on, rear window demister and so on? All that has to reduce it's range considerably?

This isn't from my car, I just got this from Google Images. But I can bring up the exact same display in my Leaf. Except in kilometres. There are 3 real time gauges, the largest one on the left shows you what the electric motor is consuming in kilowatts. Top right is climate control, this is heating, cooling, fans and demisters etc. Other Systems is kind of generic, but includes stuff like lights, wipers, bluetooth, multimedia etc.

Lights and wipers are automatic, I've never manually adjusted them. But in cloudy skies with heavy rain when the lights come on, lights + wipers + on-boards electronics together use approximately 0.5kw of power.

I haven't paid a whole lot of attention to climate energy in bad weather. At least not for front or rear demister. To be honest I've not had to use the rear demister yet. I know the front demister I've occasionally turned on for 30+ seconds to clear the front window, from memory it probably goes up to around 1.5kw while demisting the front window.

Something to keep in mind though is that the Leaf can do something no other car can in terms of climate control. With the Leaf you don't have an engine, so you don't need an engine running in order to cool or heat the car. So it has the ability to preheat or pre-cool the car on a scheduler. So I can tell my car from my phone, PC browser or from within the car to activate climate control at 7:30am on Monday to Friday and 10am on Saturday to Sunday (or not at all on the weekend). The advantage of this is that when you come out to your car it is already fully heated/demisted and it used power from the charger, not the battery.

So the answer to your question is probably no affect on range if you have climate control scheduled to activate in the morning before you come out and your commute isn't so long. If your commute is longer then the scheduled climate control will lessen the impact, but range will still be affected. Future Leafs will come with winter packs which will include heated seats. Heated seats are more energy efficient than air blowers, so for our climate I don't think it will be much of an issue. But I'll probably make a few posts about winter range once I've experienced it.