Humiliated!!! :(

poozers

i'll try make this short...im 25, a girl, and at the moment doing an evening creative writing class. i was describing a character idea i had researched and said he (the character) is "midly retarded" (which is the term i found to describe him, his mother was an alcaholic and drank during pregnancy and it affected him mentally) ... i hope i havent offended anyone so far!

anyway, i finished my description and went on to the next student. I dont know how old this woman is, but she is in around her mid thirties i'd say. She isn't a very nice woman and find her quite rude (answering phonecalls in the middle of the class and not even leaving the room, questioning the teacher on nearly everything she says, even the smallest little details, quite condescending etc etc!) Anyway, she stood up for her character description (the only one who did) and mentioned her character also had special needs, and she looked down at me and said "the word 'retarded' isn't actually used anymore" and I said "i looked it up..." and she interrupted saying "i have a child with special needs" and continued on with her story! I was absolutely mortified! it was infront of ten classmates, and our teacher!

I had NEVER meant to offend anyone, and didn't feel i got even the slightest chance to explain myself! It was what I found when I was looking up the condition i wanted my character to have! I feel that even though it is a dated term, it was a technical term first before it became an 'insult' i suppose you'd call it... and I would have MUCH more appretiated and be extemely apologetic if she said it to me in private after the class... I had absolutely no idea about her child. I know I didnt think about who i might of offended by saying it, but I didn't see it as an insulting term when i was doing my research!
My confidence has totally been knocked! after she said that I just wanted to run out of there and crawl into a hole! I am so afraid of what my classmates think of me now, I feel like I'm ignorant and thoughtless! but im not usually ever, im extremely open minded!!! I dont want to go back next week.. The main reason i started the class was so i could read personal stuff out loud to strangers (which was said we had to do in the course description) and it was an effort to overcome my shyness! I want to say something to her next week about it, but whether I have the courage or not is another story! Confrontation like that absolutely terrifies me!!
am i being too sensitive???
is SHE being too sensitive???
Please give me words of advice! and pleeease tell me I wasn't TOTALLY 100% in the wrong

(i know i said id try keep it short, apologies )

Morag

Creative writing classes are not the place to deal with personal issues, go see a therapist or a counsellor.

Yes it is an offensive term guess you didn't find this site in your research into foetal alcohol syndrome.

http://therword.org/

Would you have refereed to a gay person as a fagg0t in your piece?

I suggest you do go back, that you go early and have a word with the facilitator and that you try and talk to the lady and stop being so judgemental.

But really a writing course/class is not the place for airing your issues.

tenchi-fan

"Retarded" is a perfectly legitimate medical term. "Retard", as a noun should probably be avoided.

And of course, the line blurs (e.g. O.M.G This computer is *so* retarded)

If you are describing an actual person I'd avoid using either "retard" or "retarded".

You were describing a character with an actual condition, so that woman went out of her way to take offence.

For future reference, "learning difficulties" or the euphemism "a bit slow" would probably be better terms.

poozers

me go see a therapist? personal issues??? i used the term to describe my character who i want to turn out to be the hero in the end of my story! There are no personal issues of mine involved, except that I want to write a story! and quoted directly from that website you gave:

"Some people have mental retardation (intellectual disabilities). While mental retardation is not a bad word, when used to describe someone or something you think is bad or stupid it becomes another thoughtless hurtful word."
I was NOT describing him in bad light, this character ISNT "stupid" or "bad"! I would NEVER use that word in the insulting sense!!

poozers

Sharrow wrote: »

Would you have refereed to a gay person as a fagg0t in your piece?

I suggest you do go back, that you go early and have a word with the facilitator and that you try and talk to the lady and stop being so judgemental.

But really a writing course/class is not the place for airing your issues.

I would NEVER EVER refer to a gay person as a "fagg0t"!!! why would you even ask that?!?!?!

do you mean me being judgemental??? have you even read my original post???

minidazzler

I don't think she's being sensitive, I think she's being a self-righteous bitch. It's creative writing OP you don't have to be politically correct. You were referring to your character, not her child. That would be like someone who has a black friend getting offended if you used a racial slur in a story from the point of a bigoted character.

Don't pay her any heed and keep writing, no need to be mortified, i would bet that most people there won't remember what it anyway.

That all said, Mental retardation isn't used as a medical term mostly because of the sensitivities surrounding it, it's simply been subsumed by other terms that in years to come could become equally "offensive". So, basically just forget about it, you did nothing wrong and she's just being a twat.

iguana

Sharrow wrote: »

Yes it is an offensive term guess you didn't find this site in your research into foetal alcohol syndrome.

http://therword.org/

The very first message on that site is that when used in the correct context, as it appears the OP's use was, there is nothing wrong with the word. That site suggests doing exactly what the OP did.

"Some people have mental retardation (intellectual disabilities). While mental retardation is not a bad word, when used to describe someone or something you think is bad or stupid it becomes another thoughtless hurtful word."

OP, I think that you were correct in your usage of the word and shouldn't feel bad. However if the woman in your class has a special needs child she may be very sensitive about it. If I were you I'd just do my best to ignore the incident and move on.

tenchi-fan

Sharrow wrote: »

Would you have refereed to a gay person as a fagg0t in your piece?

Sharrow, If you read the site, it actually states "While mental retardation is not a bad word, when used to describe someone or something you think is bad or stupid it becomes another thoughtless hurtful word."

This refers to calling someone "retard" as an insult. The op clearly did not do this.

This would be the equivalent of calling someone "gay" as an insult, regardless of their sexual preferences.

The word "******" is an offensive word (a noun) which means homosexual but can be used to insult anyone. The comparison would be valid had the op used the term "window-licker"

poozers

should i just leave it really? if i was to say something to her id say it in private, and very nicely, like "im very sorry and i didnt mean to offend you by what i said, but I felt very embarrassed in front of the class and wish you would have said it in private!" and maybe add " i felt i was using it in the right context, and havent even seen it as an offensive term"... next week is our last class anyway, and i'll probably never see her again...but i never stand up for myself like this and if i let this one go, i feel i'll totally regret it!!! thanks for all your replies, and support

johnboysligo

words depend on context, taken out of context anything can be offensive to anyone.
You are in a creative writing class if she can not understand context than she probably shouldn't be there.

poozers wrote: »

should i just leave it really?

it might not be a bad idea. You used retard to describe a characteristic of a fictional person. You did not use retard as a derogatory term for anyone present.

oh and fyi use special needs in place of retarded does not fix the problem it just trades places when used in the wrong context.

minidazzler

poozers wrote: »

should i just leave it really? if i was to say something to her id say it in private, and very nicely, like "im very sorry and i didnt mean to offend you by what i said, but I felt very embarrassed in front of the class and wish you would have said it in private!" and maybe add " i felt i was using it in the right context, and havent even seen it as an offensive term"... next week is our last class anyway, and i'll probably never see her again...but i never stand up for myself like this and if i let this one go, i feel i'll totally regret it!!! thanks for all your replies, and support

Standing up for yourself is all well and good, but if she felt the need to say what she said in front of the class, she probably was intending for a reaction. (I hate to be cynical but some people are just asses) My advice is leave well enough alone as it could go worse than you think if you tell her you used it correctly. You already know she is rude and arrogant, do you really need to see if she is good old fashioned mean as well?

Let it lie and forget about her. You don't owe her any apology or explanation.

Blatter

Print off evidence from the internet proving that your terminology was correct.

Then confront her at the start of class, show her the evidence and let her know that you did nothing wrong and you were made to feel bad and confused about the whole situation.

What she did was a stupid, thoughtless and uneducated thing and she should be brought up on the issue rather than it be ignored. If she is ignored, you will be the bigot and she will be right, in her eyes at least. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want anyone thinking that of me.

Morag

poozers wrote: »

The main reason i started the class was so i could read personal stuff out loud to strangers (which was said we had to do in the course description) and it was an effort to overcome my shyness!

Yup you have no issues.

It is a loaded word, it is one which is used repeatedly as a pejorative term.
May you never have to comfort a child and dry their after it has been used about them.

It is a hateful term, it is no longer used by educational and medical professionals. You research was flawed, you did cause offence.

I get that you didn't mean to but you have to take into consideration the other person, who prolly has a hard enough time with her kid and has managed to find something to do for herself, which gives her a break from it all.

I think talking to her and reaching an understanding and explaining would be a good thing for you both.

KiLLeR CoUCh

Look OP, you didn't mean to cause offence, if she's going to get so worked up over it it's her problem. I'd be of the mind of who cares if you even write something offensive in a story? I've read plenty of offensive stories, blogs, and there are a ton of novels out there with offensive characters in them. I doubt authors loose sleep at night over whether somebody might take offence needlessly.

Don't bother confronting the woman, just leave it. You haven't described her as a nice person so why would you bother making amends? Shrug it off. You joined the class to learn how to read aloud to other people well this is just part of it. Not everybody will like what you right. Just remember it for the future if you're writing anything that might hit a nerve.

Don't feel bad OP, you didn't mean it in a bad way and that's what matters. I do find it odd that you weren't already familiar with the term you were using, and the woman who has a special needs child probably wouldn't even believe you didn't know. As far as she knew, you knew exactly what you were saying. I don't think it's worth it to confront her. Talk to her about it, explain you didn't know, that you had looked on the internet and that's the word it gave you. But don't confront her with proof that it can be used in a medical sense. That's being a bit too confrontational, and slightly aggressive. I know you're harbouring a bit of bitterness about being showed up and publicly having your meaning attacked, but just let it go. Trying to prove you're right is irrelevant really. She'll just feel offended and you'll just feel bad all over again.

It is most definitely not the same as calling someone a f****t. Not at all. It is similar however to the word spastic. Spasticity is a medical term describing the rapid uncontrollable contraction of muscle. It's seen in many conditions, including spastic diplegia, a form of cerebral palsy. However people often use is in an offensive way, sometimes shortening it to spa. Makes me cringe when people use these words, I think about how offensive someone affected by such syndromes would find it, how hurtful they are. Truth is, even the people who use in an offensive way don't realise how offensive it is. Often I hear friends say "ah you spa" or "that's so retarded", and even though it makes me cringe (and slightly angry) I know that they don't think about the fact that these are real things that real people have to deal with. To them it's just a word, and they'd never use it to a person actually affected by it. The fact that you used it meaning in a medical way is far more forgivable, as you had no idea it even could be offensive. Just know for future reference, and stay well clear of Ms Bitchy.

seamus

Sharrow wrote: »

I think talking to her and reaching an understanding and explaining would be a good thing for you both.

With all due respect I disagree. The woman is clearly an obnoxious and self-righteous cow who won't see reason. If anything the OP should take the woman aside at the start of the next class and tell the woman that what she did was very hurtful and disrespectful and ask for an apology.

If she was a reasonable person, she wouldn't have tried to make a scene in front of a class, especially in a class of amateurs where its understood that people are new to showing their own work to others and are understandably sensitive. Any respectful person would have spoken to the OP at the end of the class and explained what their issue was. That she has a special needs child is irrelevant, it's no excuse for rudeness and disrespect.

OP, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Your confidence is knocked but you can be sure that everyone else in the class feels the same about this woman. They would have felt sympathy for you when you were humiliated in public, not disgust. They will have even more respect for you if you stand up there next week with your self-respect intact and not let this woman get to you.

Creative writing isn't about being PC, otherwise you would be unable to be creative. It's also not about being perfect; everyone makes mistakes either in the words they use or the tone they use and nobody deserves to have someone else disrespect them and attempt to humiliate them in public for a simple and common misunderstanding.

reprazant

Sharrow wrote: »

Creative writing classes are not the place to deal with personal issues, go see a therapist or a counsellor.

Yes it is an offensive term guess you didn't find this site in your research into foetal alcohol syndrome.

http://therword.org/

Would you have refereed to a gay person as a fagg0t in your piece?

I suggest you do go back, that you go early and have a word with the facilitator and that you try and talk to the lady and stop being so judgemental.

But really a writing course/class is not the place for airing your issues.

Retarded is a medical term and used correctly, is a fine word to use.

I like how you tell the OP to stop being judgemental in, what seems to me anyway, a highly judgemental fashion.

elbee

OP, you didn't mean any offence and you seem to be sorry that you may have caused some unintentionally. I'd let it go.

This woman is a stranger to you. Her opinion of you doesn't matter, and since you never particularly liked her, it shouldn't hurt you. Easier said than done of course! I'd let it go.

From the sound of her, I bet if you apologised and explained and said 'I'd rather you had said it to me privately' she would probably construe that as you being ashamed of yourself.

Sometimes we all put our feet in our mouths (I did it yesterday and still feel bad about it!) but if your intentions were good the best thing you can do it let it go.

stiffler123

I wouldn't worry about it too much OP, it was an honest mistake and you meant no malice in saying it. Next writing class, I would take the lady aside at the end and apologize, explain to her that you are embarassed about what happened, you had no idea it was offensive and please accept your sincere apology. If she doesn't shake your hand after that, then you tried your best and that's all you can do.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

common sense brigade

writers should be able to use unpolitically correct words like retard ****** etc anything they want. that is the nature of writing. anything else is censorship. do you think charles bukowski and william burroughs would have minded what people thought about what they wrote. dont worry she is hyper sensitive.

spinandscribble

I worked with people with a range of problems and many were diagnosed as mentally retarded. It was the common word to be used and they were not offended by the word either as it was used when needed and correctly without malice. Now if someone was to go up and call them a retard, yes there would be problems but the term mentally retarded is NOT offensive and the only reason some may be offended is because the term has been shorted to a insult.

OP, you're gonna find people like this all the time, stand firm on using the correct terms if you so wish and you you might find yourself using actually offensive terms in your writing and thats ok. If that women can't handle that maybe the class isn't for her.

Do not apologies and do not edit your writing to suit her. If you continue that story and use the word mentally retarded as a side note clarify with the course teacher that yes it is the correct medical term and you'd be glad if you had his/her support in backing you up if this women gets ott again.

LegacyUser

OK, going against the grain with this one but you did ask were you being too sensitive and the answer is yes, you absolutely were, and it has to be asked: is this sort of incident really all it takes to leave a person mortified, wanting to crawl into a hole, terrified as you were?

Since when did people become so needy? You had an exchange of words with someone you obviously had a pre existing problem with, she got the better of you (in your mind) in the sense that you had no comeback to her final comment, and you are now obsessing over nothing with people looking up medical dictionaries and websites and quoting technical definitions for you to use next week if you do challenge this woman.

Do you really believe this is how issues are resolved between people in the real world? Something is said, one person broods for a week and dreams of triumphing on the next encounter with the use of unassailable logic, leaving the original wrongdoer humiliated and mortified – preferably all witnessed by the same people who witnessed the hero's original humiliation in the first incident. Plenty of soap opera storylines go this way alright but its more likely in the real world everybody – the bad guy in the scenario, the witnesses – will all have forgotten the incident within 10 minutes of it happening. Everyone will have forgotten it except the victim character sitting around brooding for a week plotting revenge.

You are wasting energy on this and need to forget it. And by the way, you need to prepare yourself for further exchanges with people of this sort in the future, so either develop the confidence to confront and challenge people on the spot or else recognise this fault in yourself (over sensitivity) and develop a thicker skin.

In point of fact, if you could develop your confidence to the point of being able to confront people who deserve to be confronted, then you probably wouldnt be so easily offended by them in the first place.

IrishEyes19

Sharrow wrote: »

Yup you have no issues.

It is a loaded word, it is one which is used repeatedly as a pejorative term.
May you never have to comfort a child and dry their after it has been used about them.

It is a hateful term, it is no longer used by educational and medical professionals. You research was flawed, you did cause offence.

I get that you didn't mean to but you have to take into consideration the other person, who prolly has a hard enough time with her kid and has managed to find something to do for herself, which gives her a break from it all.

I think talking to her and reaching an understanding and explaining would be a good thing for you both.

Wrong, Sharow, retardation is also still used in the physcriatric profession also, often alligned with the word social to describe if someone acts out of normal behavioural norms.

Op, what you said wasnt incorrect, unfortunately the mother in question just took it wrongly.

poozers

seamus wrote: »

Creative writing isn't about being PC, otherwise you would be unable to be creative..

EXACTLY!!! thank you!! It's all about developing your style and thats what we're mainly encouraged to do in the class!

I was VERY upset (obviously) last night about it, Thanks a mill for all the support! I'm kind of over it, but it's more the principle of it now! but it's not what she thinks of me, it's mainly what our teacher and my classmates think of me, because I really respect them all and they are all extremely talented people!! Even this woman is very very talented! The rest in the class are older than me besides 2 others! but they are a great bunch!
Im inspired to work harder at my writing now... not to prove that im good to anyone else, only to myself! I am a sensitive person, but there's nothing wrong with that!!

"snapoutofit"
- "since when did people become so needy?" ????? "obsessing over nothing"???? Getting people to look up medical websites for me??? this is a public board!! a "personal issues" board! are you saying that the way i felt last night isn't worthy of a few replies from people just giving their opinion and trying to be helpful??? i wasnt "obsessing over nothing" because the incident wasnt "nothing" to me...maybe to you it might be, but thats you!
Also, i want to correct the situation maturely, for myself, i'm not "plotting revenge"!!! If I had contact with this woman outside of the class, i wouldnt wait a week to get revenge" as you say! yeah, i'm sensitive but im not "over sensitive", i can take criticism when it is given to me in a respectful and mature way, but not when i'm put to shame like that in front of a class of people i respect!

thanks again everyone for replying!

OP you didn't do anything wrong. You referred to a character who, as you said, becomes the hero of the piece. As others have said, she just wanted to get a rise out of you. I genuinely hate people like that and have no time for them.

Don't approach her and discuss it with her - if you do then she'll only see that it did get to you. Just carry on as normal.

KittyeeTrix

OP, my son has dyspraxia and this affects his co-ordination. He walks with a awkward relaxed gait ( a little bit like Ozzy Osbourne) and although he is of a high IQ his movements make him look "slow" for want of a better word.......

I would not take offence at someone in a writing class if they described a character such as my son as being slow as I'm not a bloody drama queen who expects people to know excactly the politically correct word for every disorder under the sun...............:(

Forget this woman, enjoy the rest of your creative writing experience and do not for one second think that you did anything wrong.

dellas1979

I am going to say Poozers that the best course of action is to talk to the teacher.

Noone is right in this situation. As far as I am concerned, the teacher was in the wrong. As they say there is no problem only how you look at it. You are looking at it from your side (innocent to the expression you used) and her from her side (having a special needs child).

The teacher is there for a reason and by all means should have said something when it all started. It is the teacher who controls the order of the class, by keeping personal things out of the equation.

Do not go near her with your own personal vendetta. That is what we call "putting fuel on the fire".

Maybe your teacher could mildly remind everyone in the class that it is creative writing, and personal issues should be kept at side.

LegacyUser

poozers wrote: »

"snapoutofit"
- "since when did people become so needy?" ????? "obsessing over nothing"???? Getting people to look up medical websites for me??? this is a public board!! a "personal issues" board! are you saying that the way i felt last night isn't worthy of a few replies from people just giving their opinion and trying to be helpful??? i wasnt "obsessing over nothing" because the incident wasnt "nothing" to me...maybe to you it might be, but thats you!
Also, i want to correct the situation maturely, for myself, i'm not "plotting revenge"!!! If I had contact with this woman outside of the class, i wouldnt wait a week to get revenge" as you say! yeah, i'm sensitive but im not "over sensitive", i can take criticism when it is given to me in a respectful and mature way, but not when i'm put to shame like that in front of a class of people i respect!

People mollycoddling you and agreeing with you about the big bad woman who was so mean to you and egging you on and quoting to you from medical reference books on the precise meaning of the term "retarded" for you to repeat verbatim are not helping you in my opinion.

You say you can take criticism so long as its given to you in a respectful and mature way - but who decides that? You? And in any case, if you cant deal with more direct criticism then how are you going to deal with the daily grind of modern life where people have to eat sh*t all the time with a stiff upper lip? You are mid 20s now - do you really believe its possible to cruise through hopefully another 60 years + without having to deal with conflict?

Just get real, finish the final week of the course, forget the whole incident and work on developing a coping mechanism for the next time you have a public run in with someone.

Humria

Mental retardation is the technical term used in the US, in the UK and Ireland the term used (within psychology anyway) is usually learning disability. I think that's where the confusion may arise.

I wouldn't feel bad OP. I don't think there is much point in confronting her though as it would just cause more friction. The only reason to explain or apologise is if you care about her opinion.

LegacyUser

Wouldn't be too bothered by it, just leave it go and forget about it.

IMO, most adjectives can be be made insulting, it depends on the context and the tone you say it.

You could easily turn to a regular person and go "you are such a special needs child" and even though you are using the PC term for it, it is obviously meant to offend .

If you described the character as having a "mental retardation" I would say perfectly acceptable so long as you said it in an empathetic manner .

If you said the character is "a retard" , it's definitely a little un-pc.